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Does a crafter class really make sense?

meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon

I'm not sure it does.

This class will play an important role in various siege related things according to Mark. But as anybody who played DAOC, WAR, etc. will tell you, not all of your time in RvR is spent sieging. If you have a crafter in your group in an open field battle, you will be at a big disadvantage against an enemy group full of the other classes.

I suppose it is possible crafters will also get weak combat abilities. But if you are going to do that, why not just make crafting like it is in other games including DAOC: something you can train in addition to your regular class rather than a class in itself? Then you could be a caster/crafter, tank/crafter, healer/crafter, etc.

I'm just not seeing the advantage or need for crafting to be a class by itself.

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Comments

  • BenediktBenedikt PraguePosts: 1,406Member Uncommon
    well, who said that person who choose crafter class even WANTS to be on the battlefield? i would be quite happy to be somewhere back in the base working on the replacement eq for fallen heroes :)
  • RealLifeGobboRealLifeGobbo Yorktown, VAPosts: 218Member

    I am personally all for it, since it will add another layer of complexity to the game. We don't know what all combat skills they will posses other than traps [from Kickstarter the video], but they will be integral to cause. Obviously, they will be useful for creating better defenses, siege engines/weapons, gear/items, but beyond that, I'm curious what MJ has in store for them! :-)

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  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    yup sounds good to me...

    The crafter class can also be in a fight as well and will play a key role in the battlefield..

    It also sounded to me in the main video that other classes could craft as well but just basic stuff.. still will have to wait and see.

  • KrullenKrullen SydneyPosts: 18Member

    People need to understand there is a huge untapped market for this class. My mum and dad are prime examples. They are 65 and retired. I got them into WoW years ago. My dad loves to go fishing, but not real fishing, he logs into wow and spends half his day fishing and loves it. Sells all his fish on the AH like a kingpin. He can't understand why people pay what they do.

     

    He is a chinese farmer in a big way, but  he does it for the pure fun. He has maxed out every craft and has all the best gear you can make. I tried to get him into pvp but he can't stand all the quick action, its just too fast. He pve's like a champ though.

     

    Both he and mum loved the idea of the CU  pure crafter class. They can level doing what they love and not have to compete with young people's skills that they just don't have.

     

    I told them about no loot drops, all the gear is made by crafters. Fighters need the crafters for gear and the crafters need the fighters for mats or zones. They would even be needed for seiging and front line repairs and keep takes.

    Their eyes lit up,  like a dream come true.

    They have all the time in the world to pump out crafting levels and gear, way more then those of us who work. Which I won't mind one little bit, and they get to play with their kids. (and very likely grandkids)

    It won't be the unemployed with all the time smashing out the levels,  watch out for the retired gamers. This is perfect for them. All you fighters who want your best crew out rvring and not lose your best healer to crafting,  get your folks in to be crafters to pump you full of gear. I have 6 of my direct family all backing this...

    DAOC - Krullen - Hero/Tristan

  • VolmokVolmok Cluj-NapocaPosts: 63Member Uncommon

    It could be something real, but would it perform on the battlefield?

    I envision something like an engineer that is able to craft everything even gizmos to help him battle. The engineer cannot carry weapons only a ranch and a screwdriver to deploy gizmos.

    To make this more balanced from the economical perspective the engineer class is not able to gather materials (maybe some armor and wepons specific ones) and has to get them from his allies in order to make armor; but he can get class specific materials to build gizmos. Or he could get all kind of meterials but a large percent of that would be class specific materials which are needed to craft class specific weapons; the class specific weapons would have limited use (a limited number of charges) and would distroy when the charges are consumed.

    It might nof be the best idea, but if it were to be a crafting specific class that class should be able to fight on the battlefield and also the other classes should be compensated for the lack of crafting skills.

     

    V.

  • VerbVerb Newtown Square, PAPosts: 14Member

    The game is going with the holy trinity of tankish, healer; dps/hybrid.  Each fills a role, ideally each role makes the others better.  I see crafters as another role.  They are infastructure, supplies, siege equipment for both offense and defence.  I think they add alot to the RP potential of the game as well.

     

    *Edit*  Even if they are useless in non-siege group combat, I don't see that as a bad thing, it is just not their role.  Foundational Principle #4 Choice Matters, when you choose to play the crafter class you are accepting the consequences.

  • MortifyMortify None of your BusinessPosts: 95Member
    Originally posted by Benedikt
    well, who said that person who choose crafter class even WANTS to be on the battlefield? i would be quite happy to be somewhere back in the base working on the replacement eq for fallen heroes :)

    Crafters have to be out in RvR as well to build structures and harvest resources.

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  • AdorianBladeAdorianBlade kalamazoo, MIPosts: 62Member
    Originally posted by meddyck

    I'm not sure it does.

    This class will play an important role in various siege related things according to Mark. But as anybody who played DAOC, WAR, etc. will tell you, not all of your time in RvR is spent sieging. If you have a crafter in your group in an open field battle, you will be at a big disadvantage against an enemy group full of the other classes.

    I suppose it is possible crafters will also get weak combat abilities. But if you are going to do that, why not just make crafting like it is in other games including DAOC: something you can train in addition to your regular class rather than a class in itself? Then you could be a caster/crafter, tank/crafter, healer/crafter, etc.

    I'm just not seeing the advantage or need for crafting to be a class by itself.

    After watching some of MJ's videos in some regards I picture a crafter class almost like an engineer putting down traps throwing up palisades and such in a pinch. I see this as a huge strategic advantage because at the very least you could funnel your enemies and at the most CALTROPS!!

  • phobossionphobossion PraguePosts: 56Member Uncommon
    The crafter should have his place on the battlefield, but not in the front line. Instead, he should provide support for the army from behind (in forms of camps where players would rez, heal and whatever). He could also repair siege machinery and stuff like that.
  • BenediktBenedikt PraguePosts: 1,406Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Krullen

    People need to understand there is a huge untapped market for this class. My mum and dad are prime examples. They are 65 and retired. I got them into WoW years ago. My dad loves to go fishing, but not real fishing, he logs into wow and spends half his day fishing and loves it. Sells all his fish on the AH like a kingpin. He can't understand why people pay what they do.

     

    He is a chinese farmer in a big way, but  he does it for the pure fun. He has maxed out every craft and has all the best gear you can make. I tried to get him into pvp but he can't stand all the quick action, its just too fast. He pve's like a champ though.

     

    Both he and mum loved the idea of the CU  pure crafter class. They can level doing what they love and not have to compete with young people's skills that they just don't have.

     

    I told them about no loot drops, all the gear is made by crafters. Fighters need the crafters for gear and the crafters need the fighters for mats or zones. They would even be needed for seiging and front line repairs and keep takes.

    Their eyes lit up,  like a dream come true.

    They have all the time in the world to pump out crafting levels and gear, way more then those of us who work. Which I won't mind one little bit, and they get to play with their kids. (and very likely grandkids)

    It won't be the unemployed with all the time smashing out the levels,  watch out for the retired gamers. This is perfect for them. All you fighters who want your best crew out rvring and not lose your best healer to crafting,  get your folks in to be crafters to pump you full of gear. I have 6 of my direct family all backing this...

    if your dad likes fishing and crafting, tell him to try vanguard it has best fishing and crafting process i ever saw in the game (and maybe he will like diplomacy minigame too)

  • DaizeddDaizedd Salon de ProvencePosts: 142Member
    Originally posted by Benedikt
    Originally posted by Krullen

    People need to understand there is a huge untapped market for this class. My mum and dad are prime examples. They are 65 and retired. I got them into WoW years ago. My dad loves to go fishing, but not real fishing, he logs into wow and spends half his day fishing and loves it. Sells all his fish on the AH like a kingpin. He can't understand why people pay what they do.

     

    He is a chinese farmer in a big way, but  he does it for the pure fun. He has maxed out every craft and has all the best gear you can make. I tried to get him into pvp but he can't stand all the quick action, its just too fast. He pve's like a champ though.

     

    Both he and mum loved the idea of the CU  pure crafter class. They can level doing what they love and not have to compete with young people's skills that they just don't have.

     

    I told them about no loot drops, all the gear is made by crafters. Fighters need the crafters for gear and the crafters need the fighters for mats or zones. They would even be needed for seiging and front line repairs and keep takes.

    Their eyes lit up,  like a dream come true.

    They have all the time in the world to pump out crafting levels and gear, way more then those of us who work. Which I won't mind one little bit, and they get to play with their kids. (and very likely grandkids)

    It won't be the unemployed with all the time smashing out the levels,  watch out for the retired gamers. This is perfect for them. All you fighters who want your best crew out rvring and not lose your best healer to crafting,  get your folks in to be crafters to pump you full of gear. I have 6 of my direct family all backing this...

    if your dad likes fishing and crafting, tell him to try vanguard it has best fishing and crafting process i ever saw in the game (and maybe he will like diplomacy minigame too)

    I thought that game was dead?

    image
  • bill4747bill4747 Lynn, MAPosts: 202Member

    I think many people will enjoy playing a crafter class.

    I assume they will have basic combat skills, just not the uber stuff of the more martial classes.

  • StilerStiler Athens, TNPosts: 599Member

    I have played many mmo's, from the games that actually allowed you to go full out crafting (UO/SWG) to games that allowed you to do it "on the side."

    The problem with making crafting an "on the side" thing is that it takes away from the crafters experience and drastically cuts down on player-interaction that'd driven when you have people that ar ededicated crafting roles.

    In agame where you do crafting on the side along with your normal combat roles, it leads people to feel "forced" to craft  and level up some sort of crafting progression, even if they don't really want to.

    It also forces those who wish to "just craft" not to be able to (because to craft you have to level up, explore hgiher lv area's to gain those resource nodes, etc). So it completely screws over those types of crafter-centric players who don't really want to fight.

    Then as I mentioned, it destroyst he interaction between players. In most games where you had crafting on the side, people will take the crafting profression that most benefits their icharacter (or guild) and thus they make what they need and don' have to interact nearly a smuch with outside crafters (outside of maybe getting mats or such from other gathers, but the AH takes care of that so no interaction there relaly)..

    In games with crafters as a dedicated class, and especially those without an AH (So glad there's no AH in this game) players actually have to interact with crafters. Whi.e they can still have vendors usually, there'll be interaction that comes from this. Merely visting a crafters shop/bazaar while they are there can lead to many different social interactions, from haggling, striking up deals, being offered jobs (IE escorting that crafter to get resources, etc).

    From my expeirnece in both SWg and UO there was a LOT more social expeirence involved beasue of this and it was vastly diferent from game slike WoW and others with crafting on the side.

    A few personal examples:

     

    In SWG (Bloodfin server) there was a very popular crafter named Enott who had his store on Tattoine. He was regarded as the best crafter on the server, he had many people that fed him resources and had access to the highest quality resources (in swg resource qualities affected the crafted goods). He bascially became the "besT" crafter and become known for this.

    He also used this to his advantage, having high prices for his goods, etc.

    Another crafter (just like what can happen in the real world) moved his shop near Enotts shop. He had a grand opening sale with some very good quality gear that he was selling far cheaper then Enotts. A ton of people turned out to it.

    Enott did not like this one bit, in fact he came there, and started to slander the new crafter, saying he exploited, etc.

    In UO I was jsut out exploring the world, came across a crafters house that had a couple of npc vendors at his doors. I stopped by and was browsing his vendors and he was sitting outside his house on his porch (where he had his blacksmithing forge) and he noticed me browsing. So he asked if I found anything or I needed a certain thing. We got to talking and he ended up becoming my "go to" crafter for most of the game after that interaction, giving me discounts on goods and becoming friends.

    That's just a story that won't happen in most other mmo's, where crafters aren't that important and people never interact with them (IE because of thoe AH).

     

  • BowbowDAoCBowbowDAoC Granby, QCPosts: 470Member

    To make it short (thats almost new to me lol), i think crafter class has its place. There is quite many people outthere that enjoys crafting more than fight RvR, its a good thing they'll have a game that has very deep crafting mechanic.

    And i can easily picture quite a few cool things derived from that too.

    image

    Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
    Thurka on WAR

    image

  • binskkibinskki Bourbonnais, ILPosts: 153Member
    I suspect they already have some good ideas about how they are going to balance the crafter class with the others.  And I can't picture a situation where a crafter has no tools at his/her disposal when enemies are around.  I am very interested to see what they have in mind. :)
  • binskkibinskki Bourbonnais, ILPosts: 153Member
    N.B:  I believe they have also said that *all* classes will have some basic crafting ability, although it won't be their strength - it's they play a support role in the crafting system.  So it stands to reason that a crafter class would have some basic combat ability - although they would be in more of a support role in a combat situation.
  • OldskooOldskoo Minneapolis, MNPosts: 189Member
    Originally posted by Krullen

    People need to understand there is a huge untapped market for this class. My mum and dad are prime examples. They are 65 and retired. I got them into WoW years ago. My dad loves to go fishing, but not real fishing, he logs into wow and spends half his day fishing and loves it. Sells all his fish on the AH like a kingpin. He can't understand why people pay what they do.

     

    He is a chinese farmer in a big way, but  he does it for the pure fun. He has maxed out every craft and has all the best gear you can make. I tried to get him into pvp but he can't stand all the quick action, its just too fast. He pve's like a champ though.

     

    Both he and mum loved the idea of the CU  pure crafter class. They can level doing what they love and not have to compete with young people's skills that they just don't have.

     

    I told them about no loot drops, all the gear is made by crafters. Fighters need the crafters for gear and the crafters need the fighters for mats or zones. They would even be needed for seiging and front line repairs and keep takes.

    Their eyes lit up,  like a dream come true.

    They have all the time in the world to pump out crafting levels and gear, way more then those of us who work. Which I won't mind one little bit, and they get to play with their kids. (and very likely grandkids)

    It won't be the unemployed with all the time smashing out the levels,  watch out for the retired gamers. This is perfect for them. All you fighters who want your best crew out rvring and not lose your best healer to crafting,  get your folks in to be crafters to pump you full of gear. I have 6 of my direct family all backing this...

    My wife is going to play a crafter as her main more than likely and if it's fun, I could see it being mine as well. I enjoyed playing a crafter in the UO days and fully well know that I may not be a top player in this game because I won't have the time to play like I did back in the day. As a crafter, the weapons and gear that I make can work for my team when I'm off the battlefield though, so this gives me an opportunity to contribute even when I'm not there and makes this class attractive to me.

    It's true though, we could have our professional fighters also be professional craftsmen like in other games but I hope it doesn't change that way. I like the dedicated crafter class because it gives a special nod to people who want to play a character for one thing and be recognized by our game mates as such. I'm happy there won't be a toon that can "do it all" (or  most of it). It gives different players/characters a chance to shine at their profession without us all being virtually the same character in different wrappers, which is the direction mmo's typically seem to go IMO. Good question!

    image

  • belatucadrosbelatucadros Toronto, ONPosts: 263Member

    I have the same concerns.

    I'm excited by the idea, but I agree - I don't see us running a crafter in our group, unless there are 10 slots. Maybe not even then.

    To me it'll be an "alt", someone we bring out to buff up a keep or outpost as needed. It'd almost be worth a "buffbot" account that has a maxed out crafter I can drag from siege to siege, while still PVPing.

     

    We'll have to see more of what they are planning

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  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,506Member Uncommon

    I say let the crafter build a laser they can mount on their head, I'd let them in my group at that point.

    Seriously give crafters a single powerful weapon only they can fire, put it on a long cool down but give em something.

    Just because they like to craft doesn't mean they can't at least fire a weapon once in a while.

    Bringing a class that can't compete in a competitive RvR game makes no sense.

     

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    I'm extremely excited for the builder concept. Having players on the battlefield that are defenseless yet building us structures will add a lot to gameplay. I picture it being much like Warcraft 1, my little miner out on his own, gathering my ore, when a gang approaches so I send out my guards to fight them off and protect my miner. Ah memories.

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,168Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by meddyck
    I'm not sure it does.This class will play an important role in various siege related things according to Mark. But as anybody who played DAOC, WAR, etc. will tell you, not all of your time in RvR is spent sieging. If you have a crafter in your group in an open field battle, you will be at a big disadvantage against an enemy group full of the other classes.I suppose it is possible crafters will also get weak combat abilities. But if you are going to do that, why not just make crafting like it is in other games including DAOC: something you can train in addition to your regular class rather than a class in itself? Then you could be a caster/crafter, tank/crafter, healer/crafter, etc.I'm just not seeing the advantage or need for crafting to be a class by itself.

    When I started in SWG all I wanted was to be a trader and a crafter....I had little to no combat skills on that character and I had a blast in that game.
    Some people don't have the need to go out and do kill missions the whole time.

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  • gylnnegylnne South Hutchinson, KSPosts: 320Member

    I have been waiting for a game that let's me make a pure crafter for ages that actually does not have to compete with a mob drop to make sales.

    A 100% player drive economy makes the game all the more exciting.

  • gylnnegylnne South Hutchinson, KSPosts: 320Member
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Bringing a class that can't compete in a competitive RvR game makes no sense.

     

    Mark has said crafters will be very important in rvr since they will need to be protected as they build forts, do repairs, etc. on the battlefield.

  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon
    I would definitely play this class.  I wouldn't even enter the battlefield probably either.  I just love having my guildmates bring me materials and I craft them whatever that need/want.  There's just something about knowing my guildmates are marching into battle using things I made to save thier lives and/or kill our enemies :D
  • JaironKalachJaironKalach Muncie, INPosts: 13Member
    Originally posted by belatucadros

    I have the same concerns.

    I'm excited by the idea, but I agree - I don't see us running a crafter in our group, unless there are 10 slots. Maybe not even then.

    To me it'll be an "alt", someone we bring out to buff up a keep or outpost as needed. It'd almost be worth a "buffbot" account that has a maxed out crafter I can drag from siege to siege, while still PVPing.

     

    We'll have to see more of what they are planning

    Here's the cool thing about what he's defining. You won't need an alt or a "buffbot." Because I'll be around. Sure, I won't be in your group out on the front lines. I'll be just a step behind you, building things up so that when you have to fall back, you have a safe place to fall back to. And, the really cool thing is, I'll be being rewarded for provided this to you.  Not in the same way that you are rewarded for those epic fights, but in a way that maeks it even easier for me to support you as the time comes. :-)

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