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so there is a lifetime sub option - but what if it goes F2P ???

bugmenobugmeno Iowa, IAPosts: 85Member

question in the title - what if it goes F2P are the lifetime subs screwed?

250 $ for the Hero forver pack lifetime sub - does it come with a guarantee that the game will NEVER go F2P ?? 

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Comments

  • VorchVorch Somewhere, FLPosts: 800Member

    Has any subscription game ever guarunteed that it will never go F2P?

    That's a good way to get a class-action lawsuit. Or to be forced to close down.

    "As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

  • ArrowAzArrowAz Mesa, AZPosts: 8Member
    Mark Jacobs (the developer) has already said this game will never go f2p.
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,754Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bugmeno

    question in the title - what if it goes F2P are the lifetime subs screwed?

    250 $ for the Hero forver pack lifetime sub - does it come with a guarantee that the game will NEVER go F2P ?? 

    subscription games that offered lifetime before and are now happily F2P games. Star Trek Online, Champions ONline, TSW (b2p), Lotro, DDO (i think ddo had lifetime, cant remember tho). I think i am missing a couple more.

     

    Not a single one that offered lifetime is still true to its sub only vision. CU could go the same way. Gotta wait and see. Any promises at this point so early would be just false. If the game does not do well with the small audience they are aiming for, then its either f2p or shut down.

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  • tinuelletinuelle bergenPosts: 287Member Uncommon

    The average lifespan in the western world is 70+ years.

    I've yet to see Any game run this long isnt that a much bigger concern for you.

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  • morfidonmorfidon BochniaPosts: 245Member
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    Originally posted by bugmeno

    question in the title - what if it goes F2P are the lifetime subs screwed?

    250 $ for the Hero forver pack lifetime sub - does it come with a guarantee that the game will NEVER go F2P ?? 

    subscription games that offered lifetime before and are now happily F2P games. Star Trek Online, Champions ONline, TSW (b2p), Lotro, DDO (i think ddo had lifetime, cant remember tho). I think i am missing a couple more.

     

    Not a single one that offered lifetime is still true to its sub only vision. CU could go the same way. Gotta wait and see. Any promises at this point so early would be just false. If the game does not do well with the small audience they are aiming for, then its either f2p or shut down.

    CU won't go f2p. Daoc is 12 years old and it's not F2P.

  • MkilbrideMkilbride Hooksett, NHPosts: 637Member Uncommon

    Also.

     

    It's not a life-time sub. It's a renewable sub @1$ per year. He did this ti avoid the legal issues you speak of, Kickstarter gave him the idea.

     

    That said, MJ will shut the game down if it has to go F2P, he's said.

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  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,754Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by morfidon
    Originally posted by rojo6934
     

    subscription games that offered lifetime before and are now happily F2P games. Star Trek Online, Champions ONline, TSW (b2p), Lotro, DDO (i think ddo had lifetime, cant remember tho). I think i am missing a couple more.

     

    Not a single one that offered lifetime is still true to its sub only vision. CU could go the same way. Gotta wait and see. Any promises at this point so early would be just false. If the game does not do well with the small audience they are aiming for, then its either f2p or shut down.

    CU won't go f2p. Daoc is 12 years old and it's not F2P.

    i didnt say it will go f2p. Look at my last sentence. If it does not make enough money from the small audience they are aiming for then they have 2 option: f2p or shut down. Another poster already claims that MJ will shut the game down before going f2p. I dont know about that.

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  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    You're paying for the game to be made. The lifetime sub is a reward. If the payment model changes later on, the game still got made. I'm sure Mark would give lifetime subbers and also backers who got the monthly discounts bonus points for the cash shop like other games do if that ever happened. But he seems intensely opposed to the F2P model and cash shops, so it doesn't seem like something that would happen quickly after release. More than likely you'll make back what you paid for the lifetime sub in money saved on monthly subs before then.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
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  • ZiftylrhavicZiftylrhavic GrenoblePosts: 222Member

    I don't remember where i found it, but MJ said :

    "If the game is in a state where it needs to go FTP, i will shut it down".

    I may have gotten one or two words wrong, but that was the general idea, i'll try to find his comment.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,754Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ziftylrhavic

    I don't remember where i found it, but MJ said :

    "If the game is in a state where it needs to go FTP, i will shut it down".

     

    enough reason not to kick start projects.

     

    image
  • ZiftylrhavicZiftylrhavic GrenoblePosts: 222Member
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    Originally posted by Ziftylrhavic

    I don't remember where i found it, but MJ said :

    "If the game is in a state where it needs to go FTP, i will shut it down".

     

    enough reason not to kick start projects.

     

    If you absolutely despise PTP yes, but i don't see why otherwise. MJ just assured us that we wouldn't have to deal with PTW and/or high level noobs issues. I think that's a pretty good reason to back this.

  • ArrowAzArrowAz Mesa, AZPosts: 8Member
    Originally posted by rojo6934

    Originally posted by Ziftylrhavic
    I don't remember where i found it, but MJ said : "If the game is in a state where it needs to go FTP, i will shut it down".  

    enough reason not to kick start projects.

     

     

    You don't understand the purpose of a kick starter. Also, Mark Jacobs told backers if the game ever did shut down we would be given the soucre code, and instructions on setting up our own server.
  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ArrowAz
    Mark Jacobs (the developer) has already said this game will never go f2p.

    Heard that one many times before.

  • Bad.dogBad.dog Belleville, ONPosts: 1,108Member
    Originally posted by bugmeno

    question in the title - what if it goes F2P are the lifetime subs screwed?

    250 $ for the Hero forver pack lifetime sub - does it come with a guarantee that the game will NEVER go F2P ?? 

    Does it come with a guarantee that the game will ever get made ?

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member
    Originally posted by meddyck
    You're paying for the game to be made. The lifetime sub is a reward. If the payment model changes later on, the game still got made. I'm sure Mark would give lifetime subbers and also backers who got the monthly discounts bonus points for the cash shop like other games do if that ever happened. But he seems intensely opposed to the F2P model and cash shops, so it doesn't seem like something that would happen quickly after release. More than likely you'll make back what you paid for the lifetime sub in money saved on monthly subs before then.

    It's a possibility though that if the game bombs and they refuse to go F2P the only other real choice might be to shut it down altogether.

    I understand why MJ and some players want a subs fee and are anti F2P, but it does offer an option if the game struggles to regenerate it.

    DAoC never dropped its subs fee and has never recovered, games like LotRO went F2P and its worked for them. DAoC is propped up by EA, I not sure the CU team will be able to survive if the subs drop below the red line.

    Its this attitude that might wind up coming back to bite them in the backside though.

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • OdamanOdaman Satesboro, GAPosts: 194Member
    Like someone else said, when the game goes down he'll be handing out source code. You can't ask for more than that. 
  • ZiftylrhavicZiftylrhavic GrenoblePosts: 222Member
    Originally posted by Zinzan
    Originally posted by meddyck
    You're paying for the game to be made. The lifetime sub is a reward. If the payment model changes later on, the game still got made. I'm sure Mark would give lifetime subbers and also backers who got the monthly discounts bonus points for the cash shop like other games do if that ever happened. But he seems intensely opposed to the F2P model and cash shops, so it doesn't seem like something that would happen quickly after release. More than likely you'll make back what you paid for the lifetime sub in money saved on monthly subs before then.

    It's a possibility though that if the game bombs and they refuse to go F2P the only other real choice might be to shut it down altogether.

    I understand why MJ and some players want a subs fee and are anti F2P, but it does offer an option if the game struggles to regenerate it.

    DAoC never dropped its subs fee and has never recovered, games like LotRO went F2P and its worked for them. DAoC is propped up by EA, I not sure the CU team will be able to survive if the subs drop below the red line.

    Its this attitude that might wind up coming back to bite them in the backside though.

    They already said they would shut down instead of going FTP, and that they would release the code so players can run their own servers.

     

    There is no point regenerating the game with the FTP casual crowd, one of the aspect that we hope will make it good is the reputation thing. If the game is full of players that comes and stays only 1 month before leaving, you don't know anyone, and nobody can know you if you do something great, so the game is right away less attracting to us.

  • fanglofanglo Virginia, VAPosts: 290Member

    What a good company would do is give their Lifetime sub players a chunk of thier game cones every month. 

    This way a lifetime sub player will be able to buy a ton of the store goodies every month if they choose.

    I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member
    Originally posted by Bad.dog
    Originally posted by bugmeno

    question in the title - what if it goes F2P are the lifetime subs screwed?

    250 $ for the Hero forver pack lifetime sub - does it come with a guarantee that the game will NEVER go F2P ?? 

    Does it come with a guarantee that the game will ever get made ?

    MJ pinky swore.

     

  • black777black777 chicoutimi, QCPosts: 100Member
    Originally posted by ArrowAz
    Mark Jacobs (the developer) has already said this game will never go f2p.

     yeah right.. anything to get my money out of my pocket.

    And in 3 years, it's going to be an another song..

     

    Been there, done that.

    image
  • usuckmmorpgcomusuckmmorpgcom c, KYPosts: 1,348Member

    How about we wait and see if it will be Camelot Unchained or Camelot Unfunded.

    Seems to me that would be the first hurdle.

  • ZiftylrhavicZiftylrhavic GrenoblePosts: 222Member

    Originally posted by Xthos

    Originally posted by Bad.dog
    Originally posted by bugmeno

    question in the title - what if it goes F2P are the lifetime subs screwed?

    250 $ for the Hero forver pack lifetime sub - does it come with a guarantee that the game will NEVER go F2P ?? 

    Does it come with a guarantee that the game will ever get made ?

    MJ pinky swore.

    Unless there is a major crisis that would ruin most people i think we can be pretty safe there. They would ask more if they needed more to be sure the game will be released.

    Originally posted by black777

    Originally posted by ArrowAz
    Mark Jacobs (the developer) has already said this game will never go f2p.

     yeah right.. anything to get my money out of my pocket.

    And in 3 years, it's going to be an another song..

     

    Been there, done that.

    I don't think pushing away most potential players with words like "no PvE" "death penalty" "no handholding" "no fast travel" and "forced socialization" is fitting with the idea of making the most money possible.

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member

    Fun fact, no game MJ ever was involved in ever went F2P afaik.

    I don't think its fair to hold bad experiences with other devs/publishers against him, as far as i know the man is good on his word. Besides no sane man would want to go through the internet shitstorm of "you lied, you said xy" on something as big as this. I mean honestly, just shutting the thing down would be less of a hassle imho.

  • GKermichilGKermichil Hibernia, IDPosts: 32Member

    I'm funded for one of the lifetime subscription tiers, so here are my thoughts on the issue.  Since I have actually money in the game, I've put quite a bit of thought into this.

    MJ has said that this game won't be at the standard $15/month subscription.   For the sake of argument, I've assumed it to be closer to $10.  At that rate, my $250 pays for about two years of play time.  If the game lasts that long, I can't really feel cheated.  I've had my money returned.  Sure, I am losing out on a little bit of interest if I had paid month to month and kept the extra invested, but let's be honest, that isn't a large amount.

    After the two year mark if the game goes F2P, I still have a game to play.  I am not charged extra to keep playing, so I haven't lost anything.  If it goes P2W, there is an entirely different set of problems; however, I would hope that CSE gives lifetime subs some benefits in the cash shop if it goes that. 

    If the game shuts down, it shuts down.  It would suck that a game which I had so much hope for that I donated $250 to years in advanced would fail so quickly, but at that point it is what it is.  I am sure the CSE people would also be disappointed, and they have much more riding on it than I do.  Their families' (yes even MJ's, but even more so the rank and file) lively hood depends upon the game succeeded, so they will do all that they can keep the game alive.  If the game lasts two years, I'm even.  If it doesn't, well it is disappointing, but I gave a game that is saying (and now showing) all the right things a chance to succeed.  What can I be bitter about?

    The most probable option is that the game will make, not go F2P, and not shut down, only to have me not really enjoy the game and not play it for my two year break-even point.  In that case not getting my financial return is on me.  CSE never promised that I would love the game.  They promised they would make a game based upon certain principles.  Those principles are why I am donating to the game.  If it doesn't live up to all that I want it to be, it won't be the first MMO to break my heart.  However, when you've been craving a certain time of game for a decade, if somebody (with credibility) comes by wanting to make a game exactly like you've been craving, I had no choice to buy open my wallet and give it a chance.

    Going F2P would be the most disappoint of all the options.  Mainly because MJ has said that the game is definitely not going F2P.  If he were to go back on his word, he would lose a huge amount of credibility to me and to others.  He would have to clearly articulate his damn good reason for doing so, and he would need to make it right to the lifetime subscribers to save any face at all.  That said though, if it happens after the two year point (and especially the three year subscription that I am explicitly given through the Kickstarter), I can't truly feel cheated.

    image

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member
    Originally posted by Ziftylrhavic
    Originally posted by Zinzan
    Originally posted by meddyck
    You're paying for the game to be made. The lifetime sub is a reward. If the payment model changes later on, the game still got made. I'm sure Mark would give lifetime subbers and also backers who got the monthly discounts bonus points for the cash shop like other games do if that ever happened. But he seems intensely opposed to the F2P model and cash shops, so it doesn't seem like something that would happen quickly after release. More than likely you'll make back what you paid for the lifetime sub in money saved on monthly subs before then.

    It's a possibility though that if the game bombs and they refuse to go F2P the only other real choice might be to shut it down altogether.

    I understand why MJ and some players want a subs fee and are anti F2P, but it does offer an option if the game struggles to regenerate it.

    DAoC never dropped its subs fee and has never recovered, games like LotRO went F2P and its worked for them. DAoC is propped up by EA, I not sure the CU team will be able to survive if the subs drop below the red line.

    Its this attitude that might wind up coming back to bite them in the backside though.

    They already said they would shut down instead of going FTP, and that they would release the code so players can run their own servers.

     

    There is no point regenerating the game with the FTP casual crowd, one of the aspect that we hope will make it good is the reputation thing. If the game is full of players that comes and stays only 1 month before leaving, you don't know anyone, and nobody can know you if you do something great, so the game is right away less attracting to us.

    I have not seen that before, where did MJ say they would release the code if the game shuts down? Link would be nice :)

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

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