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True ES First Person

WellzyCWellzyC Stillwater, MNPosts: 557Member Uncommon

 

 

Quote from ESO Dev Matt Firor's Interview:


"We are still working on this system, but as it stands right now, we have first and third person support, just like in any other Elder Scrolls game. The only difference is that you don't see your hands and weapons in first-person mode."

 

 

Frustrating, to say the least. I know lots of people have started to post about this and are making a pretty big fuss about it on a lot of fan based forums. This isn't a deal breaker by any means for me, but it definitely is very frustrating and disappointing from an Elder Scrolls fan stand point.

I like to play as an archer, and seeing my bow and my hands as I am loading up and arrow, now only makes it really easier to aim, but adds a lot to the immersion part of the game.

I really hope they listen to the community and add True ESO first person to the game. I know they mention that 3rd person makes it easier  to pay attention to your surrounding ect ect. but thats what the scroll mouse is for, fast swap from 3rd to first is what Skyrim did very well, and i think it would be great for ESO.

The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


www.CeaselessGuild.com

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Comments

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,622Member Uncommon

    I'll give you this: it is ironic that the MMO version of the franchise that pioneered (Ultima Underworld did it first but TES: Arena was based on UU anyway) first person RPGs with aiming isn't doing it the Darkfall way. The DF system is pretty well a copy of the TES combat mechanics.

    But on the other hand, I never play MMOs that have the option of 1st person/3rd person in anything but 3rd person POV. Why? Two words: situational awareness. Even in PVE group play you need to know what's all around you to play well. In PVP/RvR it's prety much a requirement for me. Not only do I play in 3rd person, for PVP I scroll the POV back as far as the game allows for even more awareness.

    I'm fine with it in an MMO version of TES.

  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member
    Originally posted by Iselin

    I'll give you this: it is ironic that the MMO version of the franchise that pioneered (Ultima Underworld did it first but TES: Arena was based on UU anyway) first person RPGs with aiming isn't doing it the Darkfall way. The DF system is pretty well a copy of the TES combat mechanics.

    But on the other hand, I never play MMOs that have the option of 1st person/3rd person in anything but 3rd person POV. Why? Two words: situational awareness. Even in PVE group play you need to know what's all around you to play well. In PVP/RvR it's prety much a requirement for me. Not only do I play in 3rd person, for PVP I scroll the POV back as far as the game allows for even more awareness.

    I'm fine with it in an MMO version of TES.

    I was about to post this same point.  While a first person view might be normal in ES games, there are far too many things to be aware of in an MMO, especially during PvE raids and PvP.

    If 1st person still becomes popular regardless, I am fairly confident the devs will make it resemble previous ES games as soon as possible.

    image

  • some-clueless-guysome-clueless-guy ItalyPosts: 18Member Uncommon

    You could play in "first person" in vanilla WoW, you just couldn't see your hands.... is there a difference here?

    Feels like they are putting first person there just for RP purpose or to add one more feature to "please" the fans.

    In a pvp enviroment, third person is too superior to first person, so it makes no sense to expect players to keep their view hindered just for the sake of realism. I fear this is one of those features you can't really implement in a MMO.

    Speaking of which: I'm really looking forward to try the slow-motion from zooming with bow, I'm wandering about how they overcome the fluctuations in the time continuum allowing multiple players to alter the speed of time, at the same time! Maybe even while aiming at each other! *insert smiley here*

  • MaxJacMaxJac Another Dimension, CAPosts: 185Member
    I wander how many ES players use third versus first in the single player games. I suspect overwhelmingly first. I wouldn't mind an MMO that did just first. It would mean it would have to be the quality that makes it so good in Bethesda titles.
  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member

    Situational awaeness doesn't really mean much in single players games or single player MMO's for that matter, like TESO.

    However, I could see 3rd person being superior in TESO's instanced PVP battles, but for just wandering around in PVE mode, not so much .. unless you just want this game to feel like every other game.

     

    ES did have a fun 1st person mechanic, and I forsee many fans buying the game without reading up on it (just by brand recognition), only to start blogging, "what the hell is this crap?" .. hehe

     

     

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • azarhalazarhal Somewhere, BCPosts: 763Member Uncommon

    I personally think they should have only 1st person with a vanity 3rd person. You know, just to try to be different from the rest of the MMO mass. Why not go all the way toward more Elder Scroll like. If everybody can only fight in 1st person the excuse that  "situational awareness" give an advantage in 3rd give goes away.

     

    They are already pissing off all the "tab targetting" crowd with the combat system anyway . Well, the QQ haven't started yet, but Neverwinter use a similar system: mouse pointer locked to the middle of the screen, targetting is done through mouse pointer focus and you have to use the keyboard to use abilities, no clicking here, also dodging is in. The NWO beta forum was full of QQ about this system after the first beta weekend. Some people just can't play without clicking icons with the mouse and you can tell they are "MMOs players", because they keep saying stuff like "but other MMOs allowed me to do it".

     

    NWO combat system is extremely well done, responsive and easy to use (remembering what 6 buttons do is not hard, is it?). If TESO combat works this way, it will be awesome. But I fear that the MMOers will QQ and the dev will change it to please them. Because since the game was announced, ZOS have only shown one thing: they don't really know the Elder Scrolls fans...

  • TokenaruTokenaru Austin, TXPosts: 58Member
    Originally posted by Iselin

    I'll give you this: it is ironic that the MMO version of the franchise that pioneered (Ultima Underworld did it first but TES: Arena was based on UU anyway) first person RPGs with aiming isn't doing it the Darkfall way. The DF system is pretty well a copy of the TES combat mechanics.

    But on the other hand, I never play MMOs that have the option of 1st person/3rd person in anything but 3rd person POV. Why? Two words: situational awareness. Even in PVE group play you need to know what's all around you to play well. In PVP/RvR it's prety much a requirement for me. Not only do I play in 3rd person, for PVP I scroll the POV back as far as the game allows for even more awareness.

    I'm fine with it in an MMO version of TES.

    If you pvp in real life you cant scroll out of your body.  Immersion my friend,  I think some people like 3rd person and some like first person.  Ive been dying for a gorgeous mmorpg with real first person for over 12 years now.  I am not against third person view but real first person in the style of TES should be included imho.  Not only would it set TESO apart from its competitors,  it would give the game a greater sense of attachment a player has to his/her character.  I think pvp in first person would be exciting personally.  Dungeon crawling in first person...omnomnom.

     

     

  • NikopolNikopol The ZonePosts: 626Member Uncommon

    Having both 1st and 3rd person in an MMO practically means the MMO is 3rd person. Reason above: In tough encounters you just won't cut it without the situational awareness. The only MMOs you can play all the time (or even almost all the time) in 1st person and not feel gimped are the ones designed as 1st person first and foremost (as in, Darkfall).

    On the other hand, of course having the 1st person view in as an option is better than not having it at all. Again, as above, many MMOs already have that option. When soloing / exploring I even use that option for lengths of time for immersion purposes. Still, when the going gets tough, you usually have to switch to 3rd.

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member

    Situational awarness = first person with a good mini-map.

     

    Examples:

    Sniping Mode World of Tanks.

    Cockpit view World of Warplanes.

    image
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I think its too late now. People might turn on first person for when they are wandering about exploring, but you'd be nuts to do pvp in first person when everyone else is using 3rd, likewise assuming they have dome sort of elitist pve like raiding or whatever no doubt there will be lots of "stop standing in fire use 3rd person noob"

    Wish they'd made the game fixed 1st person from the off, for the immersion factor. But then if course people would have moaned about not being able to show off their gear.
  • TokenaruTokenaru Austin, TXPosts: 58Member
    Originally posted by Nikopol

    Having both 1st and 3rd person in an MMO practically means the MMO is 3rd person. Reason above: In tough encounters you just won't cut it without the situational awareness. The only MMOs you can play all the time (or even almost all the time) in 1st person and not feel gimped are the ones designed as 1st person first and foremost (as in, Darkfall).

    On the other hand, of course having the 1st person view in as an option is better than not having it at all. Again, as above, many MMOs already have that option. When soloing / exploring I even use that option for lengths of time for immersion purposes. Still, when the going gets tough, you usually have to switch to 3rd.

    Then theres the anomaly where someone plays first person but out-performs those using 3rd :)  The most "Efficient" path isnt always the most fun. 

  • WellzyCWellzyC Stillwater, MNPosts: 557Member Uncommon

     

    I just don't see how you can use the Elder Scrolls IP and not have true first person. It's a kick in the nuts to be honest, and I dont know why bethesda isnt insisting on it. Its what makes elder scrolls... well... elder scrolls..

     

    And for the "3rd person is better" bs..  You can instantly scroll out and right back into first person just like you did in Skyrim. It was fluid and worked just fine. For situations that called for 3rd person, it was a quck flick of the pointer finger... not a big deal at all.

     

    First person is very important, It needs to be in this game. Thats what elder scrolls games are.

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

  • FallguyArmyFallguyArmy Davenport, FLPosts: 80Member
    This game is turning out to become more of a generic MMORPG by the minute. Great way to destroy a franchise, Zenimax. 
  • TokenaruTokenaru Austin, TXPosts: 58Member
    I feel like the mmorpg market these days is a bit like going to McDonalds, you can get anything you want but none of it will be good for you.
  • pb1285npb1285n Brentwood, NYPosts: 505Member
    What a vague response. He never said that you wouldn't see your hands and weapon when it gets released, he simply said as it stand right now which implies that it could change. He also says they are working on it which makes sense since the game is in development.

    I don't think true first person is out of the question, and will probably come down to fan feedback and if they have the time and resources.

  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 848Member Uncommon

    When a game has optional third person/first person switching it inevitably leads to players switching to third person to gain an advantage.  Once this starts to occurr developers start to develop mechanics that challenge players in third person view.  Very soon these mechanics are problematic to do in first person view.  This leads to it becoming mandatory to play in third person view during fights. 

    In short having a third person view in a game means predominately third person play.  I find third person play incompatable with what my idea of a "Role Playing Game" is. 

     

    Third-person narrative, it is obvious that the narrator is merely an unspecified entity or uninvolved person that conveys the story and is not a character of any kind within the story being told.

    The first-person narrator is always a character within his/her own story (whether the protagonist or not). This viewpoint character takes actions, makes judgments and expresses opinions.

  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member

    Honestly I don't see why they don't throw in a good first person system to appease elder scrolls fans.  It's not like this is some small budget indie studio trying to conserve resources here.

    And this coming from someone who always has preferred third person pov.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Originally posted by Tokenaru
    I feel like the mmorpg market these days is a bit like going to McDonalds, you can get anything you want but none of it will be good for you.

    this is so true, GW2 sums it up, jack of all trades, master of none

  • AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan Advocate UK to CanadaPosts: 6,999Member Uncommon

    Elder Scrolls Online won’t include the series’ traditional first-person perspective

    “The main difference here is that in an online RPG, enemies can spawn in a 360 degree radius around you, especially in PvP,” Frior told Digital Spy. “So third-person view mode, if you use it, will give you a far greater ability to see enemies behind you. In many situations, this will be the difference between living and not surviving a combat sequence.”

    image
    Conan Vids Corsair 800d Case/i7 930 @ 4.4ghz/EVGA x58 760 Classified/Corsair Dominator 12GB 1600/Corsair HX1000 PSU/GTX 580x2/Intel X25-M SSD/2x WD 1TB Blacks/Corsair H90 cooler / 1x 28" 1900x1200 monitor/ G-19 Keyboard/ G500 mouse

  • TokenaruTokenaru Austin, TXPosts: 58Member
    Yes i understand that, and if i wanted that i can play wow. :)
  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 848Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AmazingAvery

    Elder Scrolls Online won’t include the series’ traditional first-person perspective

    “The main difference here is that in an online RPG, enemies can spawn in a 360 degree radius around you, especially in PvP,” Frior told Digital Spy. “So third-person view mode, if you use it, will give you a far greater ability to see enemies behind you. In many situations, this will be the difference between living and not surviving a combat sequence.”

    There have to be other ways of handling the 360 degree spawn issue, audible warnings, radar like mini maps, flashes on the corners of the screen lots of things.  The third person perspective moves you from being the toon in the game (role playing) to manipulating a remote puppet (console style action).  It changes the way you make your character look from "how do I want other players to see me" to "how do I want my puppet to look".  It creates a desire for BAMF animations for you to see while you play with your puppet rather than getting on with business.

  • walltarwalltar Uherske HradistePosts: 58Member

    I see problem in one thing ... how many people would use 1st person month from release? I played even oblivion (with mods) and Skyrim in third person, using 1st person only with bow. And if this game wants to have chance to succeed it have to offer 3rd person. And when there is functioning 3rd person view then most people would use it. Id say let them make 1st person how it is now and they can make "real" 1st person after release, if there is demand for it.

     

    Or they could go with 1st person only and fail as MMO. I don't think that there is enough TES players interested in MMO to keep this alive so they need generic MMO players and i dont think there is many MMO player who wants to play 1st person only game ... I sure don't. I think, that they choosen the right way ... month after release there won't be anybody using 1st person except some RP and solo players.

  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 848Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by walltar

    I see problem in one thing ... how many people would use 1st person month from release? I played even oblivion (with mods) and Skyrim in third person, using 1st person only with bow. And if this game wants to have chance to succeed it have to offer 3rd person. And when there is functioning 3rd person view then most people would use it. Id say let them make 1st person how it is now and they can make "real" 1st person after release, if there is demand for it.

     

    Or they could go with 1st person only and fail as MMO. I don't think that there is enough TES players interested in MMO to keep this alive so they need generic MMO players and i dont think there is many MMO player who wants to play 1st person only game ... I sure don't. I think, that they choosen the right way ... month after release there won't be anybody using 1st person except some RP and solo players.

    Or they could go with 1st person only and succede in being a mmoRPg,  but yes that has the danger of less financial success. If they actually developed a first person game(or someone else did) they would have to avoid the "third person required" mechanics that exist in MMOs today.  These mandate third person play even where there is a first person option.

  • walltarwalltar Uherske HradistePosts: 58Member
    Originally posted by craftseeker

    Or they could go with 1st person only and succede in being a mmoRPg,  but yes that has the danger of less financial success. If they actually developed a first person game(or someone else did) they would have to avoid the "third person required" mechanics that exist in MMOs today.  These mandate third person play even where there is a first person option.

     

    Well i dont see any "third person required" mechanics in TESO ... it won't be point and click, there should be croshair. I think that playing without alomst 180° fov, peripheral vision and head rotation is what mandate to play in 3rd person. Maybe if they make good eyefnity and Track IR support i would play some 1st person. But there are even less people with eyefinity and Track IR so i dont think i see that in MMO. For me one monitor 1st person is even less immersive than 3rd person ... it is like playing with this on...

    If you think about it, even SP TES games are more and more 3rd person friendly. I hope that next TES game has auto zoom for bow (like war of roses)

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon

    Third person..? first person? Doesn't matter to me. Everything about the game, any game, is the same regardless of how we view it. If Gears of War was in first person.. it'd be exactly the same.. it's just easier to effectively use cover and such in third person. I see no reason why either viewing mode would affect gameplay in TESO. Third person just makes more sense overall because then you can see what is attacking you from all angles.

    Anyway, I like to see my armor that I work so hard to get in RPG's.. I always wished the third person animations in ES games were better so I could use it instead.

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