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Why in my opinion people should fund the project

ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.1481, NJPosts: 6,690Member

Well first of all let me say by no means am I  going to be calling Camelot Unchained the end all and be all of mmos. I am pretty positive not everyone is going to like this game and that might be a good thing. Just go back and look at all the pve oriented “made for the masses” mmos out there and tell me which ones have really been successful since vanilla WoW.  I know you’re brain is starting to hurt right now because you really can’t think of one.  I am sure some would make an argument for 1 or 2 out there but for the most part they all have pretty much been a disaster or a big disappointment in one way or another.   

Part of the problem with mmos today is that mmos are going mainstream. Developers are dumbing down their game just so they can sell more retail or downloadable sales, which actually hurts the quality of the game. The other problem is that today publishers have just way too much say on how development  for mmos should be run. They think they need to rush games out just to meet those quarterly earnings causing unpolished mmo experiences.

Well this is where City State Entertainment defies all the red tape that comes with making mmos. They have no publisher and it is highly unlikely we will see one. They are making their own game. They answer to no one but themselves which is a huge plus.  They aren’t looking to please the masses with this game. It will be a niche game for those who love RVR. Finally a game that doesn’t get dumbed down just for the sake of sales. That certainly makes me feel a lot better about the mmo genre as a whole.

So when you go and decide you want to back Camelot Unchained through Kickstarter you are not only going to help shape the RVR game you want, you are actually changing the way how mmos work. To think we don’t have to listen to all those big name publishers anymore and just make the game we want to play. That actually gets my game face on. It gets me excited about mmos again.  To think I can actually make a difference in the mmo world.

 Personally I am sick of pre-ordering big name overhyped mmos just to be disappointed. I can’t imagine how much money we all have spent on failed mmos  over the years and wish we could have our money back. It has been this way for many years since vanilla WoW. Pretty much tired of tossing my money away just so they can dumb down games for more profit. City State Entertainment gets me exited about mmos again. I wish more inde developers would go this route. The mmo world would be a much better place. 

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Comments

  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member
    Sorry not going to found a RvR only game calling itself a MMO. Pretty sure it is just going to be like WvWvW in GW2. Have read anything to say it will be otherwise.
  • HeartsparkHeartspark Southland, MOPosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by Thorbrand
    Sorry not going to found a RvR only game calling itself a MMO. Pretty sure it is just going to be like WvWvW in GW2. Have read anything to say it will be otherwise.

     

    You would be incorrect. If its just half of what daoc rvr was like it is still 100x better than what Gw2 had.   In fact its not even fair to compare the two at all.   I suggest you look up videos of RvR in action to understand.

    Heartspark: Animist rr12, bors, Lone Enforcer, Retired

    Dranzerk: Berzerker (kay) retired
    Dhei: Spiritmaster (Kay) retired
    Goblinking : Hunter (Kay) retired
    Moongoose: Shadowblade (Kay) retired

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon

     Well OP you have your opnion I have mine. I played DAoC right up till the ToA ruined it. (IMO)

    the fact that the same guy that ruined DAoC with ToA is behind CU does not ispire me to found a

    RVR only game.

  • LanceCLanceC Boston, MAPosts: 55Member
    Just a game to blatenly take advantage of the DAoC crowd looking to relive the best gaming experience of their childhood. Like EQnext is to EQ. Honestly though, even coming from someone unbiased, who didn't play DAoC ... It doesn't look like anything grand nor does it have any ground breaking ideas that will enrich the genre.
  • Lore84Lore84 NorthamptonPosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by Thorbrand
    Sorry not going to found a RvR only game calling itself a MMO. Pretty sure it is just going to be like WvWvW in GW2. Have read anything to say it will be otherwise.

    Thorbrand, you just could not be more wrong. I realize that this game isn't supposed to be DAOC2, but if there will be any of DAOC's spirit in this game then the RVR experience will not even be compareable to GW2.

    GW2 RvR is absolutely pants compared to DAOC's, it is just not even comparable in the slightest. If this game does turn out to be anything like GW2's system is will be a severe dissapointment.

    Ex-DAOC, Excalibur

  • syntax42syntax42 Columbus, OHPosts: 1,305Member Uncommon
    I played DAOC for the PvE, mostly.  RvR was fun before it turned into elitist 8-man groups who excluded me because of my realm rank.  If CU doesn't have a good PvE game, I won't be interested in playing it.
  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,830Member Uncommon

    I know that I am in the minority, but I will never throw money in a kickstarter. I don't like that a group of people can beg for money when they have no one to be accountable to. Why do they have to stick to their word when they are not accountable to a board of director's of some reputable gaming company. They can take our money and do whatever they want with it. I am a trusting person, but not that trusting.

    I may have the process all wrong, but these are my thoughts on it.

     

  • cybertruckercybertrucker Pensacola, FLPosts: 1,119Member
    Waiting for EQNEXT  so dont see myself paying a kickstarter for this.. Now I will be trying out Neverwinter because i enjoy 4th edition DND>
  • AnthurAnthur StolbergPosts: 686Member Uncommon
    I agree that new ideas should be supported. But where is the innvoation in making a DAoC2 without PvE ?
  • cybertruckercybertrucker Pensacola, FLPosts: 1,119Member
    Originally posted by Anthur
    I agree that new ideas should be supported. But where is the innvoation in making a DAoC2 without PvE ?

    Yep i think its a pretty stupid idea myself...Works in a game like Planetside 2.. but in a fantasy MMO?? Umm no.. I like PVE. DAoC had some great PVE.. somewhere between that and WAR they lost their way..Now they have just gone off the deep end.

  • Storm_FirebladeStorm_Fireblade FlensburgPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by Anthur
    I agree that new ideas should be supported. But where is the innvoation in making a DAoC2 without PvE ?

    Guys, seriously. How hard is it to understand, that Camelot Unchained IS NOT DAoC 2? Three factions fighting each other isn´t something DAoC invented nor trademarked and the Camelot IP is open to the public.

    I know, its Mark Jacobs - there are three factions - the story is about Camelot...That has to be DAoC 2. Still - No! Not every game with three factions has something to do with DAoC. Not every game with Camelot as IP has something to do with DAoC.

    DAoC without PvE? Yeah, that might be stupid. But this is a new game with new mechanics and a new focus. If you dislike the idea? Fine. Disliking the idea, because you think its a DAoC 2 without PvE is plain wrong though.

    Camelot Unchained Fanpage
    https://simply-gaming.com/camelot/

  • General_Dru-ZodGeneral_Dru-Zod Unknown, CAPosts: 136Member
    Originally posted by syntax42
    I played DAOC for the PvE, mostly.  RvR was fun before it turned into elitist 8-man groups who excluded me because of my realm rank.  If CU doesn't have a good PvE game, I won't be interested in playing it.

    *Shocked*

    Zod is curious, do you also goto Hooters for the wings?

    image

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 473Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cybertrucker
    Originally posted by Anthur
    I agree that new ideas should be supported. But where is the innvoation in making a DAoC2 without PvE ?

    Yep i think its a pretty stupid idea myself...Works in a game like Planetside 2.. but in a fantasy MMO?? Umm no.. I like PVE. DAoC had some great PVE.. somewhere between that and WAR they lost their way..Now they have just gone off the deep end.

    It certainly might be, only time will tell if you are right. Now, I heard the same thing with my first online games, GEnie, AOL, Dark Age of Camelot, etc. I'm not always right but I'm willing, once again, to put my name and money into the game.

    As to the PvE, yeah, we did have some interesting quests but as a designer, I'm not sure how PvE has to evolve to succeed in today's market. Every "AAA" MMORPG that has launched since WoW that has used PvE as its focus has had serious financial issues post launch. Some, like Rift, WAR, AoC, etc. did quite well at first but then the predictable pattern of layoffs, drop in subs, etc. happened.  Nobody made better story telling games than BioWare, but SWToR too lost subs and is now FTP. I wish I knew the answer how to make a PvE game long-lasting, tasty, challenging, etc. without keeping large teams churning out expensive content to keep the PvE players happy.

    In terms of fantasy versus SF, well, I think fantasy is actually a better fit for RvR than you might think. Magic, gods, individual crafting of items, mythical creatures, races, etc. make fantasy the perfect fit IMO. Even the weapons (swords vs. longer range guns) lends itself to close combat and a different feel to small squad battles and tactics. Is it perfect? Nope but in truth I believe that it is a great fit for RvR but as always, your mileage may vary, :)

    I do hope that as a former Dark Age of Camelot player you will at least consider CU down the road if the Kickstarter funds. We are trying to break out of the rut that most (not all)  MMORPGs have fallen into by starting small and building from there. If not, I do thank you for being a former player of Dark Age.

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • TadderTadder Naples, FLPosts: 38Member

    I agree with the OP. Video games have become like Hollywood. Put Halle Berry and Harrison Ford in a movie with a good trailer and you'll get 120 million box office even if the movie is about hipster vampires in Alaska fighting an invasion of space pandas. Like movies, major video games have become more of an investment than an art. Not that  it's wrong per se. Major movie investments or MMOs can be fun. LOTR was awesome, WOW was great for a few years. But, things get left out of the AAA formula. SCi-Fi movie fans have to wait for Star Trek, Star Wars, or some other major brand to come out, but where is Ender's Game or the Foundation Series? Likewise, sandbox RvR games are left out of the MMO equation because the investment is less proven.

    Look at Star Citizen (raised 8+ million.) They are saying "Let's put PC space sims back on the radar." Same thing that the OP is saying here, and 8 million dollars in funding lends some validity to the concept. I see that as just one reason though. The other is I personally just want to enjoy a game for longer than 2 months. Havent since vanilla WoW, which capped off perhaps 5 years of MMO enjoyment for me.  I fall well into the niche that CU is going for, others don't.

    The strawman attacks also seem a bit blown out of proportion. Jacobs is not EA, and his record is probably closer to most of the major MMO studios. To my knowledge, the only MMO studio  that is batting 100% is (in my view) Blizzard (and they've done 1), if you don't count D3. All the other studios can be knocked to some degree, or have no MMO experience.

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    I am interested in this, as I still hold DAoC as the best RvR game, but I also like to play all aspects of a mmo, harvesting/crafting, pve, pvp/rvr....  So I am worried about staying invested without it, but like it has been said, you don't know, until you try it.

     

    Themeparks have been having problems with content being ate up, but content that is more in the style of a sandbox seem to be more lasting.  Quest hubs and rails, people ride them like a bullet train to the end.

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member
    Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod
    Originally posted by syntax42
    I played DAOC for the PvE, mostly.  RvR was fun before it turned into elitist 8-man groups who excluded me because of my realm rank.  If CU doesn't have a good PvE game, I won't be interested in playing it.

    *Shocked*

    Zod is curious, do you also goto Hooters for the wings?

    Been a long time since I have been to hooters, but they did have a really good chicken sandwich!

  • cybertruckercybertrucker Pensacola, FLPosts: 1,119Member
    The problem is pvp and  PVE have been kept separate from each other.. AION touched upon this . If a developer would expand on what they did there and truly bring the PVE factions into the wars. It would up the level of intensity.  I wrote up an idea in the Everquest next forum here on this site called FVF.  Players want more options not  less. 
  • ikarrianikarrian SPosts: 122Member
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by cybertrucker
    Originally posted by Anthur
    I agree that new ideas should be supported. But where is the innvoation in making a DAoC2 without PvE ?

    Yep i think its a pretty stupid idea myself...Works in a game like Planetside 2.. but in a fantasy MMO?? Umm no.. I like PVE. DAoC had some great PVE.. somewhere between that and WAR they lost their way..Now they have just gone off the deep end.

    It certainly might be, only time will tell if you are right. Now, I heard the same thing with my first online games, GEnie, AOL, Dark Age of Camelot, etc. I'm not always right but I'm willing, once again, to put my name and money into the game.

    As to the PvE, yeah, we did have some interesting quests but as a designer, I'm not sure how PvE has to evolve to succeed in today's market. Every "AAA" MMORPG that has launched since WoW that has used PvE as its focus has had serious financial issues post launch. Some, like Rift, WAR, AoC, etc. did quite well at first but then the predictable pattern of layoffs, drop in subs, etc. happened.  Nobody made better story telling games than BioWare, but SWToR too lost subs and is now FTP. I wish I knew the answer how to make a PvE game long-lasting, tasty, challenging, etc. without keeping large teams churning out expensive content to keep the PvE players happy.

    In terms of fantasy versus SF, well, I think fantasy is actually a better fit for RvR than you might think. Magic, gods, individual crafting of items, mythical creatures, races, etc. make fantasy the perfect fit IMO. Even the weapons (swords vs. longer range guns) lends itself to close combat and a different feel to small squad battles and tactics. Is it perfect? Nope but in truth I believe that it is a great fit for RvR but as always, your mileage may vary, :)

    I do hope that as a former Dark Age of Camelot player you will at least consider CU down the road if the Kickstarter funds. We are trying to break out of the rut that most (not all)  MMORPGs have fallen into by starting small and building from there. If not, I do thank you for being a former player of Dark Age.

    You guys need to go back and look at UO / Asheron's Call PvE. I played UO from the start in -97 and i stopped playing it after 8 years off and on, With open dungeons and most of all: higher learning curves and tougher content. Lack of PvE is because its too damn easy. (Not talking about the big 20-man raids etc) Who ever discovered big instanced raids needs to be shot, IMO. And the replay value is also shite.

    Just to keep it short.

    Edit: Also FFXI online. A game who still live and got a healthy player base. And there is no PvP worth mentioning. So how is that possible?

    Remember: Alot of the gamers these days are in the ~30-ish. We dont want to be spoon-fed with the shit like the kids.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    For me this is about trying to make a difference. No more will I toss money at overhyped big publisher mmos. The majority has been pretty much fail and quite honestly I would rather roll the dice and give an inde dev a shot. Things have to change in the mmo world and here is an opportunity to make things happen the right way.
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  • ScillyScilly penzancePosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by syntax42
    I played DAOC for the PvE, mostly.  RvR was fun before it turned into elitist 8-man groups who excluded me because of my realm rank.  If CU doesn't have a good PvE game, I won't be interested in playing it.

    im guessing you came to daoc in the late stages of the game, this is why MJ is not trying to market CU as the next DAOC because what happened 4 years after release was not as he intended and as you would expect from a long running RVR foccoused game.

     

    Edit; I mean alot of people put there heart and sole into daoc, they lived it, breathed it, died outside of it. DAOC had a community that held funerals for there loved players within the game, people knew them, all be it via killing them or playing along side them. DAOC is the only mmo in history that has bred such a community, and such a want for more. If you were unlucky enough not to experiance that im sorry for you because daoc in its prime was the best communtiy ever...

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon

    If there's anybody who can make an RvR game that comes close to what DAOC used to be, it's the people who designed DAOC in the first place. That's why I'm following TESO and CU with interest.

    The problem with TESO based on what I read on their own web site is that it will be another game where RvRers will have to do PvE raids to stay competitive in RvR. I'm sick to death of that. Now it is possible that TESO's RvR will neverthless be so much fun that I'll be willing to raid in it. But I highly doubt it. More than likely it will be another WAR or GW 2 where RvR fans give it a shot and give up on it after a couple of months.

    That's why I'm more than likely going to back CU's kickstarter. It's the kind of RvR game I want to play: one that doesn't require me to go on 40 main raids or grind instanced dungeons before I can RvR. Mark and co. could certainly get RvR wrong (again). They wouldn't be the first or the last. But I'm prepared to forgive and forget his past missteps in the hopes that he can make a new RvR game that will be fun for years. And if he fails again, who else will ever do better? At that point, we'll either need to settle for the kind of keep-swapping, PvE-in-order-to-RvR games the industry churns out or just give up on the whole concept of RvR.

    I completely respect why others would be hesitant to put their money into a game like CU that is basically only a bunch of foundational statements at this point (but I'm sure Mark and crew have been hard at work behind the scenes designing how the game will play in detail so they can get right to work when/if the kickstarter succeeds). I can afford financially to take a chance on it. I expect that the kickstarter rewards will make it a good financial deal for anybody who would end up buying the game and subscribing for months anyway. YMMV.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • ScillyScilly penzancePosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by meddyck

    If there's anybody who can make an RvR game that comes close to what DAOC used to be, it's the people who designed DAOC in the first place. That's why I'm following TESO and CU with interest.

    The problem with TESO based on what I read on their own web site is that it will be another game where RvRers will have to do PvE raids to stay competitive in RvR. I'm sick to death of that. Now it is possible that TESO's RvR will neverthless be so much fun that I'll be willing to raid in it. But I highly doubt it. More than likely it will be another WAR or GW 2 where RvR fans give it a shot and give up on it after a couple of months.

    That's why I'm more than likely going to back CU's kickstarter. It's the kind of RvR game I want to play: one that doesn't require me to go on 40 main raids or grind instanced dungeons before I can RvR. Mark and co. could certainly get RvR wrong (again). They wouldn't be the first or the last. But I'm prepared to forgive and forget his past missteps in the hopes that he can make a new RvR game that will be fun for years. And if he fails again, who else will ever do better? At that point, we'll either need to settle for the kind of keep-swapping, PvE-in-order-to-RvR games the industry churns out or just give up on the whole concept of RvR.

    I completely respect why others would be hesitant to put their money into a game like CU that is basically only a bunch of foundational statements at this point (but I'm sure Mark and crew have been hard at work behind the scenes designing how the game will play in detail so they can get right to work when/if the kickstarter succeeds). I can afford financially to take a chance on it. I expect that the kickstarter rewards will make it a good financial deal for anybody who would end up buying the game and subscribing for months anyway. YMMV.

    im guessing MJ knows this and thats why he has chosen now to come out with this idea.

  • nationalcitynationalcity Decatur, MIPosts: 330Member Uncommon

    I'm not going to fund the game because its strictly RVR no more no less....

     

    I'm not interested in an RVR centric game....... I loved DAOC but when he said no PVE that clinched it for me..........

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nationalcity

    I'm not going to fund the game because its strictly RVR no more no less....

     

    I'm not interested in an RVR centric game....... I loved DAOC but when he said no PVE that clinched it for me..........

    There are plenty of PvE games out there for you. Nobody has to like every game. Mark is making CU to appeal to a certain type of player (like me) who isn't being well served by the MMO industry. He gets that there is a big pool of WOW and clones players who won't find CU appealing. You're not his target audience.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

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