Don't talk about cheating in WW2OL guys

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Comments

  • argelargel WashingtonMember Posts: 34

    Ha, tom_servo has pretty much cut right to the core of Enigma and that JG26 thing. When I was more active in the forums over there last summer he really came across badly. I don't think he's a bad guy, he just doesn't ever, EVER accept the limitations of his own human agency. hell, if he could translate that into real world success, maybe it'd be a good thing? But in an online game, it's terrible for 99% of the people reading, ie: everyone not in JG26.

    Agree massively too, that this is an issue that may ideally be fixed by a game mechanic change, but it is also something every game puts up with to some extent. How do you decide what the hard limits are? What do you do if a bug appears that gives a BSOD or closes the client on death and renders the kill void? Of course, they'd fix that pretty quick, but my point is that when you're dealing with this type of thing it's very ambiguous and by putting a rule in place, CRS would be making a rod for their own backs by forcing them to ban players who they need for revenue.

     

    The harsh reality is a) no empirical proof and b) some discussion to be had about whether someone who makes this type of stuff his own pet project would be the type of person (and people) who would use any 'calling out board' or TOS violation rule within acceptable guidelines, or whether he'd constantly use it to attack other players until they felt unable to play or were banned.

     

    Fwiw, even as someone who flew quite regularly at one point and enjoyed the stat aspect of the game, I would rather there were 10 plug-pullers in the air than half of that playing the right way. As such, CRS has a horrible job to do balancing the books without clamping down on an activity that is not as clear cut as the hardcore make out.

  • StugStug Coffee County, TNMember UncommonPosts: 387
    Originally posted by BodkinBarber
    Originally posted by Stug
    Originally posted by BodkinBarber
    You got anything better than calling out a couple of grammar errors? +5 for cliqued put down

    Says he who posts a thread with one line!

    lol if that is some kind of put down then...well lol how long is your post?

    Anyway, care to attempt to rebutt what I said or is the latest strategy to nit pick grammar errors and the amount of lines used. I wanna here about all the daily 100vs100 battles i'm missing out on lol

    You do know the difference between a post and a thread, don't you?

  • BodkinBarberBodkinBarber BirminghamMember Posts: 106
    Originally posted by tom_servo
    Originally posted by BodkinBarber
    Originally posted by Stug
    Originally posted by BodkinBarber
    You got anything better than calling out a couple of grammar errors? +5 for cliqued put down

    Says he who posts a thread with one line!

    lol if that is some kind of put down then...well lol how long is your post?

    Anyway, care to attempt to rebutt what I said or is the latest strategy to nit pick grammar errors and the amount of lines used. I wanna here about all the daily 100vs100 battles i'm missing out on lol

    I have, by the way, already addressed your pouints. You just don't want to hear the answers.

    lol right heres the points that I made in simplified form. I made points/questions about:

    - Mods are ground guys

    - They would do something if it happened to the ground game

    - Air game is neglected resulting in big squads of the past leaving

    - China (communist) version supposely allows the freedom to identify exploiters something the US (democracy) version does not

    - Enigma is slandered as insulting and breaking TOS while double standards prevail on the forums where those who are buddies with GM's can do what they wish

    - Mods stifle the community in communicating to CRS what they can do better

    - Over the years CRS has become increasingly inward looking

    - They don't want to backtrack as it will harm their ego's (would give ammo to the likes of OJ)

    - If CRS admit they've been wrong in their behaviour/attitude then those that they use to enforce it would be wrong

     

    I seriously want you to prove me wrong and give an explanation for every point and not the overused "omgod you did spelling mistakes I WIN!" stuff. Write some substance. The fanboys and mods here don't actually respond to the points people make they just see whether its positive or negative then attempt to divert the discusion.

    9 points. I would expect 9 coonters

     

    P.s. I've left some spelling errors in so you can really denounce me lol

     

     

     

  • Jester6Jester6 Jersey Shore, PAMember Posts: 5
    Originally posted by tom_servo
    Originally posted by JG26_Enigma
    I get individual responses all the time. I guess you don't get love with your reports. I rather have action than reports. I'm done being patient and being told something is being done. I am going to kick and scream until something is ACTUALLY done.

    CRS has lost more customers to cheaters. The good competitive players get driven off in the size of entire squads and a few rotten apples stay behind.

    Also you are obviously a peasant ground player if the time stamp in the screenshot AND the stats page isn't enough for you. This is why I call people like you peasants because you are oncapable of thinking for yourself. Go back to the barracks and let the people that know discuss what you don't know.

    See what I mean?

    Your 'proof' only shows that

    1) A player logged on at XX:XX (can't read it because the picture is too blurry, but that's immaterial)

    2) They had one kill and no deaths on their previous mission.

    Add to this the fact that it is impractical to make 'plug pulling' a TOS violation, if only due to the vagaries of internet connectivity. If they ban someone everytime they lose connection unexplainedly, soon there will be no one left. Short of a camera, snooping on every single player, and monitored by dozens of staff members, taking up precious bandwidth and storage space, how do you suggest that one would even go about proving 'plug pulling?'

    Even IF someone is pulling the plug, the piece of equipment is still taken out of the battle (supply is limited, on a timer of around 6 hours) as is the player. Mission accomplished. But oh no, poor underpriveleged Enigma loses a kill credit, how sad... Yes, paying customers should be banned so that Enigma doesn't have to feel sad.

    You imagine that the game can not do without you, and again, you are sadly mistaken. You have ruined your own credibility and that of your squad and your loss would only be a breath of fresh air, in that it would allow the staff to focus on real issues instead of putting out the fires you start.

    Plus... You are lying. GMs do not reply to reports from you or anyone else. Do you imagine that  a game with text chat functionality does not have a way to log and review the chats, down to the individual player? You have no idea. You are a spoiled child who has gotten everything he wanted from life, and perhaps for the first time ever, you are being denied. So, you throw a tantrum.

    You are going to kick and scream... until you are perma banned. And that, well, that's just fine by me.

     

    Do you realize how embarrassing your own post is? You know nothing of identifying a plug pull sortie, so why even open your mouth on it? It is very easy and very accurate to determine plug-pulling. A stats sheet of the sortie showing kills but no damages is clue to a disconnect, yes. Seeing the player logging right back in just a minute later after he pulled the plug is also a clue. Could it be a CTD or internet loss? Maybe. But what are the odds of that happening only when a pilot gets his ass kicked and crashes? Very very slim. 

     

    "Oh but the planes gone it still counts as a lost piece of equipment!!11" -Yeah because I play this PvP game to shoot down nameless AI drones. 50% of the fun when flying in this game is the sense of rivalry and knowing your opponents. Its all very personal, making it so much more fun.

     

    Lastly, yes GMs do in fact respond to reports, often very unprofessionally if they don't like you.

     

    http://i.imgur.com/D5qxm1G.jpg

     

    http://i.imgur.com/Ec6qslm.jpg

  • Silky303Silky303 PortsmouthMember Posts: 134

    I'm missing the part where you explain why being an air player in a game stops someone moderating people being a-holes on a message board?

     

    should I ask an Air player mod not to touch boobies posted in the Barracks?

    SWG > Aces High > WWIIOL

  • Jester6Jester6 Jersey Shore, PAMember Posts: 5
    Originally posted by argel The harsh reality is a) no empirical proof and b) some discussion to be had about whether someone who makes this type of stuff his own pet project would be the type of person (and people) who would use any 'calling out board' or TOS violation rule within acceptable guidelines, or whether he'd constantly use it to attack other players until they felt unable to play or were banned.

    Wrong. There is plenty of good, solid proof. You're clearly not a pilot.

  • tom_servotom_servo Indianapolis, INMember Posts: 13
    Originally posted by BodkinBarber
     

    lol right heres the points that I made in simplified form. I made points/questions about:

    - Mods are ground guys NOT TRUE, BUT EVEN IF IT WERE, SO WHAT?

    - They would do something if it happened to the ground game IT DOES HAPPEN IN THE GROUND GAME.

    - Air game is neglected resulting in big squads of the past leaving ALL ACCUSATIONS OF CHEATING, REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY OCCUR, ARE INVESTIGATED.

    - China (communist) version supposely allows the freedom to identify exploiters something the US (democracy) version does not YOU DO HAVE THE FREEDOM TO IDENTIFY EXPLOITERS AND CHEATERS, YOU MAY NOT DO SO PUBLICLY.

    - Enigma is slandered as insulting and breaking TOS while double standards prevail on the forums where those who are buddies with GM's can do what they wish ENIGMA HAS MADE HIS OWN TROUBLE, IN THE GAMES AND FORUMS. THE SQUEAKY WHEEL GETS THE GREASE, AND ENIGMA HAS DONE A LOT OF SQUEAKING. ALSO, SPEAKING THE TRUTH ABOUT SOMEONE IS NOT SLANDER, IT IS MAKING A STATEMENT.

    - Mods stifle the community in communicating to CRS what they can do better MODS ENFORCE THE TERMS OF SERVICE, WHICH EVERY SINGLE PLAYER AGREED TO WHEN THEY SIGNED UP. ANY MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY IS FREE TO VOICE HIS CONCERNS PRIVATELY TO ANY MEMBER OF THE STAFF.

    - Over the years CRS has become increasingly inward looking PROBABLY TRUE, BUT WHEN YOU'RE UNDER CONSTANT ATTACK, YOU HAVE TO CIRCLE THE WAGONS.

    - They don't want to backtrack as it will harm their ego's (would give ammo to the likes of OJ) YOU DON'T MOVE FORWARD BY GOING BACK.

    - If CRS admit they've been wrong in their behaviour/attitude then those that they use to enforce it would be wrong CRS DOES NOT BASE THEIR ACTIONS ON WHAT THE MODERATORS DO. IN ANY CASE, A RULE THAT IS IN EFFECT IS ENFORCED WHILE IT'S IN EFFECT, AND IS NOT IF THE RULE IS REMOVED. I FAIL TO SEE HOW THIS IS A VALID POINT. ARE YOU TRYING TO IMPLY THAT CRS WILL NOT CHANGE THEIR TERMS OF SERVICE BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID THAT THE MODERATORS WILL HAVE TO ADMIT THEY WERE WRONG (EVEN THOUGH THEY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN WRONG FOR ENFORCING A VALID RULE)?

     

    I seriously want you to prove me wrong and give an explanation for every point and not the overused "omgod you did spelling mistakes I WIN!" stuff. Write some substance. The fanboys and mods here don't actually respond to the points people make they just see whether its positive or negative then attempt to divert the discusion.

    9 points. I would expect 9 coonters

     

    P.s. I've left some spelling errors in so you can really denounce me lol

     

     

     

    There you go.

    I will refrain from criticizing your spelling and grammar, but you do have a lot to learn about constructing an argument.

  • BodkinBarberBodkinBarber BirminghamMember Posts: 106
    Originally posted by tom_servo
    Originally posted by BodkinBarber
     

    lol right heres the points that I made in simplified form. I made points/questions about:

    - Mods are ground guys NOT TRUE, BUT EVEN IF IT WERE, SO WHAT?

    - They would do something if it happened to the ground game IT DOES HAPPEN IN THE GROUND GAME.

    - Air game is neglected resulting in big squads of the past leaving ALL ACCUSATIONS OF CHEATING, REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY OCCUR, ARE INVESTIGATED.

    - China (communist) version supposely allows the freedom to identify exploiters something the US (democracy) version does not YOU DO HAVE THE FREEDOM TO IDENTIFY EXPLOITERS AND CHEATERS, YOU MAY NOT DO SO PUBLICLY.

    - Enigma is slandered as insulting and breaking TOS while double standards prevail on the forums where those who are buddies with GM's can do what they wish ENIGMA HAS MADE HIS OWN TROUBLE, IN THE GAMES AND FORUMS. THE SQUEAKY WHEEL GETS THE GREASE, AND ENIGMA HAS DONE A LOT OF SQUEAKING. ALSO, SPEAKING THE TRUTH ABOUT SOMEONE IS NOT SLANDER, IT IS MAKING A STATEMENT.

    - Mods stifle the community in communicating to CRS what they can do better MODS ENFORCE THE TERMS OF SERVICE, WHICH EVERY SINGLE PLAYER AGREED TO WHEN THEY SIGNED UP. ANY MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY IS FREE TO VOICE HIS CONCERNS PRIVATELY TO ANY MEMBER OF THE STAFF.

    - Over the years CRS has become increasingly inward looking PROBABLY TRUE, BUT WHEN YOU'RE UNDER CONSTANT ATTACK, YOU HAVE TO CIRCLE THE WAGONS.

    - They don't want to backtrack as it will harm their ego's (would give ammo to the likes of OJ) YOU DON'T MOVE FORWARD BY GOING BACK.

    - If CRS admit they've been wrong in their behaviour/attitude then those that they use to enforce it would be wrong CRS DOES NOT BASE THEIR ACTIONS ON WHAT THE MODERATORS DO. IN ANY CASE, A RULE THAT IS IN EFFECT IS ENFORCED WHILE IT'S IN EFFECT, AND IS NOT IF THE RULE IS REMOVED. I FAIL TO SEE HOW THIS IS A VALID POINT. ARE YOU TRYING TO IMPLY THAT CRS WILL NOT CHANGE THEIR TERMS OF SERVICE BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID THAT THE MODERATORS WILL HAVE TO ADMIT THEY WERE WRONG (EVEN THOUGH THEY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN WRONG FOR ENFORCING A VALID RULE)?

     

    I seriously want you to prove me wrong and give an explanation for every point and not the overused "omgod you did spelling mistakes I WIN!" stuff. Write some substance. The fanboys and mods here don't actually respond to the points people make they just see whether its positive or negative then attempt to divert the discusion.

    9 points. I would expect 9 coonters

     

    P.s. I've left some spelling errors in so you can really denounce me lol

     

     

     

    There you go.

    I will refrain from criticizing your spelling and grammar, but you do have a lot to learn about constructing an argument.

    Well I Probally should of expected the normal trallop. You odviously did a 'stug' read through of my original post so if you want to nit pick me on my simplified version you have quoted then so be it (as simplified questions allow you to be creative in your responses)

     

    - Mods are mostly ground players. Makes sense, most players playing at any one time are ground players thus with proportional representation air mods would be in the minority

     

    - Plug pulling in ground game? First of got to say context. Tank battles are most often surprise affairs, you position your tank in a good spot, wait for another tank to get near you then boom. Unless your long range dueling once you know your underthreat your dead within a few seconds. You don't have time for the system to register you as not in game after you ull your plug as your dead within a few seconds.

    Thats the thing, you don't understand the air game, few do. There is an art in dogfighting, it might look like lots of loops and tricks but its about positioning and keeping the upper hand. For pilots with even a moderate amount of experience you know when your losing a fight quite a while before hand. That gives you more than enough time to dive that plane and pull that plug.

    You claim it's impossible when really it's not. Statistical discrepiancies and randomnes taken into account then if a player is doing it on an extremly regular basis in certain situations then well you just have to apply some logic...

     

    - "ALL ACCUSATIONS OF CHEATING, REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY OCCUR, ARE INVESTIGATED." Was not talking about the GM's official line (which tbh isn't followed through) was on about how the air game has been neglected which have led to squads, you know skilled players, people working as a team etc have left. Point avoided.

     

    - "YOU DO HAVE THE FREEDOM TO IDENTIFY EXPLOITERS AND CHEATERS, YOU MAY NOT DO SO PUBLICLY." lol the capital letters really go well with this. In terms of player freedom in forums then China 1 - USA 0. Another thing the Chinese version does better. Point avoided.

     

    - "ENIGMA HAS MADE HIS OWN TROUBLE, IN THE GAMES AND FORUMS. THE SQUEAKY WHEEL GETS THE GREASE, AND ENIGMA HAS DONE A LOT OF SQUEAKING. ALSO, SPEAKING THE TRUTH ABOUT SOMEONE IS NOT SLANDER, IT IS MAKING A STATEMENT." No response about the double standards (which I was on about) but enigma enigma enigma... Like the liberal use of the word "truth". There's also "truth" in that there is a problem that CRS and mods will punish anyone that brings it up. But hey, thats not your "truth". Point avoided.

     

    - MODS ENFORCE THE TERMS OF SERVICE, WHICH EVERY SINGLE PLAYER AGREED TO WHEN THEY SIGNED UP. ANY MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY IS FREE TO VOICE HIS CONCERNS PRIVATELY TO ANY MEMBER OF THE STAFF. ToS yardy yardy ToS can potentially mean whatever CRS wants it to. All decisions are at their discretion full stop. Our way or the highway, a policy that has no doubt helped the game. Whats the point of sending a private email. They don't listen to many so whu listen to one.

     

    - YOU DON'T MOVE FORWARD BY GOING BACK.

    There's also the saying "if it ain't broke dont fix it". Going forward to what? Daisy chain mickey mouse FRU's? Rapid Assault 32vs32 battles? Shiny on screen graphics to help you throw a grenade (check the beta)? Third person tanking? Thousands couldn't wait so they odviously ended their subscriptions just so they could be 100% sure they would have the money to play when these super things were in?

     

    - CRS DOES NOT BASE THEIR ACTIONS ON WHAT THE MODERATORS DO. IN ANY CASE, A RULE THAT IS IN EFFECT IS ENFORCED WHILE IT'S IN EFFECT, AND IS NOT IF THE RULE IS REMOVED. I FAIL TO SEE HOW THIS IS A VALID POINT. ARE YOU TRYING TO IMPLY THAT CRS WILL NOT CHANGE THEIR TERMS OF SERVICE BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID THAT THE MODERATORS WILL HAVE TO ADMIT THEY WERE WRONG (EVEN THOUGH THEY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN WRONG FOR ENFORCING A VALID RULE)?

    Never said moderators run the show. CRS have their policy, moderators enforce. Ego and special interest can come into play but in the end mods do what CRS wants them to do. If CRS tells moderators to perm ban people for posting about Antwerp there will be mods their to do it. Some will leave, some will be inactive on the sidelines but you'll always those that will follow CRS whatever.

    If CRS say they were wrong in their moderation policy aka it was damaging the community then players are going to ask the mods, fellow players why they were part of something that CRS harmed the community. Thus the mods have an interest to keep the status quo. Likewise like many fanboys here whatever CRS view is their (mods) view, many cannot construct their own views unbiased from CRS. If CRS tommorow said they were moving back to town supply they would cheer, if CRS made towns 2kmx2km shoebox game zones they'd cheer. Drones.

     

    Got to congratulate you on at least responding in some semblance to my actual points. 5/9 i'd say, quite good for a zealot. 

     

    Well if using under hand and flase argumentertive techniques is how a real argument should be formed then I sincerly admit defeat. Does the game win? Nope; but at least you do.

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