Play Tetris if you have no time for gaming, it can be played in short bursts and can be entertaining for the rest of your life.
My point is that MMORPG's should be time consuming thats their appeal to me and to many others so if you have no time playing then simply don't play.
LOL .. trying to tell people what to do over the internet?
How about this? I don't play tetris. I will play MMO. And i will play it according to my schedule and vote with my feet/money.
What are you going to do? Keep repeating and hope that i comply? Threaten devs to only develop games your way?
I hate people joining for a dungeon and after 20 minutes saying that they have to log off... yeah are you one of those?
Yeh. I log off whenever i want. If my wife calls for dinner, i am gone. Games are not that important.
Don't play with me. There are millions of gamers out there. You can always find someone you like.
You will end up on many peoples ignore list and only be able to form a party with people that no one wants to play with but hey you can have dinner with your wife all day long.
You will end up on many peoples ignore list and only be able to form a party with people that no one wants to play with but hey you can have dinner with your wife all day long.
Really?
I have a long friend list that i seldom have time to play with. Don't be bitter. Not everyone play video games for life.
And yeah, i do spend lots of time with my wife. Like wine-tasting trip to NAPA. Not dinner all day .. but fun all day.
People are actually quite understanding. Once you mentioined "wife aggro", they won't count it against you. I guess you are not one of those nice people?
You will end up on many peoples ignore list and only be able to form a party with people that no one wants to play with but hey you can have dinner with your wife all day long.
Really?
I have a long friend list that i seldom have time to play with. Don't be bitter. Not everyone play video games for life.
And yeah, i do spend lots of time with my wife. Like wine-tasting trip to NAPA. Not dinner all day .. but fun all day.
People are actually quite understanding. Once you mentioined "wife aggro", they won't count it against you. I guess you are not one of those nice people?
I don't want to play with people who are not committed and ''wife aggro'' seriously?
MMO devs certainly should feel pressured by some of these non-MMOs where the playstyle can be quite similar to MMOs. It is a time to adapt and change.
Why?
I don't see any reason why developers should feel compelled to modify their games to the detriment of one playstyle and satisfied audience to cater to the desires of another playstyle. Particularly when one of the core aspects of an MMORPG is the community and relationships that eveolve out of them and encouraging players to whimsically jump in and out of that community will do little to promote such a community.
I don't have anything against not wasting time but when you propose changing the nature of a game because YOU don't have the time then perhaps you need to reorganize YOUR time, otherwise you will eventually find that the game you lobbied to change just isn't the game you wanted to play anymore.
Now that is just silly. I have gone through WOW from no LFD to LFD/LFR. Eliminating the need to yell endlessly in chat to get a group.
And what did i find? that is exactly the game i want to play. Much better than before.
I don't reorganize my time for entertainment. Entertainment needs to fit my schedule, not the other way around.
And oh, i don't actually care if existing games change or not. There are enough games fit that .. and i will vote with my feet/wallet. It is not like there is a lack of games that cater to people who like convenience.
Please stay in WoW and don't come to the MMORPG's where some form of social interaction is required because that is clearly something that is not for you.
Please stay in WoW and don't come to the MMORPG's where some form of social interaction is required because that is clearly something that is not for you.
What MMORPG that requires social interaction?
I play PS2, STO, DDO, DCUO .. none requires social interaction.
And isn't it obvious? You think you have to tell me? I obviously won't play a game where social interaction is mandatory. If i want that, i will go to a chat room.
No he did not imply you could get an uber sword in 5 minutes. In fact he said achievement is not just level or an uber sword. The exact opposite of what you claim. He stated achievement is more than this.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Play Tetris if you have no time for gaming, it can be played in short bursts and can be entertaining for the rest of your life.
My point is that MMORPG's should be time consuming thats their appeal to me and to many others so if you have no time playing then simply don't play.
Clearly it's not for many others because if the majority of the MMO-playing community wanted games that were time-consuming, MMOs would be made that way!
This is just one more case of someone who can't separate wishful thinking from reality.
Play Tetris if you have no time for gaming, it can be played in short bursts and can be entertaining for the rest of your life.
My point is that MMORPG's should be time consuming thats their appeal to me and to many others so if you have no time playing then simply don't play.
Clearly it's not for many others because if the majority of the MMO-playing community wanted games that were time-consuming, MMOs would be made that way!
This is just one more case of someone who can't separate wishful thinking from reality.
Those people really don't belong but devs makes money out of them so what to do?
The problem is that you/we, the user, wanted to play in 10-30 minute bites and get the same rewards as the 1-4+ hour dedicated players.
Here's the truth - you/we don't deserve it!
Want the best? Dedicate yourself to the time investment.
That sounds like work. We are talking about games, not trying to get promotion.
I will play games that does not lock content based on time available.
And oh btw, even in WOW, you can do LFR, do a boss, then quit.
So no .. i am not going to dedicate to games, and will the ones that don't require me to do that. We all vote with our feet & wallet. Devs respond. That is how the market works.
The most popular / financially successful game is/was already this way.
And they even work out (at least used to last time I played which was a while ago) when you factor in the availability of longer play sessions.
Using WoW as an example -
Quick: hop in and do a quest or two - minimum reward for minimum time investment (5-20 minutes)
Quick-Medium: dungeon or battleground using LFG - pretty quick to average time investment (maybe 20-60 minutes) and average/normalized reward
Medium - Long: Raid - 60 minutes - 4+ hours best reward in the game, longest time commitment.
The problem is that you/we, the user, wanted to play in 10-30 minute bites and get the same rewards as the 1-4+ hour dedicated players.
Here's the truth - you/we don't deserve it!
Want the best? Dedicate yourself to the time investment.
Don't have the time?
Slowly chip away / work towards 2nd best one bit as a time.
Shouldn't have ever changed.
They already once had single encounter raids (easily 10-30 minutes tops) and massive 4+ hour crawls.
Why? If someone does X, they should get the rewards for X. That means that a person playing for 10 minutes and can do X, gets whatever rewards are coming to them. Someone who can play for 100 minutes and does 10 of X, should get 10x the rewards for doing 10x the content. Why should anyone deserve more or less based on how long they play? It should be based on what they actually accomplish.
I can't think of anything further removed from MY idea of MMORPG's than to turn them into "10-minute action-packed playsessions". I shudder at the thought.
And just to put the cherry on top, some posters in this thread want to have "meaningful character advancement" from their 15min play sessions. Presumably they still want to reach level-cap after 4-6 weeks, otherwise they will "lose interest". If that would be possible, then someone spending 3 hours a day in the game would probably hit level-cap in 2 or 3 days.
I've no doubt that there's a huge market for "bite-sized gaming", but it simply doesn't make sense in a persistent online world with character inter-dependence, which was the original concept of MMORPG's. After wandering far from it's roots, a portion of the MMO-sphere is once again returning to explore those founding principles. The rest of MMO gaming will probably try to serve itself in bite-size chunks in another attempt to get more players (and money) than WoW.
I've no doubt that there's a huge market for "bite-sized gaming", but it simply doesn't make sense in a persistent online world with character inter-dependence, which was the original concept of MMORPG's.
Simple .. concept changes. There is no need for an industry to hold onto old, original ideas. Most industry evolves.
Secondly, persistent online world is not the main focus of gameplay of many MMOs anymore. Look at how much time players spend in instances.
Surely MMO is a big industry with some games still big in "worlds" (like PS2) but you can't say that is the same for every MMO anymore.
I've no doubt that there's a huge market for "bite-sized gaming", but it simply doesn't make sense in a persistent online world with character inter-dependence, which was the original concept of MMORPG's.
Simple .. concept changes. There is no need for an industry to hold onto old, original ideas. Most industry evolves.
Secondly, persistent online world is not the main focus of gameplay of many MMOs anymore. Look at how much time players spend in instances.
Surely MMO is a big industry with some games still big in "worlds" (like PS2) but you can't say that is the same for every MMO anymore.
There's no doubt at all that the "MMO industry" has already "evolved" significantly in the last 15 years. The whole gaming industry has, to a certain extent. And will continue to do so.
We are already at a point where the "MMO" label is becoming somewhat superflous. When a traditionally SPG game like SimCity is reborn as an online-only multiplayer game, then it appears that a few years from now we'll not be talking about "MMO's" anymore, just about "games". And we'll be specifically commenting on the fact that a certain game is "offline-only", because they will be the exception...
However, evolution does not mean that everything in a system evolves at the same speed or even in the same direction. There's an audience for "old-skool virtual world" games, just as there's an audience for FPS's, themeparks and MOBA's.
Don't try to force the process to produce one type of game or gameplay style. It will find it's own way, regardless of how hard you try to push your own agenda
However, evolution does not mean that everything in a system evolves at the same speed or even in the same direction. There's an audience for "old-skool virtual world" games, just as there's an audience for FPS's, themeparks and MOBA's.
Don't try to force the process to produce one type of game or gameplay style. It will find it's own way, regardless of how hard you try to push your own agenda
I am no difference than those pushing sandbox here by just discussing our preferences. No one sane would think that a few posts in a forum is "force the process" to do anything.
And like you say, there is an audience of virtual worlds .. which is discussed to death here .. so i figure this place can use some discussions about other preferences.
Play Tetris if you have no time for gaming, it can be played in short bursts and can be entertaining for the rest of your life.
My point is that MMORPG's should be time consuming thats their appeal to me and to many others so if you have no time playing then simply don't play.
Clearly it's not for many others because if the majority of the MMO-playing community wanted games that were time-consuming, MMOs would be made that way!
This is just one more case of someone who can't separate wishful thinking from reality.
Those people really don't belong but devs makes money out of them so what to do?
[mod edit]
[mod edit]
They aren't complaining about MMORPG. Nothing in those letters state or imply long term commitments. They are complaining about the belief some have that it means long term. It doesn't.
You are stating that if you don't think they way I do, because I believe that MMORPG is for long term commitment, than MMORPG are not for you. Which is of course an absurd statement.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Play Tetris if you have no time for gaming, it can be played in short bursts and can be entertaining for the rest of your life.
My point is that MMORPG's should be time consuming thats their appeal to me and to many others so if you have no time playing then simply don't play.
Clearly it's not for many others because if the majority of the MMO-playing community wanted games that were time-consuming, MMOs would be made that way!
This is just one more case of someone who can't separate wishful thinking from reality.
Those people really don't belong but devs makes money out of them so what to do?
[mod edit]
[mod edit]
They aren't complaining about MMORPG. Nothing in those letters state or imply long term commitments. They are complaining about the belief some have that it means long term. It doesn't.
You are stating that if you don't think they way I do, because I believe that MMORPG is for long term commitment, than MMORPG are not for you. Which is of course an absurd statement.
[mod edit]
It's not absurd because I say it it. It is absurd because, once again:
1. Nothing in MMORPG implies a specific or relative length of time.
2. A long term commitment is just your belief. Limiting someone from an activity they are allowed to participate in, and devs are welcoming because you belief it to be wrong - that is absurd, and bigotted too actually.
edit - your real mmoprg player statement reinforces this bigotted belief. That because someoen doesn't or play mmo's like you do, they are not real mmo players is bigotted.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
The most popular / financially successful game is/was already this way.
And they even work out (at least used to last time I played which was a while ago) when you factor in the availability of longer play sessions.
Using WoW as an example -
Quick: hop in and do a quest or two - minimum reward for minimum time investment (5-20 minutes)
Quick-Medium: dungeon or battleground using LFG - pretty quick to average time investment (maybe 20-60 minutes) and average/normalized reward
Medium - Long: Raid - 60 minutes - 4+ hours best reward in the game, longest time commitment.
The problem is that you/we, the user, wanted to play in 10-30 minute bites and get the same rewards as the 1-4+ hour dedicated players.
Here's the truth - you/we don't deserve it!
Want the best? Dedicate yourself to the time investment.
Don't have the time?
Slowly chip away / work towards 2nd best one bit as a time.
Shouldn't have ever changed.
They already once had single encounter raids (easily 10-30 minutes tops) and massive 4+ hour crawls.
Why? If someone does X, they should get the rewards for X. That means that a person playing for 10 minutes and can do X, gets whatever rewards are coming to them. Someone who can play for 100 minutes and does 10 of X, should get 10x the rewards for doing 10x the content. Why should anyone deserve more or less based on how long they play? It should be based on what they actually accomplish.
Some people do not see playtime as equality but overall power as equality. Thus if one player plays less then others they should not be at a large disadvantage. 1/10 the rewards for 1/10th the time? Not fair!
Sure but here is the next line of thought about that concept:
Byze size player plays 30 minutes a day on average. Complains or finds a new game because others are farther ahead then him. So devs cater to being able to get MORE out of a bite size player.
This is why games have implemented things like: Rest systems/xp penalty systems
Energy Systems
Bonus of the day
Prime time (or other scheduled time) bonus events/rewards.
Dugeon clearing limits/restrictions (once per day)
Etc.
Point is, these systems have been part of games for a long time.
It is pretty absurb because obviously devs don't agree with it.
"real MMORPG" players. Define by you? So i play STO, WOW in the past, DCUO, DDO and a few others. Am i a "real" MMORPG player, or are those "fake" MMORPG?
Originally posted by BadSpockThe problem is that you/we, the user, wanted to play in 10-30 minute bites and get the same rewards as the 1-4+ hour dedicated players.Here's the truth - you/we don't deserve it!Want the best? Dedicate yourself to the time investment.
That sounds like work. We are talking about games, not trying to get promotion.
I will play games that does not lock content based on time available.
And oh btw, even in WOW, you can do LFR, do a boss, then quit.
So no .. i am not going to dedicate to games, and will the ones that don't require me to do that. We all vote with our feet & wallet. Devs respond. That is how the market works.
List 1 game physical or electronic that doesnt require time investment + mental or physical work to play.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Comments
You will end up on many peoples ignore list and only be able to form a party with people that no one wants to play with but hey you can have dinner with your wife all day long.
Really?
I have a long friend list that i seldom have time to play with. Don't be bitter. Not everyone play video games for life.
And yeah, i do spend lots of time with my wife. Like wine-tasting trip to NAPA. Not dinner all day .. but fun all day.
People are actually quite understanding. Once you mentioined "wife aggro", they won't count it against you. I guess you are not one of those nice people?
I don't want to play with people who are not committed and ''wife aggro'' seriously?
Why?
I don't see any reason why developers should feel compelled to modify their games to the detriment of one playstyle and satisfied audience to cater to the desires of another playstyle. Particularly when one of the core aspects of an MMORPG is the community and relationships that eveolve out of them and encouraging players to whimsically jump in and out of that community will do little to promote such a community.
Please stay in WoW and don't come to the MMORPG's where some form of social interaction is required because that is clearly something that is not for you.
Don't play with me. I don't play games with commitment. Games are just entertainment.
What MMORPG that requires social interaction?
I play PS2, STO, DDO, DCUO .. none requires social interaction.
And isn't it obvious? You think you have to tell me? I obviously won't play a game where social interaction is mandatory. If i want that, i will go to a chat room.
I swear that I will never play with you.
Has over 9000 posts just on one MMORPG discussion board.
I multi-task at work and can't play games until i get home?
Games are not that important .. but discussing them is fun?
Clearly it's not for many others because if the majority of the MMO-playing community wanted games that were time-consuming, MMOs would be made that way!
This is just one more case of someone who can't separate wishful thinking from reality.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Those people really don't belong but devs makes money out of them so what to do?
The most popular / financially successful game is/was already this way.
And they even work out (at least used to last time I played which was a while ago) when you factor in the availability of longer play sessions.
Using WoW as an example -
Quick: hop in and do a quest or two - minimum reward for minimum time investment (5-20 minutes)
Quick-Medium: dungeon or battleground using LFG - pretty quick to average time investment (maybe 20-60 minutes) and average/normalized reward
Medium - Long: Raid - 60 minutes - 4+ hours best reward in the game, longest time commitment.
The problem is that you/we, the user, wanted to play in 10-30 minute bites and get the same rewards as the 1-4+ hour dedicated players.
Here's the truth - you/we don't deserve it!
Want the best? Dedicate yourself to the time investment.
Don't have the time?
Slowly chip away / work towards 2nd best one bit as a time.
Shouldn't have ever changed.
They already once had single encounter raids (easily 10-30 minutes tops) and massive 4+ hour crawls.
That sounds like work. We are talking about games, not trying to get promotion.
I will play games that does not lock content based on time available.
And oh btw, even in WOW, you can do LFR, do a boss, then quit.
So no .. i am not going to dedicate to games, and will the ones that don't require me to do that. We all vote with our feet & wallet. Devs respond. That is how the market works.
Why? If someone does X, they should get the rewards for X. That means that a person playing for 10 minutes and can do X, gets whatever rewards are coming to them. Someone who can play for 100 minutes and does 10 of X, should get 10x the rewards for doing 10x the content. Why should anyone deserve more or less based on how long they play? It should be based on what they actually accomplish.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
"Bite-size MMO's" ... are an abomination.
I can't think of anything further removed from MY idea of MMORPG's than to turn them into "10-minute action-packed playsessions". I shudder at the thought.
And just to put the cherry on top, some posters in this thread want to have "meaningful character advancement" from their 15min play sessions. Presumably they still want to reach level-cap after 4-6 weeks, otherwise they will "lose interest". If that would be possible, then someone spending 3 hours a day in the game would probably hit level-cap in 2 or 3 days.
I've no doubt that there's a huge market for "bite-sized gaming", but it simply doesn't make sense in a persistent online world with character inter-dependence, which was the original concept of MMORPG's. After wandering far from it's roots, a portion of the MMO-sphere is once again returning to explore those founding principles. The rest of MMO gaming will probably try to serve itself in bite-size chunks in another attempt to get more players (and money) than WoW.
Simple .. concept changes. There is no need for an industry to hold onto old, original ideas. Most industry evolves.
Secondly, persistent online world is not the main focus of gameplay of many MMOs anymore. Look at how much time players spend in instances.
Surely MMO is a big industry with some games still big in "worlds" (like PS2) but you can't say that is the same for every MMO anymore.
There's no doubt at all that the "MMO industry" has already "evolved" significantly in the last 15 years. The whole gaming industry has, to a certain extent. And will continue to do so.
We are already at a point where the "MMO" label is becoming somewhat superflous. When a traditionally SPG game like SimCity is reborn as an online-only multiplayer game, then it appears that a few years from now we'll not be talking about "MMO's" anymore, just about "games". And we'll be specifically commenting on the fact that a certain game is "offline-only", because they will be the exception...
However, evolution does not mean that everything in a system evolves at the same speed or even in the same direction. There's an audience for "old-skool virtual world" games, just as there's an audience for FPS's, themeparks and MOBA's.
Don't try to force the process to produce one type of game or gameplay style. It will find it's own way, regardless of how hard you try to push your own agenda
I am no difference than those pushing sandbox here by just discussing our preferences. No one sane would think that a few posts in a forum is "force the process" to do anything.
And like you say, there is an audience of virtual worlds .. which is discussed to death here .. so i figure this place can use some discussions about other preferences.
They aren't complaining about MMORPG. Nothing in those letters state or imply long term commitments. They are complaining about the belief some have that it means long term. It doesn't.
You are stating that if you don't think they way I do, because I believe that MMORPG is for long term commitment, than MMORPG are not for you. Which is of course an absurd statement.
It's not absurd because I say it it. It is absurd because, once again:
1. Nothing in MMORPG implies a specific or relative length of time.
2. A long term commitment is just your belief. Limiting someone from an activity they are allowed to participate in, and devs are welcoming because you belief it to be wrong - that is absurd, and bigotted too actually.
edit - your real mmoprg player statement reinforces this bigotted belief. That because someoen doesn't or play mmo's like you do, they are not real mmo players is bigotted.
Some people do not see playtime as equality but overall power as equality. Thus if one player plays less then others they should not be at a large disadvantage. 1/10 the rewards for 1/10th the time? Not fair!
Sure but here is the next line of thought about that concept:
Byze size player plays 30 minutes a day on average. Complains or finds a new game because others are farther ahead then him. So devs cater to being able to get MORE out of a bite size player.
This is why games have implemented things like: Rest systems/xp penalty systems
Energy Systems
Bonus of the day
Prime time (or other scheduled time) bonus events/rewards.
Dugeon clearing limits/restrictions (once per day)
Etc.
Point is, these systems have been part of games for a long time.
It is pretty absurb because obviously devs don't agree with it.
"real MMORPG" players. Define by you? So i play STO, WOW in the past, DCUO, DDO and a few others. Am i a "real" MMORPG player, or are those "fake" MMORPG?
List 1 game physical or electronic that doesnt require time investment + mental or physical work to play.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development