This is why Pathfinder is ascendant and 4th Edition is headed for the garbage bin.
Sorry, but 3/3.5 sucks for game play. 4ed isn't that bad and actually reminds me a lot of 1ed with an update. 1ed was really simple and straight forward. Somewhere along the way 3.5 ed became this ugly bloated mess of complexity that added nothing to the game. The fact that you can feck up your entire character to a point of unplayability unless you choose one of the min/max builds is a fatal flaw right there.
Untrue. The only way you could screw up your character is if you had absolutely zero understanding of the rules and / or your class mechanics. A lot of 3 / 3.5's complexity wasn't necessary; they were simply optional rules put there for people who wanted to use them.
I don't know how closely this game emulates the 4.0 ruleset, but it's so incredibly dumbed down from games such as Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Temple of Elemental Evil, and DDO that I honestly feel personally insulted by it.
Oh please, anyone who's played DDO knows you need to have a vetted build or you'll suck and not only that, people won't let you into groups. You could easily ruin a character if you made the wrong feat choices. Saying all that was simply optional is disengenuious at best.
I feel insulted by the people who insist that 3.5ed is the only true D&D ruleset. 4ed is a lot closer to 1ed than 3.5 can ever be. 3.5ed is the worst mess ever to hit D&D.
Baldur's Gate, Icewindale, and PS:T were incredibly simple "dumbed down" games. It wasn't about your epic paragon build. They were about the story first and how you played.
So you don't know anything about the 4ed rules, but are complaining because it's not 3.5ed. That makes sense. EXTERMINATE!
No 4th edition is inferior because of inflexibility. You don't build a character in 4th edition you just level an archetype. The blatant attempt to MMO-ize PnP is the obvious reason for 4th edition.
The old original versions of D&D were fine, but suffered from the same disease as 4th edition, characters locked into a rigid stereotype. 3.5 gave you the ability to have your character's abilities reflect his life experience.
Originally posted by Burntvet To the OP: what did you expect? This is Cryptic: the company that expects players to do their work for them while they stuff the cash shop and put the good items in "unlockable for RL cash" treasure chests. Not a surprise, but you didn't hear much about that from all the previews/first-looks/columns here, did you? That being the policy about a paid advertiser: Speak No Evil.
(CENSORED BECAUSE OF NDA...oopsie)
Wait and see....I've heard very good things from sources.
so what makes this game any different then the yawn fest that was TERA? The foundry? cause so far I have seen nothing interesting at all
For as much hype as the Foundry in this game has been getting, I predict that the outcome will be just like it is in STO: hundreds upon hundreds of player made missions and all but a very few complete crap. It is on the order of 50 to 1 in STO. And also, no way to tell the good from the bad. So in the end, the Foundry is a selling point that Cryptic uses, to set aside complaints about the small world and limited non-cash shop choices. And it is not good for much else.
Everyone kneel, we got a Seer in the room.
lol anyway.. i never played STO but foundry in this game is pretty damn complex.. you can do an incredible amount of things.. only issue is some things are hard to do and to get them to work how you want you have to do a lot of messing around which will turn many users away.. hopefully they release a good tutorial or a nice tester puts one out..
I didn't touch the foundry yet (and probably won't till the game releases), but it's a good feature added to the game. I think that every game out there with a HUGE lore as this one should have a foundry and let players add content as they please. Through time, only the good player-content is what'll stand and will be played ny others anyway. Just look at EQ2 who added the player content with the AoD expansion. They added a rating system to it and the good ones are the ones played often and can be used as an example of how player-made content should look for other players. The bad ones will die out itself though time. Best feature EQ2 added is the linked rating & reward system allowing you to get more features for your self made content. I hope Cryptic/PWI will implement this as well for NW. That'd be awesome and give us a bigger variation in the Foundry as well.
This is why Pathfinder is ascendant and 4th Edition is headed for the garbage bin.
Yep, this garbage that is 4th ed is why I took one look at it and never looked at it a second time. It is not real D&D in my opinion, no matter who supports it or what it says on the books.
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Sorry, but 3/3.5 sucks for game play. 4ed isn't that bad and actually reminds me a lot of 1ed with an update. 1ed was really simple and straight forward. Somewhere along the way 3.5 ed became this ugly bloated mess of complexity that added nothing to the game. The fact that you can feck up your entire character to a point of unplayability unless you choose one of the min/max builds is a fatal flaw right there.
That depends on what you are doing with your characters. Is your D&D game only combat-oriented or are you in a campaign that reflects a fully-fleshed fantasy world ? If you choose non-combat stuff, like for example crafting skills, you could become one of the Forgotten Realm's best reputed crafters that makes that uber and notorious item that adventurers so covet. Sure you might be hampered in combat, but it really depends on what you want to play and how good your GM is. I find that the best GMs are flexible and will let you play your character how you want to play it and not force combat on everyone all of the time. A GM should not force min maxing in an RPG.
Originally posted by Burntvet To the OP: what did you expect? This is Cryptic: the company that expects players to do their work for them while they stuff the cash shop and put the good items in "unlockable for RL cash" treasure chests. Not a surprise, but you didn't hear much about that from all the previews/first-looks/columns here, did you? That being the policy about a paid advertiser: Speak No Evil.
(CENSORED BECAUSE OF NDA...oopsie)
Wait and see....I've heard very good things from sources.
And I was standing and watching over someone's shoulder, so I am very comfortable going with the opposite. As a further note: Cryptic is not the first to try this player created quest/content deal. SOE had it implemented in the later part of SWG's sad life and guess what? It didn't help there either. A mess of crappy, player created stuff, with a rare good one. And that from a company that did not feel like making content for its game, either. Overall, Neverwinter is small, generic, and lacking on many levels. And the Foundry does not change that.
Originally posted by Burntvet To the OP: what did you expect? This is Cryptic: the company that expects players to do their work for them while they stuff the cash shop and put the good items in "unlockable for RL cash" treasure chests. Not a surprise, but you didn't hear much about that from all the previews/first-looks/columns here, did you? That being the policy about a paid advertiser: Speak No Evil.
(CENSORED BECAUSE OF NDA...oopsie)
Wait and see....I've heard very good things from sources.
Theres no NDA for the beta weekends.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Was very underwhelmed as well, got to the level where everyone gets a companion (really...), and logged and uninstalled. At least pre-purchasing Torchlight 2, which came with beta access to NW, was well worth it, since imo TL2 is a blast to play.
I played a lot more of it today already and find myself pretty bored already , its kinda just go fight in this dungeon and that one over and over , fight a couple of strong mobs a boss and a bunch of menions and get more treasure chests . I do not find this either like DND at all other than the settings and some of the lore. I honestly find this game identical to Diablo 3 , from the skill sets and how the game is made to the way the hubs work and you go off into dungeons. Im just not feeling it much myself but I only got to level 9 so it might get better later on but right now im struggling to log in , as the dungeon crawls are just boring with no creativity at all , they kinda just all copy themselves with different textures. I do not feel this is anywhat DnD at all either after playing today other that reference lore.
I can't believe this. They're actually trying to pass this off as D&D? Seriously?
I logged in about an hour ago, decided to create a cleric. First off, I'm stuck with the 'devoted healer' cleric. Uhh, shouldn't that be something I decide myself while leveling? Secondly, I can't choose starting spells... or any spells at all. There are no spells, just 'abilities' like any other MMO. The hell?
I can't choose an alignment. I can't wear platemail, just chain. I don't wield a mace, gauntlet, club, or other simple weapon. I don't get to choose my starting feats. My holy symbol is my weapon, and I cast some stupid fucking 'lance of faith' spell as a default ranged attack. I HAVE NO MELEE ATTACK. Instead of having the option of using a shield, I dodge on a beam of light like Iceman from the X-Men.
Even worse, I CAN'T TURN UNDEAD. Are you fucking kidding me?!? A cleric can't turn undead. That's like saying a paladin can't 'lay on hands', or a fighter can't use a shield. Who the hell made this decision? And no, I don't mean I don't start with the ability... I mean it just simply isn't there. AT ALL.
This game is a complete and utter travesty. It's a fucking joke. It's D&D for the people who rode the short bus to school. Gary Gygax would come back from the dead as a lich and destroy Cryptic & WotC if he knew what they'd done to his creation. It's disgusting, and I feel physically ill after playing for an hour.
Anyone who's ever played D&D should be outraged at what they've done here. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to play Neverwinter Nights to wash the taste of this abomination out of my mouth.
This is a D&D just not the one you expected. I ahve been watching gameplay videos and reading about for a qhite a while now and i already knew how 4th ed would turn out.
Honestly, this is not even a surprise.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
This is a D&D just not the one you expected. I ahve been watching gameplay videos and reading about for a qhite a while now and i already knew how 4th ed would turn out.
Honestly, this is not even a surprise.
all anyone had to do is watch one of the 10+ videos they released before this beta to see this was a dungeon crawler action game more akin to diablo but in 3d.. if you were expecting anything else i dunno what to say..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
This is a D&D just not the one you expected. I ahve been watching gameplay videos and reading about for a qhite a while now and i already knew how 4th ed would turn out.
Honestly, this is not even a surprise.
all anyone had to do is watch one of the 10+ videos they released before this beta to see this was a dungeon crawler action game more akin to diablo but in 3d.. if you were expecting anything else i dunno what to say..
That is the problem. People just go in blind without doing any research? Videos of gameplay have been out for a while and all over the internet.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Comments
No 4th edition is inferior because of inflexibility. You don't build a character in 4th edition you just level an archetype. The blatant attempt to MMO-ize PnP is the obvious reason for 4th edition.
The old original versions of D&D were fine, but suffered from the same disease as 4th edition, characters locked into a rigid stereotype. 3.5 gave you the ability to have your character's abilities reflect his life experience.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
(CENSORED BECAUSE OF NDA...oopsie)
Wait and see....I've heard very good things from sources.
I didn't touch the foundry yet (and probably won't till the game releases), but it's a good feature added to the game. I think that every game out there with a HUGE lore as this one should have a foundry and let players add content as they please. Through time, only the good player-content is what'll stand and will be played ny others anyway. Just look at EQ2 who added the player content with the AoD expansion. They added a rating system to it and the good ones are the ones played often and can be used as an example of how player-made content should look for other players. The bad ones will die out itself though time. Best feature EQ2 added is the linked rating & reward system allowing you to get more features for your self made content. I hope Cryptic/PWI will implement this as well for NW. That'd be awesome and give us a bigger variation in the Foundry as well.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
(CENSORED BECAUSE OF NDA...oopsie)
Wait and see....I've heard very good things from sources.
And I was standing and watching over someone's shoulder, so I am very comfortable going with the opposite. As a further note: Cryptic is not the first to try this player created quest/content deal. SOE had it implemented in the later part of SWG's sad life and guess what? It didn't help there either. A mess of crappy, player created stuff, with a rare good one. And that from a company that did not feel like making content for its game, either. Overall, Neverwinter is small, generic, and lacking on many levels. And the Foundry does not change that.Theres no NDA for the beta weekends.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
This is a D&D just not the one you expected. I ahve been watching gameplay videos and reading about for a qhite a while now and i already knew how 4th ed would turn out.
Honestly, this is not even a surprise.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
all anyone had to do is watch one of the 10+ videos they released before this beta to see this was a dungeon crawler action game more akin to diablo but in 3d.. if you were expecting anything else i dunno what to say..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
That is the problem. People just go in blind without doing any research? Videos of gameplay have been out for a while and all over the internet.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney