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How does combat actually work?

NC360NC360 Rome, NYPosts: 67Member

I seen a post saying: "Feint > Block > Overt Attack > Feint." So does that mean if someone is using an overt attack and hitting my character, I'm able to feint in the middle of being attacked and it prevents further damage? Or do I have to do it just before they use an overt attack? How does timing come into play? Can a person who is good not be damaged?

Anyway, understanding combat better is what I'm looking into. The game doesn't do well in terms of explaining things, and I don't have the time to put into a game that I won't end up liking in the end. So if someone can explain in detail the most important part of the game to me (combat), that would be nice.

Comments

  • AlamarethAlamareth Cincinnati, OHPosts: 570Member

    Generally, attacks cause your character to lockup on whatever state he/she was in when the attack hit you.

    Thus, if you are not blocking and get hit - you can't suddenly throw up a block.  There are some exceptions.

    However, if you are blocking and get hit - you CAN lower your block and take full damage.  This is important versus some styles because they have a CC on the backend of the attack.  Thus, you could properly time a block, but still end up in trouble because you let it down too soon.

    You CAN lower your block in reaction to an incoming feints.  Feints have varying speeds by style.  Some are slow enough that you can drop your block to avoid getting broken.  Others are too fast that allow for reaction.

    A bad player gets wrecked by this system.  Depending on what styles you are fighting, it sometimes turns into a pure guessing / prediction game.  That happens when you have two fairly high tiered players fighting each other.  It's becomes more about becoming unpredictable than necessarily reacting to your opponent.

  • NC360NC360 Rome, NYPosts: 67Member
    Originally posted by Alamareth

    Generally, attacks cause your character to lockup on whatever state he/she was in when the attack hit you.

    Thus, if you are not blocking and get hit - you can't suddenly throw up a block.  There are some exceptions.

    However, if you are blocking and get hit - you CAN lower your block and take full damage.  This is important versus some styles because they have a CC on the backend of the attack.  Thus, you could properly time a block, but still end up in trouble because you let it down too soon.

    You CAN lower your block in reaction to an incoming feints.  Feints have varying speeds by style.  Some are slow enough that you can drop your block to avoid getting broken.  Others are too fast that allow for reaction.

    A bad player gets wrecked by this system.  Depending on what styles you are fighting, it sometimes turns into a pure guessing / prediction game.  That happens when you have two fairly high tiered players fighting each other.  It's becomes more about becoming unpredictable than necessarily reacting to your opponent.

    Thanks for the information, as that isn't what I thought it was going to be. The "pure guessing game" thing is a big turn off. Maybe I was expecting too much. Anyway, good thing I asked before investing any great amount of time into the game.

  • AlamarethAlamareth Cincinnati, OHPosts: 570Member
    Originally posted by NC360
    Originally posted by Alamareth

    Generally, attacks cause your character to lockup on whatever state he/she was in when the attack hit you.

    Thus, if you are not blocking and get hit - you can't suddenly throw up a block.  There are some exceptions.

    However, if you are blocking and get hit - you CAN lower your block and take full damage.  This is important versus some styles because they have a CC on the backend of the attack.  Thus, you could properly time a block, but still end up in trouble because you let it down too soon.

    You CAN lower your block in reaction to an incoming feints.  Feints have varying speeds by style.  Some are slow enough that you can drop your block to avoid getting broken.  Others are too fast that allow for reaction.

    A bad player gets wrecked by this system.  Depending on what styles you are fighting, it sometimes turns into a pure guessing / prediction game.  That happens when you have two fairly high tiered players fighting each other.  It's becomes more about becoming unpredictable than necessarily reacting to your opponent.

    Thanks for the information, as that isn't what I thought it was going to be. The "pure guessing game" thing is a big turn off. Maybe I was expecting too much. Anyway, good thing I asked before investing any great amount of time into the game.

    The guessing game only comes into play at the very highest tiers of combats and only on a few style matchups.  For the most part, reaction works.  Sometimes, it doesn't.

    It's not an FPS - you will have to guess sometimes, a little bit (arguably you are guessing on a FPS too).  However, it's not pure guessing - you can count cooldowns, reposition yourself to take a few potential skills out of the mix, ect.

    You need to get into the game and play, it's definitely more skill based than even the fully tauted "action" MMOs.

    The whole blocking system revolves around rage.  That's why you can't put up a block whenever you want to.

  • NC360NC360 Rome, NYPosts: 67Member
    Originally posted by Alamareth
    Originally posted by NC360
    Originally posted by Alamareth

    Generally, attacks cause your character to lockup on whatever state he/she was in when the attack hit you.

    Thus, if you are not blocking and get hit - you can't suddenly throw up a block.  There are some exceptions.

    However, if you are blocking and get hit - you CAN lower your block and take full damage.  This is important versus some styles because they have a CC on the backend of the attack.  Thus, you could properly time a block, but still end up in trouble because you let it down too soon.

    You CAN lower your block in reaction to an incoming feints.  Feints have varying speeds by style.  Some are slow enough that you can drop your block to avoid getting broken.  Others are too fast that allow for reaction.

    A bad player gets wrecked by this system.  Depending on what styles you are fighting, it sometimes turns into a pure guessing / prediction game.  That happens when you have two fairly high tiered players fighting each other.  It's becomes more about becoming unpredictable than necessarily reacting to your opponent.

    Thanks for the information, as that isn't what I thought it was going to be. The "pure guessing game" thing is a big turn off. Maybe I was expecting too much. Anyway, good thing I asked before investing any great amount of time into the game.

    The guessing game only comes into play at the very highest tiers of combats and only on a few style matchups.  For the most part, reaction works.  Sometimes, it doesn't.

    It's not an FPS - you will have to guess sometimes, a little bit (arguably you are guessing on a FPS too).  However, it's not pure guessing - you can count cooldowns, reposition yourself to take a few potential skills out of the mix, ect.

    You need to get into the game and play, it's definitely more skill based than even the fully tauted "action" MMOs.

    The whole blocking system revolves around rage.  That's why you can't put up a block whenever you want to.

    It's not what I had in mind. And rather than use a FPSer as a comparison in regards to guessing (which I don't see them as being), I would perhaps say a game like Mount and Blade with sword combat back and forth, can go on for sometime before someone finally gets hit when both players are good, and it really isn't a guessing game either.

    Now I understand that I shouldn't expect too much from an MMO; however, I'm not that interested in AoW enough without some kind of combat that really interest me. Anyway, thanks for the info. It's just not my kind of game.

  • NC360NC360 Rome, NYPosts: 67Member
    Originally posted by Alamareth

    Generally, attacks cause your character to lockup on whatever state he/she was in when the attack hit you.

    Thus, if you are not blocking and get hit - you can't suddenly throw up a block.  There are some exceptions.

    And ^ that is another thing that bothers me. It's not just the guessing part, but rather how combat works in general.

     

    To be honest, I really think I may be asking too much. Either way, what little I played of AoW didn't interest me enough. But I'll keep looking for a MMO with combat that does interest me.

  • AlamarethAlamareth Cincinnati, OHPosts: 570Member
    Originally posted by NC360
    Originally posted by Alamareth
    Originally posted by NC360
    Originally posted by Alamareth

    Generally, attacks cause your character to lockup on whatever state he/she was in when the attack hit you.

    Thus, if you are not blocking and get hit - you can't suddenly throw up a block.  There are some exceptions.

    However, if you are blocking and get hit - you CAN lower your block and take full damage.  This is important versus some styles because they have a CC on the backend of the attack.  Thus, you could properly time a block, but still end up in trouble because you let it down too soon.

    You CAN lower your block in reaction to an incoming feints.  Feints have varying speeds by style.  Some are slow enough that you can drop your block to avoid getting broken.  Others are too fast that allow for reaction.

    A bad player gets wrecked by this system.  Depending on what styles you are fighting, it sometimes turns into a pure guessing / prediction game.  That happens when you have two fairly high tiered players fighting each other.  It's becomes more about becoming unpredictable than necessarily reacting to your opponent.

    Thanks for the information, as that isn't what I thought it was going to be. The "pure guessing game" thing is a big turn off. Maybe I was expecting too much. Anyway, good thing I asked before investing any great amount of time into the game.

    The guessing game only comes into play at the very highest tiers of combats and only on a few style matchups.  For the most part, reaction works.  Sometimes, it doesn't.

    It's not an FPS - you will have to guess sometimes, a little bit (arguably you are guessing on a FPS too).  However, it's not pure guessing - you can count cooldowns, reposition yourself to take a few potential skills out of the mix, ect.

    You need to get into the game and play, it's definitely more skill based than even the fully tauted "action" MMOs.

    The whole blocking system revolves around rage.  That's why you can't put up a block whenever you want to.

    It's not what I had in mind. And rather than use a FPSer as a comparison in regards to guessing (which I don't see them as being), I would perhaps say a game like Mount and Blade with sword combat back and forth, can go on for sometime before someone finally gets hit when both players are good, and it really isn't a guessing game either.

    Now I understand that I shouldn't expect too much from an MMO; however, I'm not that interested in AoW enough without some kind of combat that really interest me. Anyway, thanks for the info. It's just not my kind of game.

    You guess (read: predict) where someone will be in a FPS.  That's simply the nature of things, nothing is purely skill based.  Skill is how you are able to mitigate a poor prediction or maximize or a proper one.  I don't see how any game falls outside of that paradigm.

    Mount and Blade is pretty darn close to the same thing.  I don't think you get what I'm trying to say.

    I've played games for 15 years.  Nothing has come close to what AoW has - DAoC perhaps.  I put it far above the particularly highly touted action games like Tera and Raiderz.

  • NC360NC360 Rome, NYPosts: 67Member
    Originally posted by Alamareth
    Originally posted by NC360
    Originally posted by Alamareth
    Originally posted by NC360
    Originally posted by Alamareth

    Generally, attacks cause your character to lockup on whatever state he/she was in when the attack hit you.

    Thus, if you are not blocking and get hit - you can't suddenly throw up a block.  There are some exceptions.

    However, if you are blocking and get hit - you CAN lower your block and take full damage.  This is important versus some styles because they have a CC on the backend of the attack.  Thus, you could properly time a block, but still end up in trouble because you let it down too soon.

    You CAN lower your block in reaction to an incoming feints.  Feints have varying speeds by style.  Some are slow enough that you can drop your block to avoid getting broken.  Others are too fast that allow for reaction.

    A bad player gets wrecked by this system.  Depending on what styles you are fighting, it sometimes turns into a pure guessing / prediction game.  That happens when you have two fairly high tiered players fighting each other.  It's becomes more about becoming unpredictable than necessarily reacting to your opponent.

    Thanks for the information, as that isn't what I thought it was going to be. The "pure guessing game" thing is a big turn off. Maybe I was expecting too much. Anyway, good thing I asked before investing any great amount of time into the game.

    The guessing game only comes into play at the very highest tiers of combats and only on a few style matchups.  For the most part, reaction works.  Sometimes, it doesn't.

    It's not an FPS - you will have to guess sometimes, a little bit (arguably you are guessing on a FPS too).  However, it's not pure guessing - you can count cooldowns, reposition yourself to take a few potential skills out of the mix, ect.

    You need to get into the game and play, it's definitely more skill based than even the fully tauted "action" MMOs.

    The whole blocking system revolves around rage.  That's why you can't put up a block whenever you want to.

    It's not what I had in mind. And rather than use a FPSer as a comparison in regards to guessing (which I don't see them as being), I would perhaps say a game like Mount and Blade with sword combat back and forth, can go on for sometime before someone finally gets hit when both players are good, and it really isn't a guessing game either.

    Now I understand that I shouldn't expect too much from an MMO; however, I'm not that interested in AoW enough without some kind of combat that really interest me. Anyway, thanks for the info. It's just not my kind of game.

    You guess (read: predict) where someone will be in a FPS.  That's simply the nature of things, nothing is purely skill based.  Skill is how you are able to mitigate a poor prediction or maximize or a proper one.  I don't see how any game falls outside of that paradigm.

    Mount and Blade is pretty darn close to the same thing.  I don't think you get what I'm trying to say.

    I've played games for 15 years.  Nothing has come close to what AoW has - DAoC perhaps.  I put it far above the particularly highly touted action games like Tera and Raiderz.

    I'm extremely good at FPSers, and I don't really see it as a guessing game. So I suppose we will have to disagree on that.

    As for your interest in the game, that is fine. Everyone has different taste. I'm only saying from my perspective, it isn't something that I thought it was going to be. I tried the combat a little, and wasn't impressed by it.

    I suppose it would be cool to have something like Mount and Blade combat in a MMO.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by NC360
     

    I'm extremely good at FPSers, and I don't really see it as a guessing game. So I suppose we will have to disagree on that.

    As for your interest in the game, that is fine. Everyone has different taste. I'm only saying from my perspective, it isn't something that I thought it was going to be. I tried the combat a little, and wasn't impressed by it.

    I suppose it would be cool to have something like Mount and Blade combat in a MMO.

    combat is interesting but really doesn't start ot shine till you get more movement and more skills.. like any mmo though if you judged the entire system by the very start most would suck..  for example some people hail Tera as the best MMO combat but for me it didn't really get decent until the 30s when you got enough glyphs unlocked to speed things up a good bit as before that it just felt slow and boring to me. This games combat definitely takes some getting used to compared to other games i'll give them that

     

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • NC360NC360 Rome, NYPosts: 67Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by NC360
     

    I'm extremely good at FPSers, and I don't really see it as a guessing game. So I suppose we will have to disagree on that.

    As for your interest in the game, that is fine. Everyone has different taste. I'm only saying from my perspective, it isn't something that I thought it was going to be. I tried the combat a little, and wasn't impressed by it.

    I suppose it would be cool to have something like Mount and Blade combat in a MMO.

    combat is interesting but really doesn't start ot shine till you get more movement and more skills.. like any mmo though if you judged the entire system by the very start most would suck..  for example some people hail Tera as the best MMO combat but for me it didn't really get decent until the 30s when you got enough glyphs unlocked to speed things up a good bit as before that it just felt slow and boring to me. This games combat definitely takes some getting used to compared to other games i'll give them that

     

    I judge it based on how it works (from what you've explained, what I've seen in game, read, and from videos), and whether that is something that I would like. And it really isn't. For me what makes or breaks a game like this is the combat, and it just isn't what I would want to play.

    Again though, that doesn't mean it isn't something you like. And I'm not attacking your game, rather simply saying it isn't of interest to myself. And that it wasn't what I was expecting when I was downloading it.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by NC360
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by NC360
     

    I'm extremely good at FPSers, and I don't really see it as a guessing game. So I suppose we will have to disagree on that.

    As for your interest in the game, that is fine. Everyone has different taste. I'm only saying from my perspective, it isn't something that I thought it was going to be. I tried the combat a little, and wasn't impressed by it.

    I suppose it would be cool to have something like Mount and Blade combat in a MMO.

    combat is interesting but really doesn't start ot shine till you get more movement and more skills.. like any mmo though if you judged the entire system by the very start most would suck..  for example some people hail Tera as the best MMO combat but for me it didn't really get decent until the 30s when you got enough glyphs unlocked to speed things up a good bit as before that it just felt slow and boring to me. This games combat definitely takes some getting used to compared to other games i'll give them that

     

    I judge it based on how it works (from what you've explained, what I've seen in game, read, and from videos), and whether that is something that I would like. And it really isn't. For me what makes or breaks a game like this is the combat, and it just isn't what I would want to play.

    Again though, that doesn't mean it isn't something you like. And I'm not attacking your game, rather simply saying it isn't of interest to myself. And that it wasn't what I was expecting when I was downloading it.

    wouldn't really call it "my game" i just started playing.. just pointing out game plays very differn't in my experience overall than it does right off the bat(which imho sort of sucks because it detracts a lot of potential players).. but yes it's not a style everyone will enjoy.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • NC360NC360 Rome, NYPosts: 67Member
    Opps, I meant I judged from what Alamareth explained in regards to combat, not Aerowyn. I'm confusing you two guys.
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by NC360
    Opps, I meant I judged from what Alamareth explained in regards to combat, not Aerowyn. I'm confusing you two guys.

    once game launches i'm sure more people will put out more videos and tutorials about combat.. but again like any style of combat it won't appeal to everyone

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • NC360NC360 Rome, NYPosts: 67Member

    Well I would love to play an MMO with combat like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG0YM35goSE

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by NC360

    I seen a post saying: "Feint > Block > Overt Attack > Feint." So does that mean if someone is using an overt attack and hitting my character, I'm able to feint in the middle of being attacked and it prevents further damage? Or do I have to do it just before they use an overt attack? How does timing come into play? Can a person who is good not be damaged?

    Anyway, understanding combat better is what I'm looking into. The game doesn't do well in terms of explaining things, and I don't have the time to put into a game that I won't end up liking in the end. So if someone can explain in detail the most important part of the game to me (combat), that would be nice.

    You are miss understanding a little. Overt attack beats feint. So if some one starts a feit, you are able to beat that feit with an attack. Overt > Feint.

     

    Now can you block when someone who is in the middle of a overt attack? Sometimes, some skills kinda shock you, like 3 rapid hits. I will say most do. Some you are able to bring up your block and prevent further damage.

     

     

     

     

  • NC360NC360 Rome, NYPosts: 67Member

    Can someone explain one other thing to me? Someone said on a PvP video on Youtube that: "A sign will appear above the opponent's head in PvP showing what move they will do next, or what skill they are in the middle of casting." How come I never seen this sign in any PvP videos? What is he talking about?

    Here is the video where it is mentioned in the comment section: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL6u9_GI-xI

    Here is a cool PvP video, but I don't see what that guy was talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwfeWHI7EtU

    Edit: Did he mean just under the health bar? But that really doesn't seem to be each move his opponent is doing. Anyway, why are there no videos explaining combat in detail?

  • AlamarethAlamareth Cincinnati, OHPosts: 570Member
    Originally posted by NC360

    Can someone explain one other thing to me? Someone said on a PvP video on Youtube that: "A sign will appear above the opponent's head in PvP showing what move they will do next, or what skill they are in the middle of casting." How come I never seen this sign in any PvP videos? What is he talking about?

    Here is the video where it is mentioned in the comment section: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL6u9_GI-xI

    Here is a cool PvP video, but I don't see what that guy was talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwfeWHI7EtU

    Edit: Did he mean just under the health bar? But that really doesn't seem to be each move his opponent is doing. Anyway, why are there no videos explaining combat in detail?

    Umm, that person is wrong.  Some moves do telegraph a bit due to how slow they are (or they are easily predicted based on certain styles having extremely strong combos), but there's no sign over someone's head telling you whats coming.  That would be pretty silly.

    A health bar and a block endurance bar do show up, so perhaps that's what he was going for?

    Some moves will put up a charge bar on YOUR screen, but your opponent doesn't get to see it.

     

  • AresPLAresPL ElblagPosts: 290Member
    seems like he got confused, only bosses show casting bars
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