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[Column] World of Warcraft: LFR and Drop Rates

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,649MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

The World of Warcraft forums have been abuzz since the release of the last patch that brought some significant changess to the drop rates with regard to daily quests. In The WoW Factor today, we take a look at some of the issues and offer an opinion or two. See what we've got to say and then join the discussion in the comments.

For those not up to speed on how item drops work on bosses in the LFRs it goes a little something like this: When your raid defeats a boss, the game randomly determines if a player will receive an item from that bosses loot table. This is checked completely under the hood, think of it as a dungeon master in D&D rolling a check behind a game screen and only sharing if it’s a pass or fail while not disclosing the actual numbers. If you’re lucky enough to win an item, the game then randomly chooses an item from the loot table relevant to your class specialization (this will change to any specialization of your current class as an option come patch 5.3) and drops it in your bag. Getting a piece of loot with this new system carries the same chance of an item dropping under the old system where anyone could roll on several items that a boss dropped. However, with this new system there is no drama over who should get what - you either win something or don’t, no discussion. 

Read more of Reza Lackey's The WoW Factor: LFR and Drop Rates.

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Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
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Comments

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways BangladeshPosts: 1,047Member Uncommon
    the idea behind LFR was that casual players who don't have too much time in hand to run regular raids could experience end game content. but guess what, it is not going on like that, hardcore raiding guilds are farming LFR to gear up for regular raids and not only that; people who are actually doing LFR are not at all "casual', one mistake as healer or tank and/or as dps someone who has the lowest gets kicked. i have run a couple of LFR and i have seen the "casual" mentatlity in there. i think LFR needs to go as it is not fulfilling it's purpose(bringing end game to casuals).

    i want an open world, no phasing, no instancing.i want meaningful owpvp.i want player driven economy.i want meaningful crafting.i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill.i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.i want all of these free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
    Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,784Member Uncommon
    The problem is an endgame built around raiding for gear.  Everything else is just details.  Any proposals to change it amount to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic:  the end result isn't going to change much.
  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Rohnert Park, CAPosts: 848Member
    Originally posted by jesteralways
    the idea behind LFR was that casual players who don't have too much time in hand to run regular raids could experience end game content. but guess what, it is not going on like that, hardcore raiding guilds are farming LFR to gear up for regular raids and not only that; people who are actually doing LFR are not at all "casual', one mistake as healer or tank and/or as dps someone who has the lowest gets kicked. i have run a couple of LFR and i have seen the "casual" mentatlity in there. i think LFR needs to go as it is not fulfilling it's purpose(bringing end game to casuals).

     

    I have not once seen anyone kicked due to performance in LFR and I have done over 100 LFR runs accross multiple characters. I think you may have had some bad luck. Perhaps you got stuck with a "mostly" guild run of some kind?

     

    The only time I've seen the raid kick someone is if they 1) afk; 2) get disconnected for more than a short while; 3) Q as tank or healer for faster Q but not geared/speced for their role.

     

  • BattlerockBattlerock Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,393Member
    As a healer, im really enjoying the rf difficulty and the fact that peeps are getting booted for sucking. Im a healer though so this increased wiping has made for some epic game saving moments for me. Save the tanks from death, take a peak at the healing charts, and realize how awesome I am, maybe lwt a couple noobs die. Talk some smack righf before they get kicked, laugh it off, whats that? My phones ringing, answers call ( entire raid wipes ) someone other than me gets kicked , ten minutes later I come back over our group is almost ready to go again after the chaos. I say something inspirational like come guys we e can gwt this now. We defeat the boss, I get 27 gold, half the raid leaves, another group of noobs reloads our raid and we do it again
  • PanzerbasePanzerbase Chicago, ILPosts: 423Member
    It's always nice to know the boss checks to see who is coming to his death and packs his backpack accordingly. 
  • KareliaKarelia HeraklionPosts: 668Member
    after playing wow almost since start, i think this loot system is the best so far. i hope it continues as it is or just make a bit lower the lesser charms needed (down from 90). thats all.
  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon

    LFR should be mostly for PLAYING the content, not GEARING. When did it go from 'experiencing' content to gearing for it? 

    Either way just heavy emphasis that raiding (at least in wow) is dead. Good bye progression and feeling sof achievement, hello making everything so easy a caveman could do it (couldn't resist!).

     

    When will people realize that difficulty and the work done to achieve a kill is what made raiding so rewarding in the past? There was less content but we were so much more to occupy ourselves with attempting to progress and get to new places beating something and feeling such a great sense of accomplishment.  I'm not saying we have to lose content, we can have more things to do but why take away such a great feeling of making progress? In part its even diminishing the effect of a guild to even really bother forming up, weakening the community.

     

    When will it be realized by being spoiled brats and having everything given to us that its actually ruining our sense of enjoyment?

     
  • sketocafesketocafe StoupaPosts: 804Member Uncommon
    RNG's gonna RNG. If someone isn't getting what they want out of lfr's, they'd do better working on their karma instead of trying to get the system dumbed down even further.
  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Rohnert Park, CAPosts: 848Member
    Originally posted by sketocafe
    RNG's gonna RNG. If someone isn't getting what they want out of lfr's, they'd do better working on their karma instead of trying to get the system dumbed down even further.

     

    I thought the drops had more to do with...this:

     

    http://www.darklegacycomics.com/375.html

  • StevonStevon Rancho Cucamonga, CAPosts: 190Member

    Dailies suck.  I have one job, I don't need another.   I've quit WoW just because of this.

     

    You don't need dailies to keep players playing for end game progression.   The tiered dungeon approach should be fine.  The only appeal WoW has right now is comparative, there's still no other game that does a good job of providing gear based progression play.   There are lots of other MMOs that offer good "play" but not the same type.   So Blizzard can do things like force dailies down your throats in order to hold on to subs.  

     

    It's not about enjoyment anymore it's about finding ways to force retention by penalizing you if you unsubscribe.

  • barasawabarasawa Eugene, ORPosts: 274Member Uncommon

    The LFR kicks I've seen have been for people DC'd or AFK for more than 5 minutes, Healers that won't heal, a few tanks that won't tank, and several times for some QQ scum whining that we should kick the low DPS pcs. 

     

    Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...

  • ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon
    They need more for raiders to do.  My character has literally nothing to do besides heroic raids, and i only raid 6-8 hours a week. Therefore when I can't raid theres zero reason to log on because alt grinds are pointless.  Good thing darkfall 2.0 just came out though. 

    Played-Everything
    Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  • theniffrigtheniffrig DublinPosts: 351Member
    Some players just want a small 8ft X 8ft room with a big chest that has guaranteed loot. No need to fight bosses, no need to spend time playing the game, just give them the carrots instantly & for zero effort.
  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    Reverse the flow.  Remove the boss fight from the bonus rolls.  Have bosses simply provide another source of lesser charms.  Replace elder charms with a direct loot bag (or for keys to a bonus instance like the Troves of the Thunder King).

     

     

  • Heretic451Heretic451 Santa Rosa, CAPosts: 69Member

    I was interested in reading this, but RNGs and LFRs? In the first sentence? Without spelling out what they are? WTF?

    I suppose I'm not elite enough to read your article, being a noob, newb, or whatever. But this is one of the most basic priciples of writing an article to widen the scope of people who might give a crap.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member
    Originally posted by theniffrig
    Some players just want a small 8ft X 8ft room with a big chest that has guaranteed loot. No need to fight bosses, no need to spend time playing the game, just give them the carrots instantly & for zero effort.

    You remind me of a person running down the beach with surfboard in hand, kicking sand in everyone's face for just laying there enjoying the sun and sounds of the ocean.  You're kind of missing the point of why they are there to begin with.

    (well, that's not entirely fair of me to say because if you leave playstyles out of it, there is a fair amount of knee-jerk metagaming that does happen where people try to increase their drop rates by lobbying the devs as if player feedback was just another system in the game rather than stepping out of the game and asking what sorts of obstacles they'd like the game to populated with)

  • mysticalspammysticalspam prairieville, LAPosts: 64Member
    LFR sux... pretty much every one i been in if you win a piece of gear you get  kicked by the people  that lost the roll...

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  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Rohnert Park, CAPosts: 848Member
    Originally posted by mysticalspam
    LFR sux... pretty much every one i been in if you win a piece of gear you get  kicked by the people  that lost the roll...

     

    Nobody knows who won unless you link your item in raid chat.

  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,355Member Uncommon

    heres the thing to people complaining that people want gear with no effort , this is mostly untruel and you have no basis to even say so. People can do 1 raid a week and roll on loot drops from bosses. There are currently 8 or 9 raids you can do raid finder with and each take a hour or more to complete and you have to worry about wipes and derp dps or tanks messing up encounters. So if you do not win a thing or just a piece or two in an enitre week , you are locked out from even rolling on anything until the following week and this leads to people feeling like random rolls system is crap and you cant blame them. Also any decent raid guild isnt going to be carrying people under a gear score of 490-500 for regular raiding , so you have kinda no choice until next patch but to run the welfare epics lfr finder if you want to continue your progression. 5.3 changes that with improving the raid system bonus rolls but im pretty sure this is not going to fix the issue. Also what isnt mentioned is the new scanarios that are heroic , you get better bags than normal heroics and scanarios which contain 476 versions of the items which is the first tier of raids in raid finder gear wise.

    edit- also worth mentioning is the upgrade system is back and you can upgrade your gear with valor points up to 8 item levels , same with justice points gear as well for entering raid finder.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,481Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    The problem is an endgame built around raiding for gear.  Everything else is just details.  Any proposals to change it amount to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic:  the end result isn't going to change much.

     If endgame raid gear is part of the endgame raiding progression, why does a non-raider need it?

  • AvsRock21AvsRock21 Denver, COPosts: 256Member
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    The problem is an endgame built around raiding for gear.  Everything else is just details.  Any proposals to change it amount to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic:  the end result isn't going to change much.

    Wrong. People play WoW because it is a gear based game. There is actually something to work for while you play and enjoy the game. This is why GW2 failed, there was nothing to work for. Looking at WoW's steady population, it's easy to tell that people like playing for gear. This new system they implemented fixes more problems than it creates. I recently came back to WoW, albeit somewhat hesitantly. GW2 was a huge disappointment and EVE, while awesome, wasn't scratching a recent rpg itch. I can say that WoW is still fun as hell. And if you embrace the changes made to the game, you can find positives in everything. I've even warmed up to the new talent system and how it has dealt with cookie cutter specs very nicely. 

  • kanezfankanezfan margate, FLPosts: 482Member
    This isn't related to the actual content of the article, but you are mixing up your possessive and plural form too much, for example "spending several hours completing daily quests for Rune’s of Fate..."  A small gripe but whoever is proofreading these articles needs to do a better job.
  • causscauss sonnegaPosts: 668Member
    To be honest, I really enjoy the system. Yeah I don't always get loot (actually, I mostly get money, no gear) but I don't mind. I guess I just enjoy Pandaria a lot. All my friends play again and we're just having lots of fun. You tend to look over certain issues way easier.
  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Somewhere in nowherePosts: 2,328Member Uncommon

    I was going to write a retrospect on WoW from the viewpoint of a returning vanilla (up to WotLK) player, yes I know there are plenty of those.

    But I will say: the LFR system has reinforced my hatred of RNG loot systems even more. Though I like it as an "easymode" introduction to raids.

     

    I do agree with Blizzard's decision not to implement Need / Greed rolls on these raids. The amount of ninjas who ninja just to spite others is already spiralling out of control in regular instances. No need for that crap in LFR.

    However, the system just doesn't give any control to the player at all. And that's what bugs me.

    For example: you go to LFR and this one week you get nothing but new shoulders. You think: "Well, at least I got these nice shoulders, I actually needed a weapon, but I'm happy I got these."

    Then the next week, you go at it again and get nothing, except for... Guess what? SHOULDERS, of similar quality, off of another boss or even the same one. It's frustrating. That story was what happened to me btw.

    As for the bonus rolls, I've now spent over 20 bonus rolls and have never once gotten anything but gold out of them. I also DETEST dailies with a fury that burns brighter than the sun, so yeah.

     

    The solution for me is simple: remove any manner of RNG from LFR.

    Just implement a new currency for each tier of LFR. Every boss gives an amount of this currency when the first kill of the week occurs and completing the instance for the first time gives some extra. WoW already has a great number of currencies, one more won't hurt.

    You can then take this currency to a vendor who offers you the choice to pick from the entire loot table of the instance according to your needs. So you can then save up for that weapon without receiving duplicate items that you do not need.

    Bonus rolls would stay the same, but would offer a significant chance to receive extra currency. Together with a smaller chance to recieve items.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,481Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

    I was going to write a retrospect on WoW from the viewpoint of a returning vanilla (up to WotLK) player, yes I know there are plenty of those.

    But I will say: the LFR system has reinforced my hatred of RNG loot systems even more. Though I like it as an "easymode" introduction to raids.

     

    I do agree with Blizzard's decision not to implement Need / Greed rolls on these raids. The amount of ninjas who ninja just to spite others is already spiralling out of control in regular instances. No need for that crap in LFR.

    However, the system just doesn't give any control to the player at all. And that's what bugs me.

    For example: you go to LFR and this one week you get nothing but new shoulders. You think: "Well, at least I got these nice shoulders, I actually needed a weapon, but I'm happy I got these."

    Then the next week, you go at it again and get nothing, except for... Guess what? SHOULDERS, of similar quality, off of another boss or even the same one. It's frustrating. That story was what happened to me btw.

    As for the bonus rolls, I've now spent over 20 bonus rolls and have never once gotten anything but gold out of them. I also DETEST dailies with a fury that burns brighter than the sun, so yeah.

     

    The solution for me is simple: remove any manner of RNG from LFR.

    Just implement a new currency for each tier of LFR. Every boss gives an amount of this currency when the first kill of the week occurs and completing the instance for the first time gives some extra. WoW already has a great number of currencies, one more won't hurt.

    You can then take this currency to a vendor who offers you the choice to pick from the entire loot table of the instance according to your needs. So you can then save up for that weapon without receiving duplicate items that you do not need.

    Bonus rolls would stay the same, but would offer a significant chance to receive extra currency. Together with a smaller chance to recieve items.

     I see your entitled view.  I believe RNG is good becauses it makes people repeat the content.  Running it once and getting all the gear you need is a undesireable design.  Then again I am old compared to the kids today.

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