CRS's WWII Online Forum Moderators are out of control

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  • kakasakikakasaki Lockhart, TXMember UncommonPosts: 1,205
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    I love you guys, you are the new Mortal Online, drama central

    True, but I think the reason people keep beating both these dead horses is because they had so much potential and failed because of bad companies/developers...

    A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  • StugStug Coffee County, TNMember UncommonPosts: 387
    Originally posted by kakasaki
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    I love you guys, you are the new Mortal Online, drama central

    True, but I think the reason people keep beating both these dead horses is because they had so much potential and failed because of bad companies/developers...

    No, that was that other locked thread.

    This thread is about a squad that attempted to harry (I hope they didn't) other players out of the game with incessant claims of "cheat" for the sake of their stats.

     

  • kakasakikakasaki Lockhart, TXMember UncommonPosts: 1,205
    Originally posted by Stug
    Originally posted by kakasaki
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    I love you guys, you are the new Mortal Online, drama central

    True, but I think the reason people keep beating both these dead horses is because they had so much potential and failed because of bad companies/developers...

    No, that was that other locked thread.

    This thread is about a squad that attempted to harry (I hope they didn't) other players out of the game with incessant claims of "cheat" for the sake of their stats.

     

    More of a general statement to Ref's comment. I haven't played WWII online in years so don't feel qualified to make statements about its current state either way...

    A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  • BodkinBarberBodkinBarber BirminghamMember Posts: 106
    Originally posted by Stug
    Originally posted by kakasaki
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    I love you guys, you are the new Mortal Online, drama central

    True, but I think the reason people keep beating both these dead horses is because they had so much potential and failed because of bad companies/developers...

    No, that was that other locked thread.

    This thread is about a squad that attempted to harry (I hope they didn't) other players out of the game with incessant claims of "cheat" for the sake of their stats.

     

    lol jump on the randomer stug. I think he's smart enough to read a thread title

    Threads actually about the conduct of forum moderators, reading always helps

  • StugStug Coffee County, TNMember UncommonPosts: 387
    Originally posted by kakasaki More of a general statement to Ref's comment. I haven't played WWII online in years so don't feel qualified to make statements about its current state either way...

    No worry. S!

  • tom_servotom_servo Indianapolis, INMember Posts: 13
    Originally posted by mrcheapy
    that is what happens when you give people who hardly ever post or hardly ever play the ability to control discussion    i.e sgtfury gvonpaul 

    Pretty funny when you consider gvonpaul has both more playing time and more posts than cheapy...

    Here's the deal: you agreed to the terms of service when you signed up (and every time you log in), you really can't complain when you are punished for violating them. Let me repeat that one more time, you agreed to abide by those terms and by extension to accept the consequences if you do not... Adults do this every day with no problem. Since you are (ostensibly) an adult, that is the expectation.

    When you go to class, or a meeting, or a movie do you stand up and scream, disrupting everyone else's experience, just because you want to? No you don't (or I hope you don't), because the rules prohibit it, and it is just plain rude. The standards of behavior dictate that when you are in someone else's house, you act with respect. Why do you feel that you can come to a website that belongs to a business and be free to act however you want?

    I think I can comfortably speak for most moderators when I say I generally only hand out violations for about one in ten that I see. We want the forums to be a fun place, we all have made good friends there over the years and we want it to continue to be a place where people can gather, mess with each other, and have mature discussions related to the game. I can flat out guarantee each and every one of you complainers that for every TOS warning you have received, there have been >10 violations of the terms without any warning.

    The ones who are warned, and inevitably, banned are the ones who repeatedly push the limits: they harass other players, make open accusations of cheating, and/or post pornography, which is strictly policed in a PG13 environment.

    I personally have much better results when I send someone a PM reminding them that they are in violation (this is not a formal warning, nor does it go on someone's record). most reasonable people respond positively to that and it solves the problem. I would much rather handle issues this way than make it a huge deal. It's a lot less work, believe me.

    Sorry cheapy, but you made your own bed. You repeatedly violated the rules, ignored polite requests to control yourself, and you were banned. You made a second account, with which you did the exact same thing, and it was banned also. The only person to blame here is yourself, and until you realize and accept that, you will be a child, and treated as such.

    Actually, that's a lie. I'm not sorry.

  • BodkinBarberBodkinBarber BirminghamMember Posts: 106

    Hey Tom, I want to have some mature discussions on the following subjects in the barracks:

     

    - Subscription prices

    - 3rd degree price discrimination (new accounts getting reduced permenant deals which veterans cannot choose)

    - How Rapid Assault is progressing (announced 19 months ago with footage)

    - Why where the servers not reset at the same each day (made organising my man bath a real hassle)

     

    Discussions will stay interlectual and I encourage you to deal with anyone who speaks out of line, makes accusations, profanity etc

     

    These will stay on the forums right? I'm sick of the liars JG26, david06 etc saying otherwise

  • tom_servotom_servo Indianapolis, INMember Posts: 13
    Originally posted by BodkinBarber
    Hey Tom, I want to have some mature discussions on the following subjects in the barracks:   - Subscription prices - 3rd degree price discrimination (new accounts getting reduced permenant deals which veterans cannot choose) - How Rapid Assault is progressing (announced 19 months ago with footage) - Why where the servers not reset at the same each day (made organising my man bath a real hassle)   Discussions will stay interlectual and I encourage you to deal with anyone who speaks out of line, makes accusations, profanity etc   These will stay on the forums right? I'm sick of the liars JG26, david06 etc saying otherwise

    I can't guarantee you that someone won't move any thread on any subject. I will say that if it is belligerent and abrasive and written in a way to make CRS look bad, it probably won't survive.

    I'm not saying that you don't have legitimate concerns, either. Perhaps I haven't done a very good job of relating my point, but you have to understand that a company that is struggling has to put on their best face for new customers. It's imperative. There has always been (and always will be) room to disagree with the devs about aspects of the game, it's all in the tone taken.  When a player attacks the devs in the forums, it's bad for everyone's morale. Is there any wonder that, after 11 years they are getting a bit tired of being beat up?

    This is not to say the game is perfect. There are certainly issues that need to be addressed, and I do understand that after playing a game for years, you get frustrated. As an adult, you can either make your points politely in the proper arena, deal with the issues, or move on. Having public tantrums on the message boards of a company that is working their butts off to stay afloat is not a viable option. And rest assured, they are working themselves to an early grave over this game, with very little reward.

    Have you ever read a post by Enigma? if you think he cares about you or any other person playing the game, you haven't looked hard enough. His posts are all about him, and how the game should accomodate him, and everyone else can go to hell. Unless you look good in skinny jeans, and have a different scarf to match every shirt you own, you are a peon as far as he is concerned. He has no intrinsic interest in the integrity of the game or the enjoyment of others; he just wants to protect his stats.

    He treats everyone badly, then tries to put on a "What did I do?" act when he is called on his behavior. He was asked, nicely, many times to keep his accusations out of the forums and he just can't control himself. He believes he should be informed about the results of a cheating accusation, and that is not going to happen. It's against company policy and always has been.

    I'm sorry I can't address your concerns individually, but I am not an official company representative.  I'm just trying to address the topic of this thread.

  • StugStug Coffee County, TNMember UncommonPosts: 387
    Originally posted by Jester6
    Originally posted by tom_servo Have you ever read a post by Enigma? if you think he cares about you or any other person playing the game, you haven't looked hard enough. His posts are all about him, and how the game should accomodate him, and everyone else can go to hell. Unless you look good in skinny jeans, and have a different scarf to match every shirt you own, you are a peon as far as he is concerned. He has no intrinsic interest in the integrity of the game or the enjoyment of others; he just wants to protect his stats.
    [mod edit]

    Plenty of people have already said that he's a damned good pilot.

    However, does being a good player give anyone the right to continuously accuse other players of cheating (when it isn't actually "cheating"), to turn a forums into a cesspool of gangsta speak, troll and be anti-community?

  • StugStug Coffee County, TNMember UncommonPosts: 387
    Originally posted by Jester6
    Originally posted by Stug Plenty of people have already said that he's a damned good pilot. However, does being a good player give anyone the right to continuously accuse other players of cheating (when it isn't actually "cheating"), to turn a forums into a cesspool of gangsta speak, troll and be generally unpleasant?
    [mod edit]

    Simply putting a player on ignore does not mean it isn't polluting the hangar with anti-social, gansgta-speak ridden crap, does it?

    How many kills a day/month etc where JG26 getting?

  • Jester6Jester6 Jersey Shore, PAMember Posts: 5
    Originally posted by Stug Simply putting a player on ignore does not mean it isn't polluting the hangar with anti-social, gansgta-speak ridden crap, does it? How many kills a day/month etc where JG26 getting?

    I'm going to leave it here. I have no idea why people get so bent up at people's forum personalities. Just ignore people if you don't like them!

     

    And I have no idea. Not something I ever kept track of.

  • tom_servotom_servo Indianapolis, INMember Posts: 13
    Originally posted by Jester6
    Originally posted by tom_servo Have you ever read a post by Enigma? if you think he cares about you or any other person playing the game, you haven't looked hard enough. His posts are all about him, and how the game should accomodate him, and everyone else can go to hell. Unless you look good in skinny jeans, and have a different scarf to match every shirt you own, you are a peon as far as he is concerned. He has no intrinsic interest in the integrity of the game or the enjoyment of others; he just wants to protect his stats.
    [mod edit]

    Not at all. I am not butthurt about anything, I'm just presenting another view so people can make their own choice about the game. Fact is, Enigma hasn't been singled out for any special treatment, he just refuses to comply with the terms of his continued use of the service and eventually won't be able to play. He's not going to 'win' any arguments, he's not going to sway anyone's opinion that matters, he's just hurting a game that a lot of people still enjoy playing.

    I'm not disputing his piloting skill in any way. I've seen him do some amazing things in a plane. His reputation as a stellar pilot has, however been replaced by his reputation as a petulant child who won't take 'no' for an answer.

    In any case, He will end up perma banned, and I will still be playing a game I enjoy. No worries.

     

    PS: BERATE- verb (used with object), be·rat·ed, be·rat·ing.

    to scold; rebuke: He berated them in public.

     

     

     
  • BodkinBarberBodkinBarber BirminghamMember Posts: 106
    Originally posted by tom_servo
    Originally posted by BodkinBarber
    Hey Tom, I want to have some mature discussions on the following subjects in the barracks:   - Subscription prices - 3rd degree price discrimination (new accounts getting reduced permenant deals which veterans cannot choose) - How Rapid Assault is progressing (announced 19 months ago with footage) - Why where the servers not reset at the same each day (made organising my man bath a real hassle)   Discussions will stay interlectual and I encourage you to deal with anyone who speaks out of line, makes accusations, profanity etc   These will stay on the forums right? I'm sick of the liars JG26, david06 etc saying otherwise

    I can't guarantee you that someone won't move any thread on any subject. I will say that if it is belligerent and abrasive and written in a way to make CRS look bad, it probably won't survive.

    I'm not saying that you don't have legitimate concerns, either. Perhaps I haven't done a very good job of relating my point, but you have to understand that a company that is struggling has to put on their best face for new customers. It's imperative. There has always been (and always will be) room to disagree with the devs about aspects of the game, it's all in the tone taken.  When a player attacks the devs in the forums, it's bad for everyone's morale. Is there any wonder that, after 11 years they are getting a bit tired of being beat up?

    This is not to say the game is perfect. There are certainly issues that need to be addressed, and I do understand that after playing a game for years, you get frustrated. As an adult, you can either make your points politely in the proper arena, deal with the issues, or move on. Having public tantrums on the message boards of a company that is working their butts off to stay afloat is not a viable option. And rest assured, they are working themselves to an early grave over this game, with very little reward.

    Have you ever read a post by Enigma? if you think he cares about you or any other person playing the game, you haven't looked hard enough. His posts are all about him, and how the game should accomodate him, and everyone else can go to hell. Unless you look good in skinny jeans, and have a different scarf to match every shirt you own, you are a peon as far as he is concerned. He has no intrinsic interest in the integrity of the game or the enjoyment of others; he just wants to protect his stats.

    He treats everyone badly, then tries to put on a "What did I do?" act when he is called on his behavior. He was asked, nicely, many times to keep his accusations out of the forums and he just can't control himself. He believes he should be informed about the results of a cheating accusation, and that is not going to happen. It's against company policy and always has been.

    I'm sorry I can't address your concerns individually, but I am not an official company representative.  I'm just trying to address the topic of this thread.

    I think as gentlemen we can agree that those discussions happening on the barracks will not take place. Ok.

    Dude, though you've changed your tone you're doing the whole empathy approach and giving both sides of the argument which is an argumentive technique whereas up until now you have basically refused to acknowlegde that their is a problem.

    The company is struggling due to it's own decisions. You might sight the financial collapse but tbh I think at most that would see a 40% drop considering the demographic (different discussion all together). Anyway they have/are making the game into a sandbox shooter when they dont understand that their tech, graphics, performance etc just cannot compete. (i'll explore this another time)

    Again the whole "adults" and "children". You come across asking for empathy but your just disguising digs at Enigma, JG26 etc. TBH stuff them, they are no angels (and whether you see them as banter or abusive depends on your attitude towards them). However, forums are not always pretty things, porn, racism etc you get whats coming but I respect them for wanting to play a clean air game while the CRS supporters and mod team are ground guys and will try within means to silence them. Forum hooligasm or not what matters is the game, a game lots of pilots, not just JG26, want to be clean while others, well...

    The 3 core paragraphs of what your saying is basically just a dig at Enigma/JG26 unfortunately so though you hook me in nicely at first your main aim is to derile some individuals. The issue is CRS and moderators doing nothing about pilots exploiting in game. You say it's impossible but seriously if a pilot who notices an EA on his 6 and straight away puts his plane into a vertical dive then has their connection coincidentally taken away at the same time then...hmmm. Their connection was fine for the first 5-15mins of that sortie but then coincidentally dropped. GM's have seen it http://imgur.com/v7ELVxX with the Buzzcam which also allows them to rewind past footage.

    I would not call for a one strike and your out policy as anamonallies do occur. However when pilots regulary do it then you have a problem and there's 3 ways to go about it:

    1) Investigate and punish consistent exploiters

    2) Allow the community to expose players exploiting

    3) Cover it up and punish the people exposing

    Option 3 has been taken.

    Whether you like it or not their is an issue in the airgame with pilots plug pulling. Alot of the skilled air players (the game needs skilled players more than anything) don't care about the ground war or wherever the other side has 1 fighter out of 200. They want clean air battles between top pilots. If the game can't provide it they will go to dedicated air sims which significant amounts have done. More lost subscribers and damage done to one of the neglected parts of the game.

    They don't say they catch cheaters because...they don't. Countless times you'll have players smoking MSP's and FRU's, you report them, target and side chat is filled by multiple players naming the player, asking GM's to do something about it. They don't, you have the same account at a new AO doing the same thing.

    Love the "I'm sorry" bit because... your not, just another argumentertive technique. And you haven't addressed the topic of the thread (unless the thread title is "How Enigma and JG26 are wrong about everything"). Out of your 4 main paragraphs 3 are just a dig at Enigma

    I really can't provide empathy and respect your view when your just littering your post with argumentertive techniques and trying to come across as a victim while making snide comments about some individual that you don't like. There's a problem, CRS (and thus the mods) don't deal with it, the community is punished for dealing with it so the problem is just hushed up.

     

    P.s. Don't forget to get me on my spelling

     

  • tom_servotom_servo Indianapolis, INMember Posts: 13

    I beg to differ. If you look back, you will not find any posts where I claim there are not problems with the game.

    How is a game manager to know that a player went into a dive then disconnected? There is not, as far as I know, any mechanism to view every action by every player at every time. The only thing they have to go on is the word of the player, and I have to tell you Enigma's word is less than golden.

    He has been conducting a not-so-subtle campaign, trying to undermine the GMs and moderators by implying that they are on his side, that they convey special favors to him. He tells GM X that GM Y unbanned him, or that GM Z is feeding him information that he shouldn't have otherwise had. He thinks he is clever, but he is as transparent as my three year old daughter trying to influence me against her little brother.

    So, you'll have to forgive them if they don't take Enigma's word for everything.

    If I am paying for a game, I certainly don't want to be banned on the basis of what some player accuses me of, with no real proof to back it up. I assure you, players are followed with the vulture when these accusations come up, and if any cheating is evident, they are dealt with accordingly. The details of that are not and will never be relayed to the accuser.

    Maybe I do harp on Enigma too much, but he is an easy example to point at and say: "Don't act like this." Regardless of whether or not there is an ignore function available, he is violating the terms he agreed to when he signed up and he agrees to them again every time he logs on. His harassment of new and other players detracts from their gaming experience much more than the loss of a kill credit.

    A business can not allow anarchy on its' playground, it will ultimately cost them more paying customers than the few who pull up their pants and run away every time they don't get what they want. Most of the player base are mature adults who understand this.

  • tom_servotom_servo Indianapolis, INMember Posts: 13

    1) Investigate and punish consistent exploiters They are investigated and punished

    2) Allow the community to expose players exploiting They can report exploiters and cheaters, just not publicly.

    3) Cover it up and punish the people exposing The only reason the exposers are punished is that they (repeatedly) refuse to abide by the terms.

     

    I don't know how much clearer I can be in addressing these issues.

  • BodkinBarberBodkinBarber BirminghamMember Posts: 106
    Originally posted by tom_servo
    I beg to differ. If you look back, you will not find any posts where I claim there are not problems with the game. How is a game manager to know that a player went into a dive then disconnected? There is not, as far as I know, any mechanism to view every action by every player at every time. The only thing they have to go on is the word of the player, and I have to tell you Enigma's word is less than golden. He has been conducting a not-so-subtle campaign, trying to undermine the GMs and moderators by implying that they are on his side, that they convey special favors to him. He tells GM X that GM Y unbanned him, or that GM Z is feeding him information that he shouldn't have otherwise had. He thinks he is clever, but he is as transparent as my three year old daughter trying to influence me against her little brother. So, you'll have to forgive them if they don't take Enigma's word for everything. If I am paying for a game, I certainly don't want to be banned on the basis of what some player accuses me of, with no real proof to back it up. I assure you, players are followed with the vulture when these accusations come up, and if any cheating is evident, they are dealt with accordingly. The details of that are not and will never be relayed to the accuser. Maybe I do harp on Enigma too much, but he is an easy example to point at and say: "Don't act like this." Regardless of whether or not there is an ignore function available, he is violating the terms he agreed to when he signed up and he agrees to them again every time he logs on. His harassment of new and other players detracts from their gaming experience much more than the loss of a kill credit. A business can not allow anarchy on its' playground, it will ultimately cost them more paying customers than the few who pull up their pants and run away every time they don't get what they want. Most of the player base are mature adults who understand this.

    You don't get it. You don't need to write a super complicated program it's easy. Look at the Buzzcam footage. Does the player have an EA on their 6? Yes. Does he go into a steep dive? Yes. Does he lose his internet connection soon after? Yes.

     

    Nobody is asking for a one strike and your out, annomallies do occur, cats do fly onto desktops and push joysticks and pull internet connections (an actual potential possibility). You have

    Once: It happens

    Two: Just one of those things

    Three: Nevermind

    Fourth: Hmmm something not quite right

    Five: Lets look into this

    Six: This isn't right

    Seven: We're keeping an eye on here

    Eight:

     

    Nobody is asking for a system/program that views "every action by every player at every time." because it's not neccessary.

     

    Another argumentertive technique. Make the 'solution' appear to be far more complicated than it really is.

     

    Seriously dude cut the girly drama talk. "He said this to this person that they said that..." FFS lol man up (or grow up to be PC). Find something better to bash him on. IDK say he steals lolly pops from young babies and slaps elderly people

     

    Again making things more extreme than they really are. People will only be reprimanded if they are odviously undertaking exploitative practises (or have a reason to back up their situation). Throughout this the player will be sent messages reminding them such practises are not allowed and that for the enjoyment of everyone that they not undertake such practises. If they feel that they have been wronged they can send an email to the relavent GM and say "Hello, sorry about my internet connection recently. There's been some internet cut outs right when I was in dogfights". In turn they will get understanding. At the moment however we have people doing it who get to the top of the stats, boast how great a flyer they are when their whole 'reputation' on being a good flyer is through cheating.

     

    So your telling me that Enigma abuses new players now? Does he go round harrassing greentags or something? Geez, I have my own bad opinions about him but making false accusations.

     

    Enigma/JG26 are small fish in CRS 'potential problems'. The company have made their own problems far greater than a handful of personalities. Likewise, you claim they drive people away but how many of those players just return with a new name? It's not like it's never happened...

     

    Likewise they might of even kept more players in the game. Their attempts at partially cleaning the air war has a positive on the air game aspect and their off topic shenanigans have likely entertained many; many people admit to staying with the game just for OT. Without guys like them spicing things up the only paying subscribers will be the mods, fanboy drones and those that have invested so much into the game that they will stay until they can't keep the game up.

     

    Edit: Want to ask are you a moderator tom? You know directly about general moderators and directly how certain players are in correspondence with GM X and GM Y and what they say. Also, you like to reiterate ToS often like Silky does like to cover your own back. Forum moderator or annoymous zealot?

  • david06david06 Chantilly, VAMember Posts: 183

    How is it that we have to pry an answer from the company regarding bug fixes, when player statistics will be working again, the status of supposedly critical projects like Rapid Assault and the overall future of the game, yet some guy getting called out for plug-pulling elicits this massive response?


    And you hangar mods need to fix your forum. You have eight stickeyed threads in a place that only has five active threads in the past day.

  • RobbHoodRobbHood Tampa, FLMember Posts: 58

    It's not the same game i bought day one.  They took a ground breaking idea with their giant, seemless map, open world battlefields and tried to cater to the COD console crowds.

    I didn't like depot spawns in an enemy town, but I could live with it.  But then came forced AO's and FRU's, Gaydar, Squads were killed off, DOC became a bigger jerk then when he deined the tri-wing 109 incedent, the forums started to reflect the real world censorship of 1940 Germany and people left in droves.

    I wish the game would go back to a sim or just go away.

  • Silky303Silky303 PortsmouthMember Posts: 134
    David, I'll be sure to look at the number of hangar sticky threads. I'd never considered it a massive issue personally but thank for raising it as an issue

    SWG > Aces High > WWIIOL

  • StugStug Coffee County, TNMember UncommonPosts: 387

    David06, accusations where made, answers where given on why the campaign by certain members of the commununity to ban people they feel are "cheating" wasn't watertght. If they could accept the fact that this is the reality, instead of mounting some form of whispering campaign, they might get somehwere.

    As for the other things, ask them. But dont't try to tarnish one issue with the other when they are opposite otherwise it just looks like more "CRS ate my house and burnt my chicken down" talk.

  • StugStug Coffee County, TNMember UncommonPosts: 387

    Funny. It's all not so much of an issue now, suddenly, as for some reason people don't care.

    You can find these threads still if you want too, gents.

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