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[Poll] Let's talk combat...

OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
So, with all the back and forth on TSW combat, thought I'd try to break it down a little more to see about pinpointing exactly where folks are having issues and what they like.  Sound off on the poll and explain more below, but please try to keep the "Failcom Suxx!!!" comments to a minimum and be constructive. :)
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Comments

  • Wheel system - good, complex and not entirely balanced but interesting so good

    Animations - they are pretty bad.  If you actually moved that way you would throw out your back

    Builder - its ok I guess.  I mean it adds an extra layer but its really not that interesting.  Only thing I liked about it was how different sets did their build up different and you have two things going on at once

  • Rthuth434Rthuth434 uniondale, NYPosts: 346Member

    since no proper poll options exist:

    - Wheel is a decent idea. it doesn't really offer the synergy or variety of a game like the first guild wars, even though GW had classes.

    - Animations are quite bad overall, distractingly so.

    - Builder/finisher system is lazy(wouldn't be if it were exclusive to one "deck"), and gets old right away because most people have probably played a rogue in WoW for an hour in their lifetime.

    - Combat overall not confusing at all, just very boring.

  • BjelarBjelar RullumpPosts: 384Member

    Wheel system - Some redundant skills, but overall great for digging out synergies. (There is no way GW had more synergies in their decks ;))

    Animations - I still have no clue what people find wrong about the animations. I think they are the best in any game yet. They are possibly TOO good, it may be a psycological effect of having so lifelike animations and-yet-not-quite-human like. Cartoon-figures jumping like nothing alive is ok, life-like animations are not. I don't know.

    Builder/consumer - Looks boring and easy at first, but gets terribly complicated with passivs which triggers on the 6th or 7th builder + various effects triggering and fizzling out at predictable intervals.

  • PWN_FACEPWN_FACE SeoulPosts: 670Member

    I never understood why some people hate the combat. It's fine as is, to me. Of course, it's subjective. I've also read about "uncanny valley" and how for some reasons the animations in TSW are unappealing because of it. I don't get that either. I'm not saying it isn't a valid complaint for those who feel that way. I just don't see it.

     

    A little off topic:

     

    My only problem is what feels like grind to me in pvp or the whole gear progression mechanic for both pvp and pve. That's not a knock on TSW. If you like a complex game with the dungeon-based gear progression endgame model, this is an excellent choice. It's just that I'm not sure if I have the energy to do that in yet another game.

     

    Some people say the grindy feeling comes from the combat. That's not the case for me. It's just the whole needing so many different sets of talismans for all the options you get with the ability wheel. I have to keep at least 3 sets of gear on my for tanking, healing, pve, dps...it's just a lot and it makes me feel burned out to get it all up to QL 10 and then to go through augmenting, etc.

     

    I still keep TSW on my computer and pop in for binges of a couple of days here and there, usually on weekends. There is a certain mood in TSW  that I just sometimes really enjoy and no other game offers that. But I feel like I'm going nowhere fast and I don't want to get into a hardcore raiding schedule.

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon
    The ability wheel is ok, but I dislike both the builder/finisher system and animations. The system improves later on, but it's not acceptable for a game's combat to be boring for hours IMO. Of course, most MMOs have this problem. I never understood the need for a 20 hours long, boringly easy tutorial.
  • gwei1984gwei1984 GrazPosts: 375Member Uncommon

    Wheel System: Is absolutely great. There is some tweaking and buffing needed, but that should be clear with over 500 skills. I think its one of the best skill systems I ever played with. Love to do some decks, which differ from the usual cookie cutter builds.

     

    Animations: They are ok. They got no high fantasy lighting effects, but I think that fits better for the real world setting. I think many people have problems, that they are quite unspectacular. But anyway, no one would ever do some flic-flacs with their weapons or jump about 10 meters high firing their assault rifle while dancing in the air.. Some are pretty fine (Cold Blooded, many Pistol-Skills, Sword, Hammer), some really need to get some better animations (mainly Chaos, Assault Rifle)

     

    Combat in general: I love that you need to be in motion in combat, and that no skill roots you in place. This leads to enormous mobility in Nightmares and PvP, which makes it very intersting to fight and move. But as some said, I would also like to see more other mechanics, than builder/comsumer. The quantum bracer did some nice intruduction there and I hope it gets developed more into this direction.

     

    Hodor!

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon

    For my own self:

    Love the wheel and figuring out decks, and really enjoy the feel of combat -- dodging and moving while being able to cast and attack makes for a great experience.

    The animations are average (sometimes very good, especially blade and hammer), but overall could use improvement.  I don't mind that the combat is less flashy, but there certainly could be more variety in the animations, especially with the Chaos and Blood magic.  There also could be a bit more "heaviness" and "kickback" built into the shotgun and assault rifle animations.

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member

    I really like the combat, I play pretty similiar to this style and it feels super dynamic

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG2EA2qspSY

     

    If people just standing around like in an old school MMO pushing buttons 11111211, it´s their own fault for "not liking combat"

     

    regarding animation, they are already fixing the animation blending so the choppy feeling sometimes will be gone

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
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  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph SarajevoPosts: 1,070Member Uncommon

    all is ok for me,ability wheel & animations,game play mechanic is perfect for an mmoRPG

    Point in rpg is build character ,combat and other action stuff are  less important,TSW rpg is not shooter/action game with  rpg elements  .

    I am sorry, If you dislike combat in TSW ,this game is not for you ,search for another game ,try PS2 it is good shooter mmo or wait for awesome Defiance(it ll be main shooter mmo).

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon

    Love the skill wheel and having to plot out synergies as well as learn new weapons and the like.

    Combat I voted as average, but I meant that as if comparing to every video game in exhistence, including console games.  Like the last poster said, it's an MMORPG and the most important things for me in an RPG is the story and character/skill building.  Combat is a second class citizen and if graded as such, I'd say the combat is great as well.  

    I love the game as a whole, the only think I wish is that there could be scooter/cycle/dunebuggy mounts...would be awesome.

    Any other wish I have is un-realistic and would be impossible to implement so I really dont even consider them.

    image
  • RohnRohn Saint Peters, MOPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon

    I love the ability wheel - very deep, and allows me to build the character I want.

    The animations are fine.  Much ado about nothing, really, as far as the criticism is concerned.  And the graphics are great.

    Overall, I really like the combat in the game.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • WillyMMORPGWillyMMORPG Texarkana, TXPosts: 78Member

    I love the overwhelming amount of customization available via the wheel and using AP/SP to modify builds.

     

    At first, it may seem a bit daunting, particularly since some good stuff takes getting to the outer wheel, but once you get the hang of "synergy" between abilities -- a passive gives you a heal or a damage buff if you penetrate, another passive afflicts a normal monster every time you hit it, an then an active ability like "Clear the Path" (Blades) gives you a percentage chance to penetrate when attacking afflicted monsters -- stuff really starts to work out great.

     

    And then, the advanced strategy on builds starts to creep into the game. Wow, that last monster really kicked my tail, what gives? And you notice that variety monster is buffed against penetration, so you have to use a totally different strategy to take it down.

     

    If you go into the Secret World thinking in terms of mundane, mainstream AAA MMOs (I'm looking at you, World of Warcraft, not so fast Star Wars: the Old Republic, you're guilty too) you will have to adjust your whole way of thinking.

     

  • DinastyDinasty Posts: 111Member Uncommon

    Builder, builder, builder, builder, builder, spend.

     

    Garbage, boring, repetative system.

    I played about a week and said screw this lame mess.

     

    The wheel is fine though.

  • EhllfhireEhllfhire Sacramento, CAPosts: 597Member
    I voted dislike wheel and everything. Sorry wheel is a round skill tree. Nothing new nor innovative. Animations are good if it was 2004 all over again but it isnt so they are not good.

    Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
    PS3

  • ragz45ragz45 rochester hills, MIPosts: 688Member Uncommon

    I have no issue with the combat animations or the wheel.  To me the combat it's self is borring.  The only option combat wise is to build up resources (combo points) and then expend them with your resource user.  Regardless of what deck, weapon, etc I use.  This is always the same.  I really dislike that type of combat, and I don't play classes in any other mmo's that have it.  In TSW I'm not given a choice at all, that style of combat is all that is available.  Yes some weapons build up combo points differently, and some weapons expend those points differently.  But they are still combo points regardless.  

    I refused to play a Rogue or Feral druid in WoW for the same reasons, this type of combat puts me to sleep personally. (quite litterally)  Some other options as far as combat systems go would go a long ways toward making the game better for me personally.

    As far as the wheel goes, they stopped too short imo.  If they had expanded the wheel out to be more like Path of Exiles passive system the ammount of character customization would have been insane.  As it is right now it's too linear and short sighted.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rohn

    I love the ability wheel - very deep, and allows me to build the character I want.

    The animations are fine.  Much ado about nothing, really, as far as the criticism is concerned.  And the graphics are great.

    Overall, I really like the combat in the game.

    ^My feelings almost exactly.

    I played the beta and it seemed kinda ok. I guess because it was a beta and I new I couldn't save my character I didn't get into it very much. I found it a decent game but nothing I would buy and pay a sub for.

    Now that the game has gone B2P, I am playing again and it is a very, very, good mmorpg imho. 

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon

    Interesting so far, looks like the majority of folks (based on the small sample admittedly), are ok with the wheel system in some shape or form, but the issues are mostly animations, "feel" of combat, and/or the builder/finisher mechanic.  I know the devs are actively working on improvements to the first two, but not sure how much will change with base mechanic.  

    In my my own experience I've mixed in special abilities with the builder/finisher: mob pulls, hate redirects, column attacks, speed/slows, cc, regens, etc, but I think the real special attacks are mostly reserved for the aux weapons.  The mechanic is a key component of combat, though, so if this style doesn't suit you, I could see having a hard time -- not sure it will change.  That said, the devs have said there will be additions to the wheel, so who knows?  

  • SiugSiug TallinnPosts: 1,236Member Uncommon
    I really like the wheel system, especially the fact that you can play any class you like and different modifications inside any particular role (like playing a DPS with rifle/shotgun or elemental magic/pistols instead - there are a lot of combinations). Also, I have never had any problems with combat or combat animations. They can be made better of course bur for me personally it's a non-issue. Playing since headstart and still like TSW a lot.
  • VincerKadenVincerKaden Edison, NJPosts: 457Member

    I went with "I like figuring out decks on the wheel, but animations are just average"

    I don't mind the animations, though. They do what I need them to do. I didn't vote for the top answer ("great") because I don't think they're top notch. But I'm very pleased with the number of abilities I can mix and match.

    The sample size is rather small (65 votes as of now), but it seems that the majority are quite fine with the combat and skill system that TSW presents.

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  • WillyMMORPGWillyMMORPG Texarkana, TXPosts: 78Member

    Combat animations have never been a high priority with me (as long as it doesn't look like some wimpy Dancing-with-the-Stars jazz hand kind of thing). It's always boiled down to "fun". Is the game fun? (the answer here to TSW is definitely).

     

    I played EQ1 for 4+ years and we all know that game has never looked very good, the MMO equivalent of stick figures but I had fun while I was playing it and it was about the quests, the raiding and the social interaction with my guild and others.

     

    I played World of Warcraft for 6.5 years and, see also EQ1, everyone knows that game is bottom of the barrel when it comes to graphics, but it was FUN while I played it. I could care less if that dwarf looked realistic and finished his attack with a breathtaking flourish, my troll rogue was going to vanish and backstab him from the shadows, so it was all good.

     

     

    I can see why the Ridalin crazed attention-deficite-disordered youth of today would get antzy if the game they are playing doesn't have 4000 things going at any given micro-second, but it's kind of sad to condemn a game that's as good as the Secret World because of "combat animations".

     

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    while i dislike the overall animations and hate the look of the characters in general that wasn't really the biggest issue for me.. for me it was every build even with all the choices played with the exact same mechanics.. not sure if the aux weapons changed this at all but what I mean is every build was based around loading up builders and doing finishers.. In other games generally one or two classes were built on this mechanic like rogues usually but not every single class and after i unlocked my third build set I just couldn't do another because it all felt the exact same... again not sure if aux weapons work on the same mechanic as I haven't logged in since they were added...

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • RemyVorenderRemyVorender Riverside, RIPosts: 3,266Member Uncommon

    Option 2

     

    Love the wheel. I tinker and test builds more than I actually play the game. The animations are passable for me now that they've made some changes to them.

    Played: AA, AC1, AC2, Aion, AO, AoC, CO, CoX, DAoC, DCUO, DN, EVE, EQ1, EQ2,
    ESO, FE, FFXI, FFXIV, FF, GW1, GW2, Istaria, L2, LoTRO, MO, MxO, NW, Rift, RoE,
    Ryzom, SB, SWG, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, WAR, WoW, WURM...

  • Any good RPG should have, among others, the major design goal of "No no-brainers".

     

    The problem with the combat resource system is not that exists but that it does very poorly in this department.

  • DrowNobleDrowNoble Trenton, MIPosts: 1,296Member

    Strange people complain about the animations not being "real", since a lot of them were done with motion capture. 

    Just can't please some people I guess.

    I like both the wheel and animations.  It allows for variety so that no two characters will be exactly alike.  Sure you can do a deck if you're feeling lazy, but eventually you'll start adding an ability here and there making your character unique.

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon

    Wow 96 votes -- much better sampling.  So 74% of people are ok with or like the wheel system, but 37.5% dislike the animations, feel or build/consumer mechanic.  22.9% think that the animations are just average.  21.9% think the whole combat system is great, while 4.1% dislike everything about the system.

    So I think we can at least say that animations and feel are biggest issues folks have right now with TSW combat.  Thanks everyone -- glad to get more specific info about combat and looking forward to more improvements to the system as the devs in Raleigh get their house in order.

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