Camelot Unchained Kickstarter Progress Discussion

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  • skyexileskyexile MelbourneMember CommonPosts: 692

    oh right :P

    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • nf4mousnf4mous Arcadia, CAMember Posts: 45
    Originally posted by Gyrus
    Originally posted by nf4mous
    Originally posted by Gyrus

      EDIT: There is one last possibility I forgot to mention: CSE might still cancel the Kickstarter... possibly to try to save face if it looks certain to fail?  The fallout would be... nuclear.  I doubt even the fans would tolerate that? EDITx2: If it comes in really close MJ would actually be better off to sneak in as a 'backer' and take up the remaining $10000 pledges himself... (assuming he wanted to proceed of course!)... and then hope no-one ever finds out... because that would really be bad press.

     

    quoted for hilarity and conspiracy theories.

    was never a doubt for most of us that this would fund.  #credibility.

    If there was "never a doubt" - then why all the spam etc?

    More than a few people had a doubt.

     

    But more important than that... why didn't you quote the rest of my post?  You know... for context and all that?

    *snip*

    people excited about the game making a post or two isn't spamming.  get real.  i've seen it for all KS campaigns.

    context? a quick glance at your post history shows you routinely conjure conspiracy theories, and target jacobs for "not knowing what he's doing". LoL what? thanks for more laughs.

  • GyrusGyrus Lost City of ZMember UncommonPosts: 2,413
    Originally posted by nf4mous
    Originally posted by Gyrus
    Originally posted by nf4mous
    Originally posted by Gyrus

      EDIT: There is one last possibility I forgot to mention: CSE might still cancel the Kickstarter... possibly to try to save face if it looks certain to fail?  The fallout would be... nuclear.  I doubt even the fans would tolerate that? EDITx2: If it comes in really close MJ would actually be better off to sneak in as a 'backer' and take up the remaining $10000 pledges himself... (assuming he wanted to proceed of course!)... and then hope no-one ever finds out... because that would really be bad press.

     

    quoted for hilarity and conspiracy theories.

    was never a doubt for most of us that this would fund.  #credibility.

    If there was "never a doubt" - then why all the spam etc?

    More than a few people had a doubt.

     

    But more important than that... why didn't you quote the rest of my post?  You know... for context and all that?

    *snip*

    people excited about the game making a post or two isn't spamming.  get real.  i've seen it for all KS campaigns.

    context? a quick glance at your post history shows you routinely conjure conspiracy theories, and target jacobs for "not knowing what he's doing". LoL what? thanks for more laughs.

    Well, for the record, I don't think Mark Jacobs is a great game designer.  He is an 'ideas man' IMHO.

    Am I right or wrong?  Well, in two and a half years I guess we'll know wont we?

     

    TBH right now though I actually feel a little bit sorry for Mark Jacobs.

    Why?

    Because he has 'promised' so so much.  To get this through he has already sold large parts of his game:

    15 Islands

    10 Inns

    13 "Llighthouses"

    21 Houses on Mountains

    3 Naming rights on structures

    18 Custom Built houses

    Hundreds of statues in Founders Row.  Yeah, hundreds.

    Internal testing for nearly 700 people

    Alpha testing for nearly 700 more (making 1400 for alpha testing alone)

    the numbers grow in the Betas - someone should do a tally...

     

    and the average pledge is over $150 per pledge.  At that amount of money you can bet a number of people will have a real sense of entitlement.... these people have paid thousands of dollars in some cases... you can bet some will want things to be done their way.

    And sometime in the next 2 years you can bet Mark Jacobs is going to have to compromise - how do you reckon that will go?

    With several thousand absolutely rabid fans who have already paid for the game he 'promised'?

    He had better be a far better designer than I give him credit for - because otherwise this is going to get really ugly.

    Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  • kylverkylver c, KYMember UncommonPosts: 1,344
    Originally posted by Gyrus. Well, for the record, I don't think Mark Jacobs is a great game designer.  He is an 'ideas man' IMHO. Am I right or wrong?  Well, in two and a half years I guess we'll know wont we?   TBH right now though I actually feel a little bit sorry for Mark Jacobs. Why? Because he has 'promised' so so much.  To get this through he has already sold large parts of his game: 15 Islands 10 Inns 13 "Llighthouses" 21 Houses on Mountains 3 Naming rights on structures 18 Custom Built houses Hundreds of statues in Founders Row.  Yeah, hundreds. Internal testing for nearly 700 people Alpha testing for nearly 700 more (making 1400 for alpha testing alone) the numbers grow in the Betas - someone should do a tally...   and the average pledge is over $150 per pledge.  At that amount of money you can bet a number of people will have a real sense of entitlement.... these people have paid thousands of dollars in some cases... you can bet some will want things to be done their way. And sometime in the next 2 years you can bet Mark Jacobs is going to have to compromise - how do you reckon that will go? With several thousand absolutely rabid fans who have already paid for the game he 'promised'? He had better be a far better designer than I give him credit for - because otherwise this is going to get really ugly.

    +1

    This sums it up perfectly. Apparently he never learned the "under-promise, over-deliver" rule in product development.

    Anybody want to wager on how far along in the development cycle he gets before the "I want my money back" posts start?

     

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKMember LegendaryPosts: 16,694

    A lot of posts in here are not relevant to the actual kick starter progress anymore, its come down to bickering - I know I am stating the obvious.

    Anyway  2.2 and counting!

  • MellozMelloz Charlotte, NCMember Posts: 26
    I'm backer and agree there's going to be a serious amount of entitlement among some backers. When CSE has to make a call on contentious design issues, there is going to be tons of crying. I think anyone that's been around MMOs for a while knows that though.
  • GyrusGyrus Lost City of ZMember UncommonPosts: 2,413
    Originally posted by nf4mous
    Originally posted by Gyrus
    ...
    [mod edit]

    It's got nothing to do with whether the promises listed are aesthetic or not... what it has to do with is that it already limits the flexibility he has when designing the game.

    Don't believe me?  Grab some paper and 'design a world' - but you MUST include all the things in the sold list above.   Sure you could just put them all on the edge of the map and say "done!" but would your paying customers accept that?

    Edit : And you have to make space for 30 Inns,  10 in each realm.  Why?  The Inn is to go in the realm of the player's choice.  Nothing to say all 10 backers wont choose the same realm.  Maybe not likely - but not impossible either.

    Not to mention the difficulty he will have with players wanting plots in specific areas and not getting them... you know - like a Viking player finding his plot is closer to Arthurian and TDD realms.

     

    Oh, and we shouldn't talk about conspiracy theories here... I think they're watching me....which means now they are watching YOU too.

    Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshMember RarePosts: 6,340
    Originally posted by Melloz
    I'm backer and agree there's going to be a serious amount of entitlement among some backers. When CSE has to make a call on contentious design issues, there is going to be tons of crying. I think anyone that's been around MMOs for a while knows that though.

    Yeah, that seems to be one of the major cons to funding through Kickstarter to help subsidize your financial risk instead of getting funding through the normal channels. You create an army filled with hopes and expectations not just based on what the devs have said, but also based on this perfect picture they have created in their own heads. I imagine the pressure is going to be pretty intense as this one moves forward.

     

    I think single player games are less prone to extreme criticism in general because there is a smaller commitment to them than there is with MMORPGs, but attempting to land an MMORPG through Kickstarter that many people are expecting to play for years (the average buyer paid ~$160 for this one) is likely going to be harrowing. Entitlement and expectations are going to be enormous for this one, their last saving grace.

  • morbuskabismorbuskabis RodonMember Posts: 290

    How about we wait till the game is finished and then every one can say "I toled you so!" It's so much easier to predict the future when its past.

    Maybe it works out the way MJ and the com whants it maybe not so much. We will see.

    image -Massive-Industries- Heavy Duty

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYMember UncommonPosts: 1,967

    Congrats on the backing everyone! The game isn't for me, but I am glad you PvPers are finally getting something good. Now if only I could get a good sandbox PVE game with amazing crafting. I am anxious for The Repopulation, but I am not getting my hopes up...

     

     

  • taus01taus01 MunichMember Posts: 1,352
    Originally posted by Melloz
    I'm backer and agree there's going to be a serious amount of entitlement among some backers. When CSE has to make a call on contentious design issues, there is going to be tons of crying. I think anyone that's been around MMOs for a while knows that though.

    879 backers $150-$250

    2101 backers $250 - $500

    526 backers $500 - $10000

    ____________________________

    3506 backers $150+

    (a quarter of all backers)

    I sure don't want to be in MJ's shoes dealing with this crowd when the time comes to make tough decisions and we all know they will come sooner or later.

    ...scary

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

    image
  • ZinzanZinzan NorthMember UncommonPosts: 1,351
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by Melloz
    I'm backer and agree there's going to be a serious amount of entitlement among some backers. When CSE has to make a call on contentious design issues, there is going to be tons of crying. I think anyone that's been around MMOs for a while knows that though.

    879 backers $150-$250

    2101 backers $250 - $500

    526 backers $500 - $10000

    ____________________________

    3506 backers $150+

    (a quarter of all backers)

    I sure don't want to be in MJ's shoes dealing with this crowd when the time comes to make tough decisions and we all know they will come sooner or later.

    ...scary

    I pledged but i won't bother with the official forums much when they arrive, I have had a skinful of those backers who have done their best to destroy this games reputation before it even funded. Without the temperance of some of the more sane forumites it'll just be a sycophantic love in.

    Be nice to watch it progress now, but I'm done with the pointless drama.

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • JayarisJayaris InvercargillMember Posts: 308
    I'm underwhelmed by the PayPal donations, given all the talk about Europeans waiting in the wings. It looks like most adults really do have debit/credit cards.

    Hi

  • morbuskabismorbuskabis RodonMember Posts: 290


    Originally posted by Jayaris
    I'm underwhelmed by the PayPal donations, given all the talk about Europeans waiting in the wings. It looks like most adults really do have debit/credit cards.

    Give it time. Ppl are coming home from work now...

    image -Massive-Industries- Heavy Duty

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAMember Posts: 7,928
    KS is OVER NICE JOB!:)

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • tenfoldedmighttenfoldedmight malmoMember Posts: 54
    Originally posted by Jayaris
    I'm underwhelmed by the PayPal donations, given all the talk about Europeans waiting in the wings. It looks like most adults really do have debit/credit cards.

    Yeah as I've said before, pretty much everyone in Europe has the possibility to pay over internet. Most just don't like credit cards in the real sence that you shop for money you don't have. I'd say everyone have a VISA or equal debit card that works to buy things all over the world oknp

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COMember UncommonPosts: 3,292
    Congrats!

    image


    image

  • DocmanduDocmandu AntwerpMember UncommonPosts: 61
    Originally posted by tenfoldedmight
    Originally posted by Jayaris
    I'm underwhelmed by the PayPal donations, given all the talk about Europeans waiting in the wings. It looks like most adults really do have debit/credit cards.

    Yeah as I've said before, pretty much everyone in Europe has the possibility to pay over internet. Most just don't like credit cards in the real sence that you shop for money you don't have. I'd say everyone have a VISA or equal debit card that works to buy things all over the world oknp

    Pretty much.. only reason I have a credit card is to buy stuff online. Never use it anywhere else, use a normal bank card (debit card)  for payments inside my country and when going abroad, there's the Maestro option which allows you to use your bank card in other countries.

    It's usually a better idea not to spend money you don't have :-)

  • JacobinJacobin Toronto, ONMember UncommonPosts: 954
    Originally posted by Gyrus
    It's got nothing to do with whether the promises listed are aesthetic or not... what it has to do with is that it already limits the flexibility he has when designing the game. Don't believe me?  Grab some paper and 'design a world' - but you MUST include all the things in the sold list above.   Sure you could just put them all on the edge of the map and say "done!" but would your paying customers accept that? Edit : And you have to make space for 30 Inns,  10 in each realm.  Why?  The Inn is to go in the realm of the player's choice.  Nothing to say all 10 backers wont choose the same realm.  Maybe not likely - but not impossible either. Not to mention the difficulty he will have with players wanting plots in specific areas and not getting them... you know - like a Viking player finding his plot is closer to Arthurian and TDD realms.


    Sure its going to be a complex project and MJ will undoubtably have to make calls that a few people won`t like.

    Whats your alternative? Not design a game that clearly people want and are passionate about?

    Designing 3 cities with the above specifications is a minor problem in the big picture.

  • RocketeerRocketeer Member UncommonPosts: 1,303
    Originally posted by Gyrus
    Originally posted by nf4mous
    Originally posted by Gyrus
    ...
    [mod edit]

    It's got nothing to do with whether the promises listed are aesthetic or not... what it has to do with is that it already limits the flexibility he has when designing the game.

    Don't believe me?  Grab some paper and 'design a world' - but you MUST include all the things in the sold list above.   Sure you could just put them all on the edge of the map and say "done!" but would your paying customers accept that?

    Edit : And you have to make space for 30 Inns,  10 in each realm.  Why?  The Inn is to go in the realm of the player's choice.  Nothing to say all 10 backers wont choose the same realm.  Maybe not likely - but not impossible either.

    Not to mention the difficulty he will have with players wanting plots in specific areas and not getting them... you know - like a Viking player finding his plot is closer to Arthurian and TDD realms.

     

    Oh, and we shouldn't talk about conspiracy theories here... I think they're watching me....which means now they are watching YOU too.

    See, the problem with talking about things you have not properly investigated is, you look stupid doing so.

    The part you missed is that its a lighthouse/mountainhome/whatever on a server and realm of your choice. So for completeness sake do that pseudo math again with a US/EU/Oceanic server as a absolute min. 3 Inns per realm, how horrible.

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Member UncommonPosts: 6,495
    Originally posted by nf4mous
    Originally posted by Gyrus
    Originally posted by nf4mous
    Originally posted by Gyrus
    Originally posted by nf4mous
    Originally posted by Gyrus

      EDIT: There is one last possibility I forgot to mention: CSE might still cancel the Kickstarter... possibly to try to save face if it looks certain to fail?  The fallout would be... nuclear.  I doubt even the fans would tolerate that? EDITx2: If it comes in really close MJ would actually be better off to sneak in as a 'backer' and take up the remaining $10000 pledges himself... (assuming he wanted to proceed of course!)... and then hope no-one ever finds out... because that would really be bad press.

     

    quoted for hilarity and conspiracy theories.

    was never a doubt for most of us that this would fund.  #credibility.

    If there was "never a doubt" - then why all the spam etc?

    More than a few people had a doubt.

     

    But more important than that... why didn't you quote the rest of my post?  You know... for context and all that?

    *snip*

    people excited about the game making a post or two isn't spamming.  get real.  i've seen it for all KS campaigns.

    context? a quick glance at your post history shows you routinely conjure conspiracy theories, and target jacobs for "not knowing what he's doing". LoL what? thanks for more laughs.

    Well, for the record, I don't think Mark Jacobs is a great game designer.  He is an 'ideas man' IMHO.

    Am I right or wrong?  Well, in two and a half years I guess we'll know wont we?

     

    TBH right now though I actually feel a little bit sorry for Mark Jacobs.

    Why?

    Because he has 'promised' so so much.  To get this through he has already sold large parts of his game:

    15 Islands

    10 Inns

    13 "Llighthouses"

    21 Houses on Mountains

    3 Naming rights on structures

    18 Custom Built houses

    Hundreds of statues in Founders Row.  Yeah, hundreds.

    Internal testing for nearly 700 people

    Alpha testing for nearly 700 more (making 1400 for alpha testing alone)

    the numbers grow in the Betas - someone should do a tally...

     

    and the average pledge is over $150 per pledge.  At that amount of money you can bet a number of people will have a real sense of entitlement.... these people have paid thousands of dollars in some cases... you can bet some will want things to be done their way.

    And sometime in the next 2 years you can bet Mark Jacobs is going to have to compromise - how do you reckon that will go?

    With several thousand absolutely rabid fans who have already paid for the game he 'promised'?

    He had better be a far better designer than I give him credit for - because otherwise this is going to get really ugly.

    still shows you don't have a clue what jacobs or the majority of CU fans represent. but uh, great fans being promised aesthetic rewards that don't effect gameplay whatsoever is surely a major concern.   no.

    i'd suggest you just stick to conjuring more conspiracy theories than analyzing anything related to this game.

    The thing is if you have been a forum (all sorts) visitor for a long time and see at what people complain about with games they didn't even invest money into I can fully understand the way the 2 posters reacted above you, don't you?. I don't think that they are against CU, I am even sure they want the game too succeed.

    I personaly feel MJ has set a far too tight timetable up for his game, sorry but I simply refuse to believe he will be able to deliver a full quality MMORPG as promised. I really hope I am wrong, but 2 and a half year from now?? serieusly? If he would have said 4 to 5 years I might have pedged myself.

    I know I know the game is targeted towards a certain niche. And with MMORPG's I know I belong to that minority compared to today's masses. I love the full concept, I alo believe the game has enough room for PVE, perhaps not the type of PVE today's gamers are used too like being told what to do. But I see much enjoyment in what MJ sees as crafting, housing and so much more

    Yet I feel the state he is in with what is currently being shown as tech demo's are similar to what I have seen over the years with game tech demo's heading into a 4 to 6 years of development stage, and this is from company's who didn't need Kickstarters as they are already established gamecompany's and have the money, man power and tech to back them up.

    I always said I do hope MJ would reach his kickstarter target, but I also thought he wouldn't make it due to people who might wanted to pledge might have a long history with the gaming genre. In that I was wrong and this is the type of wrong I am happy about, because I truly hope he might again proof me wrong in actually being able to deliver atleast 75% of his promises for CU.

    Regardless....

    GoodLluck-MJ and those who look forward/pledged to CU and proof me wrong.........

  • SmoeySmoey CambridgeMember UncommonPosts: 577

    I started low and ended up (some how) on $75 which isn't too much I guess but it provides me with everything that I wanted, providing the game does launch.

     

     

    (\ /) ?
    ( . .)
    c('')('')

  • wutaewutae athensMember UncommonPosts: 74

    out of 5 years of development almost 4 years are purely for pve content, dont forget that.

    on the other hand about houses, i agree with u all, but why do u care? safezone houses no matter what he does will never ever ever affect you as a non custom-house owner. I was thinking the same things as u guys, but after a while i realised that why the hell do i care? It is his job to fix such problems and i bet he will, and no matter what he does it will NOT affect me, because all of these are SAFE ZONE, means they dont affect the balance of the game at all.

    The tip for
    The win is
    cooperation.

  • redcappredcapp brook, NYMember Posts: 722

    PayPal donations are already doing quite well. 

     

    http://camelotunchained.com/en/donate/

     

    Stretch goals inc!

  • professornomosprofessornomos Mankato, MNMember Posts: 67
    Originally posted by Gyrus

    Well, for the record, I don't think Mark Jacobs is a great game designer.  He is an 'ideas man' IMHO. Am I right or wrong?  Well, in two and a half years I guess we'll know wont we?   TBH right now though I actually feel a little bit sorry for Mark Jacobs. Why? Because he has 'promised' so so much.  To get this through he has already sold large parts of his game:
    and the average pledge is over $150 per pledge.  At that amount of money you can bet a number of people will have a real sense of entitlement.... these people have paid thousands of dollars in some cases... you can bet some will want things to be done their way. And sometime in the next 2 years you can bet Mark Jacobs is going to have to compromise - how do you reckon that will go? With several thousand absolutely rabid fans who have already paid for the game he 'promised'? He had better be a far better designer than I give him credit for - because otherwise this is going to get really ugly.

    As one of the people who dropped a large sum on this game, I both agree and disagree with your sentiment.

    I think you're over stating what MJ was actually promising but likely not Understating how much misunderstanding there is about CU and what "alpha" is really like.   Too many people on the KS are talking about CU like its coming out tomorrow. 

     

    Maybe that's MJ's fault but I really think its more the fact that too many people dont really understand that this game has a lot of work to polish off. 

     

    I personally think too many people are making too much of the "no Pve Progression" aspect of CU.  Sure no PvE makes it easier on the dev team but making a good "pvp" game arguably takes more work because it requires depth rather than flash. 

     

    CU will rise and fall on the back of how well its combat system interacts with its building/crafting/economy.

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