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Disappointed in Turbine

WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 664Member Uncommon

Out of nothing more than sheer bordom and the desire to play some thing "new" or in this case something I haven't played in forever. I decided to give LoTRO a shot.

 

I had stopped playing back before Moria expansion came out and LONG before it went F2P. I believe back then the level cap was 50.

 

Figuring "Hey it's Turbine!" they were always a pretty good company... I would be able to use the over 20K turbine points I accumulated in DDO on my LoTRO account... well that is NOT THE CASE! I confirmed this with various official sources after I was frantic to find out WTF.

This is such a stab in the back! I mean 20k turbine points in LoTRO is roughly worth $200 cash. The valuation between DDO and LoTRO seem similar and even so it is the same company so there should be some form of conversion. I mean hell even the worst of some of the Korean FTP games use a single currency throughout their game catalog. Only the lowest of the low make their currency game specific.

 

This game also seems to be nickle and diming people to death... The cash shop is jam packed with all sorts of stuff, some of which appears to be P2W.

I saw items such as Perm +10 stat boosts (can these be aquired through normal game play?) I know in DDO they sell stat tomes but they can be found as loot in game.

I also saw that the expansion is very expensive as well... I mean $39 for the "triple pack" of the prior expansions plus $39 for the Rohan ex pac. Is the $80 worth it? Does this include all the content they are trying to nickle and dime me for in game?

 

This is one of the reasons I hate F2P , see even as a sub paying customer gladly plunking down my $14.99 a month all that gets me is a few points each month along with some "as long as I keep subscribing" things like bag slots and character slots" I am still clubbed over the head with a cash shop full of items, boosts, perks, mounts, convenience items, that would have normally been part of the game under a standard sub model OR earned in game...

 

I have no problem paying for my entertainment... I just hate being nickle and dimed by some shiloc company while I actively pay for something that should already be included in my subscription.

 

I guess what I am trying to ask... Is it worth it?

What are your other Hobbies?

Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

Comments

  • David_LopanDavid_Lopan Madison, WIPosts: 808Member Uncommon
    I would just f2p to 20 and sub afterwards. You will see if you like it or not. I think it is a great game with one of the best communities in all of gaming. It gets a bit grindy at times but doesnt all mmos?
  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

    I agree that they are nickle and diming people to death in this game. When they released this expac and the cost was $70 on release that was it for me. 

    I have to disagree with you tho, it's not the product of F2P but the product of greedy practices.

    F2P when done correctly doesn't have P2W (LOTRO), doesn't manipulate the loot to prevent people from getting the only currency in the game(GW2), and doesn't require a subscription for a severely nerfed gameplay system(SWTOR).

  • leojreimrocleojreimroc Toronto, ONPosts: 371Member

    I agree with some of the things that you are saying.  LOTRO is a bit different than some other f2p games though.  You can very easily acquire quite a bit of TP just by playing the game.  By maxing out 1 character, you can easily get at least 2-3k points, just by doing regular gameplay.  That that changes the whole turbine point to real money conversion. 

     

    I sort of agree that there should be a conversion rate for all their games though.  This might get complicated however because again, you can easily acquire points through in-game means.  So if one game is really easy to get points, while the other is harder, they have to take that into account.  Not to mention the people playing one game would complain that the other game has a huge advantage in getting points etc etc.  This is something that they would have needed to have planned and thought out from the very beginning, which is very hard when 2 different games start off not being f2p.  Both games are probably really different so making conversions might be hard.  Still, they should try to get something going, even if it's not a 1 to 1 conversion.

     

    As for your last question as to whether it's worth it to buy, well that's a pretty subjective question.  What level is your main character?  Do you want to start a new one?  My advice is to start leveling again, and to buy zones in eriador first that you need for leveling.  You don't necessarily need to buy everything on your first playthrough; I didn't.  Buy as you advance and as needed.  Oh, and wait for sales, everything always goes on sale  If your main is level 50 though, you'll probably need to buy moria if you don't have it, and go from there.

     

    Lastly, if you're happy with paying a sub (as you mentioned in your post), simply buy $15 worth of zones/expansions every month.  This is a much better option than subbing imo.  Before long, you'll have everything unlocked, and your "sub" will be over and you'll get to enjoy the whole game. btw, that's what I did, I spent a bit at a time, and now, I have everything unlocked.

  • WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 664Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by leojreimroc

     As for your last question as to whether it's worth it to buy, well that's a pretty subjective question.  What level is your main character?  Do you want to start a new one?  My advice is to start leveling again, and to buy zones in eriador first that you need for leveling.  You don't necessarily need to buy everything on your first playthrough; I didn't.  Buy as you advance and as needed.  Oh, and wait for sales, everything always goes on sale  If your main is level 50 though, you'll probably need to buy moria if you don't have it, and go from there.

    Thanks for all the replies...

    I have a main on Landroval which is lvl 50... however the game has changed so much since I last played it will probably take just as long to figue out what everything does and where I am at in game than it would to just roll fresh. I also read that Brandywine is a good server and will probably roll a character there.

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • xalvixalvi brooklyn, NYPosts: 329Member
    Originally posted by GreenSpot
    I think it is a great game with one of the best communities in all of gaming. It gets a bit grindy at times but doesnt all mmos?

     

    It gets a bit grindy at time? No, it is a complete grind the whole game is. This has one of the most grinds from all the MMOs i have played, and it is not pretty. From grining all the way to 85 to doing those pathetic deeds/traits, to endgame legenadries.

    Deciding if something is a great game is your opinion, but a fact is that their combat system is really really outdated.

     

    But ya, it has one of the best communities in gaming.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,717Member Uncommon

    +1 to what leojreimroc wrote.

    TP's are separate because they're easily farmable, so financially it wouldn't be a clever choice to merge them.

    Expansions aren't needed until you reach 50 with the new alt and you decide that you like the game enough to continue. Most likely there will be sales while you play. Though I have to notice that $39 is not a bad price for the triple pack, and there was even a $20 sale on that earlier which was almost a steal :)

  • trancejeremytrancejeremy St. Louis, MOPosts: 1,222Member
    Originally posted by xalvi
    Originally posted by GreenSpot
    I think it is a great game with one of the best communities in all of gaming. It gets a bit grindy at times but doesnt all mmos?

     

    It gets a bit grindy at time? No, it is a complete grind the whole game is. This has one of the most grinds from all the MMOs i have played, and it is not pretty. From grining all the way to 85 to doing those pathetic deeds/traits, to endgame legenadries.

    Deciding if something is a great game is your opinion, but a fact is that their combat system is really really outdated.

     

    But ya, it has one of the best communities in gaming.

     

    I agree with the grinding part. But I always think I must be playing a different game, because it's by far the worst community in any MMORPG I've played. Everyone is so stuck up, no one talks or helps other people.

     

    I mean, seriously, I've played the game for I think almost 5 years now (started in 2008) and I think I've grouped twice? And it's the only one that I have regularly played that I never got any invites to a guild, much less joined one.

    R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there

  • KualaBDKualaBD Groton, CTPosts: 131Member
    Originally posted by Wighty 

    Figuring "Hey it's Turbine!" they were always a pretty good company... I would be able to use the over 20K turbine points I accumulated in DDO on my LoTRO account... well that is NOT THE CASE! I confirmed this with various official sources after I was frantic to find out WTF.

    This is such a stab in the back! I mean 20k turbine points in LoTRO is roughly worth $200 cash. The valuation between DDO and LoTRO seem similar and even so it is the same company so there should be some form of conversion. I mean hell even the worst of some of the Korean FTP games use a single currency throughout their game catalog. Only the lowest of the low make their currency game specific.

    The reason Turbine can't convert the points over is that Wizards of the Coast has to get a cut of all points purchased for DDO since it's their license and Tolkien Enterprises has to get a cut of all points purchased through LotRO since it's their license.  If points could be transferred then money could go to the wrong license holder because someone would buy points for DDO, meaning WotC gets the money, but the actual points get transferred and spent in LotRO where Tolkien Enterprises get none of the money since they weren't purchased there even though that's where the points were actually spent.

    Then, if to fix the above problem Turbine only paid the companies based on where the points were spent, and NOT where they were bought, then how does Turbine figure out which points (bought or free) were spent?  If you have $20 worth of free points and $20 worth of bought points and you then buy $20 worth of cosmetics in LotRO did you spend your bought points or free points?  Cause if you spent your bought points then Tolkien guys should get a cut but if you spent your free points then Tolkien guys get nothing.

    So, to avoid all that hassle they keep the points separate for each game.  Points purchased in DDO stay in DDO and WotC immediately gets their cut and same for LotRO.

    This game also seems to be nickle and diming people to death... The cash shop is jam packed with all sorts of stuff, some of which appears to be P2W.

    I saw items such as Perm +10 stat boosts (can these be aquired through normal game play?) I know in DDO they sell stat tomes but they can be found as loot in game.

    The stat boosts are the same ones earned through the trait system which is earned by playing.  Buying them simply means you don't have to grind achievements in-game for them.  This makes it a convenience rather than an advantage and thus avoids the p2w scenario.

    There are, however, other items in the store that MIGHT be considered p2w such as the low level gear that's better than anything earnable in-game for the same level range as well as the store-only healing potions that are on a separate timer than the in-game potions.  However, since store points can be earned for free and thus you can buy these p2w items for free it's not really p2w if you don't mind grinding the free points.

    I also saw that the expansion is very expensive as well... I mean $39 for the "triple pack" of the prior expansions plus $39 for the Rohan ex pac. Is the $80 worth it? Does this include all the content they are trying to nickle and dime me for in game?

    Which is why I never bought it and one of the reasons I no longer play.  :)

     

  • zimboy69zimboy69 chicargo, FLPosts: 374Member Uncommon

    ive no idea if this still works but this is what i did   ive also done this with eve as well

     

    i purchased the box set for mines of moria and  the starter box

     

    played the game to level  20-30  and then inserted my code it gave me a fair few other things as well  like a month sub and  a few items 

    but best of all the  starter box and moria was only £1.99 so i thought it was a bargin

    but it was a while ago when i did this so ive no idea even if  you can still do this

     

     

     

    image

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,717Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zimboy69

    ive no idea if this still works but this is what i did   ive also done this with eve as well

     

    i purchased the box set for mines of moria and  the starter box

     

    played the game to level  20-30  and then inserted my code it gave me a fair few other things as well  like a month sub and  a few items 

    but best of all the  starter box and moria was only £1.99 so i thought it was a bargin

    It's still working - if you can find a Moria box cheap. I did the same at the f2p launch, made an extra acc and boosted it to vip with a cheap Moria box :) it indeed was a bargain.

  • PWN_FACEPWN_FACE SeoulPosts: 670Member

    It's a good, well crafted game for more mature (here I mean older and more patient) players. I'm reading LOTR again, so playing LOTRO is a bit more fun for that reason. Those are reasons I like to play. 

     

    While leveling, I have to agree with the comment that it's rare to group. I'm level 30 and still haven't been in a single group. I haven't found it necessary (a), and (b) I don't see other people playing where I am. I just see them in Bree when I go to the bank or to craft. There are people in the starter zones. I assume I will see more people in the higher level content.

     

    I feel the nickle-and-diming feeling, though, because I feel discouraged from rolling alts as I would normally do. I wish there were a way (like The Secret World) where you could unlock stuff account wide, even if it's for a slightly higher fee. This game will be really expensive for me if I get stuff for all my alts. And if I can't play a bunch of toons, I am less likely to play LOTRO in the long run. And I'm a subscriber. I think you should get more stuff as a subscriber besides the measly 500 TP.

     

    I don't feel the game is a grind at all. I usually play with rested xp, though. I find that I quickly outlevel content and have to move on through the zones faster than I thought I would. I've mainly been just doing the chapter quests and killing stuff as I travel between places harvesting, etc and enjoying the world, so maybe I just grind for fun.

  • WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 664Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by trancejeremy
    Originally posted by xalvi
    Originally posted by GreenSpot
    I think it is a great game with one of the best communities in all of gaming. It gets a bit grindy at times but doesnt all mmos?

     

    It gets a bit grindy at time? No, it is a complete grind the whole game is. This has one of the most grinds from all the MMOs i have played, and it is not pretty. From grining all the way to 85 to doing those pathetic deeds/traits, to endgame legenadries.

    Deciding if something is a great game is your opinion, but a fact is that their combat system is really really outdated.

     

    But ya, it has one of the best communities in gaming.

     

    I agree with the grinding part. But I always think I must be playing a different game, because it's by far the worst community in any MMORPG I've played. Everyone is so stuck up, no one talks or helps other people.

     

    I mean, seriously, I've played the game for I think almost 5 years now (started in 2008) and I think I've grouped twice? And it's the only one that I have regularly played that I never got any invites to a guild, much less joined one.

    The jury is out on the community I guess... It seems when you are in the "leet club" it's the best community ever.... however if you are Joe Average player... it's a typcial elitist snub fest...

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 664Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by KualaBD
    Originally posted by Wighty 

    Figuring "Hey it's Turbine!" they were always a pretty good company... I would be able to use the over 20K turbine points I accumulated in DDO on my LoTRO account... well that is NOT THE CASE! I confirmed this with various official sources after I was frantic to find out WTF.

    This is such a stab in the back! I mean 20k turbine points in LoTRO is roughly worth $200 cash. The valuation between DDO and LoTRO seem similar and even so it is the same company so there should be some form of conversion. I mean hell even the worst of some of the Korean FTP games use a single currency throughout their game catalog. Only the lowest of the low make their currency game specific.

    The reason Turbine can't convert the points over is that Wizards of the Coast has to get a cut of all points purchased for DDO since it's their license and Tolkien Enterprises has to get a cut of all points purchased through LotRO since it's their license.  If points could be transferred then money could go to the wrong license holder because someone would buy points for DDO, meaning WotC gets the money, but the actual points get transferred and spent in LotRO where Tolkien Enterprises get none of the money since they weren't purchased there even though that's where the points were actually spent.

    Then, if to fix the above problem Turbine only paid the companies based on where the points were spent, and NOT where they were bought, then how does Turbine figure out which points (bought or free) were spent?  If you have $20 worth of free points and $20 worth of bought points and you then buy $20 worth of cosmetics in LotRO did you spend your bought points or free points?  Cause if you spent your bought points then Tolkien guys should get a cut but if you spent your free points then Tolkien guys get nothing.

    So, to avoid all that hassle they keep the points separate for each game.  Points purchased in DDO stay in DDO and WotC immediately gets their cut and same for LotRO.

    This game also seems to be nickle and diming people to death... The cash shop is jam packed with all sorts of stuff, some of which appears to be P2W.

    I saw items such as Perm +10 stat boosts (can these be aquired through normal game play?) I know in DDO they sell stat tomes but they can be found as loot in game.

    The stat boosts are the same ones earned through the trait system which is earned by playing.  Buying them simply means you don't have to grind achievements in-game for them.  This makes it a convenience rather than an advantage and thus avoids the p2w scenario.

    There are, however, other items in the store that MIGHT be considered p2w such as the low level gear that's better than anything earnable in-game for the same level range as well as the store-only healing potions that are on a separate timer than the in-game potions.  However, since store points can be earned for free and thus you can buy these p2w items for free it's not really p2w if you don't mind grinding the free points.

    I also saw that the expansion is very expensive as well... I mean $39 for the "triple pack" of the prior expansions plus $39 for the Rohan ex pac. Is the $80 worth it? Does this include all the content they are trying to nickle and dime me for in game?

    Which is why I never bought it and one of the reasons I no longer play.  :)

     

    What a great write up... Certainly offers an unbiased look at some of my concerns.

    I can understand about the Turbine points I am just really bummed that I have so many on DDO that are useless for another Turbine points... It is a crappy way to market them becasue they should just call them DDO points and LoTRO points because it gives the impression that they are universal. If this is the case they should allow you to purchase points then APPLY them to what you want to use them for... Let them stay in a universal account pool and then you can permanantly distribute them to the appropriate title so everyone gets their cut.

    Doing it the way they are seems very shady.

     

    Ok so the stat boosts are like grinding those "kill 1000 orcs" deeds (am I correct?) so it's not like I can just keep buying +10 stat boosts and be some god within the game... Makes sense, if that is the case.

     

    I guess I will take another players advice and give it a shot until 20... I get that you can earn the points in game and thats all good and well. Hopefully they expansion packs will go on sale at some point and I can pick up at a steal.

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • charlizdcharlizd sydneyPosts: 922Member

    Not sure that the P2W even matters it is purely a PVE game with PVP side game O.o why is it an issue to have P2W stat boost?? Your sub gets all free updates e.t.c but you have to pay for Expacs just like everyone else, i don't see what is wrong here....TBH i really dont see what they have done wrong, even if the game was not a F2P model you would have had to pay for the Expac so why not now?? they need to make money to be able to produce such things do they not? I agree it is a bit expensive for an Expac on a F2P game with item shop but heh that is how they function as a company.

    I think the problem here is that we feel if a game has F2P in it's title then everything should be free, Every company has very different ways of doing this model and i thnk Turbine is not the best at it but are far from the worst.

    I think Aion has the best F2P model, no restrictions on anything, this is how all games should be if they are going to do a F2P model and just make people pay for Expacs.

    Sorry you feel the way you do, i personally dont play anymore because i feel they dumbed the shit out of the game, especially being able to solo instances, i really felt no need to party with anyone, i know it makes it more fun but instead of trying to chase up a group you can just run it solo.......big load of boring imo, i loved the game when it first released, and even today i think it has some of the best scenery i have seen in any mmo but i just have no desire to play it for the sheer fact it no longer feels like a traditional mmo but moreso a big game that alot of people are doing there own thing on.

    image

  • WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 664Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by charlizd

    Not sure that the P2W even matters it is purely a PVE game with PVP side game O.o why is it an issue to have P2W stat boost?? Your sub gets all free updates e.t.c but you have to pay for Expacs just like everyone else, i don't see what is wrong here....TBH i really dont see what they have done wrong, even if the game was not a F2P model you would have had to pay for the Expac so why not now?? they need to make money to be able to produce such things do they not? I agree it is a bit expensive for an Expac on a F2P game with item shop but heh that is how they function as a company.

    I think the problem here is that we feel if a game has F2P in it's title then everything should be free, Every company has very different ways of doing this model and i thnk Turbine is not the best at it but are far from the worst.

    I think Aion has the best F2P model, no restrictions on anything, this is how all games should be if they are going to do a F2P model and just make people pay for Expacs.

    Sorry you feel the way you do, i personally dont play anymore because i feel they dumbed the shit out of the game, especially being able to solo instances, i really felt no need to party with anyone, i know it makes it more fun but instead of trying to chase up a group you can just run it solo.......big load of boring imo, i loved the game when it first released, and even today i think it has some of the best scenery i have seen in any mmo but i just have no desire to play it for the sheer fact it no longer feels like a traditional mmo but moreso a big game that alot of people are doing there own thing on.

    I have no problem paying for an expansion... I have an issue with being gouged for an expansion... I have grown a custom to EQ2's model where the prior expansions were rolled into the F2P model and you just had to keep current with the latest.

     

    Hell even UO IIRC (or at least back in the day) when you purchased the latest expansion it included ALL prior content.

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • ZackxmZackxm West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 31Member
    some good points in this thread. I was considering playing again also. I also quit right before it turned f2p, all my guys were maxed and I had a guildhouse and didn't see much else fun to do at the time. I'm glad that I read all of this because I think I'll wait on something else instead of jumping back into this games grind. I don't think that I'd like the f2p changes that they made after I left from all that I've read.
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