See Quirhid the premise that Torgrim and others are coming from is that modern MMO's are failures because they either don't keep the initial 1/2/3 million players from launch, that no MMO since WoW has grown in population and that they have gone F2P and this is the strawman under the whole add fluff and games will succeed argument. Inorder for this to be true modern MMO's have to be failing and there are no longer longterm players and that is patently false. The market is evolving and we are in transitional period where payment plans are being revised. Companies that started building games 5/6 years ago were building them in a time where there was only one payment plan now that is not the case so they've had to adapt and adapt quickly as there are more options for the consumer out there. Its a highly competitive market now and that force companies to think about how they charge their customers, SOE have finally realised their F2P system is not great and have relaxed it and this will happen with all the big publishers. All in all it comes down to more choice for the consumer meaning that the playerbase gets spread much thinner that it did in the beginning.
Eve has grown in population steadily from launch.
I agree with this thread, that the MMO i would like to play needs more fluff (or become more rounded). I still go back to WOW and EQ2 because there are so many things i can do in those games.
EvE was released in 2003, 18 months before WoW and started off incredibly small, its a common mistake. When players bring up this discussions they are talking mainly about the big AAA titles not niche indie games.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Yet the patch that CCP went out of their way to include fluff made them lose subs! Its of the few times they have noticably dipped. do you really want to attempt to play the game of correlation is causation?
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
See Quirhid the premise that Torgrim and others are coming from is that modern MMO's are failures because they either don't keep the initial 1/2/3 million players from launch, that no MMO since WoW has grown in population and that they have gone F2P and this is the strawman under the whole add fluff and games will succeed argument. Inorder for this to be true modern MMO's have to be failing and there are no longer longterm players and that is patently false. The market is evolving and we are in transitional period where payment plans are being revised. Companies that started building games 5/6 years ago were building them in a time where there was only one payment plan now that is not the case so they've had to adapt and adapt quickly as there are more options for the consumer out there. Its a highly competitive market now and that force companies to think about how they charge their customers, SOE have finally realised their F2P system is not great and have relaxed it and this will happen with all the big publishers. All in all it comes down to more choice for the consumer meaning that the playerbase gets spread much thinner that it did in the beginning.
Eve has grown in population steadily from launch.
I agree with this thread, that the MMO i would like to play needs more fluff (or become more rounded). I still go back to WOW and EQ2 because there are so many things i can do in those games.
EvE was released in 2003, 18 months before WoW and started off incredibly small, its a common mistake. When players bring up this discussions they are talking mainly about the big AAA titles not niche indie games.
Yet the patch that CCP went out of their way to include fluff made them lose subs! Its of the few times they have noticably dipped. do you really want to attempt to play the game of correlation is causation?
I never said the reason for its growth. I simply said it has grown. That is really interesting though - what did Eve add that was not liked?
Yet the patch that CCP went out of their way to include fluff made them lose subs! Its of the few times they have noticably dipped. do you really want to attempt to play the game of correlation is causation?
I never said the reason for its growth. I simply said it has grown. That is really interesting though - what did Eve add that was not liked?
the fluff they added were/is sold in a cash shop, that is what he "forget" to mention - 50$ for a fluff item ; )
Yet the patch that CCP went out of their way to include fluff made them lose subs! Its of the few times they have noticably dipped. do you really want to attempt to play the game of correlation is causation?
I never said the reason for its growth. I simply said it has grown. That is really interesting though - what did Eve add that was not liked?
the fluff they added were/is sold in a cash shop, that is what he "forget" to mention - 50$ for a fluff item ; )
You are really going to go to the blown out of proportion monocle as your refutation? Really? And no, that is not what I was referencing. Hiding behind the maligned cash shop to attempt to obscure the ever asked for but never going to happen walking around in space stations.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
Yet the patch that CCP went out of their way to include fluff made them lose subs! Its of the few times they have noticably dipped. do you really want to attempt to play the game of correlation is causation?
I never said the reason for its growth. I simply said it has grown. That is really interesting though - what did Eve add that was not liked?
the fluff they added were/is sold in a cash shop, that is what he "forget" to mention - 50$ for a fluff item ; )
You are really going to go to the blown out of proportion monocle as your refutation? Really? And no, that is not what I was referencing. Hiding behind the maligned cash shop to attempt to obscure the ever asked for but never going to happen walking around in space stations.
well that is the only time some fluff have ever been added to EVE as far as I know, so tell me what fluff have been added that made people so mad, that they left, what are you talking about then....because must be after I stopped play EVE then, and not been covered here on this site
Yet the patch that CCP went out of their way to include fluff made them lose subs! Its of the few times they have noticably dipped. do you really want to attempt to play the game of correlation is causation?
I never said the reason for its growth. I simply said it has grown. That is really interesting though - what did Eve add that was not liked?
the fluff they added were/is sold in a cash shop, that is what he "forget" to mention - 50$ for a fluff item ; )
You are really going to go to the blown out of proportion monocle as your refutation? Really? And no, that is not what I was referencing. Hiding behind the maligned cash shop to attempt to obscure the ever asked for but never going to happen walking around in space stations.
well that is the only time some fluff have ever been added to EVE as far as I know, so tell me what fluff have been added that made people so mad, that they left, what are you talking about then....because must be after I stopped play EVE then, and not been covered here on this site
Highlighted cause apparently your reading comprehension is as poor as your memory.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
Yet the patch that CCP went out of their way to include fluff made them lose subs! Its of the few times they have noticably dipped. do you really want to attempt to play the game of correlation is causation?
I never said the reason for its growth. I simply said it has grown. That is really interesting though - what did Eve add that was not liked?
Google EvE Captain's Quarters and you know I meant from release didn't you I'm sure you did so no splitting hairs.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Combat gets boring. It cannot help but get boring, and spending a lot of time to make it more 'exciting' isn't going to make a difference in the end. Once players develop a pattern of what the combat is like, the first steps towards boredom take root.
Where do you get that? Combat is the core of gaming. How many hours do people play COD .. nothing but shooting.
How many hours do people play D3? 99% is mowing down monsters.
Take any popular game .. how many is nothing but non-stop combat (plus some stories)? Halo, GoW, .....
Take the successful online games in the last 2 years .. LOL, WOT ... what is the gameplay in them? You guess it .. combat.
Don't think that if it is boring to you, it is boring to everyone.
I would like to know the % of game time people play per session. 10 mins? 20 min? 30 mins? an hour? and how often do these people log in per day? 2 times? 4 times? Or perhaps log in in a week. 10 times? 15 times?
When combat is the only thing that drives a game, how long can one play before they feel like logging out?
Would be something to look into to. the avarage play time per session of a combat orented player to a non combat orented player.
I don't think it does. The subscription retention numbers of nearly every post-WoW MMO kind of shows it. You get a massive spike at launch, and when people figure out the combat, they max out and leave. Every. Time.
An expansion of more combat content to consume might get them back for a month or two. Once that's done, they'll leave again. And they'll leave even faster than they left initially.
Combat gets boring. It cannot help but get boring, and spending a lot of time to make it more 'exciting' isn't going to make a difference in the end. Once players develop a pattern of what the combat is like, the first steps towards boredom take root.
And once the most visceral thing the devs have in their box of attention getting techniques--combat--becomes routine, the developers really don't have anywhere to go to get the thrill back. And it will become routine, no matter how hard they try to make it 'innovative' or 'exciting.'
Everything gets boring eventually if there is no change. Everything. To think that non-combat activities are somehow immune to this is ludicrous.
People played Doom for years. People played Quake for years. -Counter Strike, Battlefield, Call of Duty, Dune, Command & Conquer, Warcraft, Starcraft, DotA, Mortal Kombat, Tekken, Street Fighter... They are entirely about combat.
How on earth can you make a point that longevity comes from fluff when you look at those games?
Yet the patch that CCP went out of their way to include fluff made them lose subs! Its of the few times they have noticably dipped. do you really want to attempt to play the game of correlation is causation?
I never said the reason for its growth. I simply said it has grown. That is really interesting though - what did Eve add that was not liked?
Google EvE Captain's Quarters and you know I meant from release didn't you I'm sure you did so no splitting hairs.
Of course Eve has grown since launch. However its also apparent that the only dip was do to that expansion. Also, keep in mind that a fair amount of Eve's growth is due to its unique real time based skill system, since something like 30% of its playerbase has more than 1 account.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
Combat gets boring. It cannot help but get boring, and spending a lot of time to make it more 'exciting' isn't going to make a difference in the end. Once players develop a pattern of what the combat is like, the first steps towards boredom take root.
Where do you get that? Combat is the core of gaming. How many hours do people play COD .. nothing but shooting.
How many hours do people play D3? 99% is mowing down monsters.
Take any popular game .. how many is nothing but non-stop combat (plus some stories)? Halo, GoW, .....
Take the successful online games in the last 2 years .. LOL, WOT ... what is the gameplay in them? You guess it .. combat.
Don't think that if it is boring to you, it is boring to everyone.
I would like to know the % of game time people play per session. 10 mins? 20 min? 30 mins? an hour? and how often do these people log in per day? 2 times? 4 times? Or perhaps log in in a week. 10 times? 15 times?
When combat is the only thing that drives a game, how long can one play before they feel like logging out?
Would be something to look into to. the avarage play time per session of a combat orented player to a non combat orented player.
That study has already happened. You will just discount it because its from 2007 I believe (Eq2 was its focus group) and its finding were pretty clear that those who focus on "immersion" play less, and do not play as long as those who focus on goal orientated gameplay. Which one can only assume is part of the reason why many mmo's and game companies in general have moved in that direction. They do tend to listen to science when it tells them it makes them more money.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
Yet the patch that CCP went out of their way to include fluff made them lose subs! Its of the few times they have noticably dipped. do you really want to attempt to play the game of correlation is causation?
I never said the reason for its growth. I simply said it has grown. That is really interesting though - what did Eve add that was not liked?
Google EvE Captain's Quarters and you know I meant from release didn't you I'm sure you did so no splitting hairs.
Of course Eve has grown since launch. However its also apparent that the only dip was do to that expansion. Also, keep in mind that a fair amount of Eve's growth is due to its unique real time based skill system, since something like 30% of its playerbase has more than 1 account.
What I meant in my original post was that no new AAA MMO has grown since WoW release next time I'll make it clearer. Also, yes EvE does have a large proportion of multibox players and its unique in the MMO space which gives it an edge but its still niche, so for the sake of argument EvE is an exception to the rule but doesn't make any of my points invalid.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Yet the patch that CCP went out of their way to include fluff made them lose subs! Its of the few times they have noticably dipped. do you really want to attempt to play the game of correlation is causation?
I never said the reason for its growth. I simply said it has grown. That is really interesting though - what did Eve add that was not liked?
Google EvE Captain's Quarters and you know I meant from release didn't you I'm sure you did so no splitting hairs.
Perhaps there is somthing you are not understanding. I simply said Eve has grown from launch. Yes i heard about the Captain's quarters thank you for letting me know, but subs are now up to 500,000 (http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/28/eve-online-hits-500-000-subscribers-heads-into-second-decade/) Its a simple fact that i mentioned without a reason for it. So there are no split hairs - Eve has grown from launch period.
Combat gets boring. It cannot help but get boring, and spending a lot of time to make it more 'exciting' isn't going to make a difference in the end. Once players develop a pattern of what the combat is like, the first steps towards boredom take root.
Where do you get that? Combat is the core of gaming. How many hours do people play COD .. nothing but shooting.
How many hours do people play D3? 99% is mowing down monsters.
Take any popular game .. how many is nothing but non-stop combat (plus some stories)? Halo, GoW, .....
Take the successful online games in the last 2 years .. LOL, WOT ... what is the gameplay in them? You guess it .. combat.
Don't think that if it is boring to you, it is boring to everyone.
I would like to know the % of game time people play per session. 10 mins? 20 min? 30 mins? an hour? and how often do these people log in per day? 2 times? 4 times? Or perhaps log in in a week. 10 times? 15 times?
When combat is the only thing that drives a game, how long can one play before they feel like logging out?
Would be something to look into to. the avarage play time per session of a combat orented player to a non combat orented player.
That study has already happened. You will just discount it because its from 2007 I believe (Eq2 was its focus group) and its finding were pretty clear that those who focus on "immersion" play less, and do not play as long as those who focus on goal orientated gameplay. Which one can only assume is part of the reason why many mmo's and game companies in general have moved in that direction. They do tend to listen to science when it tells them it makes them more money.
Good point, MMO companies follow metrics and research and thats why MMO's have gone down the path they have, they don't make up data from personal likes and biased perception of what the market needs, posters on MMORPG.com do that though.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Yet the patch that CCP went out of their way to include fluff made them lose subs! Its of the few times they have noticably dipped. do you really want to attempt to play the game of correlation is causation?
I never said the reason for its growth. I simply said it has grown. That is really interesting though - what did Eve add that was not liked?
Google EvE Captain's Quarters and you know I meant from release didn't you I'm sure you did so no splitting hairs.
Of course Eve has grown since launch. However its also apparent that the only dip was do to that expansion. Also, keep in mind that a fair amount of Eve's growth is due to its unique real time based skill system, since something like 30% of its playerbase has more than 1 account.
What I meant in my original post was that no new AAA MMO has grown since WoW release next time I'll make it clearer. Also, yes EvE does have a large proportion of multibox players and its unique in the MMO space which gives it an edge but its still niche, so for the sake of argument EvE is an exception to the rule but doesn't make any of my points invalid.
Combat gets boring. It cannot help but get boring, and spending a lot of time to make it more 'exciting' isn't going to make a difference in the end. Once players develop a pattern of what the combat is like, the first steps towards boredom take root.
Where do you get that? Combat is the core of gaming. How many hours do people play COD .. nothing but shooting.
How many hours do people play D3? 99% is mowing down monsters.
Take any popular game .. how many is nothing but non-stop combat (plus some stories)? Halo, GoW, .....
Take the successful online games in the last 2 years .. LOL, WOT ... what is the gameplay in them? You guess it .. combat.
Don't think that if it is boring to you, it is boring to everyone.
I would like to know the % of game time people play per session. 10 mins? 20 min? 30 mins? an hour? and how often do these people log in per day? 2 times? 4 times? Or perhaps log in in a week. 10 times? 15 times?
When combat is the only thing that drives a game, how long can one play before they feel like logging out?
Would be something to look into to. the avarage play time per session of a combat orented player to a non combat orented player.
That study has already happened. You will just discount it because its from 2007 I believe (Eq2 was its focus group) and its finding were pretty clear that those who focus on "immersion" play less, and do not play as long as those who focus on goal orientated gameplay. Which one can only assume is part of the reason why many mmo's and game companies in general have moved in that direction. They do tend to listen to science when it tells them it makes them more money.
That is really interesting Jim, do you know where I may find this study?
Yet the patch that CCP went out of their way to include fluff made them lose subs! Its of the few times they have noticably dipped. do you really want to attempt to play the game of correlation is causation?
I never said the reason for its growth. I simply said it has grown. That is really interesting though - what did Eve add that was not liked?
Google EvE Captain's Quarters and you know I meant from release didn't you I'm sure you did so no splitting hairs.
Perhaps there is somthing you are not understanding. I simply said Eve has grown from launch. Yes i heard about the Captain's quarters thank you for letting me know, but subs are now up to 500,000 (http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/28/eve-online-hits-500-000-subscribers-heads-into-second-decade/) Its a simple fact that i mentioned without a reason for it. So there are no split hairs - Eve has grown from launch period.
Exactly my point, when "fluff" was added it stopped growing and actively lost subs. Also, how many of those "subscribers" are actually plex accounts? And before you go defending plex CCP has said on several occasions that they buy up and sell off plex itself to keep the economy inline, so no not all of it is paid for, even if the majority of it is.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
Yet the patch that CCP went out of their way to include fluff made them lose subs! Its of the few times they have noticably dipped. do you really want to attempt to play the game of correlation is causation?
I never said the reason for its growth. I simply said it has grown. That is really interesting though - what did Eve add that was not liked?
Google EvE Captain's Quarters and you know I meant from release didn't you I'm sure you did so no splitting hairs.
Perhaps there is somthing you are not understanding. I simply said Eve has grown from launch. Yes i heard about the Captain's quarters thank you for letting me know, but subs are now up to 500,000 (http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/28/eve-online-hits-500-000-subscribers-heads-into-second-decade/) Its a simple fact that i mentioned without a reason for it. So there are no split hairs - Eve has grown from launch period.
I answered your question also you are focusing on one slight inaccuracy and misunderstanding in my post but as I said my points are still valid one exception does not change the rule. So no AAA MMO has grown since WoW was released is that clearer?
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
That is really interesting Jim, do you know where I may find this study?
The only link I have is behind a sign in. You can do a search on Nicholas Yee though, he has a ton of interesting things, and is really the pioneer into this sort of research, with his Daedlus Project being the least of it really.
Originally posted by Calerxes
I answered your question also you are focusing on one slight inaccuracy and misunderstanding in my post but as I said my points are still valid one exception does not change the rule. So no AAA MMO has grown since WoW was released is that clearer?
Well yeah, but what does that have to do with the topic at hand? WoW for the most part is fluff light, and EvE LOST subs when they made an effort to introduce fluff. Both of those facts fly in the face of what op and his supporters claim. Though because of Eve's nebulous success its spawning its own clones, most of which are going to fail for a variety of reasons. Even Wod I feel is likely to be a failure due to its "focus" on clothing for example.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
That is really interesting Jim, do you know where I may find this study?
The only link I have is behind a sign in. You can do a search on Nicholas Yee though, he has a ton of interesting things, and is really the pioneer into this sort of research, with his Daedlus Project being the least of it really.
Yet the patch that CCP went out of their way to include fluff made them lose subs! Its of the few times they have noticably dipped. do you really want to attempt to play the game of correlation is causation?
I never said the reason for its growth. I simply said it has grown. That is really interesting though - what did Eve add that was not liked?
Google EvE Captain's Quarters and you know I meant from release didn't you I'm sure you did so no splitting hairs.
Perhaps there is somthing you are not understanding. I simply said Eve has grown from launch. Yes i heard about the Captain's quarters thank you for letting me know, but subs are now up to 500,000 (http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/28/eve-online-hits-500-000-subscribers-heads-into-second-decade/) Its a simple fact that i mentioned without a reason for it. So there are no split hairs - Eve has grown from launch period.
I answered your question also you are focusing on one slight inaccuracy and misunderstanding in my post but as I said my points are still valid one exception does not change the rule. So no AAA MMO has grown since WoW was released is that clearer?
well of course it does the original statement was that "no MMO" has grown. I simply stated Eve has. No one said it had to be AAA (although SWTOR wishes it had 500,000 subs lol).
That is really interesting Jim, do you know where I may find this study?
The only link I have is behind a sign in. You can do a search on Nicholas Yee though, he has a ton of interesting things, and is really the pioneer into this sort of research, with his Daedlus Project being the least of it really.
Thats only one of them, he has co published several others. The one where he revises the Bartle Scale is especially interesting.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
That is really interesting Jim, do you know where I may find this study?
The only link I have is behind a sign in. You can do a search on Nicholas Yee though, he has a ton of interesting things, and is really the pioneer into this sort of research, with his Daedlus Project being the least of it really.
Comments
EvE was released in 2003, 18 months before WoW and started off incredibly small, its a common mistake. When players bring up this discussions they are talking mainly about the big AAA titles not niche indie games.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Yet the patch that CCP went out of their way to include fluff made them lose subs! Its of the few times they have noticably dipped. do you really want to attempt to play the game of correlation is causation?
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
no mistake here: you said no mmo has grown - and Eve is an MMO and it has grown. http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png
I never said the reason for its growth. I simply said it has grown. That is really interesting though - what did Eve add that was not liked?
the fluff they added were/is sold in a cash shop, that is what he "forget" to mention - 50$ for a fluff item ; )
You are really going to go to the blown out of proportion monocle as your refutation? Really? And no, that is not what I was referencing. Hiding behind the maligned cash shop to attempt to obscure the ever asked for but never going to happen walking around in space stations.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
well that is the only time some fluff have ever been added to EVE as far as I know, so tell me what fluff have been added that made people so mad, that they left, what are you talking about then....because must be after I stopped play EVE then, and not been covered here on this site
Highlighted cause apparently your reading comprehension is as poor as your memory.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
Google EvE Captain's Quarters and you know I meant from release didn't you I'm sure you did so no splitting hairs.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
I would like to know the % of game time people play per session. 10 mins? 20 min? 30 mins? an hour? and how often do these people log in per day? 2 times? 4 times? Or perhaps log in in a week. 10 times? 15 times?
When combat is the only thing that drives a game, how long can one play before they feel like logging out?
Would be something to look into to. the avarage play time per session of a combat orented player to a non combat orented player.
Games.... not MMOs.
Of course Eve has grown since launch. However its also apparent that the only dip was do to that expansion. Also, keep in mind that a fair amount of Eve's growth is due to its unique real time based skill system, since something like 30% of its playerbase has more than 1 account.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
That study has already happened. You will just discount it because its from 2007 I believe (Eq2 was its focus group) and its finding were pretty clear that those who focus on "immersion" play less, and do not play as long as those who focus on goal orientated gameplay. Which one can only assume is part of the reason why many mmo's and game companies in general have moved in that direction. They do tend to listen to science when it tells them it makes them more money.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
What I meant in my original post was that no new AAA MMO has grown since WoW release next time I'll make it clearer. Also, yes EvE does have a large proportion of multibox players and its unique in the MMO space which gives it an edge but its still niche, so for the sake of argument EvE is an exception to the rule but doesn't make any of my points invalid.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Perhaps there is somthing you are not understanding. I simply said Eve has grown from launch. Yes i heard about the Captain's quarters thank you for letting me know, but subs are now up to 500,000 (http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/28/eve-online-hits-500-000-subscribers-heads-into-second-decade/) Its a simple fact that i mentioned without a reason for it. So there are no split hairs - Eve has grown from launch period.
Good point, MMO companies follow metrics and research and thats why MMO's have gone down the path they have, they don't make up data from personal likes and biased perception of what the market needs, posters on MMORPG.com do that though.
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I agree with you there
That is really interesting Jim, do you know where I may find this study?
Exactly my point, when "fluff" was added it stopped growing and actively lost subs. Also, how many of those "subscribers" are actually plex accounts? And before you go defending plex CCP has said on several occasions that they buy up and sell off plex itself to keep the economy inline, so no not all of it is paid for, even if the majority of it is.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
I answered your question also you are focusing on one slight inaccuracy and misunderstanding in my post but as I said my points are still valid one exception does not change the rule. So no AAA MMO has grown since WoW was released is that clearer?
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The only link I have is behind a sign in. You can do a search on Nicholas Yee though, he has a ton of interesting things, and is really the pioneer into this sort of research, with his Daedlus Project being the least of it really.
Well yeah, but what does that have to do with the topic at hand? WoW for the most part is fluff light, and EvE LOST subs when they made an effort to introduce fluff. Both of those facts fly in the face of what op and his supporters claim. Though because of Eve's nebulous success its spawning its own clones, most of which are going to fail for a variety of reasons. Even Wod I feel is likely to be a failure due to its "focus" on clothing for example.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
I found it! Thank you so much it seems like a really interesting read (I have a science background) Here is the link for anyone else interested: http://www.nickyee.com/pubs/Yee%20-%20MMORPG%20Demographics%202006.pdf
well of course it does
the original statement was that "no MMO" has grown. I simply stated Eve has. No one said it had to be AAA (although SWTOR wishes it had 500,000 subs lol).
Thats only one of them, he has co published several others. The one where he revises the Bartle Scale is especially interesting.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
Readings like such are relevent to this thread too. It is interesting to read these pieces to better understand why we KEEP playing MMORPGs!