Your a freebie seeker. The worst kind of customer possible.
No company in their right mind would care what you think. In fact most companies wouldn't want you anywhere near their products. They want customers who have money and are willing to spend it.
Avoiding freebie seekers is marketing 101.
You have no idea what I am.
I want to pay a sub. How does that define 'freebie'?
Engage brain before mouth next time.
You said it yourself in plain english. You want to have a game for free, play it for a week or two and then choose whether or not it deserves your money.
You are the very definition of a freebie seeker. It's not meant to be insulting. However you are the kind of person companies should avoid.
Your a freebie seeker. The worst kind of customer possible.
No company in their right mind would care what you think. In fact most companies wouldn't want you anywhere near their products. They want customers who have money and are willing to spend it.
Avoiding freebie seekers is marketing 101.
You have no idea what I am.
I want to pay a sub. How does that define 'freebie'?
Engage brain before mouth next time.
You said it yourself in plain english. You want to have a game for free, play it for a week or two and then choose whether or not it deserves your money.
You are the very definition of a freebie seeker. It's not meant to be insulting. However you are the kind of person companies should avoid.
Hmm me and Vesavius don't agree on many things with MMO's but what you said and what he said are not the same.
He wants a trial, it's good he will pay money for it. If it's not he won't play. That is not a freebie seekie, that is a try before you buy seeker, which I totally agree with.
The only people who would not want a try before you buy is one who doesn't believe their product is good enough to pay money for.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Your a freebie seeker. The worst kind of customer possible.
No company in their right mind would care what you think. In fact most companies wouldn't want you anywhere near their products. They want customers who have money and are willing to spend it.
Avoiding freebie seekers is marketing 101.
You have no idea what I am.
I want to pay a sub. How does that define 'freebie'?
Engage brain before mouth next time.
You said it yourself in plain english. You want to have a game for free, play it for a week or two and then choose whether or not it deserves your money.
You are the very definition of a freebie seeker. It's not meant to be insulting. However you are the kind of person companies should avoid.
Nope. The word "sampler" was invented by companies. Companies know if they can get you to try their product they have a greater chance of getting you hooked. Even better percentages than advertising. In gaming this benefits us because the game makers have only one week to convince us their game rocks. The pressure is on and they are forced to make better games. Everyone wins.
Your a freebie seeker. The worst kind of customer possible.
No company in their right mind would care what you think. In fact most companies wouldn't want you anywhere near their products. They want customers who have money and are willing to spend it.
Avoiding freebie seekers is marketing 101.
You have no idea what I am.
I want to pay a sub. How does that define 'freebie'?
Engage brain before mouth next time.
You said it yourself in plain english. You want to have a game for free, play it for a week or two and then choose whether or not it deserves your money.
You are the very definition of a freebie seeker. It's not meant to be insulting. However you are the kind of person companies should avoid.
Nope. The word "sampler" was invented by companies. Companies know if they can get you to try their product they have a greater chance of getting you hooked. Even better percentages than advertising. In gaming this benefits us because the game makers have only one week to convince us their game rocks. The pressure is on and they are forced to make better games. Everyone wins.
then you also run into the issue where the devs pump out teh coolest stuff that a gamer is likely to expeirence in that first week of gameplay, then the rest of the game, towards end game kinda tappers out and starts to become stale and boring. kinda like GW2. The journey was amazingly fun, anyone can admit that, but once you get to the destination, it just sucks.
I relate GW2 to a console game experience. You have a ton of fun playing the game, but once you get to the end, you definitely don't feel the need to play it again or do the needless grind for getting the legendary gear and what not.
Games like WoW on the otherhand are different, an actual mmo that continuously grabs your attention and want to play, until you of course play it for years and get burnt out but nothing lasts forever so thats just fine.
Though i think im running off topic. What were we talking about anyway
Oh jackpot. Finally the curtain is being pulled back to show "F2P" for what it really is. Someone mentioned stickying this thread. I second that. Best "F2P" thread I've seen. I agree with so many posts here that I couldn't possibly quote them all.
F2p is being looked at now, however p2p is not immune:
Pay-to-Play practices have come under scrutiny by both the federal government[18] and a number of states.[19]
Oh jackpot. Finally the curtain is being pulled back to show "F2P" for what it really is. Someone mentioned stickying this thread. I second that. Best "F2P" thread I've seen. I agree with so many posts here that I couldn't possibly quote them all.
F2p is being looked at now, however p2p is not immune:
Pay-to-Play practices have come under scrutiny by both the federal government[18] and a number of states.[19]
F2P caters to the people who typically wont pay anything for a game, given the chance.
EA likes the model because you can make a relativly shitty product then offer advantages in the cash shop and make a lot of money off a few people, browser games are fantastic at this.
I like p2p, its fair, i know what im going to be paying...no "oh they added this $30 or $60 item to the cash shop and i need it to compete"
B2P works with some games, but not all. In all honesty with DLC creeping inot mmorpg land i see B2P as a politically correct version of p2p.
Games that are straight f2p with the item mall as their means to income are typically designed around the item mall. That means developer programmed fustrations, limits, and things that are unplesant..unless of course...you pay. This i hate, i cant stand it. Why make your game fustrating and unpleasant. Well i know why...
Sad to see pay to play go the way of the dodo, instant gratification generation doesnt like it though. I just think the short sightedness of these people leads them to think up front free games are better in the long run, typically they are more expensive and less fun due to their design around how they get you to spend.
I dont mind free games, its just i cant stay in them long. I regret every purchase i make in the long run, because they hit your wallet hard.
For p2p, i feel that as long as i play the month, the $15 was well spent, and by far the cheapest entertainment purchase i can make.
In all honesty F2P does fit the current gaming generation quite well from a business perspective. The are just going to leave the game in a month anyway, so why not start making the games cheaper on the development side, then hit the suckers hard in the wallet while you have their attention...your going to get way more than $15 out of most.
I payed like 80$ for Aion collector and it was just a boring crap to me. I payed 60$ to enjoy 2 months of GW2.
I pay 0$ for some f2p I enjoy for at least 1 year (after 1 year any game seems to be less exciting to me).
so now I would rather play for free than spend money for nothing.
Thanks to forum etc I have not bought SWTOR and Tera I used to be excited about.
So from now I'll not buy anything before I, at least, try it for 1 month or so. After may be I can buy said game, if it offer more content and such as any f2p I can use.
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises. Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
It is obvious that for people that see an MMORPG as a videogame, f2p is their best bet - have fun for free.
For people that have huge disposable income and like to feel the greatest ever and impress the noobs, f2p that sell items that are more powerful is their best bet.
For people that have loads of time, some money and like to feel the greatest and impressing the noobs, sub games are their best bet.
I play GW2 since I can spend whatever I feel like (including 0) and the only ones that are able to impress me are those that are truly skilled and not either people with nothing else to spend their time or money but the game.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
"Subs keep kiddies and freeloaders out, and only those that care will pay."
"F2P actually costs more money, with some players paying thousands".
It seems to me if paying $15 a month can be used as a measure of interest and dedication to the game, then thousands would mean much more dedication to the game.
Taking these arguments together it would also seem that actually those paying a sub ae the kiddies and freeloaders simce the sub is actually cheaper.
I think the obsession people have to call out the best model comes out of the fear every human has of being ripped off, that maybe they are not seeing something in the other model that everyone else is.
There is no best model, there is just the best model for your needs.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Free client, 1 week full access trial, and then an ongoing sub without cash shop *edited because I have heard what people have said about 2 weeks being too long and agree*
Your a freebie seeker. The worst kind of customer possible.
No company in their right mind would care what you think. In fact most companies wouldn't want you anywhere near their products. They want customers who have money and are willing to spend it.
Avoiding freebie seekers is marketing 101.
You have no idea what I am.
I want to pay a sub. How does that define 'freebie'?
Engage brain before mouth next time.
You said it yourself in plain english. You want to have a game for free, play it for a week or two and then choose whether or not it deserves your money.
You are the very definition of a freebie seeker. It's not meant to be insulting. However you are the kind of person companies should avoid.
A 'freebie seeker' that wants to pay money. ok.
Because product trials are bad and liking them makes you a customer compainies 'want to avoid'.
The brain is still not engaging, you might want to get that looked at.
Free client, 1 week full access trial, and then an ongoing sub without cash shop *edited because I have heard what people have said about 2 weeks being too long and agree*
Your a freebie seeker. The worst kind of customer possible.
No company in their right mind would care what you think. In fact most companies wouldn't want you anywhere near their products. They want customers who have money and are willing to spend it.
Avoiding freebie seekers is marketing 101.
You have no idea what I am.
I want to pay a sub. How does that define 'freebie'?
Engage brain before mouth next time.
You said it yourself in plain english. You want to have a game for free, play it for a week or two and then choose whether or not it deserves your money.
You are the very definition of a freebie seeker. It's not meant to be insulting. However you are the kind of person companies should avoid.
Nope. The word "sampler" was invented by companies. Companies know if they can get you to try their product they have a greater chance of getting you hooked. Even better percentages than advertising. In gaming this benefits us because the game makers have only one week to convince us their game rocks. The pressure is on and they are forced to make better games. Everyone wins.
then you also run into the issue where the devs pump out teh coolest stuff that a gamer is likely to expeirence in that first week of gameplay, then the rest of the game, towards end game kinda tappers out and starts to become stale and boring. kinda like GW2.
I agree.
Which is why the trial client + sub works so well.
If you decide to play after the trial then the sub costs, what, $15? So it has cost you only that to carry on playing. Front loading the game only would score a small amount of revenue off you, so the incentive for the Dev is to maintain quality right through the play experience.
What a load of crap, if EA had not botched SWOTR this would have never seen print, and SWOTR falling face first into a pile of shit had nothing to do with pricing models, people would have gladly paid the monthly sub if the game wasn't such a horrible piece of shit.
thats no different from playin a trial B2p game with cash shop. one option you pay £15 just to login, one you pay in the cash shop if you think the game gives you value. Again the issue is price, subs should be around £5 a month, if it was either option would be comparable (and lets compare like for like here i.e good sub game v good p2p game)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Panzerbase What a load of crap, if EA had not botched SWOTR this would have never seen print, and SWOTR falling face first into a pile of shit had nothing to do with pricing models, people would have gladly paid the monthly sub if the game wasn't such a horrible piece of shit.
....F the market data. I will pay if the game is good enuff, and has a great core like AA , or how EQ did back in the day for example. Its all the kids that want everything free, and perfect NOW that ruin most mmos like content locust that move from one mmo to another after they rush to max level.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
It is obvious that for people that see an MMORPG as a videogame, f2p is their best bet - have fun for free.
For people that have huge disposable income and like to feel the greatest ever and impress the noobs, f2p that sell items that are more powerful is their best bet.
For people that have loads of time, some money and like to feel the greatest and impressing the noobs, sub games are their best bet.
I play GW2 since I can spend whatever I feel like (including 0) and the only ones that are able to impress me are those that are truly skilled and not either people with nothing else to spend their time or money but the game.
See, that's one thing that I just never get. MMOs clearly are games. There's really no way to argue otherwise. They just don't fit into any other category. However, what you said in the last sentence, where other people impress you... WHY? I don't play any game to impress others, nor is there anything that anyone can do in a game to impress me. It's entertainment, it's nothing that matters to anyone, except those so absurdly into it that they probably need professional help.
Stop trying to be impressive and stop being impressed by others and just play the damn game!
It is obvious that for people that see an MMORPG as a videogame, f2p is their best bet - have fun for free.
For people that have huge disposable income and like to feel the greatest ever and impress the noobs, f2p that sell items that are more powerful is their best bet.
For people that have loads of time, some money and like to feel the greatest and impressing the noobs, sub games are their best bet.
I play GW2 since I can spend whatever I feel like (including 0) and the only ones that are able to impress me are those that are truly skilled and not either people with nothing else to spend their time or money but the game.
See, that's one thing that I just never get. MMOs clearly are games. There's really no way to argue otherwise. They just don't fit into any other category.
Well, yes, there is. A true sandbox MMO could easily be described as a toy.
However, what you said in the last sentence, where other people impress you... WHY? I don't play any game to impress others, nor is there anything that anyone can do in a game to impress me.
Wow.. really? You aren't at all impressed by other's achievements or skills?
I am. I have seen some Starcraft players, for example, who definitely impress me with their skill. I don't get why you wouldn't give a nod to a player who has achieved something difficult or is clearly skilled.
I am confident in myself enough to not begrudge recognising quality in others, I guess others aren't though and prefer to just be 'not impressed'.
All this is very off topic though I guess, so I will leave my answers to you on what you say here after this.
It is obvious that for people that see an MMORPG as a videogame, f2p is their best bet - have fun for free.
For people that have huge disposable income and like to feel the greatest ever and impress the noobs, f2p that sell items that are more powerful is their best bet.
For people that have loads of time, some money and like to feel the greatest and impressing the noobs, sub games are their best bet.
I play GW2 since I can spend whatever I feel like (including 0) and the only ones that are able to impress me are those that are truly skilled and not either people with nothing else to spend their time or money but the game.
See, that's one thing that I just never get. MMOs clearly are games. There's really no way to argue otherwise. They just don't fit into any other category. However, what you said in the last sentence, where other people impress you... WHY? I don't play any game to impress others, nor is there anything that anyone can do in a game to impress me. It's entertainment, it's nothing that matters to anyone, except those so absurdly into it that they probably need professional help.
Stop trying to be impressive and stop being impressed by others and just play the damn game!
That is what I do.
For many though, there needs to be a meaning, you need to work for your stuff, etc.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by TheJoda ....F the market data. I will pay if the game is good enuff, and has a great core like AA , or how EQ did back in the day for example. Its all the kids that want everything free, and perfect NOW that ruin most mmos like content locust that move from one mmo to another after they rush to max level.
Saying "F the market data" doesn't change anything. If Game Type A is selling well, more of Game Type A will be produced.
It's actually predominantly non-kids driving the shift to F2P.
Certainly it's non-kids if you're talking about MMORPGs.
Spin it negatively as "instant gratification" all you want. The reality is if a game has stopped entertaining players there is no reason for them to keep paying a company for nothing and they're going to quit.
In fact it'd be supremely unhealthy for the games industry if players didn't quit those boring games, because Company A would just coast on the money train knowing it didn't have to put out competitive amounts of content and Company B's newly-released innovation would be ignored.
Of course in a F2P system you can test the waters of whether Company B's release actually is innovative or not before dropping a dime. Whereas with B2P you're giving money to the company before actually playing the game.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Comments
disagree. B2P or subs best way. Keeps the kiddies and riff raff out of games.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
You said it yourself in plain english. You want to have a game for free, play it for a week or two and then choose whether or not it deserves your money.
You are the very definition of a freebie seeker. It's not meant to be insulting. However you are the kind of person companies should avoid.
Hmm me and Vesavius don't agree on many things with MMO's but what you said and what he said are not the same.
He wants a trial, it's good he will pay money for it. If it's not he won't play. That is not a freebie seekie, that is a try before you buy seeker, which I totally agree with.
The only people who would not want a try before you buy is one who doesn't believe their product is good enough to pay money for.
Nope. The word "sampler" was invented by companies. Companies know if they can get you to try their product they have a greater chance of getting you hooked. Even better percentages than advertising. In gaming this benefits us because the game makers have only one week to convince us their game rocks. The pressure is on and they are forced to make better games. Everyone wins.
then you also run into the issue where the devs pump out teh coolest stuff that a gamer is likely to expeirence in that first week of gameplay, then the rest of the game, towards end game kinda tappers out and starts to become stale and boring. kinda like GW2. The journey was amazingly fun, anyone can admit that, but once you get to the destination, it just sucks.
I relate GW2 to a console game experience. You have a ton of fun playing the game, but once you get to the end, you definitely don't feel the need to play it again or do the needless grind for getting the legendary gear and what not.
Games like WoW on the otherhand are different, an actual mmo that continuously grabs your attention and want to play, until you of course play it for years and get burnt out but nothing lasts forever so thats just fine.
Though i think im running off topic. What were we talking about anyway
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Really?
So everybody who sells food doesn't believe in their product? Everybody who sells furniture?
You see how foolish your statement is now.
Errr what?
I skimmed those two and I saw nothing about computer games in there. Only stuff about bribery and government corruption.
Before I waste anymore on what might be irrelevant, perhaps you could point out to me why it is relevant?
Your right my mistake, I was looking at something else and copied the wrong link. Will edit.
F2P caters to the people who typically wont pay anything for a game, given the chance.
EA likes the model because you can make a relativly shitty product then offer advantages in the cash shop and make a lot of money off a few people, browser games are fantastic at this.
I like p2p, its fair, i know what im going to be paying...no "oh they added this $30 or $60 item to the cash shop and i need it to compete"
B2P works with some games, but not all. In all honesty with DLC creeping inot mmorpg land i see B2P as a politically correct version of p2p.
Games that are straight f2p with the item mall as their means to income are typically designed around the item mall. That means developer programmed fustrations, limits, and things that are unplesant..unless of course...you pay. This i hate, i cant stand it. Why make your game fustrating and unpleasant. Well i know why...
Sad to see pay to play go the way of the dodo, instant gratification generation doesnt like it though. I just think the short sightedness of these people leads them to think up front free games are better in the long run, typically they are more expensive and less fun due to their design around how they get you to spend.
I dont mind free games, its just i cant stay in them long. I regret every purchase i make in the long run, because they hit your wallet hard.
For p2p, i feel that as long as i play the month, the $15 was well spent, and by far the cheapest entertainment purchase i can make.
In all honesty F2P does fit the current gaming generation quite well from a business perspective. The are just going to leave the game in a month anyway, so why not start making the games cheaper on the development side, then hit the suckers hard in the wallet while you have their attention...your going to get way more than $15 out of most.
I payed like 80$ for Aion collector and it was just a boring crap to me.
I payed 60$ to enjoy 2 months of GW2.
I pay 0$ for some f2p I enjoy for at least 1 year (after 1 year any game seems to be less exciting to me).
so now I would rather play for free than spend money for nothing.
Thanks to forum etc I have not bought SWTOR and Tera I used to be excited about.
So from now I'll not buy anything before I, at least, try it for 1 month or so. After may be I can buy said game, if it offer more content and such as any f2p I can use.
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
Lord of the Rings Online f2p ............YES
The Old Republic f2p..........................NO
It is obvious that for people that see an MMORPG as a videogame, f2p is their best bet - have fun for free.
For people that have huge disposable income and like to feel the greatest ever and impress the noobs, f2p that sell items that are more powerful is their best bet.
For people that have loads of time, some money and like to feel the greatest and impressing the noobs, sub games are their best bet.
I play GW2 since I can spend whatever I feel like (including 0) and the only ones that are able to impress me are those that are truly skilled and not either people with nothing else to spend their time or money but the game.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
One curious thing is these 2 arguments:
"Subs keep kiddies and freeloaders out, and only those that care will pay."
"F2P actually costs more money, with some players paying thousands".
It seems to me if paying $15 a month can be used as a measure of interest and dedication to the game, then thousands would mean much more dedication to the game.
Taking these arguments together it would also seem that actually those paying a sub ae the kiddies and freeloaders simce the sub is actually cheaper.
I think the obsession people have to call out the best model comes out of the fear every human has of being ripped off, that maybe they are not seeing something in the other model that everyone else is.
There is no best model, there is just the best model for your needs.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Out of curiosity?
Shouldn't the long running p2p games like UO/DAOC/WOW/EVE be the best games out there as they spent the most on development as they got more money?
As monthly fees = best content in most posts i read here
A 'freebie seeker' that wants to pay money. ok.
Because product trials are bad and liking them makes you a customer compainies 'want to avoid'.
The brain is still not engaging, you might want to get that looked at.
I agree.
Which is why the trial client + sub works so well.
If you decide to play after the trial then the sub costs, what, $15? So it has cost you only that to carry on playing. Front loading the game only would score a small amount of revenue off you, so the incentive for the Dev is to maintain quality right through the play experience.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
+1
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
See, that's one thing that I just never get. MMOs clearly are games. There's really no way to argue otherwise. They just don't fit into any other category. However, what you said in the last sentence, where other people impress you... WHY? I don't play any game to impress others, nor is there anything that anyone can do in a game to impress me. It's entertainment, it's nothing that matters to anyone, except those so absurdly into it that they probably need professional help.
Stop trying to be impressive and stop being impressed by others and just play the damn game!
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
All this is very off topic though I guess, so I will leave my answers to you on what you say here after this.
Every restaurant I have been too: High end, mcdonalds, hotel... have provided a sample when I asked for it. Every single one.
In grocery stores I have tried their foods at other places before I bought them.
Every furntiure store I have ever been too has let me sit on the couch, lie on the bed... before I bought them. Every single one.
Your statement is foolish.
edit - I may not be able to try everything on the menu but I can try enough to decide if I like their food, just like a free trial.
That is what I do.
For many though, there needs to be a meaning, you need to work for your stuff, etc.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver