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Just going to say it: I wish they had made the game 'dumber'

ashleymorrowashleymorrow Orlando, FLPosts: 176Member

I really like The Secret World. Certain elements of it are superb, easily the best by my standards in the crowded MMO market. The lush environments, the great stories, the horror elements and modern day setting really appeal to me. The dark humor is sharp as a razor.

But at time, TSW seems like work.  I read and reread the active and passive skills I'm using, trying to figure out if any of the fourteen I have slotted are useless or if another of the what, over five hundred skills in the game, would be better? Do we really need 500 + skills? All this time reading about theory crafting... I just want to play a game, not study. But because the game is so merciless, you really do have to sink time into it. Some people enjoy this, but I'm not one of them.

The loot is rarely someting I truly enjoy getting, because for every plus to one stat(s) there is usually a minus or two involved as well. So now I have to look at my character stats, try and figure out if this will make my character stronger or weaker or have little effect. Again, time not spent playing the game. I truly enjoy it when I find an item that is all Pluses! Those moments are rare though.

I believe this learning curve is really the one element that stopped TSW from being a runaway success. Because it has so much going for it. It oozes charm and personality. It is like no other game on the market. Its strengths are numerous. 

I wish they had a "dumb mode". An option for people like me who just want to play a game, not crunch numbers or look into optimum builds or what have you. I could pick something like "Fighter" and the next screen would say "OK, do you want to use guns, swords or magic?" And from there XP I earned would go into unlocking the best actives and passives. They would be automatically equipped for me.

This is not the game that many of TSW's fans want, I understand that. I am in no way looking down on people who do enjoy the statistics. I just wish it felt less like a chore at times. 

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Comments

  • TalonsinTalonsin Posts: 1,468Member Uncommon

    You are not alone.  Between the skills, the stats, the crazy inventory and the different marks (or what ever they call them) used to buy special gear in certain areas, it does seem to take much more effort to play this MMO than most others.

     

  • shadow9d9shadow9d9 Boca Raton, FLPosts: 366Member
    The problem with the game was the tiny miniscule and disconnected "worlds", ability to reach max effectiveness in less than a week, repetitive dungeon "endgame", ridiculously poor pvp, and the focus on a bad storyline in an mmo.
  • L0C0ManL0C0Man Puerto OrdazPosts: 1,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ashleymorrow

    I really like The Secret World. Certain elements of it are superb, easily the best by my standards in the crowded MMO market. The lush environments, the great stories, the horror elements and modern day setting really appeal to me. The dark humor is sharp as a razor.

    But at time, TSW seems like work.  I read and reread the active and passive skills I'm using, trying to figure out if any of the fourteen I have slotted are useless or if another of the what, over five hundred skills in the game, would be better? Do we really need 500 + skills? All this time reading about theory crafting... I just want to play a game, not study. But because the game is so merciless, you really do have to sink time into it. Some people enjoy this, but I'm not one of them.

    The loot is rarely someting I truly enjoy getting, because for every plus to one stat(s) there is usually a minus or two involved as well. So now I have to look at my character stats, try and figure out if this will make my character stronger or weaker or have little effect. Again, time not spent playing the game. I truly enjoy it when I find an item that is all Pluses! Those moments are rare though.

    I believe this learning curve is really the one element that stopped TSW from being a runaway success. Because it has so much going for it. It oozes charm and personality. It is like no other game on the market. Its strengths are numerous. 

    I wish they had a "dumb mode". An option for people like me who just want to play a game, not crunch numbers or look into optimum builds or what have you. I could pick something like "Fighter" and the next screen would say "OK, do you want to use guns, swords or magic?" And from there XP I earned would go into unlocking the best actives and passives. They would be automatically equipped for me.

    This is not the game that many of TSW's fans want, I understand that. I am in no way looking down on people who do enjoy the statistics. I just wish it felt less like a chore at times. 

    Well, I guess the "dumb" mode are the pre-made decks. You can read the description and tells you exactly what each does (tank, ranged damage, melee damage and so on), and points which skills you need for that deck. Of course, you won't be optimal for the role, but you will be able to fullfill it easily.

    Of course, you can also look at other peoples builds in sites like these: http://wordpress.tswguides.com/tsw-build-page/ and replicate them.

    What can men do against such reckless hate?

  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member

    Sometimes it can get aggrivating, Like yesterdays patch changing almost everything.

     

    But honestly i enjoy the theory crafting side of the game, my advice is to find a good group to work with and go that route. If you want my personal opinion Avoid the Cabal Misconseption because they have a natorious Reputation of Exploiting to win.

     

    Also anyone who gets all their gear maxed in a week is Exploting. Its mathamatically impossible to do.

     

    Also in terms of the disconnected World, i take it you would rather Walked from Maine To Egypt To Transylvania. People who complain about this are idiots who dont take into account how annoying the alteranative would be. We are playing on EARTH, not Azeroth. They did a calculation once and found the the planet of Azeroth is half the size of the moon. now take that into consiteration when trying to make Earth explorable.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • mistmakermistmaker viennaPosts: 231Member Uncommon

    theocrafting is the good part of that game, i wouldnt dumb down the skill system.

     

    for me, the bad things were that it didnt feel like a mmo, i could do everything, or had to do a lot of things alone.

     

    wearing social clothes isnt my thing neither. i understand why they had to do that, but its one of the great thing in mmos when you can show off your uber gear and improve from level to level.

     

    the talisman system is kinda boring. i would prefer a more traditionally system with armor....

     

    the animations and effects arent that great too. it gets boring when all the skills do similar animations and effects. clapping hands isnt cool too :-)

     

    its not a perfect game, but i liked it for 3 months, there are the best quests you will find in any mmo, but with a too solo feeling. graphics were also very good.

     

    still, they did a lot better with AO and AoC

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Rayshe
    Sometimes it can get aggrivating, Like yesterdays patch changing almost everything.

    Im not up to speed what exactly is the gripe?

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • VaporsVapors Fr.Posts: 407Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by shadow9d9
    The problem with the game was the tiny miniscule and disconnected "worlds", ability to reach max effectiveness in less than a week, repetitive dungeon "endgame", ridiculously poor pvp, and the focus on a bad storyline in an mmo.

    AKA. I didn't even play the game and just repeat everything what haters say about the game?

    I don't see a bad storyline, after i played tsw i had to skip every cutscene in every other game and GW2 cutscenes made me even close the game directly lol.

    The pvp is pretty hack and slay, but not ridiculously poor. It effords much dodging to be effective.

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon

    Good news OP, virtually every other game released these days is in "dumb mode".  Please let those of us that actually like to do some research have our game.  

     

    When the latest games released in "dumb mode" have a "thinking/research mode"  maybe you will have a point OP.

     

    I think I'm starting to understand the hardcore FFA full loot PvP people and their irritation with people suggesting PvE servers.  Let people have their game.  Especially when you are in the majority that almost all games are designed towards.

  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member
    I wonder if we are a even greater minority than the sandbox players. ya know people who actually want to have to think and plan to play.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member

    It may have 500 skills but most of them are useless or just copies of others.

    There has been a very long thread going on the offical forums about how to REGEN LIKE WOLVERINE...and that build and those like it have become the norm because it works with almost all main weapons.

    So yeah, you may have to "read" but once you do...you realize there is just a whole lot of fluff with little substance.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    It may have 500 skills but most of them are useless or just copies of others.

    There has been a very long thread going on the offical forums about how to REGEN LIKE WOLVERINE...and that build and those like it have become the norm because it works with almost all main weapons.

    So yeah, you may have to "read" but once you do...you realize there is just a whole lot of fluff with little substance.

    Dont really know of that one, or anyone who uses anything like that. Simply having a ton of regen seems pointless to me since 90% of the endgame content has Enrage which slowly increases the % of damage it does every tick.

     

    Also things are still being balenced. Its a little different than balencing classes because you have what 6-8 classes in the common MMO. Doing that with 500+ abilities is a little harder. Case and point we just got a HUGE rebalencing patch last night that caused Havok in my build. We are also still learning the ins and outs of builds. we got some of the good ones, but im positive there are better floating around that we havent put togeather yet.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    It may have 500 skills but most of them are useless or just copies of others.

    There has been a very long thread going on the offical forums about how to REGEN LIKE WOLVERINE...and that build and those like it have become the norm because it works with almost all main weapons.

    So yeah, you may have to "read" but once you do...you realize there is just a whole lot of fluff with little substance.

    Yeah with 500 skills it going to be very difficult to balance and make all skills super fantastic interesting.  Nice realistic expectations...

     

    I really want someone to show me a game with skill setup that has all interesting skills that are perfectly balanced.  People you can either have a game that it set up like this with lots of choices but not perfectly balanced or something very limited with better balance...good luck finding both.

     

    I do think people that want to think/research are the minority but not as small a minority as the full loot PvP people (responding to an earlier question in this thread).

  • BjelarBjelar RullumpPosts: 384Member
    Originally posted by ashleymorrow

    I wish they had a "dumb mode". An option for people like me who just want to play a game, not crunch numbers or look into optimum builds or what have you. I could pick something like "Fighter" and the next screen would say "OK, do you want to use guns, swords or magic?" And from there XP I earned would go into unlocking the best actives and passives. They would be automatically equipped for me.

     

    It can be a bit overwhelming for sure. But you do have a "dumb mode". Use the starter deck of your choice, never mind secondary stats (hit, crit, evade and so on). Just equip DPS talismans of highest QL. You dont need healing or health gear while solo leveling in the open world.

    As you get more and more into it, you will no doubt pay more attention to details. In fact, I think you will enjoy the theory-crafting more and more as you learn what it's all good for. Let it come naturally :)

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member

    I admit that I got pretty confused as far as what to do.  In order to try new weapons/combos I spent a crap ton of time in the starting zone.  Finally when I thought I was ready to move on, I got my arse handed to me by every other mob.  I hate to say it, but this game needed levels.  (not every game needs them, but this game does).  Even at Q level 4, I felt massively under powered with nearly any weapon combo.  

    I did like the first dungeon though.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon

    The systems need to be made more intuitive, not necessarily less complex.  When you're building a deck and change things around it would be good to have the interface feedback better how those changes affect you.

    The world could feel more seamless and less directed as well.  I think they handled the portal / travel system nicely though for the style of zoning that they use.  It does go a long way to minimizing that linear feel and gives a "pop into an area" feel instead.  Still it can be confining at times.

    I also really wish they would have dumped some of the mmo trappings.  For example, enrage timers?  Really?  For a game that is supposed to be outside of the box, that is pretty much deep in the middle of the box.  Those sorts of standard gimmicks feel out of place.

    It's still a gem though.  The ingame community is much nicer than their forum representatives.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,712Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rayshe

    Case and point we just got a HUGE rebalencing patch last night that caused Havok in my build. We are also still learning the ins and outs of builds. we got some of the good ones, but im positive there are better floating around that we havent put togeather yet.

    Maybe I was sloppy, but I wrote yesterday this update brought only a few funny valentine cards, a dating service, and some minor ability tweaking - beside Clearing the Path, that's a huge change. And maybe Empowerment. All the others are only a few sec + / - on cooldown, or a bit more or less damage. Did I miss something? :)

     

    To OP, not everyone likes messing around theory crafting. You can follow the ingame decks (some of them are pretty decent), and there are good sites with decks for every role and playstyle, you can simply take a few and playing with those.

    The talisman part is a bit different than most mmo's (there are good gear guides on the web as well). The individual talisman - and with it a single talisman drop - has not much importance. So it's not necessary to right away decide and equip every new loot on the go :) What is matters is the sum of your 7 talismans. While there are no classes in TSW, the default roles are there, and the talismans following the roles (tank, heal, dps). You need to mix those to optimize your deck. It doesn't need theorycrafting either, in most deck builds you can find on the web the author usually gives an optimal ratio, for example 70/30 tank/dps. You can follow that and you'll be fine :)

  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member
    Originally posted by Mardukk

    Good news OP, virtually every other game released these days is in "dumb mode".  Please let those of us that actually like to do some research have our game.  

     

    When the latest games released in "dumb mode" have a "thinking/research mode"  maybe you will have a point OP.

     

    I think I'm starting to understand the hardcore FFA full loot PvP people and their irritation with people suggesting PvE servers.  Let people have their game.  Especially when you are in the majority that almost all games are designed towards.

    Best response in this thread. There are plenty of dumbed down MMos out there. If easy mode insta gratification is your thing. WOW and its many knock offs awaits you. 

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,436Member Uncommon
    I agree! I also wish they had made the combat a little more actiony. It feels kinda clunky to spam the 1 key while moving around. Its like they are half way between action and tab targetting. I really want to either put 1(my builder) as an auto attack, or get full reticle combat with left click functioning as the number 1 attack while in that mode.

    image
  • ashleymorrowashleymorrow Orlando, FLPosts: 176Member
    Originally posted by Mardukk

    Good news OP, virtually every other game released these days is in "dumb mode".  Please let those of us that actually like to do some research have our game.  

     

    When the latest games released in "dumb mode" have a "thinking/research mode"  maybe you will have a point OP.

     

    I think I'm starting to understand the hardcore FFA full loot PvP people and their irritation with people suggesting PvE servers.  Let people have their game.  Especially when you are in the majority that almost all games are designed towards.

     

    I simply made a post on a forum stating my opinion, and with what I consider a good deal of polite respect. Just to be clear, I don't work for Funcom and this wasn't a patch note. Hope I cleared up the confusion for you, I can't "let you have" anything. 

  • ashleymorrowashleymorrow Orlando, FLPosts: 176Member
    Originally posted by L0C0Man
     

    Well, I guess the "dumb" mode are the pre-made decks. You can read the description and tells you exactly what each does (tank, ranged damage, melee damage and so on), and points which skills you need for that deck. Of course, you won't be optimal for the role, but you will be able to fullfill it easily.

    Of course, you can also look at other peoples builds in sites like these: http://wordpress.tswguides.com/tsw-build-page/ and replicate them.

     

    Yeah I pretty much go with the premade decks and then substitute a few of my favorites. I've read some guides, but most people aren't going to do that. I think the low player numbers are the primary symptom of the truth of that statement, because TSW:

    1) Has great stories.

    2) Great graphics.

    3) Great VO work.

    4) Great quests.

    5) The best overall ambiance of any MMO to date.

    So while it is true that there wasn't much advertising, I don't think that excuse holds much water. I think TSW's low numbers and iffy future are because they did not make the game more mainstream. If the game closes then we all lose, both those of us who love it and the player who has yet to hear of it.

    As someone stated above, perhaps it simply does need to be more intutive. And I don't see why a 'dumb mode' or 'auto pilot' couldn't co-exist with the existing version for those who do like to crunch numbers. 

    But if I had to go back in time and was able to cast the pivotal ballot on a theory crafting heavy game or a more traditional MMO, I would say traditional because what I love about TSW would not be affected and it would have, in my opinion, a lot more players and thus a lot more steady content.

     

    Edit: I realize my list of 1 to 5 "greats" above is subjective. If you disagree that is certainly your right, but that's how I feel.

     

  • ashleymorrowashleymorrow Orlando, FLPosts: 176Member
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    I agree! I also wish they had made the combat a little more actiony. It feels kinda clunky to spam the 1 key while moving around. Its like they are half way between action and tab targetting. I really want to either put 1(my builder) as an auto attack, or get full reticle combat with left click functioning as the number 1 attack while in that mode.

     

    I seem to be one of the few people who really has no problem with the combat. Maybe that's because I'm more into RP, exploring, what have you. PvP has never been a draw for me and I gave up trying to get into the battlegrounds in TSW: I can usually play for no more than an hour at a time and I just never seem to get in.

    But, I hear they are working on the combat and the combat animations, so don't lose hope. I just came back from a 2 month break and they had made a lot of positive changes. They really are trying, they really do listen, they do care, I just get the distinct impression that they have too little manpower to enact all the changes they want as soon as they want.

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ashleymorrow

    I really like The Secret World. Certain elements of it are superb, easily the best by my standards in the crowded MMO market. The lush environments, the great stories, the horror elements and modern day setting really appeal to me. The dark humor is sharp as a razor.

    But at time, TSW seems like work.  I read and reread the active and passive skills I'm using, trying to figure out if any of the fourteen I have slotted are useless or if another of the what, over five hundred skills in the game, would be better? Do we really need 500 + skills? All this time reading about theory crafting... I just want to play a game, not study. But because the game is so merciless, you really do have to sink time into it. Some people enjoy this, but I'm not one of them.

    The loot is rarely someting I truly enjoy getting, because for every plus to one stat(s) there is usually a minus or two involved as well. So now I have to look at my character stats, try and figure out if this will make my character stronger or weaker or have little effect. Again, time not spent playing the game. I truly enjoy it when I find an item that is all Pluses! Those moments are rare though.

    I believe this learning curve is really the one element that stopped TSW from being a runaway success. Because it has so much going for it. It oozes charm and personality. It is like no other game on the market. Its strengths are numerous. 

    I wish they had a "dumb mode". An option for people like me who just want to play a game, not crunch numbers or look into optimum builds or what have you. I could pick something like "Fighter" and the next screen would say "OK, do you want to use guns, swords or magic?" And from there XP I earned would go into unlocking the best actives and passives. They would be automatically equipped for me.

    This is not the game that many of TSW's fans want, I understand that. I am in no way looking down on people who do enjoy the statistics. I just wish it felt less like a chore at times. 

    One of the more constructive pieces of criticism I've seen lately, and very reasonable. :)  

    Like others have said, the starter decks and many of the decks posted on websites and forums are a quick way to get going without much theorycrafting, but your point is well taken.  It would almost be nice, if when, picking an ability, you'd get a pop-up that gave you a bit more information about the ability and possibly what kind of role it works well with (tanks, dps, whatever), and possibly gave you some feedback as to which other abilities would work well with it.  Just a little bit of hand-holding and guidance as you pick through the wheel.  I could see a mod maybe being written....

    Another way they could make it easier is to offer a series of video tutorials on some of the more advanced aspects of the deck building system.  All things that could ease people into the system a bit.  

    The starter decks are the shallow end of the pool, but the system does make it easy to get in over your head, too.  I enjoy the difficulty myself, but I'm not opposed to making the system easier to understand.

  • ashleymorrowashleymorrow Orlando, FLPosts: 176Member
    I always enjoy your posts, Ortwig. Thanks for being a constructive and positive person.
  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,436Member Uncommon
    I think the game should have been designed and marketed a little differently too. Should have been b2p from the start. Should have been more action oriented and not marketed as a traditional mmo but more of a modern day RPG that happens to be online.

    They should have focused on the story and gameplay and let the mmo parts be more of a bonus. I think it would have went over better.

    image
  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member

    Hell NO.

    The market is over saturated with "dumb" MMOs. TSW is carving its niche and so far has a fantastic community, let the game keep up its philosophy.

    By the way if you don´t want to figure out an own character build you can still aim for the decks.

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