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Traditional Questing in GW2 Cities

AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928

I watched this video by WoodenPotatoes and he makes a point on how he would like tranditional questing mixed into the game ontop of the hearts and DE system.. without those traditional quests he feels the game feels a bit more "hollow" than it should without them.

I think in the zones it isn't really needed between the hearts and DE's there is almost always something going on or to do, but in cities I think it would be a very good idea. He explains more in the video but i think it would add a lot to the cities themselves.. All the cities are massive and have tons of things to see and explore but overall would add a lot to them if they added in a quest system inside the cities to get people more incentives and add more back stories to whats going on in each city making them a lot more enjoyable overall. Once you get 100% map you really have no reason to revisit most of the locations in the city and adding in quests to them would be a great addition imho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcykr_Gw0Go

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

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Comments

  • FionFion Member UncommonPosts: 2,348

    To each their own I guess. The last thing I want to see in GW2 is traditional questing (though in a way, if you like that the Personal Story i very similarily structured). I love the way the PvE content works in this game, adding static npc's that just spew out the same drivel as every other questing MMOG out there would kill the game for me.

    Now that I think of it, the Living Story might works semi-like a quest, but I think that's about as close as the game is likely to get to adding actual questing.

    image

  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by Fion

    To each their own I guess. The last thing I want to see in GW2 is traditional questing (though in a way, if you like that the Personal Story i very similarily structured). I love the way the PvE content works in this game, adding static npc's that just spew out the same drivel as every other questing MMOG out there would kill the game for me.

    Now that I think of it, the Living Story might works semi-like a quest, but I think that's about as close as the game is likely to get to adding actual questing.

    i don't think it's needed at all in the zones but like i said above(and he says in the video) in the cities it could add a lot and many more reasons to visit all the great locations the cities have to offer.. also they could do a lot with it and expand on the basic static npc drivel.. just would give more reasons to explore around the cities other than map completion and venders.. and spread people around more than just LA

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • VolkonVolkon Member UncommonPosts: 3,748
    I'm content to wait and see how t does with the minigames and all that added. We know the bar brawl will be along, Polymock was mentioned, etc. so perhaps these in-city activities will fill the perceived holes.

    Oderint, dum metuant.

  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by Volkon
    I'm content to wait and see how t does with the minigames and all that added. We know the bar brawl will be along, Polymock was mentioned, etc. so perhaps these in-city activities will fill the perceived holes.

    yea the mini games would help some although doesn't do much for the lore of the cities.. i think not enough really got into keg brawl so they put the other mini games off to the side for now...

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 3,363
    Polymock should have been in from the beginning since it was an EotN mini-game. That would have reallhy connected GW1 and GW2 more than they are now.


  • mazutmazut Member UncommonPosts: 988

    I think that guy is right. Qusts may only add to the game and he said it well. Not kill quests, but optional side tasks.

     

  • TorgrimTorgrim Member CommonPosts: 2,088

    Quest chains would be intresting lore wise, think of it as mini personal story, but not personal.

    I think that would work.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • FionFion Member UncommonPosts: 2,348

     

    Having watched the video instead of just reacting to the title, I can somewhat agree with WP's points. The idea of having story-focused 'quests' in the cities is a solid idea. However I wouldn't call them quests because that term has pretty negative connotations these days and no big, floaty, yellow ! over NPC heads either. Keep it as it is now, with sprinkled NPCs that have something to say but after you go through it, have them give you something to do. The 'I lost the key to my house' is a great example that could help immerse you into the world. I'd mostly like to see these in the cities, which as amazing  - and beyond anything any other MMOG has ever achieved - they do feel a bit empty because beyond map completion there’s little to do in them. Same with Personal 'home' Instance in the cities. They were supposed to be grand, changing and customizing to your story but they ended up as nothing that nobody ever visits accept RP'ers. Outside of cities, I think more non-combat dynamic events such as the exampled 'repair this guys motorcycle' to flesh out the world and give it each zone some depth would definitely be a bonus.

    As to the game world feeling 'hollow' I feel that this can only be said if you play the game like a checklist. Were when your in a new zone you just focus on downing a heart, getting all the vistas and POIs, only interact with NPCs by doing the DE's when they pop up or the Meta-Event when that pops. I feel this is a bit of a hold-over from WoW when all people paid attention to in each zone was completing all the quests, chain from chain, 'hub' to hub, never reading any of the quest text, never talking to an NPC, just completing their checklist. In point of fact if you avoid this, explore, talk to named NPCs, there is so much more depth and detail to the zones that simply isn't experienced if you just complete your checklist and move on. Secret areas of the map reveal as you look around in the corners of a zone. Cool and interesting non-event NPC interactions take place and named NPCs often have deep stories that tie the theme of the zone together.

    On a personal level I find GW2 to be the least 'hollow' or static MMOG I've ever experienced. It's such an organic style of game, cities are alive with people going about their day, cool interactions between NPCs, back-stories to learn as you explore. Most people again just treat them like a check list. If you just complete the map in Divinity's Reach you have missed 'so much' that there is to find that give the city a feeling of being living and breathing that it would astound you. This requires time to explore, interacting with the various NPCs, etc. Zones are active, events everywhere chaining and reacting (particularly post-starter zones) and an amazing amount of detail and hidden spots to discover. Yes, the NPCs walking and talking is scripted but it'd be an extreme challenge to make this more dynamic or procedurally generated interactions and beyond the purview of an MMOG.

    So yes, cities in particular could use more activities. Little 'story tasks' that spark off conversations with named NPCs (and not exclamation marks!) that give you a deeper sense of a living city, with non-combat or even investigation or puzzle elements would be fantastic. As fantastic as new Dynamic Events can be to the open zones. There's nothing like running across an event you hadn't previously experienced in a zone you 'thought' you'd done everything in. I've completed for example Queensdale 3 odd times and each time found something I hadn't found previously. I'm pretty sure that zone still has secrets I have yet to discover. New, generally non-combat 'story tasks' that you can gain by interacting with named NPCs, or even gain from overhearing a converstaion between two NPCs (Oblivion style) would be amazing.

    image

  • MardukkMardukk Member RarePosts: 2,222
    I'm pretty much in agreement with the video, although I'm not sure I would touch them.  I can't even bring myself to do the individual story parts of the game.  I'm assuming implementing them would not take a boatload of resources.  If it took more than minimal effort for the dev team I would say don't bother.
  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by Fion

     

    Having watched the video instead of just reacting to the title, I can somewhat agree with WP's points. The idea of having story-focused 'quests' in the cities is a solid idea. However I wouldn't call them quests because that term has pretty negative connotations these days and no big, floaty, yellow ! over NPC heads either. Keep it as it is now, with sprinkled NPCs that have something to say but after you go through it, have them give you something to do. The 'I lost the key to my house' is a great example that could help immerse you into the world. I'd mostly like to see these in the cities, which as amazing  - and beyond anything any other MMOG has ever achieved - they do feel a bit empty because beyond map completion there’s little to do in them. Same with Personal 'home' Instance in the cities. They were supposed to be grand, changing and customizing to your story but they ended up as nothing that nobody ever visits accept RP'ers. Outside of cities, I think more non-combat dynamic events such as the exampled 'repair this guys motorcycle' to flesh out the world and give it each zone some depth would definitely be a bonus.

    As to the game world feeling 'hollow' I feel that this can only be said if you play the game like a checklist. Were when your in a new zone you just focus on downing a heart, getting all the vistas and POIs, only interact with NPCs by doing the DE's when they pop up or the Meta-Event when that pops. I feel this is a bit of a hold-over from WoW when all people paid attention to in each zone was completing all the quests, chain from chain, 'hub' to hub, never reading any of the quest text, never talking to an NPC, just completing their checklist. In point of fact if you avoid this, explore, talk to named NPCs, there is so much more depth and detail to the zones that simply isn't experienced if you just complete your checklist and move on. Secret areas of the map reveal as you look around in the corners of a zone. Cool and interesting non-event NPC interactions take place and named NPCs often have deep stories that tie the theme of the zone together.

    On a personal level I find GW2 to be the least 'hollow' or static MMOG I've ever experienced. It's such an organic style of game, cities are alive with people going about their day, cool interactions between NPCs, back-stories to learn as you explore. Most people again just treat them like a check list. If you just complete the map in Divinity's Reach you have missed 'so much' that there is to find that give the city a feeling of being living and breathing that it would astound you. This requires time to explore, interacting with the various NPCs, etc. Zones are active, events everywhere chaining and reacting (particularly post-starter zones) and an amazing amount of detail and hidden spots to discover. Yes, the NPCs walking and talking is scripted but it'd be an extreme challenge to make this more dynamic or procedurally generated interactions and beyond the purview of an MMOG.

    So yes, cities in particular could use more activities. Little 'story tasks' that spark off conversations with named NPCs (and not exclamation marks!) that give you a deeper sense of a living city, with non-combat or even investigation or puzzle elements would be fantastic. As fantastic as new Dynamic Events can be to the open zones. There's nothing like running across an event you hadn't previously experienced in a zone you 'thought' you'd done everything in. I've completed for example Queensdale 3 odd times and each time found something I hadn't found previously. I'm pretty sure that zone still has secrets I have yet to discover. New, generally non-combat 'story tasks' that you can gain by interacting with named NPCs, or even gain from overhearing a converstaion between two NPCs (Oblivion style) would be amazing.

    agreed:)

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Member Posts: 1,788

    I can't stand the "fill the hearts" mentality of GW2.  With most MMO's, the zones and regions within the zones all have some central themes or stories going on.  Sometimes it's zone-wide, where each quest hub further develops the zone story, mixed in with some unrelated quests that help round out the experience.  Sometimes the zones may not have a specific theme, but each hub will, such as in Rift.

    With GW2, you just show up and start killing things to see what gives you credit, then move on a few minutes later.  Maybe you have to click on some items around the area as well, but that's mostly it.  Each zone also lacks any sense of story, in terms of what's going on.  You'll show up somewhere and see that this is one of the "humans fighting centaurs" parts of the map.  Over there is a "kill things around town" deal.  Keep going and you'll run into a "frogs being attacked by water snakes" thing.  None of it connects to tell any kind of story, or even give you a reason to feel like it's a living, breathing world.

    It's easy to level with though, that's for sure.  No text to read, and no thought to put into anything beyond checking your map to see what's left to "explore."  People talk about WoW like it's some sort of paint-by-numbers experience, but I've never played a game that holds your hand as much as GW2.

    You make me like charity

  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    I can't stand the "fill the hearts" mentality of GW2.  With most MMO's, the zones and regions within the zones all have some central themes or stories going on.  Sometimes it's zone-wide, where each quest hub further develops the zone story, mixed in with some unrelated quests that help round out the experience.  Sometimes the zones may not have a specific theme, but each hub will, such as in Rift.

    With GW2, you just show up and start killing things to see what gives you credit, then move on a few minutes later.  Maybe you have to click on some items around the area as well, but that's mostly it.  Each zone also lacks any sense of story, in terms of what's going on.  You'll show up somewhere and see that this is one of the "humans fighting centaurs" parts of the map.  Over there is a "kill things around town" deal.  Keep going and you'll run into a "frogs being attacked by water snakes" thing.  None of it connects to tell any kind of story, or even give you a reason to feel like it's a living, breathing world.

    It's easy to level with though, that's for sure.  No text to read, and no thought to put into anything beyond checking your map to see what's left to "explore."  People talk about WoW like it's some sort of paint-by-numbers experience, but I've never played a game that holds your hand as much as GW2.

    you and I played this game VERY differently it seems.. every single quest(heart or DE) has text to read.. MOST npcs just wandering around have text to say or VO.. scouts are purposely there to give you backround to exactly whats going on.. every heart giver explains exactly whats going on if you talk to them.. seems you didn't stick around on any events to actually see what the story behind it was

    and its funny how much i see the exact opposite complaints of your last sentance.. there are LOTS that want a more robust tutorial on how to play the game

    these are older but may help you on understanding all quests have stories but they are ALWAYS ongoing you dont always start them and see them from start to finish. This in turn is what makes them feel alive. WAY more than traditional questing imho

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTF9T4oQ480

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CyqGJHTjes

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Member Posts: 1,788

    I don't know what a more robust tutorial would accomplish.  The game is incredibly simplistic.

    As for quest text, I guess you and I have different opinions on what makes for a good story.  All I get out of GW2 is some broad overview of events.  I go to an area and fill out the heart by killing a bunch of stuff.  Then I go to the vendor who may have a few sentences saying "thanks for helping with those worms!" before offering to sell me stuff.

    The scouts do say more, but it's still just an overview.  Stuff like "this land is being assaulted by centaurs and they need your help!  Over here you have some frog people being taken as slaves."   That's nice, but it does nothing to explain *why* any of that is happening, much less why it's of any concern to me.  Are there a few bright spots, such as the first video you posted?  Yes.  They are just exceptions to the normal flow of things, which is unfortunate.

    I imagine playing GW2 is a lot like sleeping with a hooker would probably be like.  I'm sure she has some real quality personality under the fishnets, and I'm sure she'll tell you that you're the biggest and best she's ever had, but you'd have to try real hard to pretend there's any substance there.

     

    *edit* 

    Oh, and don't forget the mail you get after filling a heart!  It's like getting a christmas card from some random uncle, where you just take the money and ignore the rest.

    You make me like charity

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,066

    I've seen this video before and I've to disagree,

    Lets look at why we got rid of quests.

    We got rid of traditional quests because quest logs are boring. More we got rid of them because then to play with friends we would need to have the same quests and be on the same quest phase.

    So adding that it would be going backwards.

    We also don't want to exclude anyone for playing so they would have to be area wide.

    And of course there would be no mob tagging and no need to party.

    And no point going backward and forwards to collect rewards and deliver quest objectives.

    Look we have events.

     

    If there is a need for something is for a more predictable/reliable set of events/chains.

    So the solution is for either a better algorithm to spawn events when players have been a while without getting any, having more events triggered by talking to NPCs that lead to chains or just having more events per area.

     

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,066
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    I don't know what a more robust tutorial would accomplish.  The game is incredibly simplistic.

    As for quest text, I guess you and I have different opinions on what makes for a good story.  All I get out of GW2 is some broad overview of events.  I go to an area and fill out the heart by killing a bunch of stuff.  Then I go to the vendor who may have a few sentences saying "thanks for helping with those worms!" before offering to sell me stuff.

    The scouts do say more, but it's still just an overview.  Stuff like "this land is being assaulted by centaurs and they need your help!  Over here you have some frog people being taken as slaves."   That's nice, but it does nothing to explain *why* any of that is happening, much less why it's of any concern to me.  Are there a few bright spots, such as the first video you posted?  Yes.  They are just exceptions to the normal flow of things, which is unfortunate.

    I imagine playing GW2 is a lot like sleeping with a hooker would probably be like.  I'm sure she has some real quality personality under the fishnets, and I'm sure she'll tell you that you're the biggest and best she's ever had, but you'd have to try real hard to pretend there's any substance there.

     

    *edit* 

    Oh, and don't forget the mail you get after filling a heart!  It's like getting a christmas card from some random uncle, where you just take the money and ignore the rest.

    It is just different.

    In most games you get the story first and then the quest.

    In GW2 you get the event first most often than not and you'll have to search for story if you want to.

    There are reasons centaurs and bandits are so active in the region - many of them are explored and explained by the personal story line.

    For example why are bandits poisoning the water in Queensdale?

    In a personal story you will hear of their plan to steal the plant to poison the water so people get sick and they can break into the shops and steal everything they can.

    Also there is a conspiracy involving a minister to weaken the queen power and rule over kryta and that is why bandits are causing all this chaos and seem unstopable. And even the centaurs, that are at war with humans are in that plot. That story continues in the dungeon Caudecus Manor.

    If you want the story you will have to work for it and probably play multiple storylines.

     

    And lets be honest - most of the time many people go around in toher games picking quests read what they need and just ignore the wall of text.

     

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    I don't know what a more robust tutorial would accomplish.  The game is incredibly simplistic.

    As for quest text, I guess you and I have different opinions on what makes for a good story.  All I get out of GW2 is some broad overview of events.  I go to an area and fill out the heart by killing a bunch of stuff.  Then I go to the vendor who may have a few sentences saying "thanks for helping with those worms!" before offering to sell me stuff.

    The scouts do say more, but it's still just an overview.  Stuff like "this land is being assaulted by centaurs and they need your help!  Over here you have some frog people being taken as slaves."   That's nice, but it does nothing to explain *why* any of that is happening, much less why it's of any concern to me.  Are there a few bright spots, such as the first video you posted?  Yes.  They are just exceptions to the normal flow of things, which is unfortunate.

    I imagine playing GW2 is a lot like sleeping with a hooker would probably be like.  I'm sure she has some real quality personality under the fishnets, and I'm sure she'll tell you that you're the biggest and best she's ever had, but you'd have to try real hard to pretend there's any substance there.

     

    *edit* 

    Oh, and don't forget the mail you get after filling a heart!  It's like getting a christmas card from some random uncle, where you just take the money and ignore the rest.

    It is just different.

    In most games you get the story first and then the quest.

    In GW2 you get the event first most often than not and you'll have to search for story if you want to.

    There are reasons centaurs and bandits are so active in the region - many of them are explored and explained by the personal story line.

    For example why are bandits poisoning the water in Queensdale?

    In a personal story you will hear of their plan to steal the plant to poison the water so people get sick and they can break into the shops and steal everything they can.

    Also there is a conspiracy involving a minister to weaken the queen power and rule over kryta and that is why bandits are causing all this chaos and seem unstopable. And even the centaurs, that are at war with humans are in that plot. That story continues in the dungeon Caudecus Manor.

    If you want the story you will have to work for it and probably play multiple storylines.

     

    And lets be honest - most of the time many people go around in toher games picking quests read what they need and just ignore the wall of text.

     

    still suprises me how many skip over all the stories to all the quests... or think the quests are just random with no purpose or story behind them... there is a great one with the ascalon ghosts and the witch luring the village children. One of my favorite events.. guess game really does need a tutorial to explain to people these types of things.. i dunno

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    I disagree with that video.  Instead of using traditional questing, why not use something else?  There are other incentives to use besides questing, such as mini-games, as already mentioned..  GW2 already uses scavenger hunts for events, so if they added more of these in capitals, it would be a step in the right direction.  More immersive stories (not questing) should be developed and varied, which oddly enough, is what heart tasks are.  I just think people miss traditional questing because it offered various "stories", but so do heart tasks.  There isn't any difference between the two regarding stories, but only the mechanical process involved.
  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    I can't stand the "fill the hearts" mentality of GW2.  With most MMO's, the zones and regions within the zones all have some central themes or stories going on.  Sometimes it's zone-wide, where each quest hub further develops the zone story, mixed in with some unrelated quests that help round out the experience.  Sometimes the zones may not have a specific theme, but each hub will, such as in Rift.

    With GW2, you just show up and start killing things to see what gives you credit, then move on a few minutes later.  Maybe you have to click on some items around the area as well, but that's mostly it.  Each zone also lacks any sense of story, in terms of what's going on.  You'll show up somewhere and see that this is one of the "humans fighting centaurs" parts of the map.  Over there is a "kill things around town" deal.  Keep going and you'll run into a "frogs being attacked by water snakes" thing.  None of it connects to tell any kind of story, or even give you a reason to feel like it's a living, breathing world.

    It's easy to level with though, that's for sure.  No text to read, and no thought to put into anything beyond checking your map to see what's left to "explore."  People talk about WoW like it's some sort of paint-by-numbers experience, but I've never played a game that holds your hand as much as GW2.

    So does GW2.  An example are the  Asurans.  They have the Inquest to worry about.  Also, the Sylvari, that fights off the corruption.  The stories are there, and they connect to the main theme about the dragons.

    As for quests:

    • Fetch X, Y, Z.
    • Deliver X, Y, Z.
    • Kill A, B, C.
    • Obtain Rewards.
    Where's the difference in other MMOs and GW2?  In other MMOs,  you click an NPC, scroll through dialog text, click Accept.  Do checklist.
     
    They both have Quest Trackers on the UI, which in essence, give you the option to ignore the text/story.
    Since you mentioned WoW..  It's the exact same thing.  You grab quest, you do your checklist in the zone, return for rewards; all while giving you the option to ignore the text/story related to the quests.
  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    I can't stand the "fill the hearts" mentality of GW2.  With most MMO's, the zones and regions within the zones all have some central themes or stories going on.  Sometimes it's zone-wide, where each quest hub further develops the zone story, mixed in with some unrelated quests that help round out the experience.  Sometimes the zones may not have a specific theme, but each hub will, such as in Rift.

    With GW2, you just show up and start killing things to see what gives you credit, then move on a few minutes later.  Maybe you have to click on some items around the area as well, but that's mostly it.  Each zone also lacks any sense of story, in terms of what's going on.  You'll show up somewhere and see that this is one of the "humans fighting centaurs" parts of the map.  Over there is a "kill things around town" deal.  Keep going and you'll run into a "frogs being attacked by water snakes" thing.  None of it connects to tell any kind of story, or even give you a reason to feel like it's a living, breathing world.

    It's easy to level with though, that's for sure.  No text to read, and no thought to put into anything beyond checking your map to see what's left to "explore."  People talk about WoW like it's some sort of paint-by-numbers experience, but I've never played a game that holds your hand as much as GW2.

    So does GW2.  An example are the  Asurans.  They have the Inquest to worry about.  Also, the Sylvari, that fights off the corruption.  The stories are there, and they connect to the main theme about the dragons.

    As for quests:

    • Fetch X, Y, Z.
    • Deliver X, Y, Z.
    • Kill A, B, C.
    • Obtain Rewards.
    Where's the difference in other MMOs and GW2?  In other MMOs,  you click an NPC, scroll through dialog text, click Accept.  Do checklist.
     
    They both have Quest Trackers on the UI, which in essence, give you the option to ignore the text/story.
    Since you mentioned WoW..  It's the exact same thing.  You grab quest, you do your checklist in the zone, return for rewards; all while giving you the option to ignore the text/story related to the quests.

    presentation is key.. if it wasn't there would be no difference between Doom and Crysis 3 as they both are shooters and you run around with big guns and kill things. How gw2 presents its quests and how they actually go on with or without you is huge compared to other MMOs imho.. in most other MMOs questing is designed around the individual. You and thousands of others get the exact same quest and any one of you can follow it out from start to finish at the exact same time or at any other random intervals of times. In gw2 questing does not revolve around any individual specifically so if there is an escort quest going on you need to join up and help out you can't just go to that town and start the 100th copy of the exact same escort quest. If you happen to be the one who starts it you can see it all the way through though.. Also very very rarely do npcs just dissapear into thin air like most MMOs, most have starting locations and ending locations and will eventually walk back to their starting location or another event will take place that will get them back to the start of that previous event.  This is what makes gw2 questing special to me and gives it a more living world feel overall

    but as far as stories and what you actually "do" you get all the fun of regular MMO questing just in a better wrapper imho

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,384
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    I watched this video by WoodenPotatoes and he makes a point on how he would like tranditional questing mixed into the game ontop of the hearts and DE system.. without those traditional quests he feels the game feels a bit more "hollow" than it should without them.

    I think in the zones it isn't really needed between the hearts and DE's there is almost always something going on or to do, but in cities I think it would be a very good idea. He explains more in the video but i think it would add a lot to the cities themselves.. All the cities are massive and have tons of things to see and explore but overall would add a lot to them if they added in a quest system inside the cities to get people more incentives and add more back stories to whats going on in each city making them a lot more enjoyable overall. Once you get 100% map you really have no reason to revisit most of the locations in the city and adding in quests to them would be a great addition imho

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcykr_Gw0Go

    My opinion the Hearts should be replaced with Events or Event mechanics in that all players doing it share the same progression. that way players get through the Hearts more faster. Because the longer it takes to complete the Hearts the more Quest Hub they feel.

     

    I rather level doing just events, but thats super slow.

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916
    Originally posted by Fion

     

    As to the game world feeling 'hollow' I feel that this can only be said if you play the game like a checklist. Were when your in a new zone you just focus on downing a heart, getting all the vistas and POIs, only interact with NPCs by doing the DE's when they pop up or the Meta-Event when that pops. I feel this is a bit of a hold-over from WoW when all people paid attention to in each zone was completing all the quests, chain from chain, 'hub' to hub, never reading any of the quest text, never talking to an NPC, just completing their checklist. In point of fact if you avoid this, explore, talk to named NPCs, there is so much more depth and detail to the zones that simply isn't experienced if you just complete your checklist and move on. Secret areas of the map reveal as you look around in the corners of a zone. Cool and interesting non-event NPC interactions take place and named NPCs often have deep stories that tie the theme of the zone together.

    How else can you play the game other than as what you describe as a checklist? It's not like there is any lore in those hearts/events. They are indeed checklist. In WoW I've read every single quest and it felt much more immersive than what GW2 offers. I haven't found any NPCs which give me any interesting lore about the zone just some random stuff. The major flaw in this hearts/events system for me is the lack of long quest chains which really tell a story. I always hear about these metaevents but I've never actually seen an event which told me any kind of story and I have levelled 2 chars to 80.

    I like the idea of traditional questing in cities. Although I really wanted mini gamesbut Anet are very hush hush on the topic.

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by fivoroth
    Originally posted by Fion

     

    As to the game world feeling 'hollow' I feel that this can only be said if you play the game like a checklist. Were when your in a new zone you just focus on downing a heart, getting all the vistas and POIs, only interact with NPCs by doing the DE's when they pop up or the Meta-Event when that pops. I feel this is a bit of a hold-over from WoW when all people paid attention to in each zone was completing all the quests, chain from chain, 'hub' to hub, never reading any of the quest text, never talking to an NPC, just completing their checklist. In point of fact if you avoid this, explore, talk to named NPCs, there is so much more depth and detail to the zones that simply isn't experienced if you just complete your checklist and move on. Secret areas of the map reveal as you look around in the corners of a zone. Cool and interesting non-event NPC interactions take place and named NPCs often have deep stories that tie the theme of the zone together.

    How else can you play the game other than as what you describe as a checklist? It's not like there is any lore in those hearts/events. They are indeed checklist. In WoW I've read every single quest and it felt much more immersive than what GW2 offers. I haven't found any NPCs which give me any interesting lore about the zone just some random stuff. The major flaw in this hearts/events system for me is the lack of long quest chains which really tell a story. I always hear about these metaevents but I've never actually seen an event which told me any kind of story and I have levelled 2 chars to 80.

    I like the idea of traditional questing in cities. Although I really wanted mini gamesbut Anet are very hush hush on the topic.

    you missed a lot of npcs then(obviously "interesting" is very subjective).. many give you lore or backround same as anything you find in other MMO questing.. you can wander around the major cities and listen to converstation about things going on and such.. the delivery works a lot better imho than typical text based mmos but that is a preference thing as many don't have any issue with just straight text on everything but in creating a more "alive" feeling world I feel gw2 is leaps over majority of MMOs in this regard.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048

    I don't see a reason why not. I mean, its still there, the 'hearts' are just glorified traditional quests and its very easy to see just that, the glitter it provides is something that I'm sure wears off in most people's eyes after a few hours realizing that its the same old quests repackaged slightly different and in some cases, unfortunately being a lot more tedious (Hearts with quest objectives you want to avoid mean things like 'killing' a certain creature takes a LOT more to accomplish then most quests in other games). 

     

    Traditional quests are just a good thing to provide direction and help feel like your accomplishing some big objective if its done in the right context. 

  • tintilinictintilinic Member Posts: 283
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    you missed a lot of npcs then(obviously "interesting" is very subjective).. many give you lore or backround same as anything you find in other MMO questing.. you can wander around the major cities and listen to converstation about things going on and such.. the delivery works a lot better imho than typical text based mmos but that is a preference thing as many don't have any issue with just straight text on everything but in creating a more "alive" feeling world I feel gw2 is leaps over majority of MMOs in this regard.

    I think its the lack f exclamation marks. People are so deep in WoW mentality that if they dont see exclamation mark they ignore it.

    Just in Divinity Reach there are lot of books you can read...but no exclamation marks...so why even enter these areas to find this stuff? Stand to listen to NPC banter?

    And i was pleasantly surprised how personal stories are interwiened up to level 50.

    Personally i dont think theres need for "traditional quests" in GW2 as they do great what they do and should continue what theyre doing, in a way, as someone said before, it would be step backwards.

  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    I don't see a reason why not. I mean, its still there, the 'hearts' are just glorified traditional quests and its very easy to see just that, the glitter it provides is something that I'm sure wears off in most people's eyes after a few hours realizing that its the same old quests repackaged slightly different and in some cases, unfortunately being a lot more tedious (Hearts with quest objectives you want to avoid mean things like 'killing' a certain creature takes a LOT more to accomplish then most quests in other games). 

     

    Traditional quests are just a good thing to provide direction and help feel like your accomplishing some big objective if its done in the right context. 

    hearts are fine fill in the gap type things imho.. you have numerous ways to complete any one and you get the benefit of a nice karma vender for finishing it as well.. much better than the filler kill 10 x quests other MMOs use as filler. But in cities it would be nice to have some other lore providing objectives to do and some sort of questing system inside the cities would be a nice addition.. there is a lot to see and find in the cities but most just pass over it because there is little reason to listen or visit many of the locations in them outside map completion.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

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