Camelot Unchained Kickstarter Progress Discussion

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  • professornomosprofessornomos Mankato, MNMember Posts: 67
    Originally posted by Reklaw
     

    The thing is if you have been a forum (all sorts) visitor for a long time and see at what people complain about with games they didn't even invest money into I can fully understand the way the 2 posters reacted above you, don't you?. I don't think that they are against CU, I am even sure they want the game too succeed.

    I personaly feel MJ has set a far too tight timetable up for his game, sorry but I simply refuse to believe he will be able to deliver a full quality MMORPG as promised. I really hope I am wrong, but 2 and a half year from now?? serieusly? If he would have said 4 to 5 years I might have pedged myself.

    I know I know the game is targeted towards a certain niche. And with MMORPG's I know I belong to that minority compared to today's masses. I love the full concept, I alo believe the game has enough room for PVE, perhaps not the type of PVE today's gamers are used too like being told what to do. But I see much enjoyment in what MJ sees as crafting, housing and so much more

    Yet I feel the state he is in with what is currently being shown as tech demo's are similar to what I have seen over the years with game tech demo's heading into a 4 to 6 years of development stage, and this is from company's who didn't need Kickstarters as they are already established gamecompany's and have the money, man power and tech to back them up.

    I always said I do hope MJ would reach his kickstarter target, but I also thought he wouldn't make it due to people who might wanted to pledge might have a long history with the gaming genre. In that I was wrong and this is the type of wrong I am happy about, because I truly hope he might again proof me wrong in actually being able to deliver atleast 75% of his promises for CU.

    Regardless....

    GoodLluck-MJ and those who look forward/pledged to CU and proof me wrong.........

     

    As mentioned before, I dont think that time is the issue.  2.5 years for development of a primarily PvP game really isnt the issue. 

    The issue is more whether or not he can excute a multi-server, non-mix faction PvP sandbox.  Especially when it comes to the economy.

     

    Ultimately, the proof will be in the pudding but I dont think tacking 2 years will matter and MJ knows this.

     

    What he knows and any honest backer knows is that this KS was based on this premise:

    Either MJ has the ability to implement his vision or he doesnt. 

     

    2.5 years is enough to get that.

  • GyrusGyrus Lost City of ZMember UncommonPosts: 2,413
    Originally posted by professornomos

    As mentioned before, I dont think that time is the issue.  2.5 years for development of a primarily PvP game really isnt the issue.  The issue is more whether or not he can excute a multi-server, non-mix faction PvP sandbox.  Especially when it comes to the economy.   Ultimately, the proof will be in the pudding but I dont think tacking 2 years will matter and MJ knows this.   What he knows and any honest backer knows is that this KS was based on this premise: Either MJ has the ability to implement his vision or he doesnt.    2.5 years is enough to get that.

    Nice summary.  Pretty much.

    As I said in another thread - by the time this gets to Beta we will have a pretty fair idea of what is being delivered.

    (Some people still think that games change in a big way during Beta - I disagree - they do change but not that much)

    So by then we will know if CSE can deliver the theoretically fantastic PvP / RvR MMO.

    It's a tough ask for a very tough audience.

    Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  • professornomosprofessornomos Mankato, MNMember Posts: 67
    Originally posted by Gyrus
     

    Nice summary.  Pretty much.

    As I said in another thread - by the time this gets to Beta we will have a pretty fair idea of what is being delivered.

    (Some people still think that games change in a big way during Beta - I disagree - they do change but not that much)

    So by then we will know if CSE can deliver the theoretically fantastic PvP / RvR MMO.

    It's a tough ask for a very tough audience.

     

     

    Definitely dont disagree with anything but wanted to highlight parts that I especially agree with.

     

    I also wanted to point out that while I agree, I have placed my bet that he can pull it off.

     

    Why?  I think its because in general video games aren't really my thing and I've taken a pretty serious break from MMOs.  I played EvE for 6 months 2 years ago then before that I played WoW from release for about 9 months.

    Then I played DAoC from 2003-2004/5?  basically 9 months before WoW went into open beta.

     

    I've only come back to MMOs because I wanted to be on the ground floor of this game.

     

     

     

     

  • GyrusGyrus Lost City of ZMember UncommonPosts: 2,413
    Originally posted by professornomos
    ...   I also wanted to point out that while I agree, I have placed my bet that he can pull it off.   ....

    Hmmm... I'm tempted to take that bet.

    I don't think he can pull it off (although I would be happy to be proved wrong in this case - because if he can make the Veilwalker/Veilstalker thing work that alone would be worth seeing!).  Balancing RvR and PvP is tough - throw crafting and resource gathering in to the mix  too also really makes a unique blend.

    But I base that on my observations that the man has great ideas but seems to flounder when things don't go exactly as he imagined them in his head.  He usually doesn't seem to have any sort of backup or fallback plan.

    I really look forward to seeing how this goes.

    Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  • professornomosprofessornomos Mankato, MNMember Posts: 67
    Originally posted by Gyrus
    Originally posted by professornomos
    ...
      I also wanted to point out that while I agree, I have placed my bet that he can pull it off.   ....

    Hmmm... I'm tempted to take that bet.

    I don't think he can pull it off (although I would be happy to be proved wrong in this case - because if he can make the Veilwalker/Veilstalker thing work that alone would be worth seeing!).  Balancing RvR and PvP is tough - throw crafting and resource gathering in to the mix  too also really makes a unique blend.

    But I base that on my observations that the man has great ideas but seems to flounder when things don't go exactly as he imagined them in his head.  He usually doesn't seem to have any sort of backup or fallback plan.

    I really look forward to seeing how this goes.

     

     

    How bout this Gentleman's wager: 

    I will give you one of my free copies of the game from my tier in order for you to play it and test it out. 

    If  you do at least 3 blogs on your experience and then if you honestly cant stand it, I will send you an electronic giftcard to amazon for 25$.  If you like it you do the same to me

     

     

  • GyrusGyrus Lost City of ZMember UncommonPosts: 2,413
    Originally posted by professornomos
    Originally posted by Gyrus
    Originally posted by professornomos
    ...
      I also wanted to point out that while I agree, I have placed my bet that he can pull it off.   ....

    Hmmm... I'm tempted to take that bet.

    I don't think he can pull it off (although I would be happy to be proved wrong in this case - because if he can make the Veilwalker/Veilstalker thing work that alone would be worth seeing!).  Balancing RvR and PvP is tough - throw crafting and resource gathering in to the mix  too also really makes a unique blend.

    But I base that on my observations that the man has great ideas but seems to flounder when things don't go exactly as he imagined them in his head.  He usually doesn't seem to have any sort of backup or fallback plan.

    I really look forward to seeing how this goes.

     

     

    How bout this Gentleman's wager: 

    I will give you one of my free copies of the game from my tier in order for you to play it and test it out. 

    If  you do at least 3 blogs on your experience and then if you honestly cant stand it, I will send you an electronic giftcard to amazon for 25$.  If you like it you do the same to me

     

     

    I thank you for your offer - but i cannot accept a free copy as it simply wouldn't be fair.  Also I cannot resonably say (due to RL) what my commitments will be like in two years...

    However... I will accept the wager in part.

    When the game releases - 3 months later (to give it time to resolve launch issues) - I will do a trial (if available - bound to be buddy keys huh?) and I will give it a fair and honest review.   Swollowing pride and eating crow as / if required. 

    There doesn't need to be money involved - although if we are both still around we can discuss that again closer to the time.

    (I might want a free Sub to CU!)

    How's that?

    Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  • professornomosprofessornomos Mankato, MNMember Posts: 67
    Originally posted by Gyrus
     

    I thank you for your offer - but i cannot accept a free copy as it simply wouldn't be fair.  Also I cannot resonably say (due to RL) what my commitments will be like in two years...

    However... I will accept the wager in part.

    When the game releases - 3 months later (to give it time to resolve launch issues) - I will do a trial (if available - bound to be buddy keys huh?) and I will give it a fair and honest review.   Swollowing pride and eating crow as / if required. 

    There doesn't need to be money involved - although if we are both still around we can discuss that again closer to the time.

    (I might want a free Sub to CU!)

    How's that?

    Works for me.  I am sure i will be haunting these forums over the next two years.

     

    My tier includes "optional" Internal Testing.  Thus I will be sure to post what ever I can that is not covered by NDA

  • KappenWizKappenWiz Pittsburgh, PAMember UncommonPosts: 162
    Originally posted by professornomos
    Originally posted by Gyrus
     

    I thank you for your offer - but i cannot accept a free copy as it simply wouldn't be fair.  Also I cannot resonably say (due to RL) what my commitments will be like in two years...

    However... I will accept the wager in part.

    When the game releases - 3 months later (to give it time to resolve launch issues) - I will do a trial (if available - bound to be buddy keys huh?) and I will give it a fair and honest review.   Swollowing pride and eating crow as / if required. 

    There doesn't need to be money involved - although if we are both still around we can discuss that again closer to the time.

    (I might want a free Sub to CU!)

    How's that?

    Works for me.  I am sure i will be haunting these forums over the next two years.

     

    My tier includes "optional" Internal Testing.  Thus I will be sure to post what ever I can that is not covered by NDA

    This is interesting, I hope I remember to see how this turns out.

  • GyrusGyrus Lost City of ZMember UncommonPosts: 2,413
    Originally posted by KappenWiz
    ...

    This is interesting, I hope I remember to see how this turns out.

    Well, really it's nothing we wouldn't have done anyway.

    It's really hard to judge any game based on ideas and concept art.  Some ideas might not work - and some things might develop that work well.

    A really good example is Pirates of the Burning Sea (another PvP game) - the orignial concept was nothing like the final game.  The whole Travel Map & instanced play was not the idea but way back (about two - three years prior to release) the Dev team changed to the current format to solve a number of problems.  As it turned out that was a mistake and created new problems of its own.

    Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownMember UncommonPosts: 3,452
    I'm not sure mindless gloating is the way to rid yourself of "haters", in fact attitudes like you are showing probably account for why CU attracted them in the first place.
  • More likely attitudes like that arose from the hater spam.
  • professornomosprofessornomos Mankato, MNMember Posts: 67
    which came first the hater or the spam?

    what i will note is that every active forum has issues with repeated thread spam when news breaks.


    "haters" aren't really unique to these boards or the MMO industry but its the way the MMO genre works to over promise and often under deliver
  • TimEisenTimEisen Columnist Member RarePosts: 2,972
    I used to role-play a Warrior Priest now I role-play a writer.
    "Basically if a Ninja Turtle used it, or close to it, I like it."
  • ReklawReklaw Am.Member UncommonPosts: 6,495
    Originally posted by professornomos
     

    As mentioned before, I dont think that time is the issue.  2.5 years for development of a primarily PvP game really isnt the issue. 

    The issue is more whether or not he can excute a multi-server, non-mix faction PvP sandbox.  Especially when it comes to the economy.

     

    Ultimately, the proof will be in the pudding but I dont think tacking 2 years will matter and MJ knows this.

     

    What he knows and any honest backer knows is that this KS was based on this premise:

    Either MJ has the ability to implement his vision or he doesnt. 

     

    2.5 years is enough to get that.

     As said I really hope CU will proof me wrong and that most of these early promises do get made into the game, but for now I doubt it. that's just me.....

  • professornomosprofessornomos Mankato, MNMember Posts: 67
    maybe this is just me but i don't see MJ as making many promises. He's laid out a vision for a game that attempts to not throw the baby out with the bath water.

    part of what he's doing is attempting to undo the last 8+ years of PvE wonderland or bust design philosphy by emphasizing player interaction through RvR, Buidling and Economy.


    However what he's doing will be tough because only EvE has been successful in creating multiple mini games that let crafters/miners get full experiences without having too kill people.

    MJ is smart but he's not omnisecent. however what you "youngsters" haven't figured out yet is that MJ does not having left ot prove.   Like many successful people, MJ likely no longer has the same pride issues he once had in his youth (which were fairly legendary if scuttlebutt was to be believed).

    What this means for CU is two fold, 1) he no longer has to hold on to his ideas just because they were his ideas 2) he doesnt have too pander too the mob to achieve personal validation.
  • UOloverUOlover Member UncommonPosts: 337
    Time for all these people who couldn't use their credit card and who were supposedly waiting for the paypal to step up
  • MkilbrideMkilbride Hooksett, NHMember UncommonPosts: 642

    Paypal is working as far as I can tell.

     

    MJ said that something was "Wrong with it" before he left the other day though. Not sure what - money is still coming in.

    Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

  • meddyckmeddyck USAMember UncommonPosts: 1,217
    I think it would almost be a good thing if PayPal donations aren't enough to reach The Depths goal. There's a lot of work that needs to be done on the core game first. Get that all done and the game released. Then they could start working on The Depths after launch and have it be the first major content patch a few months later. That was pretty much what happened in DAOC for that matter with DF.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • TigsKCTigsKC Kansas City, MOMember UncommonPosts: 186
    Originally posted by meddyck
    I think it would almost be a good thing if PayPal donations aren't enough to reach The Depths goal. There's a lot of work that needs to be done on the core game first. Get that all done and the game released. Then they could start working on The Depths after launch and have it be the first major content patch a few months later. That was pretty much what happened in DAOC for that matter with DF.

     

    While I still hope CSE takes in a sizable haul through PayPal and meets this goal and beyond, I agree completely. The Depths is best suited as a first no-cost DLC once the core RvR and the crafting/building systems are stabilized.

  • SpeelySpeely Seattle, WAMember CommonPosts: 861
    Originally posted by TigsKC
    Originally posted by meddyck
    I think it would almost be a good thing if PayPal donations aren't enough to reach The Depths goal. There's a lot of work that needs to be done on the core game first. Get that all done and the game released. Then they could start working on The Depths after launch and have it be the first major content patch a few months later. That was pretty much what happened in DAOC for that matter with DF.

     

    While I still hope CSE takes in a sizable haul through PayPal and meets this goal and beyond, I agree completely. The Depths is best suited as a first no-cost DLC once the core RvR and the crafting/building systems are stabilized.

    Agreed. What a cool thing to look forward to while we learn the basic RvR and Crafting of the game. We'll all be "leveled" up and stuff, too.

  • ringdanyringdany New York, NYMember Posts: 122

    is it ready yet?

    when will it be ready?

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