And I am speaking of freedom to see all the areas of TES in one game. ESO is giving you that and then you compair it to the freedom to go anywhere in the console games. They locked you into the game you bought, you played Skyrim you play that map and only that map. ESO lets you explore almost all of the maps of all of the games and you say its not a step forward. Get level 50 and go see everything on one char.
no no, that has always been a ridiculous argument.
In TES games you could always go everywhere that was developed within "that game".
They didn't add Elseweyr into skyrim and require you to make a different character to see it. It just wasn't in skyrim. Had it been in skyrim you would have been able to go there.
You and others who use that argument are essentially making a statment hat is equivalent to being in Oblvion and having to make a different character to go to Anvil.
"but you get to see Anvil with a different character! How lucky!"
Beat me to it, thanks. As you say, this is not an arguement. Bottom line is if they are gonna make any game with the TES IP and not stick to the core principlas of the game, all they are doing is bastardizing that IP. And yes, for money. It's called being a whore.
Here we disagree. As a long time fan of TES, I think they did hit everything they should have out of the part on a design level. They have so much exploring and open world content and with the added 50+ and 50++ maps this attitude is like looking a girft horse in the mouth.
I'm sorry but not being able to explore the entire world until 50 (then you only get an instanced version of it?) is not "open world" as you say, in fact it is the opposite.
So you would rather have each factions map left intact and do the starting area and get say level 10. Then go do the other starting areas and get say level 15. Then enter the level 10+ areas at level 15 and do each of them till you level 25 and then enter the level 15 areas and do all of them as a level 25 char? Yawn!!! Im a real gamer, I like my content to be a challenge.
Get your factions map done and then do the 50+ and 50++ content solo and with friends for some hard core elder game. No killing greys and feeling cool because it only takes 2 hits to kill them. How much more watered down do you want this game? Should we give you god mode to?
My 1st problem with what you are saying is in your 1st line "each faction's map". I don't remember any "faction maps/zones in TES. Why can't we have starting areas based on race and have the choice to choose a faction (if at all) and/or change factions via quests? I think you are missing the point. All this pidgeon-holing is not needed and is not TES in any way, shape, or form.
And why cant Mario still be fixing pipes? Forget this side scrolling idea where he saves his girlfriend Peach. You know what lets rewind everything and go back to 8 bit graphics. Thats how TES started. Lets rewind WoW and have it only be a RTS. By your standard we would miss out on a lot of great games that started from something else.
What? So confused. WTB more logic.
Replying to what you said in red. Games grow and change and just because the single player game had it does not mean its needs to be in the MMO. Sure over all it needs to feel like TES. It must have story and lore to fit but Locked factions does not break this game. Just like any video game that started out as a RTS or a single player RPG. When it makes a jump into 3D or a MMO or any other medium. Its time for change to fit that. Just like a book made into a movie it cant keep all the same elements.
Except they could keep all the same elements and give you what you want at the same time, but they choose not to. Everyone could be happy here, they CHOOSE not to do it, not that it can't be done.
But it still uses the Elder Scrolls IP right? And every TES game since the begining has been open world with no restrictions on class/faction/race right?
What does that have to do with what I said? Every single TES game has been about a hero of uncertain race and origins saving the world, with that premise how could it be much else in terms of factions/Race? That's really not the premise this time around...
As opposed to "last time around" which was the same as every time around since arena.
Look it doesn't matter, enjoy the game when it comes out. If you like it, then i am truly happy for you. I just feel it is wasted potential and that it could have been so much more.
Fact: TES games in general are open world and do not hinder your choice of class/race/faction
Fact: TESO is not open world and forces class/race/faction restrictions
How is this debatable? /thread
He will make it debatable by not debating and continuing to do what he has been doing every single time, ignoring the points and using something not related to back what he is saying as if it helps.
You are correct Pixel, and that is why Zenimax is worried enough that they spoke about 1st person and opening faction lands at 50 saying it should help quell the fans worried about it not being TES enough...they never would have spoken like that if there wasnt massive outrage all over the internet, nor would sites like this one be trying so hard to tie non-TES things to TES. The majority is on our side, they know what TES is and what it isnt and the only people backing TESO right now are SOME DaoC fans...because the other DaoC fans are backing CU and could care less about this...thing of a game, heck even Mark Jacobs the CREATOR of DaoC is leaving behind some of these design choices because of how bad they were.
Thanks Jason, I was starting to think it was me for a moment. With that said, hopefully they listen to what the people want and change it. not holding my breath though. Cash is king unfortunatly, and the easiest route to that cash is generally the path taken.
The thing is PVP MMO's aren't really known as cash-cows, they're actually quite a niche. Not sure how such design regardless of IP is designed to "bring in the cash". A popular Ip doesn't make niche designs popular.
I was not aware that this was a PvP MMO. I was under the impression that a PvP MMO has little to no PvE, such as what CU is working twords.
The whole design of the game is based around RvR, every decission made is to support that design, DAOC had all kinds of PVE btw...
But it still uses the Elder Scrolls IP right? And every TES game since the begining has been open world with no restrictions on class/faction/race right?
Before Donky Kong, Mario used to fix piple only right? So the game should never progress past that right? This is not a single player game. They picked a model and be that sandbox or themepark. WoW or DAoC it would mean that not eventhing would remain intact. You cant add group play to a TES game and say woot we have a MMO.
Already found the claim of change to the game's concept to be demonstrably false in my review of the game series lineup. The fact that the first game, last game, and the rest in between are all first person action rpgs that are played in large open world environments kinda points to the argument being flawed.
EDIT: As for the Donkey Kong comment it doesn't even make sense. Donkey Kong was the first title for MArio and established Mario as a jumping/platformer type character, which is an element that lived on into Super Mario Galaxy, where they genrally just expanded upon his character capability.
The fact Mario is a major brand name and mascot of Nintendo also means he's pulled into many crossover and side games, which is a different aspect.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Fact: TES games in general are open world and do not hinder your choice of class/race/faction
Fact: TESO is not open world and forces class/race/faction restrictions
How is this debatable? /thread
He will make it debatable by not debating and continuing to do what he has been doing every single time, ignoring the points and using something not related to back what he is saying as if it helps.
You are correct Pixel, and that is why Zenimax is worried enough that they spoke about 1st person and opening faction lands at 50 saying it should help quell the fans worried about it not being TES enough...they never would have spoken like that if there wasnt massive outrage all over the internet, nor would sites like this one be trying so hard to tie non-TES things to TES. The majority is on our side, they know what TES is and what it isnt and the only people backing TESO right now are SOME DaoC fans...because the other DaoC fans are backing CU and could care less about this...thing of a game, heck even Mark Jacobs the CREATOR of DaoC is leaving behind some of these design choices because of how bad they were.
Thanks Jason, I was starting to think it was me for a moment. With that said, hopefully they listen to what the people want and change it. not holding my breath though. Cash is king unfortunatly, and the easiest route to that cash is generally the path taken.
The thing is PVP MMO's aren't really known as cash-cows, they're actually quite a niche. Not sure how such design regardless of IP is designed to "bring in the cash". A popular Ip doesn't make niche designs popular.
I was not aware that this was a PvP MMO. I was under the impression that a PvP MMO has little to no PvE, such as what CU is working twords.
The whole design of the game is based around RvR, every decission made is to support that design, DAOC had all kinds of PVE btw...
But it still uses the Elder Scrolls IP right? And every TES game since the begining has been open world with no restrictions on class/faction/race right?
Before Donky Kong, Mario used to fix piple only right? So the game should never progress past that right? This is not a single player game. They picked a model and be that sandbox or themepark. WoW or DAoC it would mean that not eventhing would remain intact. You cant add group play to a TES game and say woot we have a MMO.
"You cant add group play to a TES game and say woot we have a MMO"
And why cant Mario still be fixing pipes? Forget this side scrolling idea where he saves his girlfriend Peach. You know what lets rewind everything and go back to 8 bit graphics. Thats how TES started. Lets rewind WoW and have it only be a RTS. By your standard we would miss out on a lot of great games that started from something else.
What? So confused. WTB more logic.
Replying to what you said in red. Games grow and change and just because the single player game had it does not mean its needs to be in the MMO. Sure over all it needs to feel like TES. It must have story and lore to fit but Locked factions does not break this game. Just like any video game that started out as a RTS or a single player RPG. When it makes a jump into 3D or a MMO or any other medium. Its time for change to fit that. Just like a book made into a movie it cant keep all the same elements.
Except they could keep all the same elements and give you what you want at the same time, but they choose not to. Everyone could be happy here, they CHOOSE not to do it, not that it can't be done.
Thats what kills me from people on your side of this. You think you speak for all TES fans and you dont. I am a HUGE TES fan. Been playing them from the days of 8 Bit games. As a TES fan I LOVE this current design. At best if they remade the game there would be a different set of fans who would be happy and another set that would be upset.
But it still uses the Elder Scrolls IP right? And every TES game since the begining has been open world with no restrictions on class/faction/race right?
What does that have to do with what I said? Every single TES game has been about a hero of uncertain race and origins saving the world, with that premise how could it be much else in terms of factions/Race? That's really not the premise this time around...
As opposed to "last time around" which was the same as every time around since arena.
Well yea, but now we're entering the realm of redundancy. Does every TES game (especially when made for a different genre) need the same exact back-story? What's the point in a new studio (created by the OG owners) taking everything that is TES and repackaging it online? Would that not be counter to new TES titles by their father studio? WHy compete with your best selling product? That's how I look at it anyway, I'm happy to get my SP TES fix the way I always do, when they release the next sequel, first it's FO4 though.
Personally I always thought TES would make the best possible SWG2 if made into an MMO, I didn't get what i wanted either.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Deivos Already found the claim of change to the game's concept to be demonstrably false in my review of the game series lineup. The fact that the first game, last game, and the rest in between are all first person action rpgs that are played in large open world environments kinda points to the argument being flawed.
I think what he/they are getting at is that "games evolve" and must adapt. Unfortunatly, limiting choices does not equal evolution, more like the opposite...
The fact is that they could have stuck to the core of the franchise and still made an MMO. These restrictions are not needed. Again, it is about money and the most efficent way to get it.
But it still uses the Elder Scrolls IP right? And every TES game since the begining has been open world with no restrictions on class/faction/race right?
What does that have to do with what I said? Every single TES game has been about a hero of uncertain race and origins saving the world, with that premise how could it be much else in terms of factions/Race? That's really not the premise this time around...
As opposed to "last time around" which was the same as every time around since arena.
Well yea, but now we're entering the realm of redundancy. Does every TES game (especially when made for a different genre) need the same exact back-story? What's the point in a new studio (created by the OG owners) taking everything that is TES and repackaging it online? Would that not be counter to new TES titles by their father studio? WHy compete with your best selling product? That's how I look at it anyway, I'm happy to get my SP TES fix the way I always do, when they release the next sequel, first it's FO4 though.
"Does every TES game (especially when made for a different genre) need the same exact back-story?"
/palmface
Since when are we debating back-story? No one is talkign about back-story, we are talking about the faction lock...really?
I still dont see how you can see it any other way then it is. First TES game you can goto any map and see the big stuff from all the games. All you need to do is get to level 50 and you can see it all on one char. Or reroll for that faction and see it that way. Its more game to explore then any TES game before it. Done. As a TES fan this feels very much like a kid in a candy store and I am gona eat myself from one end to the other with a grin till I am the fat kid in the corner asking if I can do it again.
Well, it's important to note that their change allowing players to at least see the other areas on one character is a "decent" though not "great" consolation.
But it's better than the original alternative.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
And why cant Mario still be fixing pipes? Forget this side scrolling idea where he saves his girlfriend Peach. You know what lets rewind everything and go back to 8 bit graphics. Thats how TES started. Lets rewind WoW and have it only be a RTS. By your standard we would miss out on a lot of great games that started from something else.
What? So confused. WTB more logic.
Replying to what you said in red. Games grow and change and just because the single player game had it does not mean its needs to be in the MMO. Sure over all it needs to feel like TES. It must have story and lore to fit but Locked factions does not break this game. Just like any video game that started out as a RTS or a single player RPG. When it makes a jump into 3D or a MMO or any other medium. Its time for change to fit that. Just like a book made into a movie it cant keep all the same elements.
Except they could keep all the same elements and give you what you want at the same time, but they choose not to. Everyone could be happy here, they CHOOSE not to do it, not that it can't be done.
Thats what kills me from people on your side of this. You think you speak for all TES fans and you dont. I am a HUGE TES fan. Been playing them from the days of 8 Bit games. As a TES fan I LOVE this current design. At best if they remade the game there would be a different set of fans who would be happy and another set that would be upset.
And I ask again, if bethesda went back and imposed all the restrictions Zen is using in TESO, would that have made those games better for you? Absolutly not.
But it still uses the Elder Scrolls IP right? And every TES game since the begining has been open world with no restrictions on class/faction/race right?
Before Donky Kong, Mario used to fix piple only right? So the game should never progress past that right? This is not a single player game. They picked a model and be that sandbox or themepark. WoW or DAoC it would mean that not eventhing would remain intact. You cant add group play to a TES game and say woot we have a MMO.
"You cant add group play to a TES game and say woot we have a MMO"
Why? And who told you it is not possible?
Ooo my... trying to explain that to you is more time to educate you then I have at hand. Thats a epic amount of info to try and impart. I suggest you google MMO development and you may get an idea in a few days of reading.
Well he could say that in a manner that wasn't so dishonest.
I mean he's even going as far as saying "I am a HUGE TES fan." yet then follows up with saying "Been playing them from the days of 8 Bit games." which is kind of raising a red flag on it's own right now.
I already linked what the first Elder Scrolls game was, and the fact it is fundamentally the same as what Skyrim is today is a telling fact on it's own. People don't need to lose the aspects that makes a game series what it is when they are presented with new technology, they can expand upon it.
EDIT: And Nan, before you try to act like you have a high horse to ride on over MMO development one should note the fact that several first person open world action MMORPGs have been made. So the technical capacity does exist.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Well yea, but now we're entering the realm of redundancy. Does every TES game (especially when made for a different genre) need the same exact back-story? What's the point in a new studio (created by the OG owners) taking everything that is TES and repackaging it online? Would that not be counter to new TES titles by their father studio? WHy compete with your best selling product? That's how I look at it anyway, I'm happy to get my SP TES fix the way I always do, when they release the next sequel, first it's FO4 though.
"Does every TES game (especially when made for a different genre) need the same exact back-story?"
/palmface
Since when are we debating back-story? No one is talkign about back-story, we are talking about the faction lock...really?
The faction lock is a result of the back-story, which is a result of the design (RvR). It's all relative. TES's typical back-story is designed to support it's openness. If TESO had TES's typical back-story would it not also need it's open class/faction system?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
But it still uses the Elder Scrolls IP right? And every TES game since the begining has been open world with no restrictions on class/faction/race right?
Before Donky Kong, Mario used to fix piple only right? So the game should never progress past that right? This is not a single player game. They picked a model and be that sandbox or themepark. WoW or DAoC it would mean that not eventhing would remain intact. You cant add group play to a TES game and say woot we have a MMO.
"You cant add group play to a TES game and say woot we have a MMO"
Why? And who told you it is not possible?
Ooo my... trying to explain that to you is more time to educate you then I have at hand. Thats a epic amount of info to try and impart. I suggest you google MMO development and you may get an idea in a few days of reading.
Interesting. SWG had open world with no faction lock (in fact you could change factions through quests/grinding, and this was back in 2006. You are right though, I should look into MMO development because clearly this is an impossible feat.
The faction lock is a result of the back-story, which is a result of the design (RvR). It's all relative. TES's typical back-story is designed to support it's openness. If TESO had TES's typical back-story would it not also need it's open class/faction system?
To answer the question. Yes they do.
They are all Elder Scrolls games. Consequently they are all taking place in the Elder Scrolls continuity.
This isn't Final Fantasy, where each game is it's own thing under the same flagship title and a few constant aspects. It's a game series with a single continuity.
As a result, any lore the games put fort are generally seen as a canonical part of the entire series, which also means that each game that wises to remain a canonical part of the elder scrolls universe has to adhere to the elements that defines the series. Otherwise it's effectively a non-canonical spinoff.
Does that mean you need to start as a prisoner let loose into an unknown land? Not necessarily. But even as a prequel you are still beholden to the lore, mythos, and governing mechanics that have been laid down before you.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey I'm all done here, you guys defeat your own logic. it is impossible to have an intelligent conversation at this point.
It's only impossible to have an intellegent discussion if you're unwilling to partake, for instance if you didn't undertstand a point someone made, ask for clarification rather than throwing your hands up in the air.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey I'm all done here, you guys defeat your own logic. it is impossible to have an intelligent conversation at this point.
It's only impossible to have an intellegent discussion if you're unwilling to partake, for instance if you didn't undertstand a point someone made, ask for clarification rather than throwing your hands up in the air.
Let me rephrase. It is impossible to have a logical conversation when the opposing party counterdicts their own arguement throughout the debate.
I still dont see how you can see it any other way then it is. First TES game you can goto any map and see the big stuff from all the games. All you need to do is get to level 50 and you can see it all on one char. Or reroll for that faction and see it that way. Its more game to explore then any TES game before it. Done. As a TES fan this feels very much like a kid in a candy store and I am gona eat myself from one end to the other with a grin till I am the fat kid in the corner asking if I can do it again.
Well, it's important to note that their change allowing players to at least see the other areas on one character is a "decent" though not "great" consolation.
But it's better than the original alternative.
You are right that its a better alternative, but its still a major problem for me. While I appreciate that they are lisnting to us, being segregated from 2/3rds of the population just doesnt seem like fun. And fun is what these games are (supposed) to be all about. I just find it hard to understand why they would take this direction with such a well known franchise. If they are concerned about open world pvp hindering the leveling and enjoyment process of new people, then just make pvp lvl 80 only in the open world. Or better yet turn the dam thing off like gw2 does. Only have pvp in the rvr zone they are creating.
Its SOO frustrating that they are taking this route. I really want to like and play this game, buts its hard when you wont see 2/3rds of the people playing!
I still dont see how you can see it any other way then it is. First TES game you can goto any map and see the big stuff from all the games. All you need to do is get to level 50 and you can see it all on one char. Or reroll for that faction and see it that way. Its more game to explore then any TES game before it. Done. As a TES fan this feels very much like a kid in a candy store and I am gona eat myself from one end to the other with a grin till I am the fat kid in the corner asking if I can do it again.
Well, it's important to note that their change allowing players to at least see the other areas on one character is a "decent" though not "great" consolation.
But it's better than the original alternative.
You are right that its a better alternative, but its still a major problem for me. While I appreciate that they are lisnting to us, being segregated from 2/3rds of the population just doesnt seem like fun. And fun is what these games are (supposed) to be all about. I just find it hard to understand why they would take this direction with such a well known franchise. If they are concerned about open world pvp hindering the leveling and enjoyment process of new people, then just make pvp lvl 80 only in the open world. Or better yet turn the dam thing off like gw2 does. Only have pvp in the rvr zone they are creating.
Its SOO frustrating that they are taking this route. I really want to like and play this game, buts its hard when you wont see 2/3rds of the people playing!
I agree, and I don't see how blocking off 2/3rds of the game world was ever a good idea. Especially for "An MMO with TES elements".
Well he could say that in a manner that wasn't so dishonest.
I mean he's even going as far as saying "I am a HUGE TES fan." yet then follows up with saying "Been playing them from the days of 8 Bit games." which is kind of raising a red flag on it's own right now.
I already linked what the first Elder Scrolls game was, and the fact it is fundamentally the same as what Skyrim is today is a telling fact on it's own. People don't need to lose the aspects that makes a game series what it is when they are presented with new technology, they can expand upon it.
EDIT: And Nan, before you try to act like you have a high horse to ride on over MMO development one should note the fact that several first person open world action MMORPGs have been made. So the technical capacity does exist.
Its not a high horse. I agree many RPGs have been made into a MMO but none by adding group play and your done. If anyone has I am sure its long dead. So I will leave this in your hands. You explain why a single player RPG cant just add group play and have a MMO. I bow to your greater understanding. Or do you hold the same view point?
Well he could say that in a manner that wasn't so dishonest.
I mean he's even going as far as saying "I am a HUGE TES fan." yet then follows up with saying "Been playing them from the days of 8 Bit games." which is kind of raising a red flag on it's own right now.
I already linked what the first Elder Scrolls game was, and the fact it is fundamentally the same as what Skyrim is today is a telling fact on it's own. People don't need to lose the aspects that makes a game series what it is when they are presented with new technology, they can expand upon it.
EDIT: And Nan, before you try to act like you have a high horse to ride on over MMO development one should note the fact that several first person open world action MMORPGs have been made. So the technical capacity does exist.
Its not a high horse. I agree many RPGs have been made into a MMO but none by adding group play and your done. If anyone has I am sure its long dead. So I will leave this in your hands. You explain why a single player RPG cant just add group play and have a MMO. I bow to your greater understanding. Or do you hold the same view point?
I'm still waiting for your reply to my post regarding SWG. I see you choose to not reply to it. i would dodge it if I were you too, it's much easier to pick your battles when your replies are not based in logic.
The faction lock is a result of the back-story, which is a result of the design (RvR). It's all relative. TES's typical back-story is designed to support it's openness. If TESO had TES's typical back-story would it not also need it's open class/faction system?
To answer the question. Yes they do.
They are all Elder Scrolls games. Consequently they are all taking place in the Elder Scrolls continuity.
This isn't Final Fantasy, where each game is it's own thing under the same flagship title and a few constant aspects. It's a game series with a single continuity.
As a result, any lore the games put fort are generally seen as a canonical part of the entire series, which also means that each game that wises to remain a canonical part of the elder scrolls universe has to adhere to the elements that defines the series. Otherwise it's effectively a non-canonical spinoff.
Does that mean you need to start as a prisoner let loose into an unknown land? Not necessarily. But even as a prequel you are still beholden to the lore, mythos, and governing mechanics that have been laid down before you.
If that's your opinion you have every right to it. Personally I have my own, and I don't feel TES has to be set in an alternate reality of itself, to offer a different mechanic, all it really needs is a different motivation/scenario. The scenario up to this point has always been based on a central unknown hero.
This time around it's set in a period of a major war. Now before it's said know that I realize DAOC was not the only design they could have went with, and as I said before, my personal choice would be an SWG-like design. That's relative to my own gaming background though, and I realize that.
WIth a war going on some differences in world setup make a bit of sense. Have they taken that restriction too far? Maybe
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Except they could keep all the same elements and give you what you want at the same time, but they choose not to. Everyone could be happy here, they CHOOSE not to do it, not that it can't be done.
As opposed to "last time around" which was the same as every time around since arena.
Look it doesn't matter, enjoy the game when it comes out. If you like it, then i am truly happy for you. I just feel it is wasted potential and that it could have been so much more.
Before Donky Kong, Mario used to fix piple only right? So the game should never progress past that right? This is not a single player game. They picked a model and be that sandbox or themepark. WoW or DAoC it would mean that not eventhing would remain intact. You cant add group play to a TES game and say woot we have a MMO.
Already found the claim of change to the game's concept to be demonstrably false in my review of the game series lineup. The fact that the first game, last game, and the rest in between are all first person action rpgs that are played in large open world environments kinda points to the argument being flawed.
EDIT: As for the Donkey Kong comment it doesn't even make sense. Donkey Kong was the first title for MArio and established Mario as a jumping/platformer type character, which is an element that lived on into Super Mario Galaxy, where they genrally just expanded upon his character capability.
The fact Mario is a major brand name and mascot of Nintendo also means he's pulled into many crossover and side games, which is a different aspect.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
"You cant add group play to a TES game and say woot we have a MMO"
Why? And who told you it is not possible?
Thats what kills me from people on your side of this. You think you speak for all TES fans and you dont. I am a HUGE TES fan. Been playing them from the days of 8 Bit games. As a TES fan I LOVE this current design. At best if they remade the game there would be a different set of fans who would be happy and another set that would be upset.
Well yea, but now we're entering the realm of redundancy. Does every TES game (especially when made for a different genre) need the same exact back-story? What's the point in a new studio (created by the OG owners) taking everything that is TES and repackaging it online? Would that not be counter to new TES titles by their father studio? WHy compete with your best selling product? That's how I look at it anyway, I'm happy to get my SP TES fix the way I always do, when they release the next sequel, first it's FO4 though.
Personally I always thought TES would make the best possible SWG2 if made into an MMO, I didn't get what i wanted either.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think what he/they are getting at is that "games evolve" and must adapt. Unfortunatly, limiting choices does not equal evolution, more like the opposite...
The fact is that they could have stuck to the core of the franchise and still made an MMO. These restrictions are not needed. Again, it is about money and the most efficent way to get it.
"Does every TES game (especially when made for a different genre) need the same exact back-story?"
/palmface
Since when are we debating back-story? No one is talkign about back-story, we are talking about the faction lock...really?
Well, it's important to note that their change allowing players to at least see the other areas on one character is a "decent" though not "great" consolation.
But it's better than the original alternative.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
And I ask again, if bethesda went back and imposed all the restrictions Zen is using in TESO, would that have made those games better for you? Absolutly not.
Ooo my... trying to explain that to you is more time to educate you then I have at hand. Thats a epic amount of info to try and impart. I suggest you google MMO development and you may get an idea in a few days of reading.
Well he could say that in a manner that wasn't so dishonest.
I mean he's even going as far as saying "I am a HUGE TES fan." yet then follows up with saying "Been playing them from the days of 8 Bit games." which is kind of raising a red flag on it's own right now.
I already linked what the first Elder Scrolls game was, and the fact it is fundamentally the same as what Skyrim is today is a telling fact on it's own. People don't need to lose the aspects that makes a game series what it is when they are presented with new technology, they can expand upon it.
EDIT: And Nan, before you try to act like you have a high horse to ride on over MMO development one should note the fact that several first person open world action MMORPGs have been made. So the technical capacity does exist.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
The faction lock is a result of the back-story, which is a result of the design (RvR). It's all relative. TES's typical back-story is designed to support it's openness. If TESO had TES's typical back-story would it not also need it's open class/faction system?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Interesting. SWG had open world with no faction lock (in fact you could change factions through quests/grinding, and this was back in 2006. You are right though, I should look into MMO development because clearly this is an impossible feat.
To answer the question. Yes they do.
They are all Elder Scrolls games. Consequently they are all taking place in the Elder Scrolls continuity.
This isn't Final Fantasy, where each game is it's own thing under the same flagship title and a few constant aspects. It's a game series with a single continuity.
As a result, any lore the games put fort are generally seen as a canonical part of the entire series, which also means that each game that wises to remain a canonical part of the elder scrolls universe has to adhere to the elements that defines the series. Otherwise it's effectively a non-canonical spinoff.
Does that mean you need to start as a prisoner let loose into an unknown land? Not necessarily. But even as a prequel you are still beholden to the lore, mythos, and governing mechanics that have been laid down before you.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
It's only impossible to have an intellegent discussion if you're unwilling to partake, for instance if you didn't undertstand a point someone made, ask for clarification rather than throwing your hands up in the air.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Let me rephrase. It is impossible to have a logical conversation when the opposing party counterdicts their own arguement throughout the debate.
You are right that its a better alternative, but its still a major problem for me. While I appreciate that they are lisnting to us, being segregated from 2/3rds of the population just doesnt seem like fun. And fun is what these games are (supposed) to be all about. I just find it hard to understand why they would take this direction with such a well known franchise. If they are concerned about open world pvp hindering the leveling and enjoyment process of new people, then just make pvp lvl 80 only in the open world. Or better yet turn the dam thing off like gw2 does. Only have pvp in the rvr zone they are creating.
Its SOO frustrating that they are taking this route. I really want to like and play this game, buts its hard when you wont see 2/3rds of the people playing!
I agree, and I don't see how blocking off 2/3rds of the game world was ever a good idea. Especially for "An MMO with TES elements".
Its not a high horse. I agree many RPGs have been made into a MMO but none by adding group play and your done. If anyone has I am sure its long dead. So I will leave this in your hands. You explain why a single player RPG cant just add group play and have a MMO. I bow to your greater understanding. Or do you hold the same view point?
I'm still waiting for your reply to my post regarding SWG. I see you choose to not reply to it. i would dodge it if I were you too, it's much easier to pick your battles when your replies are not based in logic.
If that's your opinion you have every right to it. Personally I have my own, and I don't feel TES has to be set in an alternate reality of itself, to offer a different mechanic, all it really needs is a different motivation/scenario. The scenario up to this point has always been based on a central unknown hero.
This time around it's set in a period of a major war. Now before it's said know that I realize DAOC was not the only design they could have went with, and as I said before, my personal choice would be an SWG-like design. That's relative to my own gaming background though, and I realize that.
WIth a war going on some differences in world setup make a bit of sense. Have they taken that restriction too far? Maybe
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson