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PvE in CU not completely axed?
AdorianBlade
Member Posts: 62
First off let me preface this whole post by saying I’m excited for the direction of CU and am going to be funding the Kick Starter attempt.
I wanted to ask if there was any post by MJ or CSE that states this game will have no PvE. I have read all the FP’s and nowhere is there a definitive answer to that question. Three is a definitive statement that says we won’t have class leveling determined by PvE which is cool and another post that states there will be damn few NPC’s in general which is also cool. Enclosed below are the citations I’m referring to:
“no PvE leveling/gear grind) because I believe that will make this a better game for our niche.” (FP1)
Secondly, to make sure that the first point is followed, let’s just say that there are no NPC drops at all and damn few NPCs.” (FP2)
What leads me to believe that this game will have some, albeit very little, PvE elements are the consistent hints to it throughout, and the lack of definitive clarification otherwise. While I understand this game will have no Traditional PvE, which is not to say it won’t have any I’m lead to conclude that we may have some more “oldschool” PvE, ala world raids and drops for maybe crafting? Citations are below highlighted in red to clarify my point.
“no PvE leveling/gear grind) because I believe that will make this a better game for our niche.” (FP1)
“The best way to accomplish this is to ensure that there are no drops of powerful items from NPCs.Secondly, to make sure that the first point is followed, let’s just say that there are no NPC drops at all and damn few NPCs.” (FP2)
“You will get rewards for killing other players, other players’ helpers and some stuff in the world but it won’t be gear and we will also not offer tokens.”(FP2)
“And if that is not enough, well, we will have some other things that you can do but we are an RvR-focused game”(FP2)
There are quite a few points made that would lead one to believe no PvE at all, which for clarification doesn’t bother me in the least, however I’m not going to believe there won’t be any. I could easily see open world dragon raids taking place in the middle of a realm war for the chance to slay said dragon for his heart and scales to get to some artisan crafters. The rub of course being that dragons are rare and every other realm is trying to stop you from doing it because they want that blood, scales, and heart.
“maybe there are some rather powerful beings that even do more than simply building and destroying structures.”(FP11)
If someone has seen something definitive I’m all ears.
TL;DR I don’t think PvE is 100% out only 98%
Comments
I agree, this is way I understand it too. Perhaps some crafting supplies can be obtained from PvE, e.g. skinning a dragon.
EDIT: D'oh! Daizedd beat me to it! :-)
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I'm just so on the ball
Mark has hinted multiple times regarding potentially implementing a Darkness Falls style dungeon IF CSE can properly implement it. Obviously, this is where you have to throw in the clause that it may not happen at all. Nonetheless, I couldn't imagine a Darkness Falls style dungeon existing without the nastiest of nasty badguys calling it home.
Quite true. There will be, I'm sure, leather type armor. Of course the only way to get leather is by hunting/killing animals. Unless of course we will be raising cattle. Which to me seems quite boring.
Also many games use bone as an early crafting mat. Of course that doesn't mean CU will be using any of this, but, it seems logical. I love the idea of the dragons being a raid type event as well. Just make sure I get the scales. I promise I'll make you something spectacular. OOh and the teeth, and claws, and blood. Ohh and the heart, I want the heart too. Im not sure what I'll make with it, but I want that too.
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. ~Declaration of Arbroath
Killing bambi for his skin isnt PvE :P
joke aside, i thint that "hunting" isnt really PvE. There probably will be herding of some kind too for some animal material.
What i think is being thought so far is how to make all ressources available without any PvE, but they will have to add something for the ressources that the solutions arent possible at all without any kind of NPC Fauna.
Although i would like to see some kind of PvE, but really not for any kind of loots, drops etc. but some "random PvE events".
i won't copy the whole thing here since i did suggest it on another post that many of you probably read by now, but here is the link for those who didnt see it yet : http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/926/view/forums/thread/380795/page/3
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR
If you want a clearer idea about what this game is going to be about go to Camelot Unchained website and check out the Founder's Principles. It gives you a good idea about what it is. The fact that Camelot is in the title and that it is being made by the same guy who was a big part of DAOC may lead you and others to believe that this is the spiritual successor to DAoC but, as you state, that wouldn't quite be true in a game with PVE. So while there may be some confusion about this game's intent, as you will find in the Founder's Principles, there is no such suggestion that this game is the spiritual successor. That is simply an assumption or a hope of many because of the aforementioned similarities.
There will be many aspects that are similar in ways to DAoC's RVR I would imagine, but it won't be that full PVE/PVP type of game we had there. Don't let people fool you into believing CU is going to be a one trick pony, the intention is to have in depth crafting, housing, and mentioning of a variety of other things such as player built structures. Still, it is true, you won't be leveling through PVE in CU according to the Founder's Principles. It simply won't be an option, instead you will power up through contributing to your faction through war or crafting. Hope that helps!
CLICK: »»» http://CamelotUnchained.net «««
I have read all the FP's and by spirtual successor thats exactly what i meant, Spirtual. I know its not a sequal and i kow its not exactly the same team being both troika and mythic and then some. I know its an RvR centric game with extensive crafting systems. As you can see from my original post I made citation driectly form the FP's.
The purpose of the post is i believe others are misleading people into believing there will be no NPC's in this game, which i may be wrong, but i don't beleive that to be the case.
I think, and hope, this game will have a strong community due to the root nature this game is going back to. I also belive that building/crafintg and RvR are the key aspects of this yet what is crafting with no materials and many medevil materials were depnedant on creatures and many fantasy materials were dependent on fantasitcal creatures.
If the game wants to hold attention at all, its going to have PvE. it doesn't need to be focused on it so long as it has stuff to do outside killing others, whether its to suppliment for PvP or just other tasks that benefit them in playing. Lets face it, pvp can quickly become very simplistic and boring, even more so then PvE due to the fact its more limited on what can be done considering its player vs player, only able to change the scenario a bit compared to PvE where completely new activities can be mixed in easily.
Heck, the 'PvE' elements itself can work in benefit of the PvP as well, having objectives to work with WHILE doing the pvp aspect of the game. Good example having a full scale battle where friendly npc and enemy npc clash together while the players act as 'generals' of sorts, blazing through the battle field to effect it, the PvE elements making the scenario more intense while not detracting much at all from the PvP.
Either way, PvE WILL be in CU otherwise the game is going to be dropped very quickly. I just have high doubt that gameplay alone would be able to keep the player happy when its the same thing over and over.
I think the reasons for the no PvE approach can best be summarized by two things:
1. Cuts down development time by a significant factor.
2. The disparity that comes with the traditional way of leveling up is not only unnecessary, but goes against the whole concept of creating an "open world" that involves all players.
It's not that they think PvE is bad bad bad. I'm sure they would like to implement some PvE aspects, but probably in ways that support the RvR action rather than detract from it.
Ok! The post was more directed for fans that don't know what CU is about. You clearly have a good idea so it didn't really apply to you - my bad.
I agree with you that there will have to be some npcs and also think there will have to be some animals that will have to be killed for crafting. I don't agree about classifying it as a spiritual successor because that may be misleading to some who are not as informed about the game as yourself. No means to level up in PVE would mean it couldn't be DAoC 2 for some.
Looking forward and hoping for a great community and building/crafting system as well and I'm right with you there. I actually don't care for PVE much at all myself and thought that the RVR of DAoC was clearly where the game excelled. I really dislike having to grind PVE to become viable or get to the end game RVR. CU sounds like what I have been looking for since I quite Warhammer.
PvP can become simplistic and boring more quickly than PvE? It is more limited? PvE has completely new activities?
Is this an early April Fools' Day post?
Anyway, if you feel this way, I do not think Camelot Unchained will be the game you are looking for. It seems to be designed for players who feel the exact opposite; that PvE is simplistic and boring; that PvE is limited; and that PvE is always more of the same.
There's a post trending right now about if people can live with TESO not having any PVE Raids lol. Some people just aren't in this market.
Yea I REALLY don't want to ever have npcs interfering in PvP. That is the antithesis of what PvP and this game are supposed to be about. Everything in this game will be based around RvR. Remember PvE content takes much more money to develop and this probably won't happen soon given the niche they are aiming for and the funds they have set up. If they ever do add any PvE in this game, I would hope it would be some kind of EPIC dungeon you can hit up with a 4 or 8 man group that is very challenging and gives cosmetic-only rewards.
I'd prefer a darkness falls style dungeon, to be honest. Not sure what will drive people there if not loot though. Resources of some kind?
I think it would be a mistake to assume the niche market will drop a game that is catering directly to it unless, of course, the RVR simply isn't that fun (which is a distinct possibility). Why I disagree with your assertion is I know many people who still primarily PVP in UO - the PVE in that game is very simple, fighting players is where it is primarily at (along with the sandbox elements). Although the vast majority of gamers seemed to have issues with Warhammer, I still know a niche who played the game religiously (including myself) and we certainly didn't play it to grind the PVE, although there were aspects of it I liked. My friends and I played RVR and scenarios for years in that because that is what we liked about it - not the PVE. The same could be said about DAoC. There were plenty of PVE lovers there, but many more stayed for the RVR and the game is still being played today primarily because that.
Otherse argue it's not that the PVE was so great in those games, but having that mix or option was what made it good. Without it you had a boring one dimensional game. I was never personally impressed with the PVE in those games and enjoyed all of them, while primarily avoiding PVE if I could. I have hopes that crafting, building, and the community will provide equal to or better alternatives to poor (or difficult to balance) PVE in what is an RVR game.
I understand I am a niche gamer and not in the majority. Why I love this idea is because this game knows what it is. It is RVR first. All the other things will feed that or add onto it but they will not take away from it if done right. That is smart and the differentiation you need to succeed. While it may cater to a niche, you also see that most of these niche fans are ok paying a sub for this type of game, so it's not important if it is huge or appeals to many. It doesn't need to to survive and it can still be fun for this market.
Your post makes no sense at all. PvE is the same thing over and over. You fight a mob or boss, and then it is exactly the same every other time after that. In PvP every encounter is different than the previous one. The developers and Mark need to be focused 99% on RvR to make a game successfully that will revolve around it.
I never experienced the Darkness Falls dungeon. I just read a short description though and it sounds very cool. Sounds like a Blackrock Depths (which I loved!) feel from Classic WoW if you ever played. If I can speak from my own experience though, I did love Burning Crusade heroic dungeons. The difficulty was good and their size and feel certainly felt epic to me.
I would certainly be driven by cool cosmetic rewards and the challenge. I don't know how giving out resources will affect RvR so from the standpoint of what we know at this moment, I wouldn't want them dropping/obtainable in PvE.
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR
Most likely Crafting materials of some sort. Cash can still drop just not much of it, to avoid the gold farmer issues. Oh and don't forget trophy's How can i have that dragon head on my wall if there are no dragons to slay?
Darkness Falls was nothing like BRD, BRD was an instanced fixed man dungeon in the beggingin that got smaller and smaller as time progressed. DF was a dungeon that was a massive dungeon zone in and of itself that got much harder ther further you went down with huge raid bosses near the pit. There was no limit to the number of players in there and any realm could conceviably control it dependent on what happened in the Frontiers, when it chnaged hands those left inside the dungeon when it flipped were hunted so as to get RP's. Logging out in DF and waiting for it to flip was a viable startegy to farm quick RPs as a stelther and a means to sow chaos in a rather dangerous dungeon. the PvE mobs dropped seals for gear thats best value was salvage for the crafters.
Yes PvE is the same in every game but PvP is the same in every game also.
So with out both in the game it will fail in 6 months so i wont be wasting any time or money on this one.
No, just no. It isn't the same in every game. What a baseless assertion. The only thing you said that wasn't an opinion presented as wildly innaccurate fact was that you wouldn't be playing the game. With that in mind, the one bit of real information you shared with us was inconsequential. Hey, least you got your two cents in though, right? lol.