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NW: massively first impressions, worthy of being DDO2

NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/11/first-impressions-of-neverwinter-beta/

Summary:

I would say that if you like DDO, you're going to love Neverwinter because it seems as if it could just be called DDO 2 at this point. And that's a good thing.

Pros

  • Strong focus on player-driven content
  • Gorgeous art style
  • Events are well-organized and easy to join
  • Extensive currency system
  • Exploring is rewarded
  • Puzzles and hidden rooms!
Cons
  • Clunky combat
  • Dated character models
  • Linear default storyline
 
---------------------------------------
 
edit
- fixed the title 
- the "I" in the summary is not me
«1

Comments

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/11/first-impressions-of-neverwinter-beta/

    Summary:

    I would say that if you like DDO, you're going to love Neverwinter because it seems as if it could just be called DDO 2 at this point. And that's a good thing.

    Pros

    • Strong focus on player-driven content
    • Gorgeous art style
    • Events are well-organized and easy to join
    • Extensive currency system
    • Exploring is rewarded
    • Puzzles and hidden rooms!
    Cons
    • Clunky combat
    • Dated character models
    • Linear default storyline

    What I like about DDO is the D&D class/skill progression. It doesn't seem like NW has that sort of depth.I could be wrong though. I'll check at launch. 

     

    ot - clunky when used without further explanation should be infractable. 

    edit- explanation in article.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by bcbully

    ot - clunky when used without further explanation should be infractable. 

    the article describes why they summarized that

     

    from same link,  4 reasons why they described combat as "clunky"

    =====================================================

    First of all, I understand and respect the fact that the combat was created to be action-based with a reticle and aim-to-hit primary attacks. But you can't have this type of set-up if the reaction time of your skills is clunky and delayed. Double-tapping to dodge away from attacks works wonderfully in games like Guild Wars 2, but not in Neverwinter. Even that split second delay in your character's reaction due to a drawn-out dodge animation can cause some serious grief.

    On top of that, you can just go ahead and say goodbye to your hotbar friends 1,2,3,4,5, and 6; your new friends Q, E, R, Tab, left mouse button, and right mouse button are setting up shop. I'm not as bothered by these nontraditional keys because you can easily rebind them in the options, but I thought I'd warn you.

    Strafing is also noticeably absent, which takes quite a bit away from the dynamic of combat, especially in ranged classes. I want to fire off daggers at that orc while running for cover behind that crate over there, not be frozen to the ground with a big target painted on my forehead.

    That brings me to my final gripe about combat: auto targeting. It took me a few battles to realize that I was being assisted by the gods (i.e., a magnetic force that brought my reticle right over the baddies every time), but I felt that it was a bit too much in the hand-holding department. I will admit, I did enjoy the fact that I was automatically spun around to face the target each time, avoiding those annoying warnings you see in other games when you're not at the exact correct angle to your enemy. I guess it's give-and-take.

     

     

  • sea.shellsea.shell SelfossPosts: 63Member

    You can't blindfire powers as they need a valid "target". (not the mouse attacks / daily)
    The magnetic aim help is more about a different way to "TAB TARGET" than actually helping you aim.

    Playing: EVE Online
    Wants to play: ArcheAge, Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance / Star Citizen / FFXIV AAR / Neverwinter

    Used to play for 5+ years: Lineage 2, Lord of the Rings Online and Ragnarok Online

    Utter disappointing MMO experience for 1 - 3 Months:
    WAR / AoC / SWTOR / RIFT / AION / STO / TSW / GW2 / GW / Vanguard / Planetside2

  • MetanolMetanol TamperePosts: 247Member Uncommon

    It is sad that I must resolt to repeating the same tune, but I would not link Neverwinter the MMO to DDO in any way. Usually when game series progress, they make advancement and progress in terms of depth, customization and freedom.

    I've never respected Joystiq and will once again disagree quite heavily here.

     

    So, where should I start? Lets leave this short and stick to these two points. We could mention gameplay mechanics what differ completely, but this is not worth my while.

    Customization, yes.. in terms of gameplay mechanics, not visual customization of character.

    DDO allowed multiclassing and launched with 9 classes total. This alone beats the Neverwinter's 5 class system, which has restricted weapons and gear by class (Give me a valid explanation why a Guardian fighter can't equip equal heavy armor greaves which just say "restricted to great weapon fighter".)

    DDO was more marketed with the phrase Dungeons & Dragons, while Neverwinter is sold as.. well, just Neverwinter. And this shows - Neverwinter has took a step far away from D&D rules, lets not go into details here, but lets say that DDO is closer to a "true D&D experience."

     

    Puzzles & Traps & Secrets

    Of course we have not seen much, but the few puzzles and traps what have been shown in Closed Beta gameplay videos, look just terrible. Where's the secret or the exploration, if it's an empty cavern, with one bookshelf at the end (with a Shining book glowing in the middle like a road flare)

    DDO's path might have been a bit too hardcore. They brought in the skills from 3rd edition. Anyone who had enough Search / Spot / Listen skill could find secret doors and spot traps.

     

    Conclusion

    While Neverwinter will probably be a larger commercial success than DDO, it has no right what-so-ever to be called a "DDO2". The gameplay is completely different, as is the company which made it. The whole theme and the idea is different.

    We?re all dead, just say it.

  • FalcomithFalcomith Hastings, FLPosts: 800Member
    Originally posted by Metanol

     

     

    Puzzles & Traps & Secrets

    Of course we have not seen much, but the few puzzles and traps what have been shown in Closed Beta gameplay videos, look just terrible. Where's the secret or the exploration, if it's an empty cavern, with one bookshelf at the end (with a Shining book glowing in the middle like a road flare)

    DDO's path might have been a bit too hardcore. They brought in the skills from 3rd edition. Anyone who had enough Search / Spot / Listen skill could find secret doors and spot traps.

     

    Conclusion

    While Neverwinter will probably be a larger commercial success than DDO, it has no right what-so-ever to be called a "DDO2". The gameplay is completely different, as is the company which made it. The whole theme and the idea is different.

    Just want to mention about the the traps as I have played in the past beta weekend. Traps are more noticable when playing a rogue. They sparkle. Rogues can disarm them.

    I went back into the same area with my Cleric, and I totally forgot about the traps and got nailed by just about everyone of them. 

    As far as the secret book case with the skull, that can only be opened by the warrior as they use a dungeonering skill. Or if playing another class you can use the dungeonerring item, which can drop or be purchased, that allows you to open as many as you want in 3 mins. But by the time you find the next one, if there is one, your 3 min period is up.

     

    NVW wont be for everyone. I'd say any hardcore D&D people will probably like DDO better. But what will keep NVW goinf will be the player created content.

  • MetanolMetanol TamperePosts: 247Member Uncommon
    Even though I am quite cautiously negative towards Neverwinter, I am actually looking forward to it - but not as a D&D experience of any kind, just an AmmoRPG to play with a few friends.

    We?re all dead, just say it.

  • OsmanthusOsmanthus Issaquah, WAPosts: 104Member


    Strafing is also noticeably absent 

    I think actually you can only strafe, there is no keyboard turn.

  • grimfallgrimfall Missouri City, TXPosts: 1,155Member Uncommon
    You cannot move and attack simultaneously.
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by grimfall
    You cannot move and attack simultaneously.

     yea you can.. even just watch the class trailer for the cleric https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVER5rZy-Zs looks like there are skills that root you but you can see some skills allow movement while casting.. from videos i saw lots of skills do lock you in the animation like TERA though so not as free form as GW2

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • SuperNickSuperNick CambridgePosts: 460Member
    Spose it might kill a day or two, which is never a bad thing in this MMO drought.  Seems like they made the right choice with it being completely F2P.
  • grimfallgrimfall Missouri City, TXPosts: 1,155Member Uncommon
    Aerowyn, they changed that. If you watch any beta footage from this past weekend, you won't see people moving and attacking. The lead goes into some detail about it on the MMORPG.com dungeon playthrough.
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by grimfall
    Aerowyn, they changed that. If you watch any beta footage from this past weekend, you won't see people moving and attacking. The lead goes into some detail about it on the MMORPG.com dungeon playthrough.

    odd don't see why they would.. not being able to cast on the run and being locked into the animation was one thing i hated about tera's combat.. hopefully i enjoy this one more

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Great...50 bucks well spent then i guess;) really looking forward to dungeon crawling with friends.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • LaromussLaromuss vancouver, BCPosts: 324Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by grimfall
    You cannot move and attack simultaneously.

     yea you can.. even just watch the class trailer for the cleric https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVER5rZy-Zs looks like there are skills that root you but you can see some skills allow movement while casting.. from videos i saw lots of skills do lock you in the animation like TERA though so not as free form as GW2

    I've played up to level 30 (beta cap) on my cleric, and there are very few moves that allow moving and attacking.  The only one I can think of is the Daily Power which is instant but still roots the cleric in place.  Right mouse requires standing, LMB same, Q, W, E , R , etc.   But I will say this becuase we are limited to standing you really have to pay attention during fights and boss fights which makes it a lot more challenging and fun.  But keep in mind this though, it is different on the rogue, he can move a bit while attacking with his main attack which give a bit more mobility.  I played the Rogue up to level 20 and this guy is not your typical rogue, think of him asa a ninja on Roids.  You are able to jump in and take on 5 mobs at the same time and if you are skilled at moving during the fight you won't get hit due to the skills that are given which help avoid damage.  

    Even though the characters are rooted in the game, they are all still agile and can move quickly with dodging and don't feel like heavy lumps of coal as they do in TERA which I hate very much.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Laross
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by grimfall
    You cannot move and attack simultaneously.

     yea you can.. even just watch the class trailer for the cleric https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVER5rZy-Zs looks like there are skills that root you but you can see some skills allow movement while casting.. from videos i saw lots of skills do lock you in the animation like TERA though so not as free form as GW2

    I've played up to level 30 (beta cap) on my cleric, and there are very few moves that allow moving and attacking.  The only one I can think of is the Daily Power which is instant but still roots the cleric in place.  Right mouse requires standing, LMB same, Q, W, E , R , etc.   But I will say this becuase we are limited to standing you really have to pay attention during fights and boss fights which makes it a lot more challenging and fun.  But keep in mind this though, it is different on the rogue, he can move a bit while attacking with his main attack which give a bit more mobility.  I played the Rogue up to level 20 and this guy is not your typical rogue, think of him asa a ninja on Roids.  You are able to jump in and take on 5 mobs at the same time and if you are skilled at moving during the fight you won't get hit due to the skills that are given which help avoid damage.  

    Even though the characters are rooted in the game, they are all still agile and can move quickly with dodging and don't feel like heavy lumps of coal as they do in TERA which I hate very much.

    that is very good to know as it's why i could never get into TERA combat really at all

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • MesamhainMesamhain Jacksonville, FLPosts: 4Member

    I myself enjoyed the beta immensly. It was just like 4th edition but for some reason it seemed to flow better as a video game instead of PnP. The cleric was a blast and the rogue was a total little damage machine. If you go into this game with any kind of expectation that it will play like another you WILL be disappointed.

    I liked the mechanics a lot. I was able to concentrate on the battle itself and not have to look at my HUD. It felt natural. As far as people trying to compare this to DDO, dont. They are two separate games that only share the DND universe together. There is great things about both games, but they are two different worlds, two different styles and frankly two different games. 

    The game style is amazing. it is not realistic yet not too cartoony like WoW either. it  is a nice cross. to me it looks like GW2's style. My hope is that they will have more choices for the character generator. As it is now they are seeverely lacking compared to all other Cryptic games.

    It is a very light program, maybe 7 gigs or so. Ran at almost 75fps constantly even when surrounded by a bunch of people and during the boss battles in dungeons. ( my comp is no where near top of the line anymore either.)

    try the game it is free to download and free to play when it is released. If you don't like it, don't play it. That simple. But do not compare it to another game and try to say it sucks when all you have seen is it streamed. Open your mind and play for the game for what it is and it may suprise you.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon

    Really don't like the "NWN" in the title..

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • LaromussLaromuss vancouver, BCPosts: 324Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nitth

    Really don't like the "NWN" in the title..

    its NeverWinter (NW)  not Neverwinter Nights (NWN)

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Mesamhain

    I myself enjoyed the beta immensly. It was just like 4th edition but for some reason it seemed to flow better as a video game instead of PnP. The cleric was a blast and the rogue was a total little damage machine. If you go into this game with any kind of expectation that it will play like another you WILL be disappointed.

    I liked the mechanics a lot. I was able to concentrate on the battle itself and not have to look at my HUD. It felt natural. As far as people trying to compare this to DDO, dont. They are two separate games that only share the DND universe together. There is great things about both games, but they are two different worlds, two different styles and frankly two different games. 

    The game style is amazing. it is not realistic yet not too cartoony like WoW either. it  is a nice cross. to me it looks like GW2's style. My hope is that they will have more choices for the character generator. As it is now they are seeverely lacking compared to all other Cryptic games.

    It is a very light program, maybe 7 gigs or so. Ran at almost 75fps constantly even when surrounded by a bunch of people and during the boss battles in dungeons. ( my comp is no where near top of the line anymore either.)

    try the game it is free to download and free to play when it is released. If you don't like it, don't play it. That simple. But do not compare it to another game and try to say it sucks when all you have seen is it streamed. Open your mind and play for the game for what it is and it may suprise you.

    generally my philosophy with all new games I'm interested in :) has worked at well so far.. when you go in expecting exactly something you got stuck in your head that a game is about or has or will do for you,  you are setting yourself up for failure and overly biased views on the game.. I don't ever put high expectations on new games and find this works out best

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • MesamhainMesamhain Jacksonville, FLPosts: 4Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Mesamhain

    I myself enjoyed the beta immensly. It was just like 4th edition but for some reason it seemed to flow better as a video game instead of PnP. The cleric was a blast and the rogue was a total little damage machine. If you go into this game with any kind of expectation that it will play like another you WILL be disappointed.

    I liked the mechanics a lot. I was able to concentrate on the battle itself and not have to look at my HUD. It felt natural. As far as people trying to compare this to DDO, dont. They are two separate games that only share the DND universe together. There is great things about both games, but they are two different worlds, two different styles and frankly two different games. 

    The game style is amazing. it is not realistic yet not too cartoony like WoW either. it  is a nice cross. to me it looks like GW2's style. My hope is that they will have more choices for the character generator. As it is now they are seeverely lacking compared to all other Cryptic games.

    It is a very light program, maybe 7 gigs or so. Ran at almost 75fps constantly even when surrounded by a bunch of people and during the boss battles in dungeons. ( my comp is no where near top of the line anymore either.)

    try the game it is free to download and free to play when it is released. If you don't like it, don't play it. That simple. But do not compare it to another game and try to say it sucks when all you have seen is it streamed. Open your mind and play for the game for what it is and it may suprise you.

    generally my philosophy with all new games I'm interested in :) has worked at well so far.. when you go in expecting exactly something you got stuck in your head that a game is about or has or will do for you,  you are setting yourself up for failure and overly biased views on the game.. I don't ever put high expectations on new games and find this works out best

    Exactly. I have been around DnD for almost 32 years, and gaming for a couple years more than that. I do not go into movies with expectations nor do i with Gaming. It is suprised me more often than not with both of them.

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,113Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/11/first-impressions-of-neverwinter-beta/

    Summary:

    I would say that if you like DDO, you're going to love Neverwinter because it seems as if it could just be called DDO 2 at this point. And that's a good thing.

    Pros

    • Strong focus on player-driven content
    • Gorgeous art style
    • Events are well-organized and easy to join
    • Extensive currency system
    • Exploring is rewarded
    • Puzzles and hidden rooms!
    Cons
    • Clunky combat
    • Dated character models
    • Linear default storyline

    Are you serious?  I have played this all weekend and while I enjoyed the game it is no where near a DDO 2 lol.  My guess is that peeps that love DDO will mostly hate this game if they come in thinking it will be "DDO 2".

    Here is my  PROS:

     

    Nice graphics

    Fast paced action (zerger heaven) even if it is rooted combat.

    Plenty of quests

    Foundry

    solo centric for the most part

    noob friendly as the classes are "pathed"  or premade so new players can't gimp themsleves from lack of knowledge of game mechanics

     

    CONS:

     

    rooted combat - you can't attack and move at the same time, everytime you attack your character is rooted in place.

    The official quests are bland and kind of lacking but there is already UGC that is better

    Character models look  meh

    overall a serious lack of customization - character looks wise I think this will improve but as of now it is lacking for a cryptic,pwe game

    classes - they don't give classes like fighter or rogue or cleric. What they do is give you 4E wotc suggested class paths. Example for fighter you don't choose fighter then build it like you want, you instead get two choices of builds either "great weapon fighter" or "guardian fighter"  and you don't get to choose your powers they are given/chosen for you as you level up

    stats- you don't roll your stats, you get a choice of a couple arrays.  Example on my rogue when I clicked roll it just switched between two preset choices of stats arrays. Only 3 stats changed between those arrays dex, cha and wis the other stats stayed the same

    class bound armor/weapons - from 1 to 30 my rogue only saw daggers drop for him except one time I got a one handed axe

    no day/night cycles

    no swimming

    no camera zooming - when in "normal mode" whioch is the mode where you see the UI you can not use the mouse wheel to zoom in or out the camera/view. You can only do this in "inspect mode" which is when you make the UI invisible.

    puzzles are very basic and laughable at this point - example the one puzzle I ran into from 1 to 30 was 3 statues that you have to turn so they all face forward to open a secret door etc.  If your are looking for shroud/reaver type puzzles don't look

    traps seem like an after thought

    As it stands now you will not be able to make custom builds nor will you be able to have varied gear sets, hell all the daggers even looked the same skin wise. 

    The game is very solo friendly except for a few quests that require a full party to enter them.

     

    Overall this game is fun but only if you want a console type action based game that has some FR lore as a backdrop. If you are after a true DnD game that allows player customization and flexibility you will be dissappointed.

     

    DDO is still the better DnD game if you look past the graphics.  I will most likely play both but for very different reasons.

     

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  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon
    Clunky? Wow that's so far off

    image
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,113Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Clunky? Wow that's so far off

    My guess is that person is not used to the game controls which are similar to Vindictus and didn't know how to express that combat is "rooted combat".

     

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
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    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD

  • XepherdXepherd ParisPosts: 103Member
    "

    worthy of being DDO2"

     

     

    Neverwinter is awesome but let's not get too excited...certainly not DDO2

     

     

    Originally posted by Asm0deus

    puzzles are very basic and laughable at this point - example the one puzzle I ran into from 1 to 30 was 3 statues that you have to turn so they all face forward to open a secret door etc.  If your are looking for shroud/reaver type puzzles don't look

    Nice judging early game puzzles from the BETA, you're talking about the first puzzle in the game, it was the first dungeon introducing puzzles and you're talking like you already did endgame content and all higher level dungeons?

    It's like saying "Oh I played Guild Wars 2, in the beginning tutorial I killed this giant dragon, dragons are easy to kill in this game look somewhere else"

    What about doing some REAL dungeons first? You should wait to see more IMHO, and don't forget puzzles made by Foundry creators :)

  • sea.shellsea.shell SelfossPosts: 63Member

    There is still some slight missinformation spreading about rooting with animations.


    Neverwinter has still a mix, yes even for the cleric. During Divinity mode your channeled bolt is usable WHILE running. Your Powers become instant and can be used WHILE moving.

    The Guardian and Trickster "slide" (1m) per attack, depending in which direction you press. It isn't free movement but neither are you rooted. If you don't press a direction you stand still (...).

    It's no different than a Warrior / Slayer in Tera, or a Warrior/ Elementalist in Gw2. You got your special skills like leaping to an enemy or channeled skills where you need to stand still (Sword adrenaline move). Only difference is your two default attacks slide / root you with the three current classes.

    Playing: EVE Online
    Wants to play: ArcheAge, Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance / Star Citizen / FFXIV AAR / Neverwinter

    Used to play for 5+ years: Lineage 2, Lord of the Rings Online and Ragnarok Online

    Utter disappointing MMO experience for 1 - 3 Months:
    WAR / AoC / SWTOR / RIFT / AION / STO / TSW / GW2 / GW / Vanguard / Planetside2

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