10 people are kicking the guy, guess I should too

wordiz

Originally posted by Eir_S

I don't agree with the mob mentality, but how can you be certain of anyone's motives?  Me, I watched a few gameplay videos.  Some were better than others, but I still think the ranged combat looks like garbage, irrespective of how good the player was.  There's no doubt in my mind that I'm going to give the game a try no matter what the internet has to say about it.  My main worry is that the developers are hoping to make their money back on name recognition alone, and then basically throw their hands in the air and say "Yeah it was mediocre, but we still got paid, thanks suckers".

I think it's a valid concern.

This is where you gotta judge them by their fruits. EA and Bioware had recent negative track records prior to the fail of SWTOR. Bethesda has, IMO, released nothing but quality games. One could expect the same from Zenimax because of this, or see them as the seperate entities they are and not know what to expect. Regardless of being seperate companies, Bethesda is still putting their rep on the line with this game, and I can't see them trying to piss off and/or betray their hordes of loyal players.

 

fantasyfreak112

Neverwinter is going to fail because it is nothing like D&D or Neverwinter. If TESO learns from this it will do well, otherwise it will make another entry in the MMO graveyard.

wordiz

Originally posted by Arglebargle

Originally posted by wordiz

If you don't follow the majority and have your own taste, that's good. Complaining about the mob mentality is pointless, they'll just mob on you harder.

I recently stopped giving a flying shit about what my friends are playing, or what the majority is playing... or what their thoughts on games are, it's pretty liberating to play what you want to play. If you think a game sucks, don't play it or support it financially, that speaks louder than anything you could ever post on here does.

There's a slew of new games coming out that deserve a try. Who cares who's playing what? The best thing about MMO's is you can always find another guild.

 

Great for the individual, but companies and developers building large, expensive games absolutely have to pay attention to what the larger audience thinks about paying for their game.   The developer's investment in the game  has to match the amount of money that will be coming in.  Misjudge that badly enough, and you will be out on the street. 

 

 

Naturally, that response was tailored for the individual. At the same time, if all gamers operated that way, support would flow towards the games they wanted to play regardless. The minority gets screwed by the industry in the end either way.

XxGrimmxX

If you are expecting TESO to be like any of the previous TES games that we've all enjoyed, you're going to have a bad time.

wordiz

Originally posted by XxGrimmxX
If you are expecting TESO to be like any of the previous TES games that we've all enjoyed, you're going to have a bad time.

As if Bethesda doesn't have another chapter in the series planned regardless of this game. This is why Zenimax is handling it.

I'm a long time fan of TES series since Daggerfall. I don't get why fans of the series, lore junkies and whatnot (like myself) act like this game is ending the series, or if we even have to honor the lore of TESO in regard to the rest of the series. We'll still have more amazing TES games, Fallout games etc. from Bethesda whether this game tanks or is the end all MMO.

Kyleran

The only thing I really hate is when other people tell me that I'm not allowed to disagree with them or dislike some game they favor. TESO probably isn't the title for me, and no I don't have to play it first to have that opinion.

XxGrimmxX

Originally posted by Kyleran
The only thing I really hate is when other people tell me that I'm not allowed to disagree with them or dislike some game they favor. TESO probably isn't the title for me, and no I don't have to play it first to have that opinion.

this

Drakynn

I think being overly aggressively positive about a game you have no practical experience of is jsut as bad as being overly aggressively negative.I personally have opinion on what I've read but have reserved judgement until I can get soem paly time with the game.

I am an old PC gamer so have been playing Elder Scroll since DOS and Arena....well ok DOS and Arena a year after release when it was actually playable.How the hell did Bethseda surivive the awful releases of the First 2 Elder Scroll games and to a lesser extent the third?Amazing.

That being said I only care if a game is fun to paly and holds my attention.If it does that I don't care if it's not exactly liek a single player ES game that has other players in it.

fantasyfreak112

Originally posted by wordiz

Originally posted by XxGrimmxX
If you are expecting TESO to be like any of the previous TES games that we've all enjoyed, you're going to have a bad time.

As if Bethesda doesn't have another chapter in the series planned regardless of this game. This is why Zenimax is handling it.

I'm a long time fan of TES series since Daggerfall. I don't get why fans of the series, lore junkies and whatnot (like myself) act like this game is ending the series, or if we even have to honor the lore of TESO in regard to the rest of the series. We'll still have more amazing TES games, Fallout games etc. from Bethesda whether this game tanks or is the end all MMO.

You don't get why people expect TES MMO to be like TES? Some people actually care if they waste money also.

Ayulin

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

I am one of many fans of ESO is who the target audience. Been playing TES games forever. I have played them to death. I am a HUGE TES fan. I will admit my fav PvP I have ever played was DAoC but this game has more then enough TES in it to make any fan happy if they would take time to look past the mob. 

Has it not occurred to you that perhaps those people did "look past the mob", didn't like what they saw, and came to their conclusions/opinions on their own?

Isn't it a bit presumptuous, dismissive and dishonest, to assume that anyone who doesn't share your view of the game just listened to the negativity of some "mob", and didn't research it themselves?

You can't just pack people, or their views, into neat little boxes to be tossed aside like that.

Ayulin

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

 

Obviously not, you are trying to say anyone that doesn't like the direction is simply following the hate mob. I however formed my opinion by watching the videos, reading the information, and getting some actual play time with the game. I've been a TES fan since daggerfall and no, TESO doesn't have enough TES in it to make me happy so your statement as much as you wish it were true is not. You will have to simply accept that. 

Case in point for my last post...

Eir_S

Originally posted by wordiz

Originally posted by Eir_S

I don't agree with the mob mentality, but how can you be certain of anyone's motives?  Me, I watched a few gameplay videos.  Some were better than others, but I still think the ranged combat looks like garbage, irrespective of how good the player was.  There's no doubt in my mind that I'm going to give the game a try no matter what the internet has to say about it.  My main worry is that the developers are hoping to make their money back on name recognition alone, and then basically throw their hands in the air and say "Yeah it was mediocre, but we still got paid, thanks suckers".

I think it's a valid concern.

This is where you gotta judge them by their fruits. EA and Bioware had recent negative track records prior to the fail of SWTOR. Bethesda has, IMO, released nothing but quality games. One could expect the same from Zenimax because of this, or see them as the seperate entities they are and not know what to expect. Regardless of being seperate companies, Bethesda is still putting their rep on the line with this game, and I can't see them trying to piss off and/or betray their hordes of loyal players.

Agreed.  Like I said, it's just a worry.. or more of a concern.  I don't have faith in Zenimax, nor do I have a lack of faith in them.  All I know is that they've got Matt Firor, and I don't put a lot of faith into names, regardless of how big they are, but rather results.  Since it seems they've never actually made a game before ESO (to my knowledge), there's no way to tell yet.  The more I read the growing angst over this game, I hope for the sake of MMO gamers and for Zenimax itself, that the game is still very incomplete from what we saw... or at least feels good when you're actually controlling it.  It's hard to tell what a game plays like just by watching it.  Even this post sounds negative, but I really do want to take a "wait and see" approach here and not toss the game aside before it's even finished, but the thing is, what other stance could one realistically take from an unproven developer?

Ayulin

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

I am one of many fans of ESO is who the target audience. Been playing TES games forever. I have played them to death. I am a HUGE TES fan. I will admit my fav PvP I have ever played was DAoC but this game has more then enough TES in it to make any fan happy if they would take time to look past the mob. 

Obviously not, you are trying to say anyone that doesn't like the direction is simply following the hate mob. I however formed my opinion by watching the videos, reading the information, and getting some actual play time with the game. I've been a TES fan since daggerfall and no, TESO doesn't have enough TES in it to make me happy so your statement as much as you wish it were true is not. You will have to simply accept that. 

Oooo got to play for 20 min and you think you know the game? How cute. Guess most MMOs get to full swing by then who knew.

And now you're being bitter and hypocritical.

You've had just as much info to go on as GrayGhost, or anyone else, has - with the possible exception of hands-on play time - but you seem to be quite sure you know the game, based on how you're attacking GrayGhost and those who don't share your view.

How can you be so sure you're right about the game?

 

wordiz

Originally posted by fantasyfreak112

Originally posted by wordiz

Originally posted by XxGrimmxX
If you are expecting TESO to be like any of the previous TES games that we've all enjoyed, you're going to have a bad time.

As if Bethesda doesn't have another chapter in the series planned regardless of this game. This is why Zenimax is handling it.

I'm a long time fan of TES series since Daggerfall. I don't get why fans of the series, lore junkies and whatnot (like myself) act like this game is ending the series, or if we even have to honor the lore of TESO in regard to the rest of the series. We'll still have more amazing TES games, Fallout games etc. from Bethesda whether this game tanks or is the end all MMO.

You don't get why people expect TES MMO to be like TES? Some people actually care if they waste money also.

I don't get why people think making a MMO exactly like a TES game is even possible.

I realize that this is a TES themed MMO, which is why it isn't Elder Scrolls 6 (like Final Fantasy 11 and 14).

It's not the next chapter.

wordiz

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by wordiz

Originally posted by Eir_S

I don't agree with the mob mentality, but how can you be certain of anyone's motives?  Me, I watched a few gameplay videos.  Some were better than others, but I still think the ranged combat looks like garbage, irrespective of how good the player was.  There's no doubt in my mind that I'm going to give the game a try no matter what the internet has to say about it.  My main worry is that the developers are hoping to make their money back on name recognition alone, and then basically throw their hands in the air and say "Yeah it was mediocre, but we still got paid, thanks suckers".

I think it's a valid concern.

This is where you gotta judge them by their fruits. EA and Bioware had recent negative track records prior to the fail of SWTOR. Bethesda has, IMO, released nothing but quality games. One could expect the same from Zenimax because of this, or see them as the seperate entities they are and not know what to expect. Regardless of being seperate companies, Bethesda is still putting their rep on the line with this game, and I can't see them trying to piss off and/or betray their hordes of loyal players.

Agreed.  Like I said, it's just a worry.. or more of a concern.  I don't have faith in Zenimax, nor do I have a lack of faith in them.  All I know is that they've got Matt Firor, and I don't put a lot of faith into names, regardless of how big they are, but rather results.  Since it seems they've never actually made a game before ESO (to my knowledge), there's no way to tell yet.  The more I read the growing angst over this game, I hope for the sake of MMO gamers and for Zenimax itself, that the game is still very incomplete from what we saw... or at least feels good when you're actually controlling it.  It's hard to tell what a game plays like just by watching it.  Even this post sounds negative, but I really do want to take a "wait and see" approach here and not toss the game aside before it's even finished, but the thing is, what other stance could one realistically take from an unproven developer?

Sounds like you have a pretty healthy perspective. Non-baised, yet careful not to excite or hype. In the current climate this is the way to be. Catching on to industry patterns is important, yet maintaining hope that some developer could come and blow us all away, is equally important.

I agree with most of your observations. If it's underdeveloped here's to hoping they spend some more time on the game versus rushing it out to compete.

Zenimax was actually founded by Bethesda, and Bethesda is it's parent company. Zenimax is pretty much their online gaming company for ESO and all future ventures in the genre (Fallout most likely). So in a sense, Bethesda's rep is still attached to this game. Even if it wasn't their company, it would still be Bioware calling the EA black come excuse time.

Arglebargle

Originally posted by wordiz

Originally posted by Arglebargle

Originally posted by wordiz

If you don't follow the majority and have your own taste, that's good. Complaining about the mob mentality is pointless, they'll just mob on you harder.

I recently stopped giving a flying shit about what my friends are playing, or what the majority is playing... or what their thoughts on games are, it's pretty liberating to play what you want to play. If you think a game sucks, don't play it or support it financially, that speaks louder than anything you could ever post on here does.

There's a slew of new games coming out that deserve a try. Who cares who's playing what? The best thing about MMO's is you can always find another guild.

 

Great for the individual, but companies and developers building large, expensive games absolutely have to pay attention to what the larger audience thinks about paying for their game.   The developer's investment in the game  has to match the amount of money that will be coming in.  Misjudge that badly enough, and you will be out on the street. 

 

 

Naturally, that response was tailored for the individual. At the same time, if all gamers operated that way, support would flow towards the games they wanted to play regardless. The minority gets screwed by the industry in the end either way.

I think that is happening, it's just a slow moving ship.  Big games take a long time to develop.  ESO was proposed, what, four or five years ago?   Sometimes those decisions they made look great in the context of the time, but now that it's nearing completion, it may not be so appropriate.   And there will be shipwrecks.

midnitewolf

The main issue is that these game developers keep trying to hit WoW-like numbers when they need to set their sights on a making a much smaller number of people happy. 

Take SWTOR for example.  They released that if they hit 500,000 subscribers, the game would be a success.  This on a game that reportedly took over 200 million to develop.  However instead of catering to that core of 500,000 who wanted a legitimate MMO verison of KOTOR with a simlar progression system, they decided they wanted millions of subscribers and well since WoW achieved that, lets make SWTOR similar to WoW.  Well they didn't manage to do that and the game went to F2P very quickly and in the process, they have 500,000+ pissed off hardcore Star Wars/KOTOR fans that wanted Star Wars, not WoW in space.

In any case, this is something that developers need to keep in mind.  If your going to design a game around the Elder Scrolls, it needs to feel like Elder Scrolls, not another game that just happens to call itself Elder Scrolls.  If it doesn't have all the guilds, factions, ability to turn into a vampire/werewolf, skill based progression, etc, it is not going to be Elder Scrolls, simple as that.

 

Katilla

Originally posted by steuss

People are rightly pissed because the TESO devs basically said, we're gonna make TES a MMO, and everyone was happy, but then people see the actual gameplay and think, "Wtf? this is tab, target, WoW clone bullshit, again. This is NOTHING like TES.

 

I'm pissed. Why aren't you? Are you happy with mediocrity and green text?

i didn't see tab targeting... have you even seen any footage?? Stop calling everything a WoW clone like it was the FIRST MMO evar.  WoW and TESO look nothing alike and do not play the same.

Caliburn101

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

I am one of many fans of ESO is who the target audience. Been playing TES games forever. I have played them to death. I am a HUGE TES fan. I will admit my fav PvP I have ever played was DAoC but this game has more then enough TES in it to make any fan happy if they would take time to look past the mob. 

Obviously not, you are trying to say anyone that doesn't like the direction is simply following the hate mob. I however formed my opinion by watching the videos, reading the information, and getting some actual play time with the game. I've been a TES fan since daggerfall and no, TESO doesn't have enough TES in it to make me happy so your statement as much as you wish it were true is not. You will have to simply accept that. 

Oooo got to play for 20 min and you think you know the game? How cute. Guess most MMOs get to full swing by then who knew.

His 20 mins is a hell of a lot more exposure to the actual game play than you have had with all of your constant assumptions and accusations.

You are right Vorthanion - 20 is infinitely more than ZERO.

If you bet on the zero on a roulette wheel, you have a 35:1 chance to win.

It's a long bet that is only very rarely the right one, and then only by chance.

Interestingly, the zero on a roulette wheel is green...

Katilla

Originally posted by Caliburn101

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

I am one of many fans of ESO is who the target audience. Been playing TES games forever. I have played them to death. I am a HUGE TES fan. I will admit my fav PvP I have ever played was DAoC but this game has more then enough TES in it to make any fan happy if they would take time to look past the mob. 

Obviously not, you are trying to say anyone that doesn't like the direction is simply following the hate mob. I however formed my opinion by watching the videos, reading the information, and getting some actual play time with the game. I've been a TES fan since daggerfall and no, TESO doesn't have enough TES in it to make me happy so your statement as much as you wish it were true is not. You will have to simply accept that. 

Oooo got to play for 20 min and you think you know the game? How cute. Guess most MMOs get to full swing by then who knew.

His 20 mins is a hell of a lot more exposure to the actual game play than you have had with all of your constant assumptions and accusations.

You are right Vorthanion - 20 is infinitely more than ZERO.

If you bet on the zero on a roulette wheel, you have a 35:1 chance to win.

It's a long bet that is only very rarely the right one, and then only by chance.

Interestingly, the zero on a roulette wheel is green...

i wish this forum had a "Like" button for this post

ShakyMo

Originally posted by PAL-18

Originally posted by ShakyMo

Originally posted by PAL-18

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Like all the flipping out about the DAoC PvP model. Its just 1 part of the game. The PvE thats been talked about is rich and full of life much like TES. Sure its done in a MMO way but thats what needs to be done as TES with group play a MMO does not make. You have open world dungeons 2 and 5 man. Instance dungeons as well. Solo caves and ruins to explore. Join the mage guild and get rewarded for exploring. There is open world quests and free roaming quests. You also have the new phased events for orgnized guilds and groups to take on and on top of that you get level 50 you get 2 whole maps as elder game to explore to your hearts content. What game has to much elder game? 

 

This is the problem ,its odd if you dont see it if you are such a ES fan.

If you allready know how the game is I.E i have done these in wow 10000 times ,after this dung i go to next  and i allready know where that leads then i join RvR while my daily is on cd.

Its nothing like ES.

There will be HUGE sings written over dungeon "beware adventurer ,this is 5 man dungeon"

 

err daoc doesnt have shite like dailys, instanced dungeons and pvp you have to queue for

i dont know much about daoc,played it for a while and didnt like the UI,fantastic game sure but i decided to play something else in that time.

But this ES thingy,if they even tried to make it in honor of ES,there only would be dungeons ,just dungeons and let people decide if those are 2 man or 100 mans or whatever mans .

thats how daoc dunfgeons work

XxGrimmxX

Originally posted by Katilla

Originally posted by steuss

People are rightly pissed because the TESO devs basically said, we're gonna make TES a MMO, and everyone was happy, but then people see the actual gameplay and think, "Wtf? this is tab, target, WoW clone bullshit, again. This is NOTHING like TES.

 

I'm pissed. Why aren't you? Are you happy with mediocrity and green text?

i didn't see tab targeting... have you even seen any footage?? Stop calling everything a WoW clone like it was the FIRST MMO evar.  WoW and TESO look nothing alike and do not play the same.

Have you seen any footage? Go watch the very beginning when he kills the rats. Thanks

Destai

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

What I have seen on this forum is far from constructive feedback. Its been on the level of hate that is down right sad. They have made a concession but to please the mob mentality of this forum it would be no small task. You can label it as giving just your opinion and that is what some do but there is a vast number of people here who attack anyone that has anything opsitive to say about the game thats not in line with the small mob thats grown here.

I hope the devs dont cave in at this point thinking this is the general status quo on ESO fans. Its mostly a MMOrpg.com theme thats is in almost every forum now. Hate is in, and we call it feedback. We hate before even get gameplay footage. We hate and tell devs how to make the game and whats wrong with it before we even play it. No wonder new games dont tell us they are even making a game till they are 3-4 years into development. 

We kick and bite at every design choice the devs make and as always, most people who like it dont post much past awesome I cant wait to play. So the devs mostly see the angery mob and start questioning if they should change their development path. Often games over the years has done just this and we gamers play a large part in why we are getting more and more crappy games. Developers no long just have fans, they have mobs that think they know better about game development then they and we create negitive feedback till they see it our way. Or else we will post something negitive in every thread and news outlet about the game. We drive away people thinking maybe our negitive thinking maybe true and often drive off new fans before any real reason is valid to do so. We dont have a product in had to be upset about.

Like all the flipping out about the DAoC PvP model. Its just 1 part of the game. The PvE thats been talked about is rich and full of life much like TES. Sure its done in a MMO way but thats what needs to be done as TES with group play a MMO does not make. You have open world dungeons 2 and 5 man. Instance dungeons as well. Solo caves and ruins to explore. Join the mage guild and get rewarded for exploring. There is open world quests and free roaming quests. You also have the new phased events for orgnized guilds and groups to take on and on top of that you get level 50 you get 2 whole maps as elder game to explore to your hearts content. What game has to much elder game? 

But thats not what we talk about. We pick and pick at one point and make a storm on why its so bad till its changed. Then we pick a different point and do the same thing till all thats left is a shell of a game that was its original design. It becomes so messed up that when its finaly released we all say... see this game does suck but we are in a large part to blame. I hope the ESO devs keep the corse and not even bother coming to look at what the so called fans have to say here. 

Players have every right to be pissy. Game after game coming out with missing features, shallow content, and cheap free-to-play gimmicks. The furor that met the announcement of this game was a beautiful thing to see - it showed players can be unified and hopefully prevent some stupid design decision. It's funny how developers and publishers sell their game with such occlusion. They expect players to not nitpick - even though it's evident we do. And we should. We're the consumers. We're the ones wanting to be entertained. These games are our culture and we should have every right to state what we want. The developers aren't artists. They're not making these games for the sake of art of personal accomplishment. They're making it to make money. They should have the sense to listen to the harsh criticism provided and doing something constructive with it, rather than placate us.

Ramanadjinn

Originally posted by Caliburn101

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

Oooo got to play for 20 min and you think you know the game? How cute. Guess most MMOs get to full swing by then who knew.

His 20 mins is a hell of a lot more exposure to the actual game play than you have had with all of your constant assumptions and accusations.

You are right Vorthanion - 20 is infinitely more than ZERO.

If you bet on the zero on a roulette wheel, you have a 35:1 chance to win.

It's a long bet that is only very rarely the right one, and then only by chance.

Interestingly, the zero on a roulette wheel is green...

 

its not infinitely more, it is 20 minutes more than zero.  

We don't usually calculate "greater" or "less than" using probability and statistics as you did.  The fault being it can have absurd consequences.  If you do it that way bad things like P(x) > P(y) therefore x > y  ->  so P(x) = P(y) therefore x = y -> P(7) = P(8) therefore 7 = 8.

In conclusion, Vorthanion may be correct that 20 is a hell of a lot more, if and only if 20 minutes is a hell of a lot.

imo it is not.  it is just 20 minutes more.  i don't put much faith in either person's opinion of the game based on 0 minutes or 20 minutes.

monarc333

The biggest problem isn't the combat, or graphics or style..it's the segregation of 2/3 of the player base. Sorry but that just doesn't seem like the kind of game I want to play. Shame really when they have this amazing IP.