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What's with the housing talk?

vonbose0vonbose0 Anchorage, AKPosts: 23Member

MJ keeps mentioning housing. I left daoc before they added housing, so my question really is does housing promote social interaction, or rvr? Also does anyone really care? My guild had a house in UO, but it didn't really promote gameplay other than it was a storage closet and the idea of a universal bank in a game world seems forced and silly; where are they really storing everyone's stuff?

i would prefer housing that was more like a guild hall located within an existing city that is full of people.

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  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    I loved housing in UO and DAOC. I like when I don't want to do pvp, I can craft, or go around vendor shopping. I meet people at their houses, and have made many ingame friends just wandering about shopping. I like building and decorating. I like being able to put my trophies in it.

    image

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  • VargurVargur OsloPosts: 143Member
    Originally posted by vonbose0

    MJ keeps mentioning housing. I left daoc before they added housing, so my question really is does housing promote social interaction, or rvr? Also does anyone really care? My guild had a house in UO, but it didn't really promote gameplay other than it was a storage closet and the idea of a universal bank in a game world seems forced and silly; where are they really storing everyone's stuff?

    i would prefer housing that was more like a guild hall located within an existing city that is full of people.

    I agree that housing located within excisting cities will work for most people. I for one, would settle for renting a room in an inn and instancing that would make sense. I always thought DAoC could have utilized housing within the capitols better. Sadly, the capitols became ghost towns as people had less and less reasons to go there.

    After SI was released, and even worse after housing allowed crafting in houses, crafters spread from a few spots where they worked and talked, to a scattered crowd. I did like the way EQ2 did housing, but also think that guilds, and some players, want a garden they can tend to.

    Housing is not a critical feature for me, but I think it can enhance a game if done properly.

  • General_Dru-ZodGeneral_Dru-Zod Unknown, CAPosts: 136Member
    Originally posted by Tayah
    I loved housing in UO and DAOC. I like when I don't want to do pvp, I can craft, or go around vendor shopping. I meet people at their houses, and have made many ingame friends just wandering about shopping. I like building and decorating. I like being able to put my trophies in it.

    This.

    Housing was good, you can purchase items from their merchant set up just outside the house. It also provide item vendors for crafting and some houses even had portal NPCs that would port you places (which Zod is sure will not be in CU)

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  • StilerStiler Athens, TNPosts: 599Member

    This is just from my experiences. I have played mmo's with housing, from Ultima Online (pre tram/felucia) back in 98-2001 when the game was full open pvp/looting, to EQ2 with it's "instanced" inns you rent at a city and things in between.

    Of all the mmo's I played, no other game came close to UO's sense of "community" except for SWG, which used pretty much the same style of housing.

    Open world, non-instanced, with player crafters that coudl sell their good sfrom their houses/setup vendors, etc.

    In UO you could have everything from a very small cottage type of house, to a huge castle (which were a lot more expensive). Once you purchaesd a deed for one of this, you could go out and just find a spot big enough for it and build your house, the world was open and it felt great. This led to guilds and people forming small "towns" and communities, which in turn sparked friendships, alliances, a sense of community, etc.

    Crafters would setup their houses as shops, and you could buy goods from peopole that lived within your communities, or even just out and about find a house with a vendor or a crafter.

    To give an example of this from my personal experience, I was out travelling in UO once an dneeded some new armour, so I happened by a small house with a porch that had a forge on it, and happened to see a guy working there making things and he had a couple of vendors at his front door, so I stopped and browded the vendors to see if he had what I needed on them, he didn't, but he noticed me and struck up a conversation asking me what I was looking for. I told him and he said he could make it for me and did, he eventually became my "go to" crafter and we became friends.

    As well in UO, where my guild lived in our small keep just east of Britiana on Lake Superior (that's the server i was on) there was a small community there that consisted of our guild (FMK) and KFG, which formed an alliance. However the community was awesome here because people actually di dthings. We'd have house parties, where people would hang out. We had tournaments, where people would duel each other to win prizes, etc. It felt as close to a "real" community of friends and gamers then any game since then to me,.

    Within your houses you could decorate things (you didn't HAVE to, it was just something you could do, and MANY people did), this allowed houses to be unique, have their own "styles" and interior designs, it made things feel much more "personal" and not just generic housing 101.

    In my experience nothing kills a thriving social community faster then "instances" by making housing instaned you get rid of the sense of community that comes from players forming their own towns, you get rid of crafters and people that just "happen by" their houses.

    SWG was the only game that came close to UO with it's housing, which was non-instanced and very similiar, crafters could setup their own shops in houses, use vendors, etc.

    In SWG I remember on my server(bloodfin, IIRC) there was this crafter who was very well known, he was named Enott. He bascially was one of the highest quality  crafters ont he server, making some of the best weapons/armour. He had people that he used to find resources for him and other things that allowed him to stay ahead of most other crafters and become known as such, it created a market specifically for his goods, which he used to sell them at higher prices then most other crafters, he wasn't known for being that "friendly or nice" and he bascially gouged the hell out of pricing on his goods because of their superior quality, but people bought them becaues they were the best.

    One crafter did not like this at all, and in the spirit of free trade he did something that you could only have done in this type of open world game with non-instanced housing. He opened his shop a stones throw away from Enotts, he had then stockpiled a good deal of quality resources to make gear that was as close to the quality of Enotts as possible. He then announced a "grand" opening for his goods and announced that his prices would be much much lower then Enotts. he was named cAella if I remember correctly.

    Enott, of course, did not like this one bit. He was a threat to his business, he started making rumours about this crafter, calling him an exploiter, cheat, etc. On the grand opening Enott even showed up and made a scene, shouting rumours about the guy, and bascially trying his best to smear him. he even HIRED other people to do this throughout the day of his grand opening.

    This is something you simply would not have in WoW, or EQ2, or other placesthat use other means for it's economy, such as auction houses, instanced housing, etc.

    That brings up anotheor point, Auction houses, I REALLY REaLLY hope there aren't any, or if there are they only exist for low value goods (IE noobie items) and resources, and NOT for higher level armor, weapons, etc. This is exactly what SWG did, they had an AH but only for these things, the higher priced goods you had to actually FINd and visit crafters houses and shops to do so, that's why Enott and the other crafters become known,a nd why people actually VISITED houses and it helped foster communities that otherwise an AH would have killed.

     

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    I spent as much time shopping in SWG as I did fighting, why? Because I liked to go to the house of the crafter, get to know them, see how they decorated, and buy directly from the player. As long as we don't have an auction house it will promote social interaction. I also loved being able to display trophies and decor from my adventures in my SWG home. I ran a guild hall that I converted into an art galley, and it got a decent amount of people to come to our little player town just to check it out. I was very proud ;)

    On a deeper level, housing creates more of a personal connection to your MMORPG. Combine that with unique and deep character aesthetics and you have a very very different connection to your game than something like a WOW where you all look the same and the only thing you have for a cosmetic is a mount. I can't tell you how many times I went back to SWG just to sit in my hall, pay up rent, and go explore the old shops to see who had left, who was back, what was new. It was so much more than a character I played, it transitioned into an escape to a world that I lived out a fantasy in, which has been missing from MMORPG's for far too long.

  • shadeviceshadevice memphis, TNPosts: 68Member

    I agree, what's with the housing talk?

    IMO housing is a bonus feature completely unrelated to game play and merely Fluff/cosmetic.

    Before people get concerned with such things lets get the actual RVR etc ironed out. Just like original DAOC the game was awesome way before foundations free expansion was implemented. It made for a nice past time when a break from RVR was needed but its wayyyy down the totem poll on importance for whats trying to be accomplished here. 

  • StilerStiler Athens, TNPosts: 599Member
    Originally posted by shadevice

    I agree, what's with the housing talk?

    IMO housing is a bonus feature completely unrelated to game play and merely Fluff/cosmetic.

    Before people get concerned with such things lets get the actual RVR etc ironed out. Just like original DAOC the game was awesome way before foundations free expansion was implemented. It made for a nice past time when a break from RVR was needed but its wayyyy down the totem poll on importance for whats trying to be accomplished here. 

    Housing done correctly can give  a senes of community and social interaction far better then many other things.

    With RVR, would you rather defend no name towns/keeps, or defend area's where you've built a community and know the people that live there with you?

     

  • shadeviceshadevice memphis, TNPosts: 68Member
    Originally posted by Stiler
    Originally posted by shadevice

    I agree, what's with the housing talk?

    IMO housing is a bonus feature completely unrelated to game play and merely Fluff/cosmetic.

    Before people get concerned with such things lets get the actual RVR etc ironed out. Just like original DAOC the game was awesome way before foundations free expansion was implemented. It made for a nice past time when a break from RVR was needed but its wayyyy down the totem poll on importance for whats trying to be accomplished here. 

    Housing done correctly can give  a senes of community and social interaction far better then many other things.

    With RVR, would you rather defend no name towns/keeps, or defend area's where you've built a community and know the people that live there with you?

     

    If housing is some how integrated into RVR and must be defended yeah. That'd work. I believe that was even touched upon as an option. 

    I would deffinitely be pumped for vengeance if i came home to find my rug being urinated upon. ( Big Lebowski pun)

  • SatariousSatarious Kansas City, MOPosts: 1,075Member

    "I would deffinitely be pumped for vengeance if i came home to find my rug being urinated upon. ( Big Lebowski pun)"

    He peed on my rug!

    Personally, I think housing should ONLY be implemented in Keeps.  It would give SO MUCH value to owning a Keep.  Granted, there's always that danger of losing the Keep and thus your house.  But, perhaps, the time-sink and cost of creating the house won't be as draconian or there's the possiblity of reclaiming the house once your Guild retakes the Keep.  I'm just a really firm believer in putting as much value into holding a Keep as possible.  And this would be the ultimate value that gives people a reason to want to defend their keep.

  • TadderTadder Naples, FLPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by Satarious

    "I would deffinitely be pumped for vengeance if i came home to find my rug being urinated upon. ( Big Lebowski pun)"

    He peed on my rug!

    Personally, I think housing should ONLY be implemented in Keeps.  It would give SO MUCH value to owning a Keep.  Granted, there's always that danger of losing the Keep and thus your house.  But, perhaps, the time-sink and cost of creating the house won't be as draconian or there's the possiblity of reclaiming the house once your Guild retakes the Keep.  I'm just a really firm believer in putting as much value into holding a Keep as possible.  And this would be the ultimate value that gives people a reason to want to defend their keep.

    Maybe specialized housing and shops that give specific crafting bonuses, mansions, stables, other significant bonuses to being in a keep. But, I'd let cottages and more be in the open world without the benefits. It would let the solo artist enjoy housing.Maybe even there is a specific land where Keep artisans can craft certain items, which would make it hotly contested?

    What I'm not 100% on is that Mark has listed housing along with crafting and fighting. Does this mean housing is going to be treated somewhat as its own progression/ you need to work up to get that mansion? An interesting idea could be borrowed from SWG (only game I know of could be others) where there were mayors of towns (elections always rigged) who would gain experience based on the size of their town etc. More mayor levels (or maybe city levels i forget?) allowed for placement of new buildings, taverns, hospitals. Maybe CU could have housing progression as a City manager/Mayor type progression where guys and girls who want to manage cities, placement, defenses, etc, level up from owning small cottages to big cottages to shops, mansions?

  • JaedorJaedor Denver, COPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon

    Lots of players are looking for immersion in games and mostly it refers to the desire to log in and get really into the game while hours fly by. Some players do that with raiding, grinding rep or achievements and money making, while others do it with the so-called "fluff" elements: crafting, pets, cosmetics, mounts, achievements, RP and housing.


    Regardless of whether it appeals to you or not, it's all about what makes you want to log in and while away the hours.


    Done well, housing can provide a huge time and money sink, generate player-created content, spark the economy and crafting with housing items to be made and consumed, and really energize the player base to commit to a game. More than that, it immerses the player into creating something unique and really gets them invested in the game.


    Rift recently launched an expansion with sandboxy housing and it is very popular. If you want to see some examples of what players can do, check out the entries in their Facebook contest that ended last week: https://apps.facebook.com/rift_joyofdimensions/contests/311586/voteable_entries/list?order=votes&view_entries=1


  • SwiftrevoirSwiftrevoir Largo, FLPosts: 156Member

    Short answer, yes it adds many opportunities for guilds and the like to RP and feel more at "home" in a game.  Some of my best memories in DAoC were with my old guild led by Damion Goldblade in our hall discussing business and adventure.  It was a place to commune and develop as a group inbetween tough challenges.   

    A good MMO having housing is always a major plus for me.  But housing isn't a bonus if the game doesn't have much in the way of atmosphere or setting. 

  • HokibukisaHokibukisa Midland, GAPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by vonbose0

    MJ keeps mentioning housing. I left daoc before they added housing, so my question really is does housing promote social interaction, or rvr? Also does anyone really care? My guild had a house in UO, but it didn't really promote gameplay other than it was a storage closet and the idea of a universal bank in a game world seems forced and silly; where are they really storing everyone's stuff?

    i would prefer housing that was more like a guild hall located within an existing city that is full of people.

    No it doesn't promote either, at least it didn't in daoc. In fact it pretty much KO'd the crafting community.

    I hope if anything gets deprived attention and resources that it be housing. I too believe that guild halls would be a MUCH better idea than daoc style of housing where there are literally hundreds of houses and guild houses sprawling multiple zones.

    In fact I might even prefer it if there were a limited amount of guild houses so that the might actually mean something. Have the guilds and alliances compete through RvR and crafting for the best real estate.

    Also when you are fkn around in your private instance house you aren't being social in a public area of the game.. I honestly hope it gets cut till they figure out what to do with it.

    image

  • KvalandurKvalandur Shreveport, LAPosts: 31Member
    As long as its not instanced housing! Instancing is what kills immersion IMO. I like housing when it's done right it can be really fun. It's cool to have a place to keep trophy s and show people what you've done.
  • Monamia222Monamia222 pineville, LAPosts: 53Member
    This game is RvR only,  almost no pve at all, and you guys are talking about crafting and housing?  How is that going to work?

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  • RaagnarzRaagnarz North Las Vegas, NVPosts: 269Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by vonbose0

    MJ keeps mentioning housing. I left daoc before they added housing, so my question really is does housing promote social interaction, or rvr? Also does anyone really care? My guild had a house in UO, but it didn't really promote gameplay other than it was a storage closet and the idea of a universal bank in a game world seems forced and silly; where are they really storing everyone's stuff?

    i would prefer housing that was more like a guild hall located within an existing city that is full of people.

    Is this Vonbose from MLF back in daoc lol?

     

    Housing without a doubt will add to rvr and social interaction. On the RVR end housing/keep building or whatever you want to call it will be able to be done int he RVR zones. By building out there you'll be at greater risk of having it destroyed, but there will be bonuses for building out there as well. Imagine your guild building up a huge keep to constantly defend. Keeping it built, defended, and controlled in turn speeds a constant supply of crafting resopurces to you of a specific type. Now other guilds from the other 2 realms want it and you have a reason to fight over it. Housing in the safe zone cities or whatever will offer no benfit but be protected. However maybe that is where the vast majority of crafters set up shops. Since there will be no auction house you'll have to actually engage crafters, maybe in their houses.

  • StilerStiler Athens, TNPosts: 599Member

    Think for example, if  there are not safe area's, a la frontiers or anything, but rather the battlelines of war can be anywhere on the map.

     

    Where you build your community, where you build a keep, the other realms can eventually take that land over, ranksack houses, keeps, etc.

     

    Now imagine if there's no bank storage or any "safety" net, wher eguilds build a big keep and have to actually protect all of their belongings , if antoher realm can lay siege to that keep, take it over, and it becomes theirs and they reap al the items that lie within that keep.  They could even raze the keep, knock it down, just so no one can keep it, or they can (if they have funds) choose to repair and rebuild that keep, making their own and setting up their base there.

    That would provide both reasons to fight and defend. Then if you do lose your keep and the entire community that lived there are displaced and have to find somewhere else to build a new town, eventually mustering up their army and equipment to try and take back what was once theirs.

     

    To me that is FAR more engaging and fun then your usual "static" landscapes in mmo's. Especially newer mmo's like Guild Wars 2 and pvp with thier pre-designed npc-controlle dkeeps that you never felt attached to, where you'd login, one realm woould have it, then another, and vice versa., just constnatly changing hands and getitng repeitive over and over..

    Allowing people to actually build these, with other people, guilds, houses, communties will spring up around these and it gives more meaning, benefits social interaction, among other things that makes the point of fighting that much more then some generic pre designed keep that you or no one else even controls or owns.

  • NegativeJoeNegativeJoe hluboka nad vltavouPosts: 177Member Common

    SWG had one thing not many (any?) games since had. a crapload of girls and housewives who played religiously and never killed a thing.

    housing was a big part of that(as was entertainers early on). not only could guilds build their own cities, but a group of 3-4-5 friends could make a pretty awesome little town with a couple houses, harvesters, stores whatever.

    in fact its the last game my old lady played religiously, she'd spend hours on her 'botique' making clothes, decorating it just so.
    people would stop in and browse, hire her out for clothes for weddings or whatever on occasion. without the player merchants and housing to display them, that really wouldn't have happened.
    in most games today its, yeah pick tailor..grind to 500 in a few days, make mage armor and inventory bags, put them on AH, go kill stuff.

    ::::26:: ::::26:: ::::26::

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by NegativeJoe
    SWG had one thing not many (any?) games since had. a crapload of girls and housewives who played religiously and never killed a thing. housing was a big part of that(as was entertainers early on). not only could guilds build their own cities, but a group of 3-4-5 friends could make a pretty awesome little town with a couple houses, harvesters, stores whatever. in fact its the last game my old lady played religiously, she'd spend hours on her 'botique' making clothes, decorating it just so.
    people would stop in and browse, hire her out for clothes for weddings or whatever on occasion. without the player merchants and housing to display them, that really wouldn't have happened.
    in most games today its, yeah pick tailor..grind to 500 in a few days, make mage armor and inventory bags, put them on AH, go kill stuff.

    Brings a tear to my eye. An MMO that we lived in, not played in.

  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member
    Originally posted by Satarious

    Personally, I think housing should ONLY be implemented in Keeps.

    in or AROUND keeps. just like the middle ages.

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon
    They seem so hellbent on not having PvE content in the game, it seems very odd to have housing and crafting.  PvPers don't strike me as the types to embrace this in a PvP only game.

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  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by vonbose0

    My guild had a house in UO, but it didn't really promote gameplay

    Your guild did it wrong.

  • HokibukisaHokibukisa Midland, GAPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by Galadourn
    Originally posted by Satarious

    Personally, I think housing should ONLY be implemented in Keeps.

    in or AROUND keeps. just like the middle ages.

    They'll get burned down on the daily.

    image

  • EaderbrecaEaderbreca MMORPG.com Streamer LPosts: 44Member
    If I remember right, there will be safer areas for houses, and even more contested areas. There your house will be burnt down non-stop. But it's been confirmed they'd not take time nor much resource to build up so it's not anything frustrating.

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  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member
    Originally posted by Hokibukisa
    Originally posted by Galadourn
    Originally posted by Satarious

    Personally, I think housing should ONLY be implemented in Keeps.

    in or AROUND keeps. just like the middle ages.

    They'll get burned down on the daily.

    the keep doesn't necessarily have to be in the frontier, it could be a keep in the safer areas.

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