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Worst class gameplay in last 10 years

LobotomistLobotomist ZagrebPosts: 5,057Member Uncommon

On dawn of its release , i wrote a lot about how SWTOR should be B2P. And how it will not survive lot as P2P.

This actually happened much faster than any of us anticipated. And to good result. Swtor is teeming with players , and its actually quite fun now ...

well except (and something i didnt know before )

The worst skill design in modern MMO !

 

Most of  the skills on your skill bar do exactly the same thing with only slight variation. Attack that does 100 , second does 110, third does 110 but is dot , fourth does 150 but with 3 strikes ... and so on.

Its below even EQ2 standards. In fact I never played MMO that people could not even make skill rotation that made sence.

Perhaps its just classes i played.

But it really makes combat a chore.

 

 

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Comments

  • Cod_EyeCod_Eye jarrowPosts: 1,016Member
    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    On dawn of its release , i wrote a lot about how SWTOR should be B2P. And how it will not survive lot as P2P.

    This actually happened much faster than any of us anticipated. And to good result. Swtor is teeming with players , and its actually quite fun now ...

    well except (and something i didnt know before )

    The worst skill design in modern MMO !

     

    Most of  the skills on your skill bar do exactly the same thing with only slight variation. Attack that does 100 , second does 110, third does 110 but is dot , fourth does 150 but with 3 strikes ... and so on.

    Its below even EQ2 standards. In fact I never played MMO that people could not even make skill rotation that made sence.

    Perhaps its just classes i played.

    But it really makes combat a chore.

     

     

    A game doesnt become more fun from going p2p to f2p,  SwtoR released with a large player base and they still left in their masses.  It may have more players now because of the f2p model, but it certainly isnt more fun than before.

  • tokinitokini third hut on the leftPosts: 341Member Common

    i seem to remember early on how the animations were supposed to make combat less 'boring'.  to be fair, some of the animations are pretty cool. while killing the normal mobs its fine, you use attack A, see one animation...next time attack B and see something else, doing more or less the same amount of damage (as you mentioned). most things dievery quickly while leveling.

    now the problem begins, as this idea falls to pieces against anything that requires more than a few attacks to kill.  it also suffers when you are the type of person that only plays one class/character. Bioware wanted, no EXPECTED that people would  be leveling every class, and maybe even mutliplies of ach class, on each faction, for the storylines. while many people have indeed done this, many others had no interest in such a thing, especially since the story took you through the same locales anyway. im sure EA/bioware were truly stunned when people began leaving in droves, after having completed only one class story.

    chalk it up to another design miscalculation, fluff over substance.

  • StrommStromm BrisbanePosts: 243Member
    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    On dawn of its release , i wrote a lot about how SWTOR should be B2P. And how it will not survive lot as P2P.

    This actually happened much faster than any of us anticipated. And to good result. Swtor is teeming with players , and its actually quite fun now ...

    well except (and something i didnt know before )

    The worst skill design in modern MMO !

     

    Most of  the skills on your skill bar do exactly the same thing with only slight variation. Attack that does 100 , second does 110, third does 110 but is dot , fourth does 150 but with 3 strikes ... and so on.

    Its below even EQ2 standards. In fact I never played MMO that people could not even make skill rotation that made sence.

    Perhaps its just classes i played.

    But it really makes combat a chore.

     

     

    They basically copied WoW from early BC. Classes, talent trees and skills were all very ... familiar. My Sith Warrior played pretty much exactly like my Orc Warrior, with the most noticeable difference being the lightsabre leap instead of ground based charge.

    I agree 100%, they had too many skills that could have been consolidated into a much smaller set, but WoW also suffered from that during early BC.

    The Sith Warrior also had issues with skill art impacting gameplay. Not being able to block during certain animations, being rooted during the animation, etc. Beginner errors that never should have come out of a team like BW.

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXPosts: 3,493Member Uncommon

    Funny you should use the Sith Warrior as your choice in this discussion. If you think SWTOR has the worst gameplay in the last 10 years of gaming because your Sith Warrior doesn't have a decent rotation to build upon, maybe you need to get past level 10. There is by far more than 3 abilities and no, they don't all do just direct damage or damage over time. In fact, Sith Warriors are currently one of the most OPed classes in PvP due to an ability called SMASH.

    SWTOR isn't the worst gameplay in the past 10 years, it just didn't bring anything new to the table in regards to it.

    EDIT: If you want to discuss the worst gameplay in MMO's in the past 10 years, go play Eve Online and tell me how exciting that is.

    image

  • DakeruDakeru Posts: 1,653Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    Most of  the skills on your skill bar do exactly the same thing with only slight variation. Attack that does 100 , second does 110, third does 110 but is dot , fourth does 150 but with 3 strikes ... and so on. 

    You just described my level 30 sage perfectly. But this is why I'm not scared about not having enough skillslots and keybinds. In the end I will just dump the useless dots and only go for those, that got useful boosts from the skilltree and concentrate more on healing.

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  • simpliussimplius nakskovPosts: 1,043Member Uncommon

    some of the skills are great,,like force leap, and cover

    but why have 4 differen versions of zapping?

    why can my gun suddenly heal people, instead of hurting them?

    the skills should have had at least one more year of development and tweaking

  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member
    I just wanted to say that I like the OP's Public Enemy quote. That and all these Scarlet Blade Ads are hilarious.
  • KareliaKarelia HeraklionPosts: 668Member
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye
    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    On dawn of its release , i wrote a lot about how SWTOR should be B2P. And how it will not survive lot as P2P.

    This actually happened much faster than any of us anticipated. And to good result. Swtor is teeming with players , and its actually quite fun now ...

    well except (and something i didnt know before )

    The worst skill design in modern MMO !

     

    Most of  the skills on your skill bar do exactly the same thing with only slight variation. Attack that does 100 , second does 110, third does 110 but is dot , fourth does 150 but with 3 strikes ... and so on.

    Its below even EQ2 standards. In fact I never played MMO that people could not even make skill rotation that made sence.

    Perhaps its just classes i played.

    But it really makes combat a chore.

     

     

    A game doesnt become more fun from going p2p to f2p,  SwtoR released with a large player base and they still left in their masses.  It may have more players now because of the f2p model, but it certainly isnt more fun than before.

     

    this

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member

    The main problem with skills is that it's not obvious which ones should be used for any given talent focus.  You get a ton of skills that seem like they overlap, and can feel overwhelmed if you just try and use them all.  Most classes and builds in the game really only use about 10 skills total, give or take a few, with many being longer cooldown stuff.

    They kind of did a poor job with the design, in that regard.  It's also a little on the boring side, in that a lot of classes basically just use whatever is off the cooldown once you've started your opening rotation.

    You make me like charity

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    Please...now you're just exaggerating to a ridiculous degree. Lot of things to balk about with this game but "worst class gameplay in ten years" isn't even remotely one of them.

    Anyways, I thought you weren't even able to play this game right now? So how the hell do you know how the gameplay is currently?

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • ThebigbopperThebigbopper melbournePosts: 114Member
    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    On dawn of its release , i wrote a lot about how SWTOR should be B2P. And how it will not survive lot as P2P.

    This actually happened much faster than any of us anticipated. And to good result. Swtor is teeming with players , and its actually quite fun now ...

    well except (and something i didnt know before )

    The worst skill design in modern MMO !

     

    Most of  the skills on your skill bar do exactly the same thing with only slight variation. Attack that does 100 , second does 110, third does 110 but is dot , fourth does 150 but with 3 strikes ... and so on.

    Its below even EQ2 standards. In fact I never played MMO that people could not even make skill rotation that made sence.

    Perhaps its just classes i played.

    But it really makes combat a chore.

     

     

      How is what you described much different than any other mmo of the last 10 yrs? It is not even true in the sense it has disrupts,roots and various other abilities. If it is not healing or placing protections...guess what the skill probably does damage or place dots duh...... It has abilities that have a bigger payload but take longer to activate.

     You could criticise the game for not being unique enough...i get that..... but what you have descibed generally does not differ than just about any mmo i have played in the last 10 yrs and i have played a few.

     

  • Methos12Methos12 Maladis 46Posts: 1,234Member Uncommon

    I dislike the fact that mirrored classes are literally the same which means there are effectively only four classes in the game. WAR, despite its other failings, had interesting archetype mirrors that didn't always feel like you were playing the same thing as the other side except re-skinned and had, in my opinion at least, some of the most entertaining classes to play with. TOR could've used more of that instead of, for example; Trooper feeling like a cheap knock-off of the Bounty Hunter with bland "shoot different colored lasers" instead of rocket pack, flame thrower, etc.

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    Nature without Magic is without wonder or miracle.
    .........
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    Magic without Nature is formless and useless.
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  • LobotomistLobotomist ZagrebPosts: 5,057Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Thebigbopper
    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    On dawn of its release , i wrote a lot about how SWTOR should be B2P. And how it will not survive lot as P2P.

    This actually happened much faster than any of us anticipated. And to good result. Swtor is teeming with players , and its actually quite fun now ...

    well except (and something i didnt know before )

    The worst skill design in modern MMO !

     

    Most of  the skills on your skill bar do exactly the same thing with only slight variation. Attack that does 100 , second does 110, third does 110 but is dot , fourth does 150 but with 3 strikes ... and so on.

    Its below even EQ2 standards. In fact I never played MMO that people could not even make skill rotation that made sence.

    Perhaps its just classes i played.

    But it really makes combat a chore.

     

     

      How is what you described much different than any other mmo of the last 10 yrs? It is not even true in the sense it has disrupts,roots and various other abilities. If it is not healing or placing protections...guess what the skill probably does damage or place dots duh...... It has abilities that have a bigger payload but take longer to activate.

     You could criticise the game for not being unique enough...i get that..... but what you have descibed generally does not differ than just about any mmo i have played in the last 10 yrs and i have played a few.

     

    I have played every MMO in last 10 years (give or take few obscure asian F2P)

    And I can tell you not even most old school MMOs that came pre WoW have such bad skill design in relation to what skills do , when to use them and how do they relate each to other.

    Infact the only similar example i could think of is sorcerer in EQ2 , since it had lot of skills that do mostly same thing. But on other hand it also had whole loads of skills and perhaps that was the point.

    Except of that, heck even Anarchy Online has more logical and fun skill rotation. Its wonder how anyone that played MMO in his life came up with something like that.

    image

  • HeroEvermoreHeroEvermore salem, ORPosts: 672Member

    I played a Sith Sorc and I personally LOVED MY SKILLS!!!!! PEW PEW PEW eat my lasers!

    The gameplay however...lulz

    Hero Evermore
    Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982.
    Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member Common
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly

    Please...now you're just exaggerating to a ridiculous degree. Lot of things to balk about with this game but "worst class gameplay in ten years" isn't even remotely one of them.

    I agree. The gameplay is fine. I've played far worse. 

     

     

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • JetrpgJetrpg Whitehouse, OHPosts: 2,376Member
    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    On dawn of its release , i wrote a lot about how SWTOR should be B2P. And how it will not survive lot as P2P.

    This actually happened much faster than any of us anticipated. And to good result. Swtor is teeming with players , and its actually quite fun now ...

    well except (and something i didnt know before )

    The worst skill design in modern MMO !

     

    Most of  the skills on your skill bar do exactly the same thing with only slight variation. Attack that does 100 , second does 110, third does 110 but is dot , fourth does 150 but with 3 strikes ... and so on.

    Its below even EQ2 standards. In fact I never played MMO that people could not even make skill rotation that made sence.

    Perhaps its just classes i played.

    But it really makes combat a chore.

    I would actually argue that GW2 has the Worst CLASS gameplay in 10 years. Its everyoen is dps .. and some people do a few other things on top of dps... I love the world and the graphics the movement .. the class bsed system /balance is awful.

    SWTOR wasn't that bad classes had roles a bit of hybriding not bad at all really.. combat wasn't smooth as most AAA mmos infact it was kinda shitty. The game itself was anything but robust, but as far as class skills and gameplay .. pretty solid.

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  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Centreville, VAPosts: 1,690Member Uncommon

    I love all SWTOR skills for all classes... true though that to be actually good you need to figure out how to use efficiently what you have:) not as easy as some think....

    and that's all what counts for me :) as it's my fun and nobody's else image

     

    image
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  • DavynelordDavynelord Atlanta, GAPosts: 122Member

    This thread just proves that every MMO is not for everyone.   But just because you may not like how a game functions, in no way means it's the worst game ever made.  so we shouldn't make such generalized statements.  

     

    But overall, The importance of skills in TOR seem to be minimal on their own...they just seem to be a baseline catalyst for skill tree talents..that's where the uniqueness is...in the skill tree.    So yes a lot of skills do the same thing, but many of them change into something different depending on what talents you take from the skill trees.  So with that, each class becomes something slightly different once you choose a build from one of the 3 skill trees.

     

    A scoundrel sawbones (healer) isn't anything like a scoundrel scrapper.

    A jedi guardian defense build is nothing like a jedi focus build.

    A commando healer isn't anything like a command assault specialists.

     

    Even though you will have the same baseline skills no matter what tree you spec into, the overall importance and value of each skill changes based on what talent you spec into.   This then changes the skill rotation you use as well as make some skills more important while others become useless.  

    For example, my guardian has no use for slash or riposte when I'm focus build...but when I'm defense build, they both become more important as part of my rotation due to the fact that I'll need a skill for doing damage (slash) and need to use riposte on every cooldown due to the talent the makes it proc and add extra defense when you use the skill...but in the focus build, the skill does nothing but add a free attack that's off the global cooldown....but since I'm using other abilities that need to use my resources (focus) to build up singularities for my massive force sweep crit's, I tend not to use nor need riposte except when all my skills are cooling down.

    Then there is the fact that some skills are more or less PVE based (such as low proc stuns) and others are more PVP based (such as force/tech based attacks)....so even though two skills are similar in damage, they become more important under different circumstances.    You also need one skill to setup some burst damage of some sort....such as once you apply 5 stacks of sunder armor, suddenly some of those useless non-force/tech based skills do insane damage and can be used to boost your DPS.

     

    Bottom line, it's all about wether your PVE based, PVP based, both and/or what build and talents you choose from the skill tree.    If that makes the game have bad skill design, then that's your opinion..but again, it doesn't make SWTOR the worst game ever made.

  • simpliussimplius nakskovPosts: 1,043Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly

    Please...now you're just exaggerating to a ridiculous degree. Lot of things to balk about with this game but "worst class gameplay in ten years" isn't even remotely one of them.

    Anyways, I thought you weren't even able to play this game right now? So how the hell do you know how the gameplay is currently?

    if they havent done a revamp,,gameplay will be the same

    but yes, it is a slight exaggeration

    that doesnt help the game much, though

  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member
    I'll leave this here; the game would benefit from dual-spec in my opinion.
  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Calgary, ABPosts: 2,156Member

    OP just described what WoW is like, ta daaaaa Bioware/EA basicall copied WoW (and we TOLD them we didn't want a WoW copy back in beta before they changed it to a WoW copy).


    And yes after F2P the servers may seem crammed, but like I said in another post, 0 of ~500 guild members online, 0 friends online and no familiar names around, they're probably mostly post-F2P players.

    image
    image

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    On dawn of its release , i wrote a lot about how SWTOR should be B2P. And how it will not survive lot as P2P.

    This actually happened much faster than any of us anticipated. And to good result. Swtor is teeming with players , and its actually quite fun now ...

    well except (and something i didnt know before )

    The worst skill design in modern MMO !

     

    Most of  the skills on your skill bar do exactly the same thing with only slight variation. Attack that does 100 , second does 110, third does 110 but is dot , fourth does 150 but with 3 strikes ... and so on.

    Its below even EQ2 standards. In fact I never played MMO that people could not even make skill rotation that made sence.

    Perhaps its just classes i played.

    But it really makes combat a chore.

    i don't agree.

    my agent had stuns. kicks. dmg from front, from behind, with knife (melee), with rifle (range),

    granades to stun or blind, to dmg,

    a stealth and special moves here again,

     

     

    looks like my standard rogue with a twist (rifle). not much worse than anywhere else.

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,009Member Uncommon
    Lobotomist is right though.  Most of the skills are redundant.  Take some talents for example.  They will reduce, let's say dmg, for 1 point.  Seriously?  Why is this even a talent?  Sadly, some of these non-sensical skills are present in newly released MMOs, such as GW2.  But why increase and decrease something by 1 point?  Give us something more meaningful and exciting to use.
  • DavynelordDavynelord Atlanta, GAPosts: 122Member
    Originally posted by observer
    Lobotomist is right though.  Most of the skills are redundant.  Take some talents for example.  They will reduce, let's say dmg, for 1 point.  Seriously?  Why is this even a talent?  Sadly, some of these non-sensical skills are present in newly released MMOs, such as GW2.  But why increase and decrease something by 1 point?  Give us something more meaningful and exciting to use.

    after having looked into the game mechanics, I find that some talents are just misplaced in the wrong trees (they are too high up in the tree or don't have synergy with anything in the same tree)....I guess that's why they (Devs) keep moving talents around from tree to tree...seems they are trying to get it right...

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