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The PVP is just not good...

JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon

I kinda called this one a while back when it was talked about. How Cryptic never has been capable of landing any form of decent pvp. Well as expected, this game is no acception to that rule (in its current state). 

As of right now we are limited to a handful of simplistic and tiny domination maps. Nothing to see here at all, you run in and you kill someone or you die. Doesn't really matter since you are back into the fray in under 10 seconds most of the time. I can already see the battle from my respawn point. This is fast food pvp at at finest (or worst).

Like past titles we have both outrageously overpowered classes (rogue) and insanely underpowered ones (almost everyone else). My Guardian could take a beating and dish out a decent amout of damage vs most classes, but switch over to my Rogue and I could beat anyone else to a pulp in a matter of seconds with virtually no risk to myself. 

Once you have two people on you, your health bar melts away with little ways to escape or even prolong your suffering. While tanking and healing have some limited use in pve, you will find them nearly useless here. This is due to the massive amount of damage output of each class. Without any types of damage reduction in pvp your blocking meter as a Guardian is gone in the blink of an eye and your healing output as a Cleric matters little. At the end of the day, it is a pure dps race with a little control thrown in. Since the Rogue has the best dps and some forms of single target control, they get to be kings of the 1v1 here. 

You would think by now they could fake it when it came to pvp, but it just falls flat on its face as if they are not even trying. 

I will continue to hope for the best with the Foundry, but if you want to jump into an instant pvp match, there are FAR better choices that already exist in the MMO market. If you are looking for depth in your pvp, look elsewhere. 

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Comments

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member

    it's basic battleground pvp.. i dunno i thought it was decent overall nothing special but still enjoyable.. 

    not my video just an example

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzF0LMs4hhA

    highly doubt hardcore pvp players are the target audience of this game:)...

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon

    Good video, perfect demonstration of what this is about. High(er) dps classes and run to that potion power up every chance you get, cause you are not getting heals any other way. -laughs- 

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Jyiiga

    Good video, perfect demonstration of what this is about. High dps classes and run to that potion power up every chance you get, cause you are not getting heals any other way. -laughs- 

    pretty much.. i found it fun though for a quick jump in.. nothing i'd do many times a day for long periods of time though

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon

    Right now it looks like your main compalint has to do with balance and way too much dps overall. These are the types of things they work on during open beta leading up to release. I'm not saying they are going to balance everything and make it awesome before they launch, but it is very likely it will get better.

     

    You should submit your opinion to them here as an alternative to coming here and shitting all over them. I'm sure there are more than a few people over there that share your opinion. Whether they listen or not, there will definitely be balancing changes before release.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    it's basic battleground pvp.. i dunno i thought it was decent overall nothing special but still enjoyable.. 

    not my video just an example

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzF0LMs4hhA

    highly doubt hardcore pvp players are the target audience of this game:)...

    Thanks for the vid link Aerowyn. Missed this beta due to the Defiance one and you picked the perfect vid to link to keep me watching :P I have a soft spot for Lindsey Stirling oO

     

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    it's basic battleground pvp.. i dunno i thought it was decent overall nothing special but still enjoyable.. 

    not my video just an example

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzF0LMs4hhA

    highly doubt hardcore pvp players are the target audience of this game:)...

    Thanks for the vid link Aerowyn. Missed this beta due to the Defiance one and you picked the perfect vid to link to keep me watching :P I have a soft spot for Lindsey Stirling oO

     

    ha! she is pretty amazing!

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • wordizwordiz Eugene, ORPosts: 464Member
    Cool vid, kickin ass and takin names. I personally didn't find it bad, and I was PVPing on a control wizard. It's pretty rough as a squishy versus heavies, but I think it's a plus that party roles kind of carry into the battlegrounds. Glad somebody dropped that vid link in response to the complaints, now people can decide for themselves.
  • JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon

    Another thing about all this. You can easily hog potions, so everyone is going to be doing it.

    There is no combat timer/limitation on mounting. If you break away from a battle for even a second or two, you can mount and run to the potion powerup. 

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jyiiga

    Another thing about all this. You can easily hog potions, so everyone is going to be doing it.

    There is no combat timer/limitation on mounting. If you break away from a battle for even a second or two, you can mount and run to the potion powerup. 

    Honestly, the pot just looks like a bad idea. Are they going to design PvP around always having a sitting there? Even when you're full, it appears to act like an invulnerability potion since it persists through combat.

  • JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Jyiiga

    Another thing about all this. You can easily hog potions, so everyone is going to be doing it.

    There is no combat timer/limitation on mounting. If you break away from a battle for even a second or two, you can mount and run to the potion powerup. 

    Honestly, the pot just looks like a bad idea. Are they going to design PvP around always having a sitting there? Even when you're full, it appears to act like an invulnerability potion since it persists through combat.

    Yeah it kinda blows my mind. I keep having flashbacks to me hogging the body armor in Goldeneye as a child. 

  • JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon

    For those not familiar with the icons 1,2,3,4 and 7 are Rogues. Number 5 on the list is a Wizard. Great Weapon Fighters and Cleric at the bottom and my character is the lone Guardian. This is pretty much what you see in each pvp matchup. 

     

  • kaliniskalinis Dexter, MEPosts: 1,428Member

    No wonder so many mmo's have trouble finding fans. Please . I mean come on . The game is in beta. U find bugs u report them ,, They don't do balanceing till the end stages of beta. If u expect a beta to have balanced pvp u really need to just not play it period. 

    Beta is not a preview of the finished game. Its a test to find bugs things that dont work right and in the end balancing and graphic issues that they fix. Really alot of games ui changes from start of beta till end . 

    If u expected this game to play like a finished product in beta no wonder u are disappointed really what a pointless post to start with. 

  • JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kalinis

    No wonder so many mmo's have trouble finding fans. Please . I mean come on . The game is in beta. U find bugs u report them ,, They don't do balanceing till the end stages of beta. If u expect a beta to have balanced pvp u really need to just not play it period. 

    Beta is not a preview of the finished game. Its a test to find bugs things that dont work right and in the end balancing and graphic issues that they fix. Really alot of games ui changes from start of beta till end . 

    If u expected this game to play like a finished product in beta no wonder u are disappointed really what a pointless post to start with. 

    I've lived through to many MMO games and betas to remain the hopeful optimistic. These are mostly stress test weekends at this point. I'm also drawing on my distain for Cryptic's inability to figure out pvp in every game they have ever made. 

    There seems to be this group of people that frequent MMORPG.com that think in a few short weeks developers sprinkle fairy dust and soothe away all these problems. It rarely ever happens. 

    They won't have this figured out by release and we will be lucky if they ever figure it out. 

  • nightfallrobnightfallrob Prescott Valley, AZPosts: 167Member
    Originally posted by Jyiiga
    Originally posted by kalinis

    No wonder so many mmo's have trouble finding fans. Please . I mean come on . The game is in beta. U find bugs u report them ,, They don't do balanceing till the end stages of beta. If u expect a beta to have balanced pvp u really need to just not play it period. 

    Beta is not a preview of the finished game. Its a test to find bugs things that dont work right and in the end balancing and graphic issues that they fix. Really alot of games ui changes from start of beta till end . 

    If u expected this game to play like a finished product in beta no wonder u are disappointed really what a pointless post to start with. 

    I've lived through to many MMO games and betas to remain the hopeful optimistic. These are mostly stress test weekends at this point. I'm also drawing on my distain for Cryptic's inability to figure out pvp in every game they have ever made. 

    There seems to be this group of people that frequent MMORPG.com that think in a few short weeks developers sprinkle fairy dust and soothe away all these problems. It rarely ever happens. 

    They won't have this figured out by release and we will be lucky if they ever figure it out. 

    Agreed. This was their demo of what the game will be like, for the most part. Sure, they'll refine some things, but thinking that there will be a huge difference 2 months from now is a mistake. This game just misses the mark imho.

  • BookahBookah Bar Harbor, MEPosts: 259Member

    This was not my experience @ all. During the battlegrounds i did it was pretty even spread among classes with Controll wizards setting the battle's pace and doing much of the killing. As an OP rogue i spent most of my time Sneaking past the other team to cap there points so we could win. Sure I could focus on the battle in mid but rogues are better suited at ninjaing objectives whenever possible.

    As far as bieng 1 sided i had sevral games where the other team was lvl 17-18 and we were lvl 11 & 12's sure they had a ton more kills but we focused on tactical play and nodes and won every time.

    In fact I found the opposit the PVP Neverwinter was pretty awesome, sry your so qq'ing

    This thread reeks of  QQ & is ill concieved.

    As you say "As of right now we are limited to a handful of simplistic and tiny domination maps" not exactly an e sport now is it.

    image
  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon

    Rooted annimations is what ruins PvP for me in alomst any game..  No freedom of movement means no PvP to enjoy for me.

     

    On top of that, i hope that the only low level PvP zone i saw is not what they plan for all PvP zones. It was just a quickly designed Arena.

     

    I dont see a future for PvP in this game. There are much better games for this.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • GormokGormok memphis, TNPosts: 379Member
    In MMOs rogues or rogue like class are always OP  in pvp. Shealth and high dps along with the abiltiy to vanish in combat makes these classes highly potent. That is why a lot of people look for rouge type classes when they go to or join a new mmo, especially mmos that feature open world pvp. Not to mention they are also the easiest classes to pvp with.
  • DalanonDalanon Warren, OHPosts: 124Member
    I really don't understand why mmo's have to have pvp these days.  There's always balance problems, and i'd rather the dev team work more on giving me new content to explore and better story depth.

    Not all who wander are lost...

  • DeniZgDeniZg ZagrebPosts: 669Member Uncommon

    So, according to OP, PVP is not perfectly balanced in BETA? Wow, I'm shocked.

    Anyway, I played cleric and found it much more fun than GW2 sPVP. Same map type (Domination), but better combat (personal opinion) and at least it has some purpose (you get XP and glory points).

    So, there will be Arena PVP, Cryptic already hinted at large scale PVP (see Andy Velasquez' Forbes interview) and we have indications of open world PVP at end game after selecting your faction.

    I say PVP is in pretty good spot right now, unless Cryptic fails to deliver announced features.

  • red_cruiserred_cruiser Milwaukee, WIPosts: 472Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jyiiga
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Jyiiga

    Another thing about all this. You can easily hog potions, so everyone is going to be doing it.

    There is no combat timer/limitation on mounting. If you break away from a battle for even a second or two, you can mount and run to the potion powerup. 

    Honestly, the pot just looks like a bad idea. Are they going to design PvP around always having a sitting there? Even when you're full, it appears to act like an invulnerability potion since it persists through combat.

    Yeah it kinda blows my mind. I keep having flashbacks to me hogging the body armor in Goldeneye as a child. 

    ...on Oddjob.  The instant mounting, the lack of diversity, the potion all seem like things that a more experienced PvP crew would have been able to get right from the get go.  We are living in a world where the world's most experienced PvP team in the world came up with Ilum so I guess the standards to be a game designer aren't that high.  The video didn't look terrible; but it didn't look good either.

  • sibs4455sibs4455 manchesterPosts: 357Member

    I played about 6 matches yesterday, i have seen this type of pvp many times before in other games, to me it felt lackluster.

    As an example GW1 has much better arena style pvp than NW with many more skills to pick from and a better class balance,this type of pvp brings nothing new to the table. I can think of nurmous ways of how to enchance the enjoyment of arena pvp yet a group of pvp game designers cannot, something is very wrong there.

    As for some people saying this is beta and many changes will be forthcoming well i don't believe it, what you see here will not be updated much if at all.

    Still i maybe wrong and if so i will tip my cap to them.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by sibs4455

    I played about 6 matches yesterday, i have seen this type of pvp many times before in other games, to me it felt lackluster.

    As an example GW1 has much better arena style pvp than NW with many more skills to pick from and a better class balance,this type of pvp brings nothing new to the table. I can think of nurmous ways of how to enchance the enjoyment of arena pvp yet a group of pvp game designers cannot, something is very wrong there.

    As for some people saying this is beta and many changes will be forthcoming well i don't believe it, what you see here will not be updated much if at all.

    Still i maybe wrong and if so i will tip my cap to them.

    I really doubt in regards to PvP. I don't get the impression that is one of their main focal points. This really isn't going to be a game for the PvP enthusiast.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Dalanon
    I really don't understand why mmo's have to have pvp these days.  There's always balance problems, and i'd rather the dev team work more on giving me new content to explore and better story depth.

    You know I tend to agree. In some cases I wish they would just leave it out. Then I wouldn't feel obligated to seek out the most bang for my buck in the pvp side crap. Instead I would just play what I like the looks of. 

    Originally posted by Gormok
    In MMOs rogues or rogue like class are always OP  in pvp. Shealth and high dps along with the abiltiy to vanish in combat makes these classes highly potent. That is why a lot of people look for rouge type classes when they go to or join a new mmo, especially mmos that feature open world pvp. Not to mention they are also the easiest classes to pvp with.

    The fact that they are almost always OP makes it twice as funny. If you go back to their D&D roots, they are by no means some alpha class. Its video game makers that twist them into that. 

    Originally posted by DeniZg

    So, according to OP, PVP is not perfectly balanced in BETA? Wow, I'm shocked.

    I already commented on a similar reply. 

     

  • HeroEvermoreHeroEvermore salem, ORPosts: 672Member
    I thought the pvp was frikn sweet but im not a hardcore pvper (i was grand mashal in vanilla WoW, i just dont NEED pvp to have fun in an rpg). I did manage to go 15-0 (great wep fighter) in my FIRST BG though with my cleric buddy healing us. Had a blast. PvP is always fun with friends though. The 1 thing I DISLIKED about the pvp. The maps. My goodness were they bland. This was just one mode Domination though so I have faith we will see disimilar areas soon enough :D

    Hero Evermore
    Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982.
    Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dalanon
    I really don't understand why mmo's have to have pvp these days.  There's always balance problems, and i'd rather the dev team work more on giving me new content to explore and better story depth.

    Because i enjoy a good PvP match, PvP is dynamic and allows players to show if they are really good with their characters.  I just love the leveling and the pve endgame, but only a PvP match makes me break a sweat, makes my adrenaline pump around.. 

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

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