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Edit: This post is extremely out of date and really only examined the phenomenon known as Mourning rather superficially. For all updated information, I recommend taking a look at the last 20 pages.
They deleted all of the forums, so my old source was gone. However, I am now building the forum around reason why mourning is a menace. Edit: Mourning Mods are deleting posts instead of moving them, anything they see on this topic, they will delete.
1st: Scaming people out of preorders.
There funds were runing low, so they are charged pre-orders. Again, they promised not to charge until the game shipped, but are now charging for game with a mystery release date. Mourning is even charging people that canceled a few weeks ago. Lets remember- this came without any warning what so ever.
And they wonder why people though it was a scam.
However, CDs(if we can call them that) shipped and arrived at homes. However, fanbois soon found that they recieved a CD-RW CD with a white Box. On the CD was a old beta client, and thats they final shipping product. Servers are still screwed. Thats it. And they were still under NDA.
Then, preorder's find out they got a 40 percent discount all right. Normal folks pay 20 dollars, and they had to pay 30 dollars. So they got a 40 percent rip off. This was a vicious plan by the publisher/devs.
So they got charaged 2 weeks early(30 dollars) for a CD-RW CD with the promise of a discount, and the normal folks paid 20 dollars.
Lets recap, They paid all the extra money and the agreement was broken THREE, let's say that again, THREE times since then!
a) Billed Early
b) Shipped a "less then desireable product"
c) Apparently NOT given their discount since they dont want the however many free months.
Original Pre-Order price = $29.95
Original Pre-Order discount from release price = 40%
NEW Release Price = $19.95
NEW price if 40% discount = $11.97
Monthly subscription price = $8.95
Now, according to THIS math, instead of getting a 40% DISCOUNT, I paid roughly 50% MORE than people getting the game when it releases.
Some Nice Cds you got there.....I want a collector's item TOO!!!!!
2nd: Quote by the producers of the game.
Quote Fun Time- Quote's from the producers:
Quote: "And yes, you will pay to play a game that still should be in an alpha/beta stage. It should never get to this but this was our limit of competence"...Egomancer
So even they admit your going to play for a poor beta stage game for your 9 dollars a month.
Quote: "Deleting three years of posts, sounds like Dave to me.... People run from this game now.....Nattydread, Moderator
That's now two mods to see the light. It's probably not a good sign when one of the forum moderators on your official game site tells the public to "run from the game" and then stickies it to the top of the forum. Yikes. That can't be good for business. I also imagine he won't be working there too much longer either... (And yes, Natty soon did leave the Mourning Board)
Quote: "It may not be the best game on the market but it is decent"..Egomancer, lead producer.
I just love buying what the leader of the game calls "decent"!
Quote: "we decided to offer this 19.95$ price for the serial because the users that preodered complained that the game does not worth a full 40$-50$ price. So we made it. Now the same people are complaining that we dropped the prices. Note that the people that preordered are the only ones that have the game CD. Consder it a collecion object. And please decide what do you want? Full price or not"....Egomancer
Thats cute. I have always wanted a collectors item, but a CD-RW mourning cd isn't what I had in mind.
Quote: " Server is back up! Enjoy.
P.S. We are going home...so pray to lord that it does ot crash... Egomancer"
Thats really cool. I see your working this as a full time job, leaving servers to crash and then saying, Im going home.
Quote: " Greetings,
If you placed more than one order seperately or reordered having forgotten about a previously placed order than that may also be the cause.
In any case; we do not have the authority to give refunds on orders. You will have to contact your bank about the issue if you so choose.
Tim is some sort of billing scammer. This is the email send to preorders look for a refund. For some reason, the billing company doesn't have tha "authority" to give refunds.
Quote: "So move along.. I would show you some of my positive contributions, but some coward not only banned me but also deleted over 1700 posts. Have you noticed that the supporters of the game, minus a few long term stalwarts are all relatively new? Because the people that joined the game at the beginning, loved the concepts, and the interaction with the developers, have for the most part moved on. No disrespect to several that are still there, I have had many a good chat with them... " NattyDread, Mod
Wow. Lets ban our own mods, delete their forum names and most of their posts. Good job Dave, major props.
Quote: Question- What makes mourning unique?
"Nothing, atm...Kilguren, Moderator"- Before the Edit.
I love a game that produces bugs and unethical practices, but nothing unique too- nice...
Wow, Fanboys wanted to get on mourning so badly they signed their soul to him.
Quote: Did you post the IP Address of Grunch?
"Yes, I did and I will do each time is necessary. And we showed him that we can trace him and will sue him for this......tiamat, Admin and Lead Dev"
That man loves his legal threats. We all know about the somethingawful blast but in this he is admiting to post Ips of personal enemies to hack. This member of his OWN board.
3rd: Random forum deletation
Dave, according to Natty, deleted the Mourning forums, erased 3 years of evidence. The only legit reason behind this is to censor people. All those past "problems" are gone. They are now deleteing anything that has anything to do with this topic now.
4th: Worst Lanuch and pre-billing
This game was billing people before the game shipped, rather randomly and without notice. When the lanuch happened, the servers were down 4/5 percent of the time and there are more bugs then a beta.
5th: Reviews by players.
First review on this game: Given a 2/10 by the reviewer.
6th: MMORPG.com says bye to Mourning.
Kicked off the biggest mmorpg site on the net for unbusiness like conduct. Yep, only game ever to achieve this greatness. Dan it seems wanted information to ban people that were flaming mourning on the mmorpg board.
In one occasion, the user "bugman" at mmorpg.com made a comment saying the Mourning were "scammers". Immedietaly, Dave amd Egomancer requested bugman's information from mmorpg.com to sue him. Of course, in America you can't sue like this for "slander", but they felt that without a warrant, Mourning felt it could take people's info. Of Course, mmorpg.com refuses and mourning sent them threaten emails. Mourning has since been removed from mmorpg.com.
7th: Mourning Threats aganist Something Awful.com
Mourning threats to sue people for saying "bad things" againist there game. Somethingawful.com got legal threats from these clowns.
Read it here:
8th: Banning is a sometimes Food?
Seems like Mourning Mods/Publisher love the banning button. In fact, they had serveral section DEDICATED to it. This included "Im a Jackass, I have been banned", where dave brags about his bans of hte week. I have seen more random bans on there then any other board, although it is not as bad as late. However, they still banned Sombra, bitey and Xe0n for nothing at all. They spoke there minds and were banned. The censorship is funny to. You can't say some works like somethingawful, fraud, scam, among others(filter kills it). They are deeply afraid of somethingawful.com. They have a totally inept community manager who not just insulted their playerbase repeatedly but who also used shady tactics such as publishing user IPs of banned forum users or making up completely idiotic forum rules. It has gotten worse of late, threads just disappear without a trace(even though in the rules, they claim they will move them, not delete them), if anything at all is said that is negative.
9th: The Blame game
Nobody on the company takes blame for anything. They will blame it on "that billing company" or " that guy thats around the office sometimes". So when the game is released in pre-beta, it is blamed on the publisher, when the scame billing happend its "that billing company" and mods blame "Dave" on everything. What is so hard to understand about this?? A billing company doesn't just randomly bill people for no reason, only order's from the top. IF the billing company did charage early, that is a break of contract, and Mourning would ever right to sue them. But everyone knows the pre-order scandal is a vicious plan. When something goes wrong in a company, it isn't "billing" or "some guy"- it is the CEO. He is responsible for any faults or fraud like activities. However, Horizons doesn't feel it has responiblity to anyone.
10th: This isn't a MMO, Small Pop/Server can't handle even SB's population
Nope, its more like a VERY smally ORPG. There is nothing massive about this game, you will be lucky to see another person on your "journey" threw the land of bugs. The max report has been as much as 30 ppl online at once, and the servers get unstable then. IF servers ever get to 50-90 ppl online(still Very small), they would crash quick. Most that play say normally there are about 10 ppl online, and the server is down roughly 1/2 to 1/3 percent of the time.
This isnt the end of it however. They have discovered a massive design flaw in code, that will cause freezes, and massive lag. It cannot be fixed however, because it is a core mechanism that should have been implemented very early in devlopment. Now, even if the population goes up, the servers condition will not allow for it.
11th: This game is nothing but broken promises
Well, sometimes if a game is very good, I'll put up with bad PRs(although mourning has alot more than that). But the game Mourning is a horrid beta/alpha, unstable server and full of bugs. The combat system is supposed to be "Click Fight, and then get a pizza". Magic System was only done recently, and is supposed to be crap. However, fanbois will always be there to tell me "great ideas and different". Very few of these "great ideas" were even put in, and those that are a faliure. In then end, you have a common mmorpg that is a super bug. I can promise a different game with new ideas, doesn't mean I have to put them in my game, or that they are true.
Can you have kids?
Can you build house?
No, and if I remember this will not be a feature of Mourning, instead guild can take control of towns.
Can you have mounts?
Yes, but only static routes like in DAoC (Town to Town route)
Does the PvP work?
Is there any content?
Very Little, but there are some quests. Mostly Fed-Ex and Hunt Kill.
Is the guild management any good?
Very simple system at this time, but the system described in the FAQ is quite different.
Nothing new and innovative at this time, but the features promised in the FAQ are awesome.
A mod claimed when asked about something different than other mmorpgs that mourning has, he answer "Nothing at the moment" and other fanboys claimed "No dev communication".
Want to see a video of the l33t PvP that was going to revolutionize the world?
12th: Constant problems with billing system.
Double charages, unable to get refunds, and just all around horrible billing. Although they switched, CCBill( a porn billing company), is giving problems to. Many have contacted the AG about the company's billing system. Whether it really is the billing company or just another mourning scam is yet to be seen.
A second large case of this is with JuileBlue. Although she canceled her "Mourning Game" before the release, she has been charage 3 TIMES for a product she neither recieved or wanted.
13th: You encourage other companies to do the same
Fine, you ignored your waste of money for a bad game and corrupt company. But do you want to go through this process again in future games?
Everytime you send money to Mourning, you encourage other devlopers to go "Hey, look the mmorpg market is stupid! Mourning put out a beta on a CD-RW Disc, and are making money. Nobody will sue them because it's only 30 dollars.... Why don't I do the same!" It will encourage the further degrading of mmorpg standards if you let things like this fly.
14th: Devs of Mourning Flame other games.
The folks at mourning have the guts to flame other game(Dark and Light) and tell the fans of Dark and Light, that there game is "vaporware". Now, have you ever seen a professional gaming company say such nasty things just to kill another game?
15th: Unprofessional Dev Team and Publisher
I think that the "spring ban feast" illustrated this quite well. In this case, Dave(the publisher) went on a banning streak, and in doing so he was cussing and acting nasty. People that spoke out would recieve bans, and also have there IP posted for people to "mess" with. So in all, Dan encouraged people to "hack" his enemies. Just remember, everytime you give a dime to mourning, this nasty person will be sucking it all up. Even though they *tried* to delete all the eviedence Harelin, copied this down. In the chat log "cothyso" and on the forum "tiamat" is dan.
Dave(publisher) was also known for having tons of accounts. He used alts to push his agenda. Dave, admin, admini, queen of the damned, where known Dave alts.
They have been also know to come and threaten staffs of sites. PKer.org, mmorpg.com, somethingawful has all been threatened by mourning. They come to boards to flame, and then threaten legal actions.
As soon as you sign up for Mourning forum, they will start sending you lots of "newsletters". If you try to unsign from the newsletter, the server will bounce a error message. Pretty spam like qualities to me. Look further in this thread, more and more people can't stop getting spam from these clowns.
17th: Stratics droped Mourning
Stratics used to have a mini-site on mourning, but this has disappeared as well. Now Stratics are with all the other respectable companies trying to escape from the disaster that is mourning.
18th: Warcry says "bye" to Mourning
Looks like in addiation to MMORPG.com, Stratics, and other pk-based sites, Mourning has been kicked off. Due to Mourning's horrid PR skills, Warcry annonced that " Mourning WarCry will no longer be updated. It will remain in its current state as an information source for the time being. Thank you for your dedication to WarCry and Mourning! "
19th: More Reviews
The biggest site review site on the net has several user reviews and rating for Mourning. The overall rating is 3.4 out of 10. The big review by user Paul K is a 1 out of 10 and claims "This is without doubt the Worst MMORPG ever."
Two mmorpg.com users and longtime mourning fan reviews-
20th: Two Mods leave Mourning
After having problems with the morality of the publisher, two mods have left mourning. One of the them, nattydread, was banned from mourning after he spoke out againist Dave's unethical tatics. The other post this- http://plaguelands.com/?p=42 on the board. It takes how the publisher is quote "biggest jerk in the world". And it is coming true, the game is failing and mods with any sence of morality saw this coming and left. Later, Egomancer and crew deleted Natty's account because he made that comment about the game. In the end, are you going to trust two mods close to the game or some ranting fanboy?
21th: Do the Devs even care?
Lets see, the servers are down almost 2/3s of the time, and yet nobody is in the office to fix the servers. Kinda hard to play a mmorpg when the servers are down almost every US playtime. Dan has promised about 10 times that shifts will happen, and people will be there overnight- yet it doesn't happen. More broken promises, and fast talk and no resutlt. There are no GMs in-game most of the time. Egomancer recently said that devs are business with college exams, instead of making the severs stable. I'm starting to think this was some sort of college kid part-time project.
Originally posted by Sinsa
Do you guys feel that this game is your baby, your life, your passion? Do you guys want this game to succeed? Do you love this game?
At this particular moment in time it seems to me that the answers to these questions are a resounding NO!
There are no devs on call 24 hours a day. There is obviously no one at the office for seemingly more than 2/3's of the day. You do not seem to care if the servers are up. You do not seem to care if your customers get to play.
please prove me wrong but at this time I see that not one of you seems to care whether this game makes it or not.
I beg of you to prove me wrong.
Wanna know how to prove me wrong?
First thing would be to create a fully functional account management system. one with a cancel button, and a reactivate button.
Second thing get someone in the office to keep the servers up 24/7
Third get some mods/GM's that are actually online more than an hour at a time.
There are others but this just tires me out.
This the question.
DO YOU LOVE THIS WORLD YOU ARE BUILDING?
If so then act like it.
If you feel like flaming me so beit, but remember i am jsut as big a fanboi as the rest.
Staff if you feel like deleting this or moving this to the contenless section then do so. but be aware that doing such will answer the question I posed to you witha resounding "No, we dont care about it at all"
Yes, I feel jaded. Yes, I feel betrayed. Yes, I feel let down. And yes, I am still here.
Please, I implore you to take a better stance on how to run this game.
PS I have beta'd countless MMORPG's many of which I dont remember at all but, one thing that they ALL had in common with eachother is that they all showed more dedication towards thier love"the game they are building" then I have seen here in the few weeks I have participated.
Originally posted by Sinsa
Ok So we get Ego making a snmall comment about where he has been and we got Tiamat responding fully to the question at hand but so far it seems it seems as if Tiamat has replied with broken promises. The servers went down yesterday around i think about 8:00pm developer's time and stayed down till around 10:00am developer time. In that time Adonys logged into the IRC and informed us that he couldnt restart the server and we would have to wait until today.
So where are the 12/12 shifts? Where are the devs there to keep the servers up? Where are the reports letting us, your PAYING customers know whats going on? Where is the working server restart tool? Where is the reactivate option in the acount management either on the ROT site or CCBill?
And most of all this question was prposed to ALL of the devs. So where are thier answers? Where is the customer service/care? And most of all WHERE IS THE GAME
For those that still don't get the point:
Please Read Inferno's thread-
Horizon's Thread on Mourning:
Fileplanet Thread on Mourning:
VN Boards Post on Mourning:
RPG Haven News on Mourning:
Harelin's Thread on Mourning:
Vanguard Thread on Mourning:
PKer's Thread on Mourning:
Shipwreaks Thread on Mourning:
Gamespot's Threads on Mourning:
KillerRat's Blog on Mourning:
Aggro's Blog on Mourning:
game memes blog on Mourning:
Burning Horde Thread on Mourning:
SomethingAwful.com Thread on Mourning
The Corpnews Thread on Mourning
And Quote of the Week from Aggro's Blog:
"Way back when I blasted Mourning for threatening to sue my favorite website.
So, it's nice to see that after a development phase filled with unending drama Mourning has gone "live" in disastrous fashion.
They are known for utilizing the concept of perma-death in their game but what we're seeing here is the perma-death of the game itself.
It's apparently so much fun that they already wiped the forums. Luckily, Flashman over at Game Memes has a nice screen capture in which one of the moderators tells people to "run from the game." That's always a good sign.
There are also some deleted posts from the Mourning forums at this link. My favorite quote from Egomancer is "And yes, you will pay to play a game that still should be in an alpha/beta stage. It should never get to this but this was our limit of competence..." Oh wow, that's great. Wouldn't want you to overreach your limit of competence. To be fair I don't know for sure if that's a valid quote as it is not in the official forums (which they wiped).
In the comments section over at Kill Ten Rats, Krones notes that the price has gone from $30 preorder to $20 now. Another encouraging item. In the same comments section Azeroth notes that they have actually censored the word "fraud" on the Mourning forums. Wonderful.
Here's a thread at MMORPG.COM taking bets on how long it takes to Mourning shuts down. Here's another thread with a 1/10 review. Yes, 1 is the lowest.
But read the Mourning forums (what's left of them) and make your own decision. Thrill to the tales of people who never got access to the game they paid for. Wonder in awe at the tales of the quest, crafting and fame system not being implemented. And how massive is it? How does 30 people sound?
Here's a fun quote from Egomancer I found in the official forums "1. we decided to offer this 19.95$ price for the serial because the users that preodered complained that the game does not worth a full 40$-50$ price. So we made it. Now the same people are complaining that we dropped the prices. Note that the people that preordered are the only ones that have the game CD. Consder it a collecion object. And please decide what do you want? Full price or not" (spelling and grammar mistakes his not mine)
Wow, these guys really seem to have their act together! Sign me up! And if anyone wants to sell me one of those collector's item game CD's the sky is the limit!"
Finally like Bitey Said:
"Anyway, I would like to thank the people(before the mourning board went down) that questioned how legit and businesslike mourning was.
So thanks, DerfelCadarn, Fadeus, Harelin, Grunch, Bugman, Bilas, Bitey, -Inferno-, Archais, Shurbber, and Razorback. And of course, thanks mmorpg.com and somethingawful.com!"
Note: I did not preorder, and questioned this game all along.
Disclaimer: To the mods/devs of the Mourning Board. This topic isn't and never will be about a crusade or hate. One rather strange member(the only one to call it a "crusade" and just recently posted) doesn't represent us all. That's like saying your spammers or juileblue represent all of you. Please stop being ignorant. Your labeling us, and labeling people is the a tatic used by tyrants. Jesus, Ghandi and Mandela are just a few examples of people authority labeled. Labeling the truth can keep your people in line. But the truth is out now, and is more powerful then any labeling can do. This thread is about fair business practices, and calling corrupt companies that won't answer questions on the carpet. Think of us as your local Better Buiness Bureaus(BBB) for mmorps.