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What this game needs.. Is AA

Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon

I think they should add a branched AA sytem that allows people to keep developing and specialising their characters when they are at max level or starting at lvl 30 something.  Adding more diversity in passive abillities and new active skills that can be used through 3 additional skillslots.  

 

People want their chatacters to be special and different, and only more skilslots and specialisation can make them happy, espescially in games like this that have a hard gearcap, thats where people need the option to keep improving their actual characters.  I am a big fan of AA systems that allow for crossclass skillng and deeper specialisation, where the progress keeps getting slower and slower with every new point they attain, untill they reach a point (for example doubling with every point) where it effectively takes months of hard work to get another skillpoint.

 

how would that work, if skillpoint 1 takes 1 hour, then skillpoint 10 takes 1000 hours and skillpoint 20 takes 1000.0000 hours... You see that everyone would easilly get 7 points and noboddy would  ...get more then 13 or 14 points then things would still be reasonably ballanced. 

 

Now add to that another system.. Where the first 10 points cost 1 hour the next 10 cost 2 hours, the next 10 cost 3 hours, until the 100 th point costing 10 hours..  Making it take 550 hours to get 100 AA points..and  doubling or costing 50 % more there after...  Soon it will take ages tomlevel AA, but not making it impossible...

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

Comments

  • JasonJJasonJ New Port Richey, FLPosts: 395Member

    They have already spoken about how the skill trees will be expanded in the future as the level cap increases.

    At level 39 the Wizard has skills that are very different from each other.

    I used CC during large fights with bosses and adds to slow the boss down and froze the most powerful adds in place so the healer could keep the tank up.

    In fights with several elites I would straight DPS one while slowing it to keep the damage lower on the tank by kiting an elite.

    in garbage fights I would use my AOE skills to help kill faster.

    If they would just add hotbar swapping you will be able to have all your different builds available with the push of a button, until then, its just a matter of quickly swapping out the skils on your hotbar for the fights.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JasonJ

    They have already spoken about how the skill trees will be expanded in the future as the level cap increases.

    At level 39 the Wizard has skills that are very different from each other.

    I used CC during large fights with bosses and adds to slow the boss down and froze the most powerful adds in place so the healer could keep the tank up.

    In fights with several elites I would straight DPS one while slowing it to keep the damage lower on the tank by kiting an elite.

    in garbage fights I would use my AOE skills to help kill faster.

    If they would just add hotbar swapping you will be able to have all your different builds available with the push of a button, until then, its just a matter of quickly swapping out the skils on your hotbar for the fights.

    So what theybsay is that i can progress my character once every 2 years, thats not what people want

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • JasonJJasonJ New Port Richey, FLPosts: 395Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by JasonJ

    They have already spoken about how the skill trees will be expanded in the future as the level cap increases.

    At level 39 the Wizard has skills that are very different from each other.

    I used CC during large fights with bosses and adds to slow the boss down and froze the most powerful adds in place so the healer could keep the tank up.

    In fights with several elites I would straight DPS one while slowing it to keep the damage lower on the tank by kiting an elite.

    in garbage fights I would use my AOE skills to help kill faster.

    If they would just add hotbar swapping you will be able to have all your different builds available with the push of a button, until then, its just a matter of quickly swapping out the skils on your hotbar for the fights.

    So what theybsay is that i can progress my character once every 2 years, thats not what people want

     Sure dont see anything in there about a timeframe...and seeing as how SWTOR and GW2 both expanded character trees in about 6 months time...either way, dont speak for anyone other than yourself. I play D&D for stories, quests and grouping, nothing else. And seeing as how that is what D&D is based on, they seem to be hitting their target audience.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by JasonJ

    They have already spoken about how the skill trees will be expanded in the future as the level cap increases.

    At level 39 the Wizard has skills that are very different from each other.

    I used CC during large fights with bosses and adds to slow the boss down and froze the most powerful adds in place so the healer could keep the tank up.

    In fights with several elites I would straight DPS one while slowing it to keep the damage lower on the tank by kiting an elite.

    in garbage fights I would use my AOE skills to help kill faster.

    If they would just add hotbar swapping you will be able to have all your different builds available with the push of a button, until then, its just a matter of quickly swapping out the skils on your hotbar for the fights.

    So what theybsay is that i can progress my character once every 2 years, thats not what people want

     Sure dont see anything in there about a timeframe...and seeing as how SWTOR and GW2 both expanded character trees in about 6 months time...either way, dont speak for anyone other than yourself. I play D&D for stories, quests and grouping, nothing else. And seeing as how that is what D&D is based on, they seem to be hitting their target audience.

    Well, from my experience 95% of all DnD players are min maxers.... guess what that means, they want their characters to progress... 

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • AvarixAvarix Chicago, ILPosts: 376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by JasonJ

    They have already spoken about how the skill trees will be expanded in the future as the level cap increases.

    At level 39 the Wizard has skills that are very different from each other.

    I used CC during large fights with bosses and adds to slow the boss down and froze the most powerful adds in place so the healer could keep the tank up.

    In fights with several elites I would straight DPS one while slowing it to keep the damage lower on the tank by kiting an elite.

    in garbage fights I would use my AOE skills to help kill faster.

    If they would just add hotbar swapping you will be able to have all your different builds available with the push of a button, until then, its just a matter of quickly swapping out the skils on your hotbar for the fights.

    So what theybsay is that i can progress my character once every 2 years, thats not what people want

     Sure dont see anything in there about a timeframe...and seeing as how SWTOR and GW2 both expanded character trees in about 6 months time...either way, dont speak for anyone other than yourself. I play D&D for stories, quests and grouping, nothing else. And seeing as how that is what D&D is based on, they seem to be hitting their target audience.

    Well, from my experience 95% of all DnD players are min maxers.... guess what that means, they want their characters to progress... 

    In my experience, 96% of all DnD players are NOT min/maxers.

  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member
    Originally posted by Avarix
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by JasonJ

    They have already spoken about how the skill trees will be expanded in the future as the level cap increases.

    At level 39 the Wizard has skills that are very different from each other.

    I used CC during large fights with bosses and adds to slow the boss down and froze the most powerful adds in place so the healer could keep the tank up.

    In fights with several elites I would straight DPS one while slowing it to keep the damage lower on the tank by kiting an elite.

    in garbage fights I would use my AOE skills to help kill faster.

    If they would just add hotbar swapping you will be able to have all your different builds available with the push of a button, until then, its just a matter of quickly swapping out the skils on your hotbar for the fights.

    So what theybsay is that i can progress my character once every 2 years, thats not what people want

     Sure dont see anything in there about a timeframe...and seeing as how SWTOR and GW2 both expanded character trees in about 6 months time...either way, dont speak for anyone other than yourself. I play D&D for stories, quests and grouping, nothing else. And seeing as how that is what D&D is based on, they seem to be hitting their target audience.

    Well, from my experience 95% of all DnD players are min maxers.... guess what that means, they want their characters to progress... 

    In my experience, 96% of all DnD players are NOT min/maxers.

    96% of DDO players ARE min/maxers which will be a relfection here. DnD players stick to tabletops for a reason.

  • Alber_gamerAlber_gamer RomePosts: 557Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by furbans
    Originally posted by Avarix
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by JasonJ

    They have already spoken about how the skill trees will be expanded in the future as the level cap increases.

    At level 39 the Wizard has skills that are very different from each other.

    I used CC during large fights with bosses and adds to slow the boss down and froze the most powerful adds in place so the healer could keep the tank up.

    In fights with several elites I would straight DPS one while slowing it to keep the damage lower on the tank by kiting an elite.

    in garbage fights I would use my AOE skills to help kill faster.

    If they would just add hotbar swapping you will be able to have all your different builds available with the push of a button, until then, its just a matter of quickly swapping out the skils on your hotbar for the fights.

    So what theybsay is that i can progress my character once every 2 years, thats not what people want

     Sure dont see anything in there about a timeframe...and seeing as how SWTOR and GW2 both expanded character trees in about 6 months time...either way, dont speak for anyone other than yourself. I play D&D for stories, quests and grouping, nothing else. And seeing as how that is what D&D is based on, they seem to be hitting their target audience.

    Well, from my experience 95% of all DnD players are min maxers.... guess what that means, they want their characters to progress... 

    In my experience, 96% of all DnD players are NOT min/maxers.

    96% of DDO players ARE min/maxers which will be a relfection here. DnD players stick to tabletops for a reason.

    A documented study shows that 97.3% of the surveys posted in the internet are made up on the fly.

    My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon

    Hehe, I'm pretty sure many, if not most, dnd players are min/max to a degree.  I mean, c'mon how many people do you know who have rerolled a character until they got stats they want.  There's a reason why newer editions and game translations adopted some sort of point system.

    Cryptic has received a lot of feedback about the powers and feats system.  Maybe they will take that into account.

  • GruntyGrunty Fort Worth, TXPosts: 7,029Member Uncommon
    Anti-aliasing, anti-aircraft or American Airlines?  The last two don't quite mix. Then again that might be the fun part.
  • ego13ego13 Reno, NVPosts: 267Member

    If you want to develop further get more gear.  That's the general premise of MMORPGs.  Level, dungeons/raids/pvp for gear.  While I, personally, would love for a game to come along that allowed you to continue developing your character forever it's just not realistic without alienating anyone new to the game by making content completely untouchable OR it would completely trivialize the content for that older player.  Either way it's a big loss.

    Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

    image

  • EsuarfeeeeEsuarfeeee cityofangelsPosts: 76Member
    where did you all guys get those percentages anyway?

    image
  • ego13ego13 Reno, NVPosts: 267Member
    Originally posted by Esuarfeeee
    where did you all guys get those percentages anyway?

    Open ass-insert head.  Where most gamers get their percentages!

    Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

    image

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member

    Bachus put down the wine for a day, then come back and read what you said.

     

    People are min maxers, ok, but for example in STO min-maxers have no issue staying around years after they hit level cap, why? because they can do other things, min-maxing is a desire for progression and progression does not have to be verticle only (raw power) but could be in horizontal directions as well ( flexbility, specialization, custom builds, etc,etc).

    image
  • Storman1977Storman1977 Columbus, OHPosts: 207Member

    So, there is no multi-classing? Hard to call it D&D with no multi-classing

    image

  • ego13ego13 Reno, NVPosts: 267Member

    It would be brilliant if they actually gave you ANY bit of customization.

     

    The main reason I didn't pay for founder is the complete and utter lack of any difference between characters.  You have no way of differentiating yourself from Rogue1 and Rogue0192838392.  The gear all looks the same, their skills will all be the same.  Most powers are so much better than the other options that you'd be clearly gimping yourself just to be different.  

    I'm hoping, if nothing else, they bring powers in-line with each other so that you have to make hard decisions on what to use and/or have great abilities to choose from for each type of encounter.

    Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

    image

  • ego13ego13 Reno, NVPosts: 267Member
    Originally posted by Storman1977

    So, there is no multi-classing? Hard to call it D&D with no multi-classing

    You obviously never played 4e....where multiclassing just meant wasting a feat.

    Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

    image

  • Storman1977Storman1977 Columbus, OHPosts: 207Member


    Originally posted by Cirin
    Originally posted by Storman1977 So, there is no multi-classing? Hard to call it D&D with no multi-classing
    You obviously never played 4e....where multiclassing just meant wasting a feat.


    You're right. Flipped through the DM's Guide when it first hit market. Realized it was shit and proceeded to pick up more 3.5 modules.

    image

  • HorrorScopeHorrorScope Norcal, CAPosts: 612Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by JasonJ

    They have already spoken about how the skill trees will be expanded in the future as the level cap increases.

    At level 39 the Wizard has skills that are very different from each other.

    I used CC during large fights with bosses and adds to slow the boss down and froze the most powerful adds in place so the healer could keep the tank up.

    In fights with several elites I would straight DPS one while slowing it to keep the damage lower on the tank by kiting an elite.

    in garbage fights I would use my AOE skills to help kill faster.

    If they would just add hotbar swapping you will be able to have all your different builds available with the push of a button, until then, its just a matter of quickly swapping out the skils on your hotbar for the fights.

    So what theybsay is that i can progress my character once every 2 years, thats not what people want

     Sure dont see anything in there about a timeframe...and seeing as how SWTOR and GW2 both expanded character trees in about 6 months time...either way, dont speak for anyone other than yourself. I play D&D for stories, quests and grouping, nothing else. And seeing as how that is what D&D is based on, they seem to be hitting their target audience.

    Well, from my experience 95% of all DnD players are min maxers.... guess what that means, they want their characters to progress... 

    And what does min/max'er mean? That a player is making a concious effort to make their character as strong as possible. Which is pretty much the point in nearly all cases, or 95% of them. People, not you, say it like it's a bad thing, it's a freakin natural thing to do and expect.

  • Alber_gamerAlber_gamer RomePosts: 557Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Storman1977

     


    Originally posted by Cirin

    Originally posted by Storman1977 So, there is no multi-classing? Hard to call it D&D with no multi-classing
    You obviously never played 4e....where multiclassing just meant wasting a feat.

     


    You're right. Flipped through the DM's Guide when it first hit market. Realized it was shit and proceeded to pick up more 3.5 modules.

    I love it how all these DnD savy wannabes mention that it's hard to call it DnD without multiclassing, when the real original DnD didn't allow any multiclassing at all. Advanced DnD introduced Dual-Classes with very limited options and heavy penalties, and it's 3rd, and later 3.5 that bastardized it making the rules into a minmaxer heaven. 4th Ed actually puts some reins to it, which was a necessary change.

    My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  • AvarixAvarix Chicago, ILPosts: 376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by HorrorScope
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by JasonJ

    They have already spoken about how the skill trees will be expanded in the future as the level cap increases.

    At level 39 the Wizard has skills that are very different from each other.

    I used CC during large fights with bosses and adds to slow the boss down and froze the most powerful adds in place so the healer could keep the tank up.

    In fights with several elites I would straight DPS one while slowing it to keep the damage lower on the tank by kiting an elite.

    in garbage fights I would use my AOE skills to help kill faster.

    If they would just add hotbar swapping you will be able to have all your different builds available with the push of a button, until then, its just a matter of quickly swapping out the skils on your hotbar for the fights.

    So what theybsay is that i can progress my character once every 2 years, thats not what people want

     Sure dont see anything in there about a timeframe...and seeing as how SWTOR and GW2 both expanded character trees in about 6 months time...either way, dont speak for anyone other than yourself. I play D&D for stories, quests and grouping, nothing else. And seeing as how that is what D&D is based on, they seem to be hitting their target audience.

    Well, from my experience 95% of all DnD players are min maxers.... guess what that means, they want their characters to progress... 

    And what does min/max'er mean? That a player is making a concious effort to make their character as strong as possible. Which is pretty much the point in nearly all cases, or 95% of them. People, not you, say it like it's a bad thing, it's a freakin natural thing to do and expect.

    I always see min/max as pretty extreme. I would like my character to be pretty buff in most games but not to the exception of everything else. I see them as sacrificing fun, looks, and a major amount of time for a 1% increase in DPS. Min/max has become a dirty word to me playing with people like that in games over the years.

     

    Also, my last post was sarcasm in case anyone missed it. I have no clue what the actual percentage of people that like to min/max in DnD is, but neither do you so don't act like you do.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Alber_gamer
    Originally posted by Storman1977

     


    Originally posted by Cirin

    Originally posted by Storman1977 So, there is no multi-classing? Hard to call it D&D with no multi-classing
    You obviously never played 4e....where multiclassing just meant wasting a feat.

     


    You're right. Flipped through the DM's Guide when it first hit market. Realized it was shit and proceeded to pick up more 3.5 modules.

    I love it how all these DnD savy wannabes mention that it's hard to call it DnD without multiclassing, when the real original DnD didn't allow any multiclassing at all. Advanced DnD introduced Dual-Classes with very limited options and heavy penalties, and it's 3rd, and later 3.5 that bastardized it making the rules into a minmaxer heaven. 4th Ed actually puts some reins to it, which was a necessary change.

    Well, i eveolved from AD&D 2nd edition to 3 and 3.5, and thats where we are happily stuck now.. 

    4th edition is a totally different game, that us PnP oldies dont like much, because it takes away (in my opinion) so much of the freedom.

     

    But then i have allways said, you cant use things like D20 to create a PC game, but its finally time that PC players get to taste some more freedom in creating the characters they want, and not the characters that the game developers pre created.

     

    game developers worry about ballance to much and forget about the fun..

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • Alber_gamerAlber_gamer RomePosts: 557Member Uncommon

    It's true that 4th Edition hasn't been very welcome amongst the more hardcore players, but I assure you that when AD&D changed to 3rd it was the same. In the end, we all adapted because the changes opened the game up for a larger crowd, made them more simple, and thus easier to learn and get involved for people that weren't into DnD before. It's the exact same transition from AD&D to 3rd as it's from 3.5 to 4th. Oversimplifying rules to open the game to more people.

     

    Now if in NWO there's no multiclassing, so be it. It doesn't mean I like it more or less, I'm just saying that it doesn't make it more or less DnD, since originally DnD didn't have any multiclassing to start with.

     

    If anyone needs to excuse themselves for not playing the game that's fine too, but saying "it's not DnD" is not the excuse they're looking for. DnD has always been about the storytelling. The character builds, the save throws or the THAC0 are just tools that change over time.

    My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,436Member Uncommon
    99% of DND based statistics are made up 87.5% with an accuracy rate of 98.99%.

    image
  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Alber_gamer

    It's true that 4th Edition hasn't been very welcome amongst the more hardcore players, but I assure you that when AD&D changed to 3rd it was the same. In the end, we all adapted because the changes opened the game up for a larger crowd, made them more simple, and thus easier to learn and get involved for people that weren't into DnD before. It's the exact same transition from AD&D to 3rd as it's from 3.5 to 4th. Oversimplifying rules to open the game to more people.

     

    Now if in NWO there's no multiclassing, so be it. It doesn't mean I like it more or less, I'm just saying that it doesn't make it more or less DnD, since originally DnD didn't have any multiclassing to start with.

     

    If anyone needs to excuse themselves for not playing the game that's fine too, but saying "it's not DnD" is not the excuse they're looking for. DnD has always been about the storytelling. The character builds, the save throws or the THAC0 are just tools that change over time.

    I dont know, as a 2.0 player, i quickly saw the advantages of the 3.0 rules.. and the multi classing it allowed.  Sadly it took me ages to lay my hands on some good 3.0 psionics rules.

     

    Anyway, from what i read, 4.0 is a step backwards in freedom, but a step forward in comprehendebillitly

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Alber_gamer
    Originally posted by Storman1977

     


    Originally posted by Cirin

    Originally posted by Storman1977 So, there is no multi-classing? Hard to call it D&D with no multi-classing
    You obviously never played 4e....where multiclassing just meant wasting a feat.

     


    You're right. Flipped through the DM's Guide when it first hit market. Realized it was shit and proceeded to pick up more 3.5 modules.

    I love it how all these DnD savy wannabes mention that it's hard to call it DnD without multiclassing, when the real original DnD didn't allow any multiclassing at all. Advanced DnD introduced Dual-Classes with very limited options and heavy penalties, and it's 3rd, and later 3.5 that bastardized it making the rules into a minmaxer heaven. 4th Ed actually puts some reins to it, which was a necessary change.

    Well, i eveolved from AD&D 2nd edition to 3 and 3.5, and thats where we are happily stuck now.. 

    4th edition is a totally different game, that us PnP oldies dont like much, because it takes away (in my opinion) so much of the freedom.

     

    But then i have allways said, you cant use things like D20 to create a PC game, but its finally time that PC players get to taste some more freedom in creating the characters they want, and not the characters that the game developers pre created.

     

    game developers worry about ballance to much and forget about the fun..

    this is why no matter what they call 5th edidition to a person like me it will always be known as D&D the apolagy.

    to be honest i still mainly use my 3.5 stuff and prob wont ever go to anything else, i do on occasion use my AD&D, rifts, and some pathfinder stuff. but 3.5 works well and i see no reason to change

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

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