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So much for balance

itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

It's patch day and I spent all day trying to discover just what they fixed over there. Nothing apparently, which is pretty much par for the course at this point for engineers. So in lieu of today's patch notes, please enjoy this video showing the short history up to today of how Arenanet has handled balance in their title since launch. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

 

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Comments

  • PivotelitePivotelite Hamilton, ONPosts: 2,167Member
    I haven't read the notes yet but heard from a friend mesmers and thiefs were being buffed or at the very least not toned down at all, if that's true i'll be very dissapointed, even if I don't play the game currently.

    image

  • Originally posted by itgrowls

    It's patch day and I spent all day trying to discover just what they fixed over there. Nothing apparently, which is pretty much par for the course at this point for engineers. So in lieu of today's patch notes, please enjoy this video showing the short history up to today of how Arenanet has handled balance in their title since launch. 

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

     

    thanks for that video. loved it. image

  • VolgoreVolgore Posts: 2,202Member Uncommon

    Great clip...would be funny, if it wouldn't be the sad truth.

    ANet has never had the slightest clue of what to do with their classes. If it works, nerf it. If it still works, break it. If it was broken since release and you can't break it any further, at least mess up the tooltip as well.

    image
  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon

    Oh my god!

    Someone is unhappy with some balance changes to a videogame!

    Unheard of!

    Especially changes made to the class they play.

    I would say anyone still playing this game must be suffering from Stockholm syndrome, since the game is so unplayable.

     

    So you still playing the game?

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Pivotelite
    I haven't read the notes yet but heard from a friend mesmers and thiefs were being buffed or at the very least not toned down at all, if that's true i'll be very dissapointed, even if I don't play the game currently.

    Haste was nerfed.

    Profession Skills

    General

    • Endurance can no longer be negative.
    • Conditions can no longer be transferred to creatures immune to them.
    • Stealth: The duration of Revealed has been increased to 4 seconds when coming out of stealth via an attack.
    • Added evasion duration skill facts to skills.
    • Pets now benefit from their owner’s agony resistance.
    • Reduced quickness from 100% attack speed to 50%.
      As we push to improve balance in both PvE and PvP, a few mechanics in the game will be receiving updates to promote fun and balanced play. In the past, quickness has granted double the action speed normally available to players. In PvP, this speed gives most players almost no chance to react to incoming abilities and allows for massive spike damage in extremely short periods of time. In PvE, the increased attack speed can trivialize a lot of content that would otherwise provide a good challenge. Therefore, we are reducing the speed that quickness allows by half of its current potential while slightly increasing the duration on player-activated skills.

    Elementalist

    • Arc Lightning skill: Now strikes enemies that it passes through.
    • Conjured weapons:
      • Now stop autoattacks and cannot be autocast.
      • Now properly appear in the player’s hands upon casting.
    • Signet of Air skill: Updated the passive buff’s description to appropriately indicate the movement speed granted.
    • Elementalists can no longer use the Mist Form skill to instantly rally if they go down exactly at the end of the Tornado skill.
    • Changing attunements no longer causes players to start autoattacking.
    • The Sunspot, Electric Discharge, and Earthen Blast traits no longer trigger when changing attunements while out of combat.
    • Evasive Arcana trait: Plays an effect if the elementalist dodges while in water attunement.

    Engineer

    • Packaged Stimulants trait:
      • No longer increases the recharge time on the Drop Bandages skill.
      • No longer reduces the recharge time on the Drop Stimulant skill.
      • No longer applies incorrect fury and swiftness durations to the Drop Stimulant skill.
      • No longer prevents acquisition of the Drop Stimulant pick-up while the player is under the effect of swiftness or fury.
    • Rifled Barrels trait:
      • No longer applies incorrect bleed and weakness durations to the Tranquilizer Dart skill.
      • No longer reduces the recharge time on the Elixir F skill.
    • Forceful Explosives trait: No longer reduces the radius on bombs dropped by the Evasive Powder Keg trait.
    • Fireforged Trigger trait:
      • Correctly lowers the recharge on Elixir F and Super Elixir if the Rifled Barrels trait is also equipped.
      • Correctly lowers the recharge on Acid Bomb.
    • Grenadier trait: No longer removes the recharge when the player stows the Grenade Kit.
    • Super Elixir skill: Displays the correct tooltip information when the Rifled Barrels trait is equipped.
    • Toss Elixir H skill: Displays the correct boon duration on the tooltip while the player is underwater.
    • Throw Mine skill: Correctly turns off the Detonate skill if the mine times out.
    • Automated Response trait: Grants immunity to conditions when the inflictor has over 100% duration.
    • Elixir U:
      • Removed Quickening Zephyr from the base elixir.
      • Removed Veil from the toss mechanic.
      • Now casts instantly and breaks stuns.
    • Stabilized Armor trait: Reduces incoming damage by 5% while endurance is full.
    • Super Elixir skill:
      • Increased both impact base healing and scaling with healing power by 100%.
      • Increased base heal multiplier by 50% and healing power scaling by 100%.
    • Tool Kit skill: Increased potency of skills that heal turrets by 100%.
    • Acidic Coating trait: Now has its intended 10-second cooldown.
    • All utility turrets now detonate after 5 minutes.
    • Thumper Turret skill:
      • Damage from base attacks increased by 66%.
      • Base attacks now cripple for 3 seconds.
      • Self-destructs after 5 minutes.
    • Shockwave skill:
      • Increased damage by 66%.
      • Cooldown reduced from 90 seconds to 45 seconds.
    • Rifle Turret skill: Increased damage from this turret’s base and overcharged attacks by 50%.
    • Surprise Shot skill: Increased damage by 50%.
    • Rocket Turret skill: Reduced recharge from 60 seconds to 50 seconds.
    • Net Turret skill: Increased turret’s health by 25%.
    • Net Attack skill: Reduced cooldown from 60 seconds to 45 seconds.
    • Flame Turret skill:
      • Reduced recharge from 40 seconds to 25 seconds.
      • Increased main attack’s arc from 30 degrees to 60 degrees.
    • Throw Napalm skill: Reduced cooldown from 60 seconds to 30 seconds.
    • Flame Blast skill:
      • No longer double-detonates when the projectile expires naturally.
      • Turns off Detonate after the flame blast ball is gone.
    • Grenade Kit skill: Grenades no longer require the player to have line of sight of the target area to throw them.
    • Kit Refinement trait: Reworked kit skills to balance their effectiveness. All kit skills are now on a static global recharge (20 seconds). The changes are as follows:
      • Med Kit: Equipping this kit applies Magnetic Aura.
      • Bomb Kit: Equipping this kit creates a Magnetic Bomb that pulls enemies toward the center after a brief delay.
      • Elixir Gun: Equipping this kit activates a Glue Trail that follows the player for a short time. Enemies that step in the glue are briefly immobilized.
      • Tool Kit: Equipping this kit grants the user Super Speed for a brief duration.
      • Flamethrower: Equipping this kit grants the player Flame Aura for a time.
      • Grenade Kit: Equipping this kit drops a mine at the player’s location that deals damage and removes a boon.
      • Skills that activate this trait can now activate in midair.
    • Blowtorch skill: No longer displays “miss” on attacks that connect at medium and far distances.

    Guardian

    • Wrath skill: Now strikes enemies that it passes through.
    • Symbol of Protection skill: Now correctly hits five maximum targets and applies boons to five allies.
    • Symbol of Faith skill: Now correctly hits five maximum targets.
    • Virtue of Courage skill: Aegis correctly reapplies when stripped.

    Mesmer

    • Spatial Surge skill: Now strikes up to two enemies that it passes through, in addition to the primary target.
    • Confusing Images skill: Now strikes enemies that it passes through.
    • Magic Bullet skill:
      • The traited version is now a projectile combo finisher to match the base skill’s functionality.
      • No longer hits targets beyond maximum range.
    • Blade Training trait: Properly reduces the recharge of Illusionary Leap.
    • Illusionary Duelist skill: Reduced the range to 900, matching its current listing.
    • Arcane Thievery skill: Now has the correct range when the Far-Reaching Manipulations trait is equipped.
    • Confounding Suggestions trait: Reduced the frequency of stunning targets when Diversion is used from 100% of the time to 50%.
    • Dazzling trait: Now functions with Chaos Storm and Illusionary Riposte’s secondary attack.

    Necromancer

    • Bone Fiend: This creature now properly fires two projectiles while underwater.
    • Dark Path skill: Now unblockable.
    • Epidemic skill: Now requires line of sight of the main target to spread conditions to nearby enemies.
    • Spiteful Talisman trait: Properly grants bonus damage to Spinal Shivers for each boon removed.
    • Staffs now correctly play the visual effects of necromancer staff skills at the tip of the staff rather than at the player’s hands.
    • Life Siphon skill: Updated skill facts.
    • Death Shroud skill: No longer uses a custom skill bar interface, thereby allowing players using Death Shroud to see buffs, health, and endurance. The screen and sound effects are unchanged.
    • Necromancer trait: Now allows life-stealing on walls in World vs. World.

    Ranger

    • Black Widow Spider pet: Now has the correct amount of vitality.
    • White Raven pet: Now has the correct amount of vitality.
    • Drake pet Chomp attack: This skill no longer heals enemy targets.
    • Maul skill:
      • Increased bleeding duration from 4 seconds to 6 seconds.
      • Increased base damage by 26%.
    • Counterattack skill: Reduced recharge from 20 seconds to 15 seconds.
    • Hilt Bash skill: Reduced recharge from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
    • Ranger pet cooldowns are now properly preserved when stabled.
    • Feline pets: Maul now applies consistent critical hits.
    • Quickening Zephyr skill: Now breaks stun. Increased duration from 4 seconds to 5 seconds.
    • Pet-revive skills no longer fail to heal their target.

    Thief

    • Corrosive Traps trait:
      • Applies the correct vulnerability duration with Shadow Trap.
      • Now applies vulnerability with Ambush Trap.
    • Healing Seed skill:
      • Increased radius slightly.
      • Now displays the combo field ring.
    • Caltrops:
      • Reduced duration from 15 seconds to 10 seconds.
      • Now indicates its radius.
    • Steal skill: No longer initiates autoattacks.
    • Uncatchable trait:
      • Now displays an active combat area to both allies and enemies.
      • Increased effective radius by 50%.
    • Basilisk Venom skill: No longer immobilizes targets in addition to stunning them.
    • Haste skill: Increased duration from 4 seconds to 5 seconds.

    Warrior

    • Kick skill: Now lunges toward the target slightly, extending the range.
    • Rampage skill:
      • The Kick skill now lunges towards the target slightly, extending the range.
      • Players can now use the Throw Boulder skill while moving.
    • Banner of Defense skill: Increased toughness and vitality granted to allies from 90 at level 80 to 170.
    • Banner of Discipline skill: Increased precision granted to allies from 90 at level 80 to 170.
    • Banner of Strength skill: Increased power and condition damage granted to allies from 90 at level 80 to 170.
    • Banner of Tactics skill: Increased healing granted to allies from 90 at level 80 to 170.
    • Bladetrail skill: Can no longer be fired at enemies behind the player.
    • Frenzy skill: The duration of quickness and its debuffs are now 5 seconds and 6.25 seconds when the player is affected by the Sure-Footed trait.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • CromicaCromica West Fargo, NDPosts: 657Member Uncommon
    lol they banned me from the forums for saying that this patch still gives me no reason to log in, the mods over there must be descendants of the stasi.
  • StanlyStankoStanlyStanko Stanksville, OHPosts: 269Member Common
    Originally posted by Cromica
    lol they banned me from the forums for saying that this patch still gives me no reason to log in, the mods over there must be descendants of the stasi.

    They already got your money. They don't have to care about you.

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    It's patch day and I spent all day trying to discover just what they fixed over there. Nothing apparently, which is pretty much par for the course at this point for engineers. So in lieu of today's patch notes, please enjoy this video showing the short history up to today of how Arenanet has handled balance in their title since launch. 

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

     

    [mod edit] BTW, great video!  I love the part where the engineers are turned into trees!

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member

    People want to pwn, not have to work for a kill. It is that simple.

     

    Don't like the game - don't play it. But people would rather whine than move on - victim mentality at it's finest.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by StanlyStanko
    Originally posted by Cromica
    lol they banned me from the forums for saying that this patch still gives me no reason to log in, the mods over there must be descendants of the stasi.

    They already got your money. They don't have to care about you.

    Still see the post and no information of infraction.

    And of course it would be a deserved infraction as it clearly falls in the category of trolling and baiting.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Lol..funny video. Engineer is my main. I have been waiting for them to bring Engineer on par with other classes but i guess it is never going to happen.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • HorrorScopeHorrorScope Norcal, CAPosts: 612Member
    Originally posted by botrytis

    People want to pwn, not have to work for a kill. It is that simple.

    i don't think it is that simple. If you start easy and make hard, they get mad. But if you start hard and let up, win. The thing is to start your game hard and conservative. Generally gamers buy into your original offering and defend the shit out of it.

  • VorchVorch Somewhere, FLPosts: 800Member

    Been playing my engineer for a bit in WvW....where's the nerf?

     

    I'm a Kit dancer with nades and flamethrower as my main weps and toolkit for utility

     

    In fact...they've been buffed -_-.

     

    Only rangers have the right to complain.

    "As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,690Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    Oh my god!

    Someone is unhappy with some balance changes to a videogame!

    Unheard of!

    Especially changes made to the class they play.

    I would say anyone still playing this game must be suffering from Stockholm syndrome, since the game is so unplayable.

     

    So you still playing the game?

    Seriously. I mean, how terrible is Anet. They cant even balance their classes. Everyone knows every game has all class balance perfected within like  a month afte rlaunch. No game ever in history is still doing at least minor balancing patches even several years after launch. Remember how even WoW achieved perfect balance in like a week and has never changed anyc lasses since?

    Oh wait...

  • CromicaCromica West Fargo, NDPosts: 657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by StanlyStanko
    Originally posted by Cromica
    lol they banned me from the forums for saying that this patch still gives me no reason to log in, the mods over there must be descendants of the stasi.

    They already got your money. They don't have to care about you.

    Still see the post and no information of infraction.

    And of course it would be a deserved infraction as it clearly falls in the category of trolling and baiting.

    No it was a fact to me. The thread was about what we though about the patch and it still offers no reason for me to log in. 

  • dgarbinidgarbini San Jose, CAPosts: 185Member
    Great video thank you very much, most entertainment I have gotten out of GW2 in months.  Keep it up.  And we all know its so true.
  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    I imagine Mesmers and Warriors got the biggest nerf. I thought Engineer was supposed to be more of a support guy, so I personally don't have issues with it. If I wanted to roll into PvP and own single targets I would play a Thief or a Warrior.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,288Member Uncommon
    definitely one of the funniest vids i've seen in a long time imageimage
  • versulasversulas None of your damn business, WAPosts: 286Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kaiser3282
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    Oh my god!

    Someone is unhappy with some balance changes to a videogame!

    Unheard of!

    Especially changes made to the class they play.

    I would say anyone still playing this game must be suffering from Stockholm syndrome, since the game is so unplayable.

     

    So you still playing the game?

    Seriously. I mean, how terrible is Anet. They cant even balance their classes. Everyone knows every game has all class balance perfected within like  a month afte rlaunch. No game ever in history is still doing at least minor balancing patches even several years after launch. Remember how even WoW achieved perfect balance in like a week and has never changed anyc lasses since?

    Oh wait...

    Well, considering they started without tanks and healers (yes, yes I know... There are specs that can be tanky or provide lots of support, go kill yourself), it should have made their job easier.

    Not saying it had to be perfect out of the box, but I don't think they should be immune to any and all criticism either. It's not like pallies in WoW where whole talent trees went unused for years at a time. These classes, despite their uniqueness, all have the same damn job. If there's a major gap in performance, it should be immediately noticeable. 

  • gordiflugordiflu BarcelonaPosts: 757Member
    Originally posted by StanlyStanko
    Originally posted by Cromica
    lol they banned me from the forums for saying that this patch still gives me no reason to log in, the mods over there must be descendants of the stasi.

    They already got your money. They don't have to care about you.

    Becouse B2P is the best model, right? Right?

     

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by versulas
    Originally posted by kaiser3282
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    Oh my god!

    Someone is unhappy with some balance changes to a videogame!

    Unheard of!

    Especially changes made to the class they play.

    I would say anyone still playing this game must be suffering from Stockholm syndrome, since the game is so unplayable.

     

    So you still playing the game?

    Seriously. I mean, how terrible is Anet. They cant even balance their classes. Everyone knows every game has all class balance perfected within like  a month afte rlaunch. No game ever in history is still doing at least minor balancing patches even several years after launch. Remember how even WoW achieved perfect balance in like a week and has never changed anyc lasses since?

    Oh wait...

    Well, considering they started without tanks and healers (yes, yes I know... There are specs that can be tanky or provide lots of support, go kill yourself), it should have made their job easier.

    Not saying it had to be perfect out of the box, but I don't think they should be immune to any and all criticism either. It's not like pallies in WoW where whole talent trees went unused for years at a time. These classes, despite their uniqueness, all have the same damn job. If there's a major gap in performance, it should be immediately noticeable. 

    So that is why there is no difference of performance between tanks? Between healers? And between DPSes?

    And must I remind you that players thought that melee was useless, especially in dungeons?

    And now even after nerfs and no significant boosts, warriors are the most powerful PvE class and probably the least powerful PvP class?

    What about all the mess about the hybrids in WoW? Add damage penalty, remove damage penalty, remove hybrids.

    Maybe balancing something that has the same function but performs it in a different way is harder.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by gordiflu
    Originally posted by StanlyStanko
    Originally posted by Cromica
    lol they banned me from the forums for saying that this patch still gives me no reason to log in, the mods over there must be descendants of the stasi.

    They already got your money. They don't have to care about you.

    Becouse B2P is the best model, right? Right?

     

    B2P is a good model yes from financial point of view however i am not so sure when it comes to support from the gaming companies.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by gordiflu
    Originally posted by StanlyStanko
    Originally posted by Cromica
    lol they banned me from the forums for saying that this patch still gives me no reason to log in, the mods over there must be descendants of the stasi.

    They already got your money. They don't have to care about you.

    Becouse B2P is the best model, right? Right?

     

    B2P is a good model yes from financial point of view however i am not so sure when it comes to support from the gaming companies.

    Clearly Arenanet never add patches or content, Arenanet designers never go into forums and talk with people,..

     

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Orlando, FLPosts: 842Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by gordiflu
    Originally posted by StanlyStanko
    Originally posted by Cromica
    lol they banned me from the forums for saying that this patch still gives me no reason to log in, the mods over there must be descendants of the stasi.

    They already got your money. They don't have to care about you.

    Becouse B2P is the best model, right? Right?

     

    B2P is a good model yes from financial point of view however i am not so sure when it comes to support from the gaming companies.

    Clearly Arenanet never add patches or content, Arenanet designers never go into forums and talk with people,..

     

    That is why their customer service is the worst I have ever experienced from any AAA MMO company. They do release a lot of content though and I give them that. I do prefer the subscription model to avoid the RNG pay to get something practice that seems to be prevalent in B2P and F2P games.

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • cinoscinos LondonPosts: 963Member
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by gordiflu
    Originally posted by StanlyStanko
    Originally posted by Cromica
    lol they banned me from the forums for saying that this patch still gives me no reason to log in, the mods over there must be descendants of the stasi.

    They already got your money. They don't have to care about you.

    Becouse B2P is the best model, right? Right?

     

    B2P is a good model yes from financial point of view however i am not so sure when it comes to support from the gaming companies.

    Clearly Arenanet never add patches or content, Arenanet designers never go into forums and talk with people,..

     

    That is why their customer service is the worst I have ever experienced from any AAA MMO company. They do release a lot of content though and I give them that. I do prefer the subscription model to avoid the RNG pay to get something practice that seems to be prevalent in B2P and F2P games.

    When did you experience this bad customer service though?

    They've ramped up their support staff immensly since launch. Most tickets apparently get answered within a couple of hours at most now. My experience fell in line with that claim too.

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