You didn't find anything on the topic because there is nothing. From what we can read Carbine simply doesn't know yet as they focus on the developement before focusing on the marketing + sales.
Originally posted by Thupli
Nothing official yet.
With it being NCSoft, I am hopeful they will go with a GW2 model of B2P with a cosmetic/vanity cash shop. I think there is a good chance of that.
I'm not sure, I still feel safer on the sub side regarding future content, patches and quality overall.
You didn't find anything on the topic because there is nothing. From what we can read Carbine simply doesn't know yet as they focus on the developement before focusing on the marketing + sales.
Originally posted by Thupli
Nothing official yet.
With it being NCSoft, I am hopeful they will go with a GW2 model of B2P with a cosmetic/vanity cash shop. I think there is a good chance of that.
I'm not sure, I still feel safer on the sub side regarding future content, patches and quality overall.
GW2 is a prime example of how an mmo can be of the highest quality in every aspect without the sub model.
You didn't find anything on the topic because there is nothing. From what we can read Carbine simply doesn't know yet as they focus on the developement before focusing on the marketing + sales.
Originally posted by Thupli
Nothing official yet.
With it being NCSoft, I am hopeful they will go with a GW2 model of B2P with a cosmetic/vanity cash shop. I think there is a good chance of that.
I'm not sure, I still feel safer on the sub side regarding future content, patches and quality overall.
GW2 is a prime example of how an mmo can be of the highest quality in every aspect without the sub model.
Yet from all mmo's I gave a real chance I played GW2 for the least time and had the least fun.
Yet from all mmo's I gave a real chance I played GW2 for the least time and had the least fun.
I understand your feelings, but at the same time, sub/payment methods do not correlate to gameplay or enjoyment. They are totally unrelated.
Not totally unrelated. If you as dev know you will have that steady income from subs you can plan ahead. All I'm saying is that I generally trust mmo's with subs more long term than I do f2p and b2p.
My personal guess from what they have said and speculations is that they will go sub based, but somehow you will probably be able to buy/get gametime for ingame currency or somehow via microtransaction.
It will be b2p or p2p tho, confirmed that its not f2p.
Originally posted by wormed Would prefer sub based model. Generally weeds out the morons and produces a better community.
Disagree here, but I do understand your concern. IMO, the GW2 community is pretty good. However, there are jerks in any game, regardless of payment method.
One thought that I have is that these days, devs have to work very, VERY hard to keep gamers that are saturated playing and paying for a sub based game. From personal anecdote, I got to a point in wow where it was too much of the same, and when I weighed that against the sub when I wasn't playing X hours per day, I simply dropped it.
The problem is that wow has saturated most people so that they typically stick with games for maybe 5 to 6 months then drop it. If you have a sub based model you are risking the sub v saturation point break. While I think that Wildstar is in many ways a WoW 2.0 or spiritual successor, I am not convinced that people coming from wow or other games wont burn out when they feel they have a timer ticking vs GW2 model which I absolutely loving picking up on a semi daily basis.
indeed it is a silly old justification, as to why subs is a good thing for the consumer...and that list is long
even if I dont mind paying a sub by now, Id prefer not to, if the game doesnt turn into a constant reminder that you should shop....which used to be my justification, but now sub based MMOs have shops as well
Well, I do hear what he is saying though, but I dont think it applies to B2P like it does fully F2P.
What he is hitting on is the F2P titles that kiddies can download for free. There is no barrier for entry for the 13-19 year olds that are more immature. The B2P at least makes somebody drop $60 on the box, which is a big deterrent for many of those F2P'ers that are just there to get what they can for free.
Of course, as has been pointed out, plenty of jerks in sub based games as well. But I do think that he is hitting on something, though.
WildStar is looking absolutely fantastic. I wouldn't mind paying for a subscription, though I understand the pros and cons.
To me, WildStar is catering to two audiences: casual and hardcore. The casual audience loves the graphics, love customizing their houses, easy PvE, social fun, etc. whereas the hardcore audience like depth for the end game (and possibly many of the things casual users like too).
Since there are two audiences, perhaps their should be options that work best for each audience. If you are a casual gamer who just wants to jump on to water plants and look for new seeds to cross pollinate, there should be a limited feature set with a buy-to-play setup. Let's say buy-to-play people can level up to 30, which is the end-game for non-subscribers. This end game would have many fun features that the casual audience would enjoy.
The hardcore audience could have a pay-to-play setup that raises the level cap, events, and features that hardcore players will like more.
What would even be better is to provide roles for the buy-to-play audience that recreates the roles of many NPCs. Essentially build a game for the casual players that benefits the hardcore players: building and managing a store, buy/sell/trading items for your store properties in different towns, compete commercially with other casual players, manage a farm or industry that produces goods for stores, create quests for materials/items needed for stores or for upgrading farms/industry buildings, hiring players to defend properties for X amount of time which provides a win-win for each player (boost in production, boost in experience/gold), etc. You can build the game for one audience that improves the game for the other audience by replacing NPCs with real people doing things that are fun for them and keeping them in the game with either a free-to-play setup or a buy-to-play setup. A real world economy without a global auction house, would be neat.
Hard to say as you will have to have a good feel of the game before you know how it will do in the market. I'm not even sure of the overall health of the market as is, or how the inevitable increase of multiplayer and social games with the future consoles (which will blur the line between MMO and MO) will change the mindsets of players (though I assume many of the P2P club will start questioning it's validity). In the MMORPG video about crafting they went into depth about payment models, thinking of the pros and cons of the payment models. F2P seems to be out the window, though B2P and P2P seem like possible candidates still.
Though many are tired of paying monthly for their games when there are better options out there. In fact, the difference is greater than I predicted six months ago between payment models. Add to that, that the "newblood" of MMO players will pretty much only tolerate B2P models (as they're from the console market and don't like "renting" their games) and you could see the future fold out before you. We pretty much peaked in terms of the amount of players available and ready to partake in these plans as MMOs are now. That is not to say that we've peaked in creativity or potential, it's just that time is running out on MMOs being exclusively "massive" (in terms of players online) as new technologies and connections are being established on the market.
It would be safe to assume any gamer that would come over hasn't because of it either being a computer exclusive genre (something new consoles will likely help fix) or the fact that many think us fools for basically buying access to the same game we purchased a box for month after month. In that, I may actually concur whole heartedly with their assessment, as I have spent about $3,500 on WoW alone what with about $1600 just from monthly fees from a single account (with me having multiple accounts, having to buy boxes and expansions for each, and paying for my girlfriend's). It's a harsh reminder for me never to play another P2P game again, and especially painful that all that time was wasted as I don't have access to the game I paid $3,500 for and the characters I spent my time working on.
To this day I only play P2P games if they offer a lifesub (money isn't an issue, but morality on the grounds of having to rent a game are; I no longer believe the rhetoric that it's all for bandwidth costs and box/shops cover staff and future content in spades if they have a competent plan) and other than that I only play B2P games and give F2P games their fair shot as well. I'm uncertain of their thought process, but if they intend to go P2P and then plan to go B2P or F2P down the road I'll lose respect for them. Sometimes it's needed to save a game, but actually planning to do that rifles my feathers as they try to suck as much out of players before going on a new marketing campaign to sell boxes and then get more out of the same players (and new) through cash shops (which I love personally in B2P/F2P games if implemented correctly as you support a game, sitll have access to the game you bought, and get a little something for the extra money you spend).
They have the facts and figures, and a business doesn't usually operate on moral grounds. I just hope they don't go the way of nearly every P2P game that has come out the past decade or so; there is no perfect game, and the small P2P community is further splintered by the fact everyone likes different things. When you think about it, it makes sense why Mr. Jacobs keeps on saying he wants a niche game and a niche community; all P2P games that were released in the past year "failed" (most will say a game failed if they go F2P or B2P after launch, so that's another thing to plan for if they go the underhanded route and plan the change) and only a niche game with a super cult like following will be able to survive the next generation under the P2P model (unless MMOs drastically change what they are to something consoles can't replicate).
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
With a game focused on endgame it does not make much sense to go F2P. The Focus of F2P games and F2P content is to get short term players to spend money before they quit the game. Endgame is something F2P players don't generally do. With the focus on endgame Carbine is sending a message they want long term subscription veteran type players. But Carbine has also said they might do soem cash shop items for fluff items like some housing items.
Which makes one think the may go with a hybrid model of subscription for the long term subs and B2P for the short term players who do not have the patience to play a MMO very long and for the unltra casual players. Such a system would mean some resources would have to be shifted from endgame content to make content to seperate the short term players from ther parents money. But Carbine already has said they plan to provide content for all playstyles and they do appear to have a very broad amount of content they intend to include at release. A hybrid model while distatefull to many vteran MMO players may not be terrible and it may mean more money for Carbine along more resources to make content for real players.
With a game focused on endgame it does not make much sense to go F2P. The Focus of F2P games and F2P content is to get short term players to spend money before they quit the game. Endgame is something F2P players don't generally do.
My question has been answered so why are you replying with massive general misconceptions about a market you clearly know nothing about? Any that knows anything about F2P games knows you are wrong so there is no point in you trying to fool anyone.
Oh wait, do you think that F2P games like Atlantica Online, Runes of Magic and so many others have been around for 4+ years based on a continual supply of new players and no end game?!?
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Comments
Nothing official yet.
With it being NCSoft, I am hopeful they will go with a GW2 model of B2P with a cosmetic/vanity cash shop. I think there is a good chance of that.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
You didn't find anything on the topic because there is nothing. From what we can read Carbine simply doesn't know yet as they focus on the developement before focusing on the marketing + sales.
I'm not sure, I still feel safer on the sub side regarding future content, patches and quality overall.
GW2 is a prime example of how an mmo can be of the highest quality in every aspect without the sub model.
Yet from all mmo's I gave a real chance I played GW2 for the least time and had the least fun.
I understand your feelings, but at the same time, sub/payment methods do not correlate to gameplay or enjoyment. They are totally unrelated.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Not totally unrelated. If you as dev know you will have that steady income from subs you can plan ahead. All I'm saying is that I generally trust mmo's with subs more long term than I do f2p and b2p.
Which had nothing to do with the pay model at all.
Anyway, thanks everyone for the info.
My personal guess from what they have said and speculations is that they will go sub based, but somehow you will probably be able to buy/get gametime for ingame currency or somehow via microtransaction.
It will be b2p or p2p tho, confirmed that its not f2p.
Disagree here, but I do understand your concern. IMO, the GW2 community is pretty good. However, there are jerks in any game, regardless of payment method.
One thought that I have is that these days, devs have to work very, VERY hard to keep gamers that are saturated playing and paying for a sub based game. From personal anecdote, I got to a point in wow where it was too much of the same, and when I weighed that against the sub when I wasn't playing X hours per day, I simply dropped it.
The problem is that wow has saturated most people so that they typically stick with games for maybe 5 to 6 months then drop it. If you have a sub based model you are risking the sub v saturation point break. While I think that Wildstar is in many ways a WoW 2.0 or spiritual successor, I am not convinced that people coming from wow or other games wont burn out when they feel they have a timer ticking vs GW2 model which I absolutely loving picking up on a semi daily basis.
Just my 2 cents.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
yea, like DF, MO, WoW, EVE, TSw, TERA, sWTOR, RIFT, shadowbane, etc...
lol.
indeed it is a silly old justification, as to why subs is a good thing for the consumer...and that list is long
even if I dont mind paying a sub by now, Id prefer not to, if the game doesnt turn into a constant reminder that you should shop....which used to be my justification, but now sub based MMOs have shops as well
Well, I do hear what he is saying though, but I dont think it applies to B2P like it does fully F2P.
What he is hitting on is the F2P titles that kiddies can download for free. There is no barrier for entry for the 13-19 year olds that are more immature. The B2P at least makes somebody drop $60 on the box, which is a big deterrent for many of those F2P'ers that are just there to get what they can for free.
Of course, as has been pointed out, plenty of jerks in sub based games as well. But I do think that he is hitting on something, though.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
WildStar is looking absolutely fantastic. I wouldn't mind paying for a subscription, though I understand the pros and cons.
To me, WildStar is catering to two audiences: casual and hardcore. The casual audience loves the graphics, love customizing their houses, easy PvE, social fun, etc. whereas the hardcore audience like depth for the end game (and possibly many of the things casual users like too).
Since there are two audiences, perhaps their should be options that work best for each audience. If you are a casual gamer who just wants to jump on to water plants and look for new seeds to cross pollinate, there should be a limited feature set with a buy-to-play setup. Let's say buy-to-play people can level up to 30, which is the end-game for non-subscribers. This end game would have many fun features that the casual audience would enjoy.
The hardcore audience could have a pay-to-play setup that raises the level cap, events, and features that hardcore players will like more.
What would even be better is to provide roles for the buy-to-play audience that recreates the roles of many NPCs. Essentially build a game for the casual players that benefits the hardcore players: building and managing a store, buy/sell/trading items for your store properties in different towns, compete commercially with other casual players, manage a farm or industry that produces goods for stores, create quests for materials/items needed for stores or for upgrading farms/industry buildings, hiring players to defend properties for X amount of time which provides a win-win for each player (boost in production, boost in experience/gold), etc. You can build the game for one audience that improves the game for the other audience by replacing NPCs with real people doing things that are fun for them and keeping them in the game with either a free-to-play setup or a buy-to-play setup. A real world economy without a global auction house, would be neat.
Just thoughts.
I think that you get the point though.
Neither jerks nor morons are affected by subscription vs f2p vs b2p models.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Hard to say as you will have to have a good feel of the game before you know how it will do in the market. I'm not even sure of the overall health of the market as is, or how the inevitable increase of multiplayer and social games with the future consoles (which will blur the line between MMO and MO) will change the mindsets of players (though I assume many of the P2P club will start questioning it's validity). In the MMORPG video about crafting they went into depth about payment models, thinking of the pros and cons of the payment models. F2P seems to be out the window, though B2P and P2P seem like possible candidates still.
Though many are tired of paying monthly for their games when there are better options out there. In fact, the difference is greater than I predicted six months ago between payment models. Add to that, that the "newblood" of MMO players will pretty much only tolerate B2P models (as they're from the console market and don't like "renting" their games) and you could see the future fold out before you. We pretty much peaked in terms of the amount of players available and ready to partake in these plans as MMOs are now. That is not to say that we've peaked in creativity or potential, it's just that time is running out on MMOs being exclusively "massive" (in terms of players online) as new technologies and connections are being established on the market.
It would be safe to assume any gamer that would come over hasn't because of it either being a computer exclusive genre (something new consoles will likely help fix) or the fact that many think us fools for basically buying access to the same game we purchased a box for month after month. In that, I may actually concur whole heartedly with their assessment, as I have spent about $3,500 on WoW alone what with about $1600 just from monthly fees from a single account (with me having multiple accounts, having to buy boxes and expansions for each, and paying for my girlfriend's). It's a harsh reminder for me never to play another P2P game again, and especially painful that all that time was wasted as I don't have access to the game I paid $3,500 for and the characters I spent my time working on.
To this day I only play P2P games if they offer a lifesub (money isn't an issue, but morality on the grounds of having to rent a game are; I no longer believe the rhetoric that it's all for bandwidth costs and box/shops cover staff and future content in spades if they have a competent plan) and other than that I only play B2P games and give F2P games their fair shot as well. I'm uncertain of their thought process, but if they intend to go P2P and then plan to go B2P or F2P down the road I'll lose respect for them. Sometimes it's needed to save a game, but actually planning to do that rifles my feathers as they try to suck as much out of players before going on a new marketing campaign to sell boxes and then get more out of the same players (and new) through cash shops (which I love personally in B2P/F2P games if implemented correctly as you support a game, sitll have access to the game you bought, and get a little something for the extra money you spend).
They have the facts and figures, and a business doesn't usually operate on moral grounds. I just hope they don't go the way of nearly every P2P game that has come out the past decade or so; there is no perfect game, and the small P2P community is further splintered by the fact everyone likes different things. When you think about it, it makes sense why Mr. Jacobs keeps on saying he wants a niche game and a niche community; all P2P games that were released in the past year "failed" (most will say a game failed if they go F2P or B2P after launch, so that's another thing to plan for if they go the underhanded route and plan the change) and only a niche game with a super cult like following will be able to survive the next generation under the P2P model (unless MMOs drastically change what they are to something consoles can't replicate).
With a game focused on endgame it does not make much sense to go F2P. The Focus of F2P games and F2P content is to get short term players to spend money before they quit the game. Endgame is something F2P players don't generally do. With the focus on endgame Carbine is sending a message they want long term subscription veteran type players. But Carbine has also said they might do soem cash shop items for fluff items like some housing items.
Which makes one think the may go with a hybrid model of subscription for the long term subs and B2P for the short term players who do not have the patience to play a MMO very long and for the unltra casual players. Such a system would mean some resources would have to be shifted from endgame content to make content to seperate the short term players from ther parents money. But Carbine already has said they plan to provide content for all playstyles and they do appear to have a very broad amount of content they intend to include at release. A hybrid model while distatefull to many vteran MMO players may not be terrible and it may mean more money for Carbine along more resources to make content for real players.
My question has been answered so why are you replying with massive general misconceptions about a market you clearly know nothing about? Any that knows anything about F2P games knows you are wrong so there is no point in you trying to fool anyone.
Oh wait, do you think that F2P games like Atlantica Online, Runes of Magic and so many others have been around for 4+ years based on a continual supply of new players and no end game?!?
Would prefer B2P. Looks promising.
No one knows, yet.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2