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PoE's problems are too big.

adam_noxadam_nox hays, KSPosts: 2,035Member Uncommon

If you have a group of friends to play this with, and are willing to spec defense, you will probably have fun. 

 

If not, then your fun won't last.  I gimped my char.  I don't play long hours, so it took me a long time to get to 30, and I will wait before starting over.  I went all offense, and even then I don't kill things fast solo, but they kill me fast, including usually 1-shotting my minions. 

 

I'm so bad I barely made it to act 3, only after starting my own group advertising open portal to vaal.  Vaal had 5 spitters summoned, and if there was a hint of lag or I failed ot move constantly, I was insta killed.  This was after I had switched from evasion armor to armor armor and got rid of necro aegis just so I wouldn't die in one hit to normal enemies.

 

It's too bad too.  With the sphere grid there's a lot of potential, but it's wasted in the way enemies attack and damage you, making defensive nodes 10x better, and minions constantly horrible. 

 

So I wanted to group, but every open group I found was just people scattered about, usually having already completed whatever the group was started for.   And if you can get people together in one spot for a boss kill, they will ninja your loot before you can even run to pick it up. 

 

I never thought I'd praise D3's multiplayer game setup, but at least with it, people would generally be on the same page and everyone have their own loot.  It's too bad the the game in general wasn't like D2.  Imagine getting to just join instantly a cow level or baal run without having to use the lobby.  It would have been sweet.  But oh well. 

 

So I've only played solo, and my char is a glass gimp.  I'll either wait till the game evolves or until I can convince a couple people to play with me.  Tired of taking spitters to the face.  (oh and don't even get me started on the instance reset timers).

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Comments

  • V1kN1kV1kN1k AgarvePosts: 27Member

     before actually saying something about the game play it fella , Investigate use google,read PoE forums watch streams LEARN for gods sake.

    so you are saying minions are bad? 

    at level 52 , I had 7 Zombies with 9000 HP, 8 skeletons with 3k HP each one, 2 specters.

    and I could solo anything anyone anywhere.

    [mod edit]

    The game is totally great its free to play offers a lot of content beautifull graphics awesome gameplay, PVE is just amazing, and community is good . 

    And the last but not the least.

    PoE has no Problems, YOU have problems , you cant become a football player in 1 day, Train for it.

    Good luck

    DMC

  • MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by DiabloLoDFan

     before actually saying something about the game play it fella , Investigate use google,read PoE forums watch streams LEARN for gods sake.

    so you are saying minions are bad? 

    at level 52 , I had 7 Zombies with 9000 HP, 8 skeletons with 3k HP each one, 2 specters.

    and I could solo anything anyone anywhere.

    [mod edit]

    The game is totally great its free to play offers a lot of content beautifull graphics awesome gameplay, PVE is just amazing, and community is good . 

    And the last but not the least.

    PoE has no Problems, YOU have problems , you cant become a football player in 1 day, Train for it.

    Good luck

    Because you disagree with his opinion does not make it any less valid or warrant an offensive response.  I think you are the one with problems here.  

     

     

  • jelliuzjelliuz HarelbekePosts: 46Member Uncommon

    I started a new character today, crit frost witch, lvl30 in 5 hours.

    It's too easy imo , lol. 

  • FonclFoncl UppsalaPosts: 197Member

    I also like to play glass cannon builds with few defensive nodes but I'm aware that it means I can die very easily. You can't have the cake and eait it too, compromices have to be made when building your character and lessons learned from your failures.

    The only problems I've encountered are some desynching and disconnects but it's a beta and they're working on it.

  • karmuskarmus LondonPosts: 7Member

    It doesn't take long to get to level 30, quite easy to do it in 5-6 hours if you play through casually and have a vague idea of what to do, which should definitely be the case for your second character. People in the 3 hour hardcore races have made it to level 30+.

    The game requires you to plan ahead so if you just put your points into the passive tree randomly you will definitely run into trouble later on in the game, and you can expect to die a lot.  This usually becomes evident in cruel and onwards though so you must have really been doing something wrong to be struggling with normal act 2. Seeing as this was your first character though, its understandable as most people end up having to reroll after messing their first character up as they have no idea what they're doing. The key part though is that you learn from your mistakes and then don't make them again with your second character, though you seem perfectly willing to justify your failed first attempt at the game as being down to flaws within the games design, and not the fact that you are clueless with regard to any aspect of the game. And no, minions are not constantly horrible.

    As far as groups go, you can generally tell before you join what stage people are up to by what map they are all currently in. And i'm curious how you came up with this notion of "your loot".  Just because an item has your name on it briefly doesn't make the item automatically belong to you, so no, no one ninja'ed your loot you were just too slow to pick any of it up. 

    Are you saying its too bad diablo 3 or poe isn't more like diablo 2?

    And I can already tell you that your complaints about instance timers are ridiculous, so it is probably for the best that you dont get started.

  • acidbloodacidblood melbournePosts: 265Member Uncommon

    While I agree that some of the end of act bosses (and some random rare mobs) are a bit on the crazy side compared to the regular trash, I wouldn't say it's a big problem, just need to adjust some numbers / redesign the fight. I also agree that the multiplayer setup needs to be better, it's OK with friends... I can only imagine the horrors of PUGing it, but again, this can (and hopefully will) be fixed.

    As far as gimping your character goes... live and learn... I would much rather a game like PoE where you have almost unlimited possibilities but not all of them good, than a game like GW2 where you have about 5 possibilities and all of them boring. Also, I would say minions are somewhere between OK and Overpowered, I have no passive buffs to minions and use zombies with +hp and a spectre, they do a decent job of tanking and support even at level 52 (act 3, second time through).

    Oh and portal scrolls are your friend.. if you think you might die on a level that you don't have a waypoint back to, drop a portal.

     

  • V1kN1kV1kN1k AgarvePosts: 27Member

    MightyChasm

    this person is obviously offending the game saying it has problems, i did not offend anybody, i just said the truth about the statmente this person mentioned, and i've got no patience whatsoever to comment things like that, it lacks everything, the person knows 0 about the game and already sending negative points of view forwarded to it, and your answer  has nothing to do with an actual topic discussion, so please do not get into trouble. PEACE.

    DMC

  • ZooceZooce B, FLPosts: 586Member
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye
    [mod edit]

    They have shifted the build focus to pressure defensive or balanced builds.  I'm not particularly fond of being "encouraged" to stack HP and resistances in the passive tree and on gear, but for most classes that is the case.  Marauder and templars have easy access to elemental resists, witch has decent chaos resist nodes and shitty HP.  If you are thinking about using minions, don't bother unless you take tons of minion passives and support the hell out of them.  Used to be a time when minion builds were fun from start to finish, but now they suck balls until mid game.  Way too much AoE wipeing out the entire minion horde in 2 seconds- shit is just tedious until the passives start stacking up.

     

    I don't care for the lack of loot options either, and agree that D3 had a superior public multiplayer experience.  Some of the skills in PoE cause huge FPS loss especially in multiplayer.

     

    Farthest I've gotten since open beta is end of act 2 cruel.  Keep dying to stupid shit but mostly my fault.  I guess I suck at PoE too, but its still entertaining.

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,969Member Uncommon

    Another case of when a gamer claims they want something different.. and then complain that it's different.

    Games shouldn't adapt to the players, the players should adapt to the game... or they lose the game.

    You can't play soccer with your hands, no matter how much you might want to.

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Originally posted by MightyChasm
    Originally posted by DiabloLoDFan

     before actually saying something about the game play it fella , Investigate use google,read PoE forums watch streams LEARN for gods sake.

    so you are saying minions are bad? 

    at level 52 , I had 7 Zombies with 9000 HP, 8 skeletons with 3k HP each one, 2 specters.

    and I could solo anything anyone anywhere.

    [mod edit]

    The game is totally great its free to play offers a lot of content beautifull graphics awesome gameplay, PVE is just amazing, and community is good . 

    And the last but not the least.

    PoE has no Problems, YOU have problems , you cant become a football player in 1 day, Train for it.

    Good luck

    Because you disagree with his opinion does not make it any less valid or warrant an offensive response.  I think you are the one with problems here.  

     

     

    Actually I didn't see his response as a difference of opinion, but a difference in strategy and experience.  This post was valid and actually had several facts to support his statements, which is more than I can say of much of what I read on forums these days.  Somebody was struggling and immediately blamed the game instead of looking at varying strategies to overcome the obstacle.  The tone might be questionable, but he did support his statements.

     

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • KroxMalonKroxMalon swindonPosts: 409Member
    No I think your problems are to big.
  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Defensive based builds have always been popular in ARPG's. SnB barb anyone? King of D2 imo. If you don't like ARPG mechanics, don't play them, this isn't an MMO where you can be a glass cannon and rely on 5 other people to carry you.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • Superman0XSuperman0X San Jose, CAPosts: 1,577Member Uncommon

    One of the key features/flaws of PoE is that there is no 'best' build... but that also means that you can totally gimp yourself as well. You can spend a lot of time, and many levels to create a character that  is basically useless in combat. Even the best player can not make a truly bad build viable.

     

    Many gamers are used to the 'no mistakes possible" gaming of the last decade. Many modern games prevent the player from making truly bad choices, and in doing so making the game unplayable. This game does not do that. I gives you the freedome to make truly terrible (or awesome) choices, and leave it up to the player to figure out which is which.

  • kjempffkjempff AarhusPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DiabloLoDFan

    at level 52 , I had 7 Zombies with 9000 HP, 8 skeletons with 3k HP each one, 2 specters.

    No you didn't, that is pure bull. And I know because I have one, so don't try and test me. If you have like everything, all the summoner gear, all the nodes, all max quality gems I guess you would have like ~2k hp on zombies.

     

     

  • SuperNickSuperNick CambridgePosts: 460Member

    Any developer that punishes the players for choices designed by them are the ones in the wrong.

    People making excuses to the effect of "learn to choose what's overpowered!!" is just covering up the design balance of a game, which this game has none of.

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

    I don't bother with POE but I have to say, isn't this the type of game the leetists have been wanting for years? where enemies are so difficult they can instakill you? I just thought that's why everyone's been complaining for so long that all the other games are so easy, now you have a game that's as hard as people were wanting it to be (well maybe not if it doesn't have permadeath) and people are complaining about that now. 

    Where are those people btw? I know they're here because they're on the game forums of every other game out here complaining about how easy those games are daily.

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member

    @SuperNick & OP: -hands tissue and a doll- now show us where the nasty game touched you on the doll.

     

    @Everyone: Seriously... this is freaking stupid... I have a glass cannon shadow with very few tanky orbs and I manage just fine, sure I gotta remember to put up a portal whenever I stray to far from a waypoint but them's the breaks, it sure as Hell is worth it though to go crashing through a mob of enemies with a dual wielding blademaster-type build :D (granted you have to crash back out of there in a rapid pace but skill gems allow you to build towards your strength, my glass cannon guy can rip apart bosses quite easily if he can manage to dodge out of any nasty surprises he/she might have which is up to me to do).

     

    That said I've heard the community aspect is shiiiit... but if I ever want to bother with that I'll get some friends to play :D.

    image
  • SuperNickSuperNick CambridgePosts: 460Member
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    @SuperNick & OP: -hands tissue and a doll- now show us where the nasty game touched you on the doll.

     

    @Everyone: Seriously... this is freaking stupid... I have a glass cannon shadow with very few tanky orbs and I manage just fine, sure I gotta remember to put up a portal whenever I stray to far from a waypoint but them's the breaks, it sure as Hell is worth it though to go crashing through a mob of enemies with a dual wielding blademaster-type build :D (granted you have to crash back out of there in a rapid pace but skill gems allow you to build towards your strength, my glass cannon guy can rip apart bosses quite easily if he can manage to dodge out of any nasty surprises he/she might have which is up to me to do).

     

    That said I've heard the community aspect is shiiiit... but if I ever want to bother with that I'll get some friend to play :D.

    Sounds like you really know what you're talking about with your level 15. Balance is just fine folks, there are no aliens. How's that tin foil cap treating you.

    I spotted the whacked out balance after some hours in game and turned it off. It felt like a poor man's Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2. So uh no, the game didn't personally attack me somehow (?)

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,592Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SuperNick

    Any developer that punishes the players for choices designed by them are the ones in the wrong.

    People making excuses to the effect of "learn to choose what's overpowered!!" is just covering up the design balance of a game, which this game has none of.

    Well, thats certainly one perspective... But designing a game, so that there isn't any real chance of making nasty mistakes, while it may be popular in some quarters, is inherently limited.

    Freedom has its consequences. One of those is that you can and will make mistakes, and there will be consequences.  How you deal with those is more a matter of experience and character, than anything else.

    These types of games are famous for their flexibility, and for those experienced with them, infamous for not hand holding their players.  If you don't use common sense, and think things through, you are going to get hammered.

     

  • RyowulfRyowulf Greensburg, PAPosts: 668Member

    In normal mode its fairly easy with most builds to reach 30, but I will say the boss at the end of act 2 is so much more powerful than act one that its easy for a new player to be annoyed at how hard it is to solo.

    Because its so easy and quick to solo at the start its like running into a brick wall when the game throws someone really hard at you.  I think the game could scale better. 

    I would rather have my own loot too. If the game can put my name on it then it shouldn't be to hard to make it only pickable by me.

    Anyway the fun of the game is trying not in how fast you can reach endgame.

  • FuchsiaFuchsia Pennsylvania, PAPosts: 8Member
    Originally posted by adam_nox

    If not, then your fun won't last.  I gimped my char.  I don't play long hours, so it took me a long time to get to 30, and I will wait before starting over.  I went all offense, and even then I don't kill things fast solo, but they kill me fast, including usually 1-shotting my minions. 

     

    This has been sort of my turn-off to the game too.  I don't have a ton of time to spend playing, so if I come up with a bad build for my character it means I have to start over and spend several months to get back to where I was.  The need to spec for more defense isn't an issue to me, but perma-gimp of the character *I think* is a deterrent for similarly minded people.

     

    I think they should keep it how it is for Hardcore, but allow some better way for people in the non-hardcore mode to change their points around easily.  Or add a third mode that allows for it, maybe?

     

    How fun would it be to constantly try new builds and untested combinations?  If we were able to experiement with all types of different play styles until we find one that we absolutely love, I would be totally motivated to max my character out.

     

    To each their own.  I am sure many people love it the way it is, but for me, its no bueno. :(

  • EsuarfeeeeEsuarfeeee cityofangelsPosts: 76Member
    Spoiler Alert:  You only need survivability

    image
  • ZefireZefire lol, CAPosts: 676Member
    Originally posted by adam_nox

    If you have a group of friends to play this with, and are willing to spec defense, you will probably have fun. 

     

    If not, then your fun won't last.  I gimped my char.  I don't play long hours, so it took me a long time to get to 30, and I will wait before starting over.  I went all offense, and even then I don't kill things fast solo, but they kill me fast, including usually 1-shotting my minions. 

     

    I'm so bad I barely made it to act 3, only after starting my own group advertising open portal to vaal.  Vaal had 5 spitters summoned, and if there was a hint of lag or I failed ot move constantly, I was insta killed.  This was after I had switched from evasion armor to armor armor and got rid of necro aegis just so I wouldn't die in one hit to normal enemies.

     

    It's too bad too.  With the sphere grid there's a lot of potential, but it's wasted in the way enemies attack and damage you, making defensive nodes 10x better, and minions constantly horrible. 

     

    So I wanted to group, but every open group I found was just people scattered about, usually having already completed whatever the group was started for.   And if you can get people together in one spot for a boss kill, they will ninja your loot before you can even run to pick it up. 

     

    I never thought I'd praise D3's multiplayer game setup, but at least with it, people would generally be on the same page and everyone have their own loot.  It's too bad the the game in general wasn't like D2.  Imagine getting to just join instantly a cow level or baal run without having to use the lobby.  It would have been sweet.  But oh well. 

     

    So I've only played solo, and my char is a glass gimp.  I'll either wait till the game evolves or until I can convince a couple people to play with me.  Tired of taking spitters to the face.  (oh and don't even get me started on the instance reset timers).

    From what you say looks like you are a victim of the simplified games that are releasing the last 10 years.

    Your brain became rusty because you got used to simple games that does not require you to think or search or use your imagination.

    Thus you come into a game that has mechanics like games used to have 10 years ago.A game that requires from the player to actually think for the best result.

    After you played the game you realised that you cant make it because you have lost all of your abilities to think,imagine prepare for the worst etc etc.

    Then you come to the forums to say that this game is difficult and other crapy things.

    Guess what stop playing games that are simple and try to play games that requires you to put that fucking brain of yours into a working state rather than just clicking with the mouse and someday you will thank me for this.

     

  • SuperNickSuperNick CambridgePosts: 460Member
    Originally posted by Wraithone
    Originally posted by SuperNick

    Any developer that punishes the players for choices designed by them are the ones in the wrong.

    People making excuses to the effect of "learn to choose what's overpowered!!" is just covering up the design balance of a game, which this game has none of.

    Well, thats certainly one perspective... But designing a game, so that there isn't any real chance of making nasty mistakes, while it may be popular in some quarters, is inherently limited.

    Freedom has its consequences. One of those is that you can and will make mistakes, and there will be consequences.  How you deal with those is more a matter of experience and character, than anything else.

    These types of games are famous for their flexibility, and for those experienced with them, infamous for not hand holding their players.  If you don't use common sense, and think things through, you are going to get hammered.

     

    I read an article about this once and I believe it was called "the illusion of choice". The short version is that you can choose to include 100 skills or 10 skills in your game. In the 100 version, players will believe they have a huge choice but eventually everyone will come to the conclusion only 10 are useful, and use them. If you go with the 10 skill version, people will complain about there being too little choice but you won't have to suffer player loss as a result of people ignoring the trends and trying to get those other 90 skills to work.

    Basically it boiled down to customer retention - if you present a system to people where they have to navigate a trial-and-error minefield of underpowered systems, there are very select few which will find this entertaining (aka your hardcore players), the rest will simply disappear without a whisper.

    I realize balance is not the easiest thing to strike in a game like this, or any game for that fact but in this day and age you'd think it would be one of the primary agendas in development. Even Blizzard are guilty of screwing the Witch-doctor and monk over, which to my knowledge are still in a state of "meh" comparatively.

    Sure, no one wants a game to hold their hand and remove all sense of challenge but trial-and-error choice until you end up with the strongest spec is akin to an FPS game saying their game is hard because AI one shots you every time it sees you; cheap is the word there.

  • TsumoroTsumoro EozeaPosts: 408Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by adam_nox

    If you have a group of friends to play this with, and are willing to spec defense, you will probably have fun. 

     

    If not, then your fun won't last.  I gimped my char.  I don't play long hours, so it took me a long time to get to 30, and I will wait before starting over.  I went all offense, and even then I don't kill things fast solo, but they kill me fast, including usually 1-shotting my minions. 

     

    I'm so bad I barely made it to act 3, only after starting my own group advertising open portal to vaal.  Vaal had 5 spitters summoned, and if there was a hint of lag or I failed ot move constantly, I was insta killed.  This was after I had switched from evasion armor to armor armor and got rid of necro aegis just so I wouldn't die in one hit to normal enemies.

     

    It's too bad too.  With the sphere grid there's a lot of potential, but it's wasted in the way enemies attack and damage you, making defensive nodes 10x better, and minions constantly horrible. 

     

    So I wanted to group, but every open group I found was just people scattered about, usually having already completed whatever the group was started for.   And if you can get people together in one spot for a boss kill, they will ninja your loot before you can even run to pick it up. 

     

    I never thought I'd praise D3's multiplayer game setup, but at least with it, people would generally be on the same page and everyone have their own loot.  It's too bad the the game in general wasn't like D2.  Imagine getting to just join instantly a cow level or baal run without having to use the lobby.  It would have been sweet.  But oh well. 

     

    So I've only played solo, and my char is a glass gimp.  I'll either wait till the game evolves or until I can convince a couple people to play with me.  Tired of taking spitters to the face.  (oh and don't even get me started on the instance reset timers).

    I feel for you I really do, but I don't think this is a problem with the game. Its working as its intended. The thing is, if you have played other ARPG's like Diablo or Torchlight you might have fallen down the 'expectation trap'. That is because the games work differently. 

    With Torchlight and Diablo, you essentially play the game, level up and with their limited builds in place no matter the options you pick you can't really 'gimp' your character. You are able to change things around and progress. This is to push through the game and reach the conclusion of the story and perhaps, if you are interested push into NG+ or the next difficulty etc. 

    Path of Exile is differen't. It is a challenge based game. The idea and premise about the game (which for me as been pretty apparent from all the media about the game released) is that you take this massive build tree, skills, gear and flasks and make a build to push as FAR as you can take it. The idea is to make interesting builds and keep plugging away as far as you can. Reaching the level cap of 100 is not the objective, its to push yourself further and further. 

    Now, for me I made a ranger and wanted to make a glass cannon (much like how you did) and found that I got to around act 3 doing the very first mission whihc I think was the lovers one and I was getting my ass handed to me. So much so I decided to start again. I therefore made a Marauder and tried to make my own build, taking away what I thought would be the norm cookie cutter like build and started to think how I wanted to play, what skills, what weapons etc etc. I pushed harder and harder and I was happy with the results. 

    During this play I got myself some nice loot, stuff I put into my bank. Then when I re-visited my ranger build I found that the gear was very viable for the build I had made, I repceed 2 points, moved a passive around and changed a skill gem and hey presto I was able to push further with my ranger. 

    Its what I love about this game, it have a lot of personality to it. 

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