Originally posted by ShakyMo I think they should take 1 thing from WAR. make shield carrying tanks the main crowd controllers and copy some of them pvp tanking abilities like hold the line.
This is one thing war did very well, tanks in pvp, probably better than any other mmo (although weirdly eq2 does tanks good in pvp too)
Actually make it 3 things, I really liked the morale bar and the tok too.
I agree with you 100%! I feel all class and spec types should have a role in pvp, especially tanks. playing a protection warrior in wow was useless and playing a Paladin tank in Rift pvp was useless. but my group in WAR couldnt function without our ironbreaker snaring, knocking down and especially punting people away from heals.
The reason I want there to be a reason to play a TANK, weather it be for the CC or the utility of guarding a caster/healer. Make the tanks abilities and anytime spam attacks be WEAK, but the attacks thay key off block parry dodge be extremely powerful and have utility,
Question for you all.
Are you ok with mez/sleep?if so , how long is too long and how short is too short
Are you ok with snares? who should have them, should they be grouped in with CC and have an immunity?
Should CC be clensable?
Should Tanks be resistant to CC like in daoc?
Do you like fear as a mechanic more than Mez/Sleep? can a game use both?
Of the following which can stay and go Mez/Sleep, silence, Fear, snare minor (-10%) snare major (70%), Disarm/Dont Act, Root/Dont move, knock down, stun, , knock back, Polymorph, Reversal (your attacks heal as opposed to harm) Banish (cant move or act but cant be hit) and finally "feedback" (take a large % of your life every time you do X until you die)
Originally posted by ShakyMo I think they should take 1 thing from WAR. make shield carrying tanks the main crowd controllers and copy some of them pvp tanking abilities like hold the line.
This is one thing war did very well, tanks in pvp, probably better than any other mmo (although weirdly eq2 does tanks good in pvp too)
Actually make it 3 things, I really liked the morale bar and the tok too.
1Are you ok with mez/sleep?if so , how long is too long and how short is too short
2Are you ok with snares? who should have them, should they be grouped in with CC and have an immunity?
3Should CC be clensable?
4Should Tanks be resistant to CC like in daoc?
5Do you like fear as a mechanic more than Mez/Sleep? can a game use both?
Of the following which can stay and go Mez/Sleep, silence, Fear, snare minor (-10%) snare major (70%), Disarm/Dont Act, Root/Dont move, knock down, stun, , knock back, Polymorph, Reversal (your attacks heal as opposed to harm) Banish (cant move or act but cant be hit) and finally "feedback" (take a large % of your life every time you do X until you die)
1) YES, it's perfect. It shouldn't be longer than one minute and shorter than 10s. It's mezz not a stun.
2) They should be like in daoc
3) only with special abilities on timer
4) yes, they should get benefit like this over other classes for their weak dps
5) I prefer mezz. Both at once might be a bit overpowered in some cases.
What can stay:
Mezz/ silence/ snare minor, snare major, disarm, root, knock down, stun (max 4-6s), knock back (MUST BE IT'S SO COOL).
Knock back is really cool ability. It is very tactical and it's not overpovered and it gives a lot of fun.
Polymorph to the set above would be a bit overpowred. Other things sounds a bit too complicated.
.....providing all the hard cc like stun, fear, mez etc.. breaks upon damage and gives you immunity for a few seconds.
Nothing more annoying than getting killed when you can't fight back. Nothing more spammy and lacking in tactics than cc just used as part of a damage rotation - see wow / rift / gw2
You aboslutely don't get what CC is. Its NOT just unbreakable stun.
Breakable root is still CC. You hit with a mezz to increas distance and AOE, during the cooldown of the breakable you AOE DoTs while your Warlocks drop bubbles keeping you all alive or then hit with an unbreakable stun and continue to AoE. Rince, Repeat...go youtube any of the MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF PvP videos still up that show groups of 4 or 8 taking out DOZENS with the SAME TACTICS.
You guys sound like the people posting on Elitists Jerks website screaming at the videos showing Bunker Elementalists PvPing that it just plain isnt possible...just more proof, strategy is limited to the knowledge of the individual claiming it.
Not all fights in Dark Age were like that. In fact, most weren't. It took a combination of a great group that was built a certain way and with timing and communication, and enemies who clumped, and didn't have easily obtainable tools like purge. Here's another pvp video from Dark Age.
Although this is just like the stealth and /stick conversations...it all depends on what type of PVP CU is supposed to be. If CU PVP is going to be an action game more like a FPS (like EQ2, TSW, etc) than an mmo then cc, /stick, etc won't really have much of a place. But if CU is going to be a strategic and tactical game that plays more like DAOC, then OP is right on the money.
Long CC was good, but only in the later days with diminishing returns, cure mez and purges. Without that it can limit the enjoyment. If people have the ability to get those abilities, such as purge, then they have no one to blame but themselves if they are mez'd/cc'd the whole fight.
And I'm all for Hard interrupts. I don't get how a caster can sit there "tanking" me while he's casting...surely magic needs some form of concentration and me htiting them with my giant hammer must ruin at least some of it.
Hmm...I think I'm 100% FOR the DAoC style CC & immunity. As much as I haaaaaaaated getting mezzed in RvR for a solid 45s-1min without purge up I think it played a vital part in how DAoC functioned. I absolutely hate things like knock-backs in Rift!
Having CC is essential...it forces you to watch your playstyle, which is not a bad thing. It keeps us from mindlessly running around mashing buttons till everyones flat on the ground. It actually makes you THINK about positioning
Comments
I agree with you 100%! I feel all class and spec types should have a role in pvp, especially tanks. playing a protection warrior in wow was useless and playing a Paladin tank in Rift pvp was useless. but my group in WAR couldnt function without our ironbreaker snaring, knocking down and especially punting people away from heals.
The reason I want there to be a reason to play a TANK, weather it be for the CC or the utility of guarding a caster/healer. Make the tanks abilities and anytime spam attacks be WEAK, but the attacks thay key off block parry dodge be extremely powerful and have utility,
Question for you all.
Are you ok with mez/sleep?if so , how long is too long and how short is too short
Are you ok with snares? who should have them, should they be grouped in with CC and have an immunity?
Should CC be clensable?
Should Tanks be resistant to CC like in daoc?
Do you like fear as a mechanic more than Mez/Sleep? can a game use both?
Of the following which can stay and go Mez/Sleep, silence, Fear, snare minor (-10%) snare major (70%), Disarm/Dont Act, Root/Dont move, knock down, stun, , knock back, Polymorph, Reversal (your attacks heal as opposed to harm) Banish (cant move or act but cant be hit) and finally "feedback" (take a large % of your life every time you do X until you die)
1) YES, it's perfect. It shouldn't be longer than one minute and shorter than 10s. It's mezz not a stun.
2) They should be like in daoc
3) only with special abilities on timer
4) yes, they should get benefit like this over other classes for their weak dps
5) I prefer mezz. Both at once might be a bit overpowered in some cases.
What can stay:
Mezz/ silence/ snare minor, snare major, disarm, root, knock down, stun (max 4-6s), knock back (MUST BE IT'S SO COOL).
Knock back is really cool ability. It is very tactical and it's not overpovered and it gives a lot of fun.
Polymorph to the set above would be a bit overpowred. Other things sounds a bit too complicated.
.....providing all the hard cc like stun, fear, mez etc.. breaks upon damage and gives you immunity for a few seconds.
Nothing more annoying than getting killed when you can't fight back. Nothing more spammy and lacking in tactics than cc just used as part of a damage rotation - see wow / rift / gw2
Not all fights in Dark Age were like that. In fact, most weren't. It took a combination of a great group that was built a certain way and with timing and communication, and enemies who clumped, and didn't have easily obtainable tools like purge. Here's another pvp video from Dark Age.
I agree completely with OP.
Although this is just like the stealth and /stick conversations...it all depends on what type of PVP CU is supposed to be. If CU PVP is going to be an action game more like a FPS (like EQ2, TSW, etc) than an mmo then cc, /stick, etc won't really have much of a place. But if CU is going to be a strategic and tactical game that plays more like DAOC, then OP is right on the money.
Long CC was good, but only in the later days with diminishing returns, cure mez and purges. Without that it can limit the enjoyment. If people have the ability to get those abilities, such as purge, then they have no one to blame but themselves if they are mez'd/cc'd the whole fight.
And I'm all for Hard interrupts. I don't get how a caster can sit there "tanking" me while he's casting...surely magic needs some form of concentration and me htiting them with my giant hammer must ruin at least some of it.
DAoC - RIP
Hmm...I think I'm 100% FOR the DAoC style CC & immunity. As much as I haaaaaaaated getting mezzed in RvR for a solid 45s-1min without purge up I think it played a vital part in how DAoC functioned. I absolutely hate things like knock-backs in Rift!
Having CC is essential...it forces you to watch your playstyle, which is not a bad thing. It keeps us from mindlessly running around mashing buttons till everyones flat on the ground.
It actually makes you THINK about positioning
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