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CoX peak numbers Jack Emmert quote

Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon

"At our peak, we had 180,000 subscribers" from an article on GameFront.

I must admit I am shocked, that seems very low. For it's peak. I would have thought thats more of what they had towards the end there!

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Comments

  • HighMarshalHighMarshal Huntsville, ALPosts: 287Member Uncommon
    HE hasn't been anywhere near CoX for several years, so I doubt he has nay idea how many players were there near the end.
  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by HighMarshal
    HE hasn't been anywhere near CoX for several years, so I doubt he has nay idea how many players were there near the end.

    Right, but do you really think it was MORE popular at the end than it was in the beginning? I suppose it's possible but doubtful.

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  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon

    For when Cryptic was running CoX? Totally believable. Most likely when City of Villains released.


    He also said a while back that CoX would fluctuate between 100,000 and 150,000 constantly. It would stay near 100,000 then jump up to around 150,000 when a new Issue was released then slide back down to 100,000.

  • lugallugal Escondido, CAPosts: 636Member Uncommon
    For the era that game came out in, those are solid numbers. Do not measure that game against modern expectations.

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    The reviewer has a mishapen head
    Which means his opinion is skewed
    ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    For when Cryptic was running CoX? Totally believable. Most likely when City of Villains released.


    He also said a while back that CoX would fluctuate between 100,000 and 150,000 constantly. It would stay near 100,000 then jump up to around 150,000 when a new Issue was released then slide back down to 100,000.

    I just always figured at it's peak it might have been closer to 500k. I think I need to re-evaluate what a healthy MMO population is!

    image
  • LinnaLinna NijmegenPosts: 387Member
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    For when Cryptic was running CoX? Totally believable. Most likely when City of Villains released.


    He also said a while back that CoX would fluctuate between 100,000 and 150,000 constantly. It would stay near 100,000 then jump up to around 150,000 when a new Issue was released then slide back down to 100,000.

    I just always figured at it's peak it might have been closer to 500k. I think I need to re-evaluate what a healthy MMO population is!

    Like a previous poster already said, this WAS considered a very healthy MMO population. When COH was released, EQ1 was still considered an anomalous monster with it's 500K subs. SWG with its 220K was a game with a larger than average subscription base.

    This is not to say those games made no profit however. MMO's have since become more mainstream AND a lot more expensive to make (partly due to adding things like voice-overs and cutscenes), so for new games a lot more box sales are needed to break even and/or make a profit. And that, basically,  is what determines what is a healthy population: enough people to reach and maintain those magical black figures.

  • alakramalakram malagaPosts: 2,223Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fendel84M

    "At our peak, we had 180,000 subscribers" from an article on GameFront.

    I must admit I am shocked, that seems very low. For it's peak. I would have thought thats more of what they had towards the end there!

    180,000 * 15 $ = 2,700,000 $ per month.

    Thats loads of money.

    100,000 * 15 $ = 1,500,000 $ per month

    Still loads of money.

    -=AlaKraM=-
    Don't fight against poverty, fight against greed.
    My Lord of the Rings Gallery

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by alakram
    Originally posted by Fendel84M "At our peak, we had 180,000 subscribers" from an article on GameFront. I must admit I am shocked, that seems very low. For it's peak. I would have thought thats more of what they had towards the end there!
    180,000 * 15 $ = 2,700,000 $ per month.

    Thats loads of money.

    100,000 * 15 $ = 1,500,000 $ per month

    Still loads of money.



    Not really.


    How much did ongoing maintenance cost? How much did development of the Issues cost? The expansions? Advertising? Server upkeep? Customer service?


    When bills like that pile up $1.5 million isnt quite "loads of money" anymore.

  • OmaliOmali MMO Business Correspondent Orchard Park, NYPosts: 1,114Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by alakram

    Originally posted by Fendel84M "At our peak, we had 180,000 subscribers" from an article on GameFront. I must admit I am shocked, that seems very low. For it's peak. I would have thought thats more of what they had towards the end there!
    180,000 * 15 $ = 2,700,000 $ per month.

     

    Thats loads of money.

    100,000 * 15 $ = 1,500,000 $ per month

    Still loads of money.


    Not really.

     


    How much did ongoing maintenance cost? How much did development of the Issues cost? The expansions? Advertising? Server upkeep? Customer service?


    When bills like that pile up $1.5 million isnt quite "loads of money" anymore.

    From what little we've managed to get out of NCSoft, it looks like City of Heroes was profitable (it was pretty stable at about $2.4 million per quarter if I'm remembering correctly) but Paragon Studios was eating up that profit and then some with a couple other mismanaged projects. NCSoft hasn't commented on City of Heroes speciifically, but they did explicitly state that Paragon Studios was not making a profit when it was shut down, and I have a feeling that these extra projects have some blame in it.

    Check out my monthly column on MMORPG.com.

    image

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,473Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    For when Cryptic was running CoX? Totally believable. Most likely when City of Villains released.


    He also said a while back that CoX would fluctuate between 100,000 and 150,000 constantly. It would stay near 100,000 then jump up to around 150,000 when a new Issue was released then slide back down to 100,000.

    I just always figured at it's peak it might have been closer to 500k. I think I need to re-evaluate what a healthy MMO population is!

     Pre wow, it was good numbers.  Those are subs after the 30 day trial.  It also held numbers for a long time as the game was unique.  It's perhaps my favorite mmorpg of all time and had some great features.

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Omali
    Originally posted by Xiaoki   Originally posted by alakram Originally posted by Fendel84M "At our peak, we had 180,000 subscribers" from an article on GameFront. I must admit I am shocked, that seems very low. For it's peak. I would have thought thats more of what they had towards the end there!
    180,000 * 15 $ = 2,700,000 $ per month.   Thats loads of money. 100,000 * 15 $ = 1,500,000 $ per month Still loads of money.
    Not really.   How much did ongoing maintenance cost? How much did development of the Issues cost? The expansions? Advertising? Server upkeep? Customer service? When bills like that pile up $1.5 million isnt quite "loads of money" anymore.
    From what little we've managed to get out of NCSoft, it looks like City of Heroes was profitable (it was pretty stable at about $2.4 million per quarter if I'm remembering correctly) but Paragon Studios was eating up that profit and then some with a couple other mismanaged projects. NCSoft hasn't commented on City of Heroes speciifically, but they did explicitly state that Paragon Studios was not making a profit when it was shut down, and I have a feeling that these extra projects have some blame in it.

    Mismanaged and cancelled projects? What projects?


    Outside of upkeep and Issues the only thing that Paragon actually developed was Going Rogue.


    They tried to get funding for CoH2 but NCSoft turned them down.

  • therain93therain93 Winthrop, MAPosts: 2,039Member
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    For when Cryptic was running CoX? Totally believable. Most likely when City of Villains released.


    He also said a while back that CoX would fluctuate between 100,000 and 150,000 constantly. It would stay near 100,000 then jump up to around 150,000 when a new Issue was released then slide back down to 100,000.

    I just always figured at it's peak it might have been closer to 500k. I think I need to re-evaluate what a healthy MMO population is!

    No way.  As much as I loved the game, no way did it ever touch that. 300k was enviable pre-wow (i.e. star wars galaxies territory), but 150ish was very much respectable (again, if you never aspired to wow numbers).

  • therain93therain93 Winthrop, MAPosts: 2,039Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by Omali

    Originally posted by Xiaoki  

    Originally posted by alakram

    Originally posted by Fendel84M "At our peak, we had 180,000 subscribers" from an article on GameFront. I must admit I am shocked, that seems very low. For it's peak. I would have thought thats more of what they had towards the end there!
    180,000 * 15 $ = 2,700,000 $ per month.   Thats loads of money. 100,000 * 15 $ = 1,500,000 $ per month Still loads of money.
    Not really.   How much did ongoing maintenance cost? How much did development of the Issues cost? The expansions? Advertising? Server upkeep? Customer service? When bills like that pile up $1.5 million isnt quite "loads of money" anymore.
    From what little we've managed to get out of NCSoft, it looks like City of Heroes was profitable (it was pretty stable at about $2.4 million per quarter if I'm remembering correctly) but Paragon Studios was eating up that profit and then some with a couple other mismanaged projects. NCSoft hasn't commented on City of Heroes speciifically, but they did explicitly state that Paragon Studios was not making a profit when it was shut down, and I have a feeling that these extra projects have some blame in it.
    Mismanaged and cancelled projects? What projects?

     


    Outside of upkeep and Issues the only thing that Paragon actually developed was Going Rogue.


    They tried to get funding for CoH2 but NCSoft turned them down.

    Paragon was allegedly working on a second game, which, naturally while being developed was not generating revenue, but incurring costs (effectively doubling the staffing)....

  • firefly2003firefly2003 Los Angeles, CAPosts: 2,555Member
    Originally posted by lugal
    For the era that game came out in, those are solid numbers. Do not measure that game against modern expectations.

    Don't measure games against the 1 anomaly in the industry....

    image

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