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Why i can't buy level in MMORPG ?

iixviiiixiixviiiix GSPosts: 834Member Uncommon

A Stupid question right ?

But let think about it.

In every MMORPG , you have to earn exp and in game gold

Exp for level up and gold to buy things you need

So

What if you can level up with gold and forget about EXP ?

imagine your loved MMO with gold act as EXP.

What will player do in a MMO where gold are exp?

How in game economy will change with it ?

 

I interest in how everyone think about a game like that.

EXP with gold factors

 

My engrish's bad so excuse me if it hard to read

Edit: to make it clean

Originally posted by iixviiiix

 A gold type i talk about are [in game gold] , not real life money

 

 In game Gold are same with EXP , you need to play game to get them.

Only diffrence between them are tradable and untradable.

 

my question are if you mix 2 of them in 1 , what will turn out. A game with no exp and in game gold act as EXP

use gold to level up instead of EXP.

I want to know how you think gameplay will turn out if it happen.

Not something like

"here is a great example why most modern MMO's struggle and fail I feel."

Ect ect ....

 

I hope this edit make everything clean

 

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Comments

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member

    It could work I suppose.

    Many old RPG's reqired both (my personal preference) you would gain the XP and then have to visit a trainer and pay for traning... Prior to "training" you would have enough XP to level but would stay at your current level.

     

    -The problem would be exploiting by merely giving gold to an alt or a friend and having them level that way.

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon

    in EVE you can...kinda.

     

    since there are no levels in the traditional sense, and to become a higher ... 'class' you need skills and ships/parts/equipment...which is bought with gold...

     

     

    image

  • sketocafesketocafe StoupaPosts: 801Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    in EVE you can...kinda.

     

    since there are no levels in the traditional sense, and to become a higher ... 'class' you need skills and ships/parts/equipment...which is bought with gold...

     

     

    I'll disagree with you here for the most part. You can't buy more skill training, and it is entirely possible to undock in way more ship than you can handle. You may be able to fly a faction battleship with all the pricy modules, but it's not going to act like a faction battleship with all the pricy mods piloted by someone with skills trained and a knowledge of game mechanics. 

    At best you get little boosts in eve, say you  buy a meta 4 module for your frigate while you're waiting on training for the tech 2 variant.

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon

    you can buy the skill books though.

     

    and the upper ones can cost many hundred of millions.

     

    (so what some would call endgame skills, aka the space coffin supercapital or the retirement titan buying them will be felt in your pocket big time. since you'll have huge expenses getting the ship and modules/drones/etc, getting all the required skill books...money doesn't buy skill training but it ure will help getting the training started).

     

    I'm only arguing the contribution of gold towards character progression. I know it's a weak argument I'm making but there's not much that fits better to what OP asks for.

    image

  • WW4BWWW4BW KoldingPosts: 493Member
    Originally posted by iixviiiix

    Stupid question ?

    But let think about it.

    In every MMORPG , you have to earn exp and in game gold

    Exp for level up and gold to buy things you need

     

    So

    What if you can level up with gold and forget about EXP ?

     

    imagine your loved MMO with gold act as EXP.

    What will player do in a MMO where gold are exp?

    How in game economy will change with it ?

     

    I interest in how everyone think about a game like that.

    EXP with gold factors

     

    My engrish's bad so excuse me if it hard to read

     Eve is often measured by much money you have, even if you have the skill point system.. I dont remember playing any other MMO where money was as important for what you could do.

     And in replying to the title of the post, if not the text, I could mention that EQ let you buy belts or bones from other players that you could hand in to NPCs for XP. And Im sure there is something similar in other games, but I cant think of specifics

  • sketocafesketocafe StoupaPosts: 801Member Uncommon

    I see where you're coming from, but unless you're talking +5 attribute implants there's not much of OPs gold to XP idea in EVE. From a design standpoint, there is no difference between having to buy missile launcher operation in EVE and visiting a mage trainer in wow and buying fireball rank 2( I do know that wow auto gives you skills now, but they had this method for a very long time and I can't think of many mmos where you DON'T pay to train new skills). You see skillbooks costing so much because EVE goes so much further with the skills. 

     

    Edited to actually reply to OP. As much as I'd like to jump on you for such a suggestion, I really cant see why not. In most games, levelling isn't a journey anymore, it's just the grind you slog through before you hit level cap and really start playing the game. If this is the case, why not add something to speed it up further? if you're going to have locked classes without a variety in questing zones, why not make levelling an alt a little easier? 

    If levelling is still difficult and a journey unto itself, then I wouldn't like to see this, but where it isn't, i don't see why not. Though I wouldn't be likely to play those games.

  • WW4BWWW4BW KoldingPosts: 493Member
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    you can buy the skill books though.

     

    and the upper ones can cost many hundred of millions.

     

    (so what some would call endgame skills, aka the space coffin supercapital or the retirement titan buying them will be felt in your pocket big time. since you'll have huge expenses getting the ship and modules/drones/etc, getting all the required skill books...money doesn't buy skill training but it ure will help getting the training started).

     

    I'm only arguing the contribution of gold towards character progression. I know it's a weak argument I'm making but there's not much that fits better to what OP asks for.

    Also like in old school MMOs where you would lose xp where you died, having loads of money will allow you to risk more with out crippling you with losing a level of effectiveness... sure if you dont have a clone you could lose skill points too but that is not usually the case.

  • WW4BWWW4BW KoldingPosts: 493Member
    Originally posted by sketocafe
    I see where you're coming from, but unless you're talking +5 attribute implants there's not much of OPs gold to XP idea in EVE. From a design standpoint, there is no difference between having to buy missile launcher operation in EVE and visiting a mage trainer in wow and buying fireball rank 2( I do know that wow auto gives you skills now, but they had this method for a very long time and I can't think of many mmos where you DON'T pay to train new skills). You see skillbooks costing so much because EVE goes so much further with the skills. 

     Eve isnt exclusivly measured in money, like you say. But they do play a much bigger role than in other MMOs.

     While skill points are a measure stick for how long you have played the game and opens up new avenues of play, money is a measure stick of how much and how well you play. It also helps open up avenues of game play that would otherwise be unavailable to someone with less money.

    Its not 100%. But EvE is the only game I have played where economics matter as a benchmark for success. 

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,989Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by WW4BW
    Originally posted by iixviiiix

    Stupid question ?

    But let think about it.

    In every MMORPG , you have to earn exp and in game gold

    Exp for level up and gold to buy things you need

     

    So

    What if you can level up with gold and forget about EXP ?

     

    imagine your loved MMO with gold act as EXP.

    What will player do in a MMO where gold are exp?

    How in game economy will change with it ?

     

    I interest in how everyone think about a game like that.

    EXP with gold factors

     

    My engrish's bad so excuse me if it hard to read

     Eve is often measured by much money you have, even if you have the skill point system.. I dont remember playing any other MMO where money was as important for what you could do.

     And in replying to the title of the post, if not the text, I could mention that EQ let you buy belts or bones from other players that you could hand in to NPCs for XP. And Im sure there is something similar in other games, but I cant think of specifics

    Lineage 1 was money centric, at least for casters.  To cast spells you had to buy them, they didn't come from just being the proper level, and they were only available by buying them from players who had got them as drops in the game.

    I remember wanting the Bug Bear spell book, and saving up for months to pay the 1M Adena I eventually paid for it.  There were many spells I never got because I never got the cash, and was one of the few mages blessed to have the invisibility spell because it was a drop for me.

    I believe they did this because Mages really didn't need to buy gear to be powerful, outside of their staff there wasn't much to buy, while more physical characters needed gear/weapon upgrades (also expensive) to remain effective. (especially by enchanting them to high levels)

    Of course, the problem today with this (wasn't too bad back in 2002 when I played L1) is that people who purchase gold from sellers would have a huge advantage, and drive the prices up to probably insane levels.

    In EVE it isn't too bad, by the time you need to buy the skill books that cost in the mega-millions, you've usually figured out a way to afford whatever you need to just by playing the game. 

     

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • HrothaHrotha -Posts: 821Member
    Originally posted by iixviiiix

    Stupid question ?

    But let think about it.

    In every MMORPG , you have to earn exp and in game gold

    Exp for level up and gold to buy things you need

     

    So

    What if you can level up with gold and forget about EXP ?

     

    imagine your loved MMO with gold act as EXP.

    What will player do in a MMO where gold are exp?

    How in game economy will change with it ?

     

    I interest in how everyone think about a game like that.

    EXP with gold factors

     

    My engrish's bad so excuse me if it hard to read

    Easy question for yourself to answer regarding your real-life:

    If you could, would you buy ista lvl... idk 100? Insta 100years old to have all the experience? Nooo you would not want to do that because we are here for making the experience.

    Many people already get this, so join the boat: You enjoy life in the present moment - that means no future and most importantly no past. We dont enjoy the past and dont enjoy the future. We CAN only enjoy the present moment. The future is an idea and the past are just memories, basicly also an idea. So you cant enjoy them

    Or do you only have Sex for the Orgasm? "Hey lady, 50,- for an instant orgasm please." - what :)

    We enjoy the road and everything that comes with it.

    image

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member
    -Looking at the treand over the last few years I would say that soon enough the only way to level will be with a credit card (or pre paid game card) and there will be "deals" on instant max level (backers will have an additional tier of levels they will be able to acess above and beyong the level cap for the masses)
  • HrothaHrotha -Posts: 821Member
    Originally posted by Jacxolope
    -Looking at the treand over the last few years I would say that soon enough the only way to level will be with a credit card (or pre paid game card) and there will be "deals" on instant max level (backers will have an additional tier of levels they will be able to acess above and beyong the level cap for the masses)

    Looking at the trend is not making change. You are change if you acknowladge what IS and then move from there and dont watch what is and watch what is and watch what is... and then argue with yourself why nothing changes. That should be obvious :)

    image

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member
    Originally posted by 4bsolute
    Originally posted by Jacxolope
    -Looking at the treand over the last few years I would say that soon enough the only way to level will be with a credit card (or pre paid game card) and there will be "deals" on instant max level (backers will have an additional tier of levels they will be able to acess above and beyong the level cap for the masses)

    Looking at the trend is not making change. You are change if you acknowladge what IS and then move from there and dont watch what is and watch what is and watch what is... and then argue with yourself why nothing changes. That should be obvious :)

    I would diagree.

    I am opposed to the trend, but powerless to stop the evil incusion of monetizing my games- So the most I can do is not play and bitch about it. =)

    Watching trends in games, politics and world events doesnt make me in any position to change anything. I subscribe to trends journal and it can help me make wise investments (looking at future trends) but since I am broke as hell, I have no power to act on that knowledge LOLOLOLOL.

  • WW4BWWW4BW KoldingPosts: 493Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by WW4BW
    Originally posted by iixviiiix

    Stupid question ?

    But let think about it.

    In every MMORPG , you have to earn exp and in game gold

    Exp for level up and gold to buy things you need

     

    So

    What if you can level up with gold and forget about EXP ?

     

    imagine your loved MMO with gold act as EXP.

    What will player do in a MMO where gold are exp?

    How in game economy will change with it ?

     

    I interest in how everyone think about a game like that.

    EXP with gold factors

     

    My engrish's bad so excuse me if it hard to read

     Eve is often measured by much money you have, even if you have the skill point system.. I dont remember playing any other MMO where money was as important for what you could do.

     And in replying to the title of the post, if not the text, I could mention that EQ let you buy belts or bones from other players that you could hand in to NPCs for XP. And Im sure there is something similar in other games, but I cant think of specifics

     

    In EVE it isn't too bad, by the time you need to buy the skill books that cost in the mega-millions, you've usually figured out a way to afford whatever you need to just by playing the game. 

     

     

    Unless you want  go straight for capital pilot or otherwise specialize.. then you need those books pretty early.. 

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by iixviiiix

    Stupid question ?

    But let think about it.

    In every MMORPG , you have to earn exp and in game gold

    Exp for level up and gold to buy things you need

     

    So

    What if you can level up with gold and forget about EXP ?

     

    imagine your loved MMO with gold act as EXP.

    What will player do in a MMO where gold are exp?

    How in game economy will change with it ?

     

    I interest in how everyone think about a game like that.

    EXP with gold factors

     

    My engrish's bad so excuse me if it hard to read

     How about real world cash?  A buck a level per level? how about $200.00 to cap.

  • TheJodaTheJoda chicago, ILPosts: 467Member

    ......here is a great example why most modern MMO's struggle and fail I feel.   Why would you want to buy levels?  The journey should be a important part of the game and journey.  Its this RUSH to end concept so you can PVP and RAID that causes these games to fail.

     

    Example:  EQ and WoW even....both had raids at different levels as your toon leveled.  I still recall raiding in EQ , different zones had different raids for the level your avatar was.  This kept you in the game as you leveled at a slower pace so you could enjoy ALL the game had to offer.

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    In Eve Online, the amount of money you spend goes directly towards the skill point count of your character. Now you can make it go faster or slower depending on implants and whether you have a skill training at all times, but essentially you are paying to level up.

    Money gives you game time and game time gives you skill points. Therefore, isn't it the same a paying for skill points? Technically, it is a Pay-2-Win game.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    In Eve Online, the amount of money you spend goes directly towards the skill point count of your character. Now you can make it go faster or slower depending on implants and whether you have a skill training at all times, but essentially you are paying to level up.

    Money gives you game time and game time gives you skill points. Therefore, isn't it the same a paying for skill points? Technically, it is a Pay-2-Win game.

    Let's take that a step further and say all subscription games are pay to win since you can't advance unless you pay your monthly fee.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by dave6660
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    In Eve Online, the amount of money you spend goes directly towards the skill point count of your character. Now you can make it go faster or slower depending on implants and whether you have a skill training at all times, but essentially you are paying to level up.

    Money gives you game time and game time gives you skill points. Therefore, isn't it the same a paying for skill points? Technically, it is a Pay-2-Win game.

    Let's take that a step further and say all subscription games are pay to win since you can't advance unless you pay your monthly fee.

    Not the same thing. Other, regular, subscription games require effort from the player in order to accumulate power. Eve does not; You get skill points even when you are offline.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by dave6660 Originally posted by Quirhid In Eve Online, the amount of money you spend goes directly towards the skill point count of your character. Now you can make it go faster or slower depending on implants and whether you have a skill training at all times, but essentially you are paying to level up. Money gives you game time and game time gives you skill points. Therefore, isn't it the same a paying for skill points? Technically, it is a Pay-2-Win game.
    Let's take that a step further and say all subscription games are pay to win since you can't advance unless you pay your monthly fee.
    Not the same thing. Other, regular, subscription games require effort from the player in order to accumulate power. Eve does not; You get skill points even when you are offline.


    If it takes an average of four months to reach a level where you can make a difference in the Eve universe, then the question would be, why doesn't CCP allow people to pay four months worth of subscription all at once to gain that level of skill points? For that matter, what about any MMO? If it takes an average of two months to reach "max effective level", then why don't most MMO publishers accept two months worth of payment and advance players to the "max effective level"?

    I don't expect publishers to do this, and to be clear, I don't want them to do this. I just wonder why they don't. If game publishers are universally money grubbing slugs, why aren't they money grubbing more than they are?

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Raithe-NorRaithe-Nor Moscow, IDPosts: 315Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    If it takes an average of four months to reach a level where you can make a difference in the Eve universe, then the question would be, why doesn't CCP allow people to pay four months worth of subscription all at once to gain that level of skill points? For that matter, what about any MMO? If it takes an average of two months to reach "max effective level", then why don't most MMO publishers accept two months worth of payment and advance players to the "max effective level"?

    I don't expect publishers to do this, and to be clear, I don't want them to do this. I just wonder why they don't. If game publishers are universally money grubbing slugs, why aren't they money grubbing more than they are?

     

    It's because the very people that would pay for the ability to reach max effective level immediately are precisely the people that NEED stratification to make themselves interested in playing the game.  They are called grinders or metagamers, sometimes powergamers..

    Note how the F2P system works.  A bunch of people pay nothing at all to try the game out and hover in the lower to mid levels of the game.  These people are what makes the end-gamers feel like they are important.  If you don't believe me, go read all the forum posts of metagamers congratulating themselves for "helping some poor newb from being a total gimp without decent gear."  It's truly comical, because the end-gamers antics are actually preventing any influx in new players.

    Its a catch-22 situation.  Gameplay-wise, there is no purpose to levels anymore.  Deleveling now occurs automatically in most WoW clones, so you can't even metagame the way MMOs used to allow.  Since roleplayers simply aren't really involved anymore, there's no purpose for them, either.  But if they got rid of the leveling scheme in MMOs, they would fail even faster than is prevalent.  Metagamers need the illusion of superiority if not the actual fact.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by iixviiiix

    Stupid question ?

    But let think about it.

    In every MMORPG , you have to earn exp and in game gold

    Exp for level up and gold to buy things you need

     

    Ugh...

  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Cedar Springs, MIPosts: 761Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by iixviiiix

    Stupid question ?

    But let think about it.

    In every MMORPG , you have to earn exp and in game gold

    Exp for level up and gold to buy things you need

     

    So

    What if you can level up with gold and forget about EXP ?

     

    imagine your loved MMO with gold act as EXP.

    What will player do in a MMO where gold are exp?

    How in game economy will change with it ?

     

    I interest in how everyone think about a game like that.

    EXP with gold factors

     

    My engrish's bad so excuse me if it hard to read

    This is why I have always opposed cash shops in MMOs. Once the idea gets into Player's heads that buying ingame stuff with real life Money is OK, then one of the next steps is the OP's idea.

    Players either see what is wrong with this, or they don't. I miss the days when the ones that didn't get it simply moved along to another form of entertainment.

    Bah. I am going to be sick. Make a hole.

  • ArChWindArChWind Some Place, WIPosts: 618Member Uncommon

    In EQ2 you can buy levels with real cash level with collections. In fact you can buy all your combat arts through masters with station cash and spells too. You can go from level 1 to level 95 and never kill a monster.

     

    Power level by trading station cash cards for plat and pay someone else to level yout.

     

    if you want that kind of leveling it is there so you can play it your way. :)

     

  • HedeonHedeon GraestedPosts: 954Member Uncommon

    think most like to have the several progression ways, but sure why not be able to go earn gold, then go pay a trainer of sorts, for spell upgrades/attribute points.

    but then you would be able to buy gold with $´s and then skip the whole leveling/char progression game... obvious ; )   I aint competitive in this way, so wouldnt care if other people decided to ruin the game for themself though

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