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The amount of poisonous hate...

BlackHopperBlackHopper kaflsaknfPosts: 2Member

... that people have for this game is an odd phenomenon.

The old saying "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" comes to mind, but updated to "Hell hath no fury like a guy whos favorite videogame took a direction he was no comfortable with; you'll find him on the forums... every day."

I've never tried DF1, and was looking for a game like Ultima Online. I found DFUW and so far my first impression has been pretty good. Pretty much only one negative experience so far with part of the tutorial that required my buddy to skin a mob we killed, which took about 15 min before it finally succeeded. Other than that sometimes I think the people spewing hate is playing a different game than I am. I've experienced no bugs or crashes.

Now some people say there is a grind in the game, and that might be true depending on how you define grind. Personally I define it as being forced to do an action over and over again, without options doing other things. Basically I define grind as: Being forced to do stuff I don't want ot do.

A bit of playtime yesterday went like this:

Being pretty new to the game I set my guy in wood-chopping-mode while I asked some questions in the chat. I got mostly positive responses from that; but you can't escape the occasional sociopath - they are in every MMO.

When I was done I noticed my mount had been stolen, lol (I actually love you can do that).

Learned my lesson and went to kill zombies to get enough gold to craft a new one. Killed a ton of them, probably 100+. Some of them were tougher than others, and the AI seems different than other MMOs. Went back and crafted a new mount after that.

Then my buddy came online and we rode out into the world. Came across a goblin village which we chose to attack. Killed a bunch of goblins, got some more gold, was almost exploded a few times by goblin shamans (down to <10hp).

At no point did it feel like a grind. The game didn't INSIST that I do something over and over again, it was all my own decisions.

Now in regards to AV as a company I have little experience with them. But I know it is staffed by people. Real people and not robots. People who can be motivated/demotivated. All the hate that is coming in their direction has gotta be demotivating. I hope this doesn't turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy in regards to the game being bad BECAUSE of all the hate.

All I've seen so far is a company trying to make a game, but continually being punished for it, just because its not exactly like DF1. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, and maybe I'll change my mind about the company later. But all the forum warriors spewing hate, day after day, sometimes makes me wonder if they even remember why they are so pissed constantly. If AV made mistakes in the past, move on and allow them to grow.

Being negative all the time is the easy way out. Real men try to see things from the positive, and if that fails, move on.

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Comments

  • DarkfallFanaticDarkfallFanatic Lake Moho, INPosts: 96Member

    Well of course you didn't have to grind if you want to raid goblin villages with your buddy and make mounts. But any time you come across another player you WILL get rolled because you have inferior gear and your transfers aren't macro'd to 100, or your sword skill isn't 100, or your dex isn't 150. 

     

    I dunno I hope everything changes at launch but as it stands hell 50% of the roles and classes are even missing...

     

    I would macro too if it wasn't beta. Hell I would probably play the game for the grind as well. But doing it knowing a wipe will come is simply ridiculous. Makes me sorry for the poor souls farming ore every day which is the most boring thing I have ever done in any MMO. They could be having fun, but instead they choose to not have fun in order to have fun later. 

     

    AV logic.

     

    for comparison Im currently playing Age of Wushu and it solves most of the grind. Its actually semi fun to farm. For example when you hit ore it takes like 3-4 secs and you get 2-6 a hit. It takes maybe 10 minutes to gather enough to craft with. Furthermore the rare ore locations are sometimes in tricky spots so you have to climb your way up platform style which is cool. 

     

    The same amount of mats in DFUW would probably  take an hour of AFK hitting nodes to gather. 

  • tokinitokini third hut on the leftPosts: 341Member Common
    Originally posted by BlackHopper

    ... that people have for this game is an odd phenomenon.

    The old saying "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" comes to mind, but updated to "Hell hath no fury like a guy whos favorite videogame took a direction he was no comfortable with; you'll find him on the forums... every day."

    I've never tried DF1, and was looking for a game like Ultima Online. I found DFUW and so far my first impression has been pretty good. Pretty much only one negative experience so far with part of the tutorial that required my buddy to skin a mob we killed, which took about 15 min before it finally succeeded. Other than that sometimes I think the people spewing hate is playing a different game than I am. I've experienced no bugs or crashes.

    Now some people say there is a grind in the game, and that might be true depending on how you define grind. Personally I define it as being forced to do an action over and over again, without options doing other things. Basically I define grind as: Being forced to do stuff I don't want ot do.

    A bit of playtime yesterday went like this:

    Being pretty new to the game I set my guy in wood-chopping-mode while I asked some questions in the chat. I got mostly positive responses from that; but you can't escape the occasional sociopath - they are in every MMO.

    When I was done I noticed my mount had been stolen, lol (I actually love you can do that).

    Learned my lesson and went to kill zombies to get enough gold to craft a new one. Killed a ton of them, probably 100+. Some of them were tougher than others, and the AI seems different than other MMOs. Went back and crafted a new mount after that.

    Then my buddy came online and we rode out into the world. Came across a goblin village which we chose to attack. Killed a bunch of goblins, got some more gold, was almost exploded a few times by goblin shamans (down to <10hp).

    At no point did it feel like a grind. The game didn't INSIST that I do something over and over again, it was all my own decisions.

    Now in regards to AV as a company I have little experience with them. But I know it is staffed by people. Real people and not robots. People who can be motivated/demotivated. All the hate that is coming in their direction has gotta be demotivating. I hope this doesn't turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy in regards to the game being bad BECAUSE of all the hate.

    All I've seen so far is a company trying to make a game, but continually being punished for it, just because its not exactly like DF1. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, and maybe I'll change my mind about the company later. But all the forum warriors spewing hate, day after day, sometimes makes me wonder if they even remember why they are so pissed constantly. If AV made mistakes in the past, move on and allow them to grow.

    Being negative all the time is the easy way out. Real men try to see things from the positive, and if that fails, move on.

    hi tasos

  • TruthXHurtsTruthXHurts El Do, KSPosts: 1,555Member
    Played DFUW, and didn't enjoy it. Felt dumbed down. If I had really given a crap about the game in the first place it would have felt like NGE all over to me. It's something to play I suppose for the WoW kids to run araound and bash eachother. I just subbed to Mortal Online, and besides it's long list of problems I enjoy it much more.

    "I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  • BlackHopperBlackHopper kaflsaknfPosts: 2Member
    Originally posted by DarkfallFanatic

    Well of course you didn't have to grind if you want to raid goblin villages with your buddy and make mounts. But any time you come across another player you WILL get rolled because you have inferior gear and your transfers aren't macro'd to 100, or your sword skill isn't 100, or your dex isn't 150. 

     

    I dunno I hope everything changes at launch but as it stands hell 50% of the roles and classes are even missing...

     

    I would macro too if it wasn't beta. Hell I would probably play the game for the grind as well. But doing it knowing a wipe will come is simply ridiculous. Makes me sorry for the poor souls farming ore every day which is the most boring thing I have ever done in any MMO. They could be having fun, but instead they choose to not have fun in order to have fun later. 

     

    AV logic.

     

    for comparison Im currently playing Age of Wushu and it solves most of the grind. Its actually semi fun to farm. For example when you hit ore it takes like 3-4 secs and you get 2-6 a hit. It takes maybe 10 minutes to gather enough to craft with. Furthermore the rare ore locations are sometimes in tricky spots so you have to climb your way up platform style which is cool. 

     

    The same amount of mats in DFUW would probably  take an hour of AFK hitting nodes to gather. 

    Yeah macroing might be a problem, but its a fixable one. Beta is beta.

    Dont get me wrong, I'm not some carebear who never touches pvp. In fact I'm extremely competitive. But, my current objective is just to experience what the game throws at me. I'm not going to gather a lot of resources because of the future wipe.

    AV should definately look to solve the macroing problem.

  • stuxstux Lake Forest, ILPosts: 462Member

     

    If you can't stand the heat get of the kitchen!

     

    In other words, if you can't take critisism, meanly put or not, don't put yourself in a position were you are going to recve it.

     

    They can simply ignore the poorly written criticism or not read the feedback at all.  But if they don't succeed they are going to be forced to ask people:

     

    Why do you dislike my product?

     

    If someone is selling a product  and can't take the answers to that question then how can the succeed when they are failing?

  • stuxstux Lake Forest, ILPosts: 462Member
    Originally posted by BlackHopper
    Originally posted by DarkfallFanatic

    Well of course you didn't have to grind if you want to raid goblin villages with your buddy and make mounts. But any time you come across another player you WILL get rolled because you have inferior gear and your transfers aren't macro'd to 100, or your sword skill isn't 100, or your dex isn't 150. 

     

    I dunno I hope everything changes at launch but as it stands hell 50% of the roles and classes are even missing...

     

    I would macro too if it wasn't beta. Hell I would probably play the game for the grind as well. But doing it knowing a wipe will come is simply ridiculous. Makes me sorry for the poor souls farming ore every day which is the most boring thing I have ever done in any MMO. They could be having fun, but instead they choose to not have fun in order to have fun later. 

     

    AV logic.

     

    for comparison Im currently playing Age of Wushu and it solves most of the grind. Its actually semi fun to farm. For example when you hit ore it takes like 3-4 secs and you get 2-6 a hit. It takes maybe 10 minutes to gather enough to craft with. Furthermore the rare ore locations are sometimes in tricky spots so you have to climb your way up platform style which is cool. 

     

    The same amount of mats in DFUW would probably  take an hour of AFK hitting nodes to gather. 

    Yeah macroing might be a problem, but its a fixable one. Beta is beta.

    Dont get me wrong, I'm not some carebear who never touches pvp. In fact I'm extremely competitive. But, my current objective is just to experience what the game throws at me. I'm not going to gather a lot of resources because of the future wipe.

    AV should definately look to solve the macroing problem.

    AV never learned from the first game.

     

    They never got it right until they were shutting the server down.

     

    Then they screwed it up again in this game.

  • ZoltosZoltos Brøndby StrandPosts: 55Member Uncommon

    The game has it´s haters, but alot of the people liking the game aren´t even on the forum. Heck most of the haters are playing the game every day. They just love to troll and rage... If they didn´t like the game why waste so much time on the forums?? Just move on to annother game!

    I really enjoy the Beta atm. After they fixed the persistence bug and imrpoved performance it´s really playable. I had 2 great years playing DF 1.0 and Im sure when DFUW releases  it will be good times again.

    Aventurine did cause most of the hate against them back in DF 1.0. With lack of comunication and lack of patches/fixes etc. But they have become alot better with the communication and patching. So im hopefull for the future of Darkfall.

    Games Played: Anarchy Online,Star Wars Galaxies,WOW,Eve,Darkfall,Vanguard, Fallen Earth,SWTOR,GW2,Tera,ESO,Wildstar & Archeage.
    Now playing: Archeage & WOW
    Games looking forward to: Albion Online!

  • xzyaxxzyax Fargo, NDPosts: 2,459Member
    Originally posted by BlackHopper

    ...

    Now in regards to AV as a company I have little experience with them. But I know it is staffed by people. Real people and not robots. People who can be motivated/demotivated. All the hate that is coming in their direction has gotta be demotivating. I hope this doesn't turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy in regards to the game being bad BECAUSE of all the hate.

    All I've seen so far is a company trying to make a game, but continually being punished for it, just because its not exactly like DF1. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, and maybe I'll change my mind about the company later. But all the forum warriors spewing hate, day after day, sometimes makes me wonder if they even remember why they are so pissed constantly. If AV made mistakes in the past, move on and allow them to grow.

    Being negative all the time is the easy way out. Real men try to see things from the positive, and if that fails, move on.

    Your opinion will change... give it a month or two.

     

    There are a fair number of us who are not "punishing" AV because DF:UW is not exactly like DF1... it is because they continue to lie and make the exact same mistakes as they did the first time around.

    There would be a lot less animosity towards Tasos and Aventurine if they would just simply tell the truth for once.  But, no matter how many times it is said; it seems like players such as yourself have to experience it for yourself... so have at it.

     

    Good Luck!  image

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon

    This game has always had a culture of hostility and 'hate'... from the toxic enviroment that was 'Forumfall' (this was back then, not sure how it is now...) to the pitched wars here that we saw throughout it's development. It has always attracted the alienated and angry. It dosen't take much to shift someone that games with this worldview into your worst enemy, especially if that person thinks you are 'selling them out' for a broader market.

     

    Not saying all players of DF fit this bill, I know they don't, I have met some great ones, but... a lot of them seem to.

  • Aragon100Aragon100 OsloPosts: 2,224Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zoltos

    The game has it´s haters, but alot of the people liking the game aren´t even on the forum. Heck most of the haters are playing the game every day. They just love to troll and rage... If they didn´t like the game why waste so much time on the forums?? Just move on to annother game!

    I really enjoy the Beta atm. After they fixed the persistence bug and imrpoved performance it´s really playable. I had 2 great years playing DF 1.0 and Im sure when DFUW releases  it will be good times again.

    Aventurine did cause most of the hate against them back in DF 1.0. With lack of comunication and lack of patches/fixes etc. But they have become alot better with the communication and patching. So im hopefull for the future of Darkfall.

    I like the "vision" of the game and bought DFUW. Lets hope it become better with alot more content. 

    And i dont agree with today players claiming some here on this site "hate" without cause. Just accept you dont have the same experience as some of us have.

    Aventurine did a poor job with DF1 and let many guilds suffer cause they just didnt care about exploiting/macroing and duping. DF1 was a game for cheaters, exploiters and dupers. Then add a company very close of being corrupt holding hands with these cheaters and you get a game bound for doom. Noone in their right mind continues to compete in a competitive game under such circumstances. This is also my biggest fear with DFUW.

    I just dont trust Aventurine after what happened in DF1.

  • TigerDriverTigerDriver portland, PAPosts: 43Member
    Loving the players trying to talk like they have any clue.

    There are more duplicate exploits in dfuw then DF1 ever had going back to df1 beta. The negative vib is from the never ending stream of lies from AV. These guys never learn.
  • RingsideRingside joliette, QCPosts: 230Member
    I realy liked the way we could heal ourselve in DF with transfers whichbrew ans heal self + potion
     
    Ok with the stamina bug this was a little exagerated healing power  but next patch they are nerfing transfers big time and transfers wont give more stats than what they cost .... :(
  • zomard100zomard100 karlovacPosts: 228Member
    Woot? You craft mounts??? How? Are they from flesh or mechanical?  If they are from flesh i don't want to know how you do it :)
  • ThaneSolusThaneSolus BucharestPosts: 32Member

    its hate and love relation, at least for some of us.

     

    We loved the game, but the developers are the most incompetent bunch i saw so far. At some poin in the game they were videos with huge guilds macroing in their cities, they did nothing... The let everybody macro their skills up. And now they come with a pop-a-mole dumb down DF...

  • sakkdaddysakkdaddy SandnesPosts: 45Member
    Originally posted by stux
    Originally posted by BlackHopper
    ...

    ...

    AV never learned from the first game.

     

    They never got it right until they were shutting the server down.

     

    Then they screwed it up again in this game.

     

    Yep. Character progression remains highly fucked and they don't even acknowledge the issue. The only way that they can salvage this mess is at minimum, to:

    1. Front-load skill gains so that someone with 50% of max skill does ~80% of the damage as someone with maxed skill. This worked well for HP in DF1, and the same approach should be applied for all skills.

    2. Remove skill gains from players and mounts. AFK macroing as the end-all-be-all of character progression sucks. If you don't do it, you will get steamrolled by people who do.

    3. Fix buggy AI that allows exploitive skill gains on mobs. If mobs can be bugged and skills macro'd up on them, then the people who do it will have huge advantages over people who don't.

     

    Just doing #1 makes #2 and #3 less necessary, but all 3 need to be handled.

  • wartyxwtwartyxwt margatePosts: 172Member
    Hello, please repost here in 1 months time.
  • loveForMmosloveForMmos Kessel-LoPosts: 11Member

    Some will love it, some will hate it.

     

    But i feel like,

     

    if you hate it it is better to play another game then to keep on being so negative..

     

    just let the people that like it, enjoy it

     

    is there anything wrong in a game you do not like?

     

    those games will always be there and they make you love the games you like even more

     

    so we need games we do not like to exist in order to like other games

     

    so please: peace!

     

    loveformmos

  • Aragon100Aragon100 OsloPosts: 2,224Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by loveForMmos

    Some will love it, some will hate it.

     

    But i feel like,

     

    if you hate it it is better to play another game then to keep on being so negative..

     

    just let the people that like it, enjoy it

     

    is there anything wrong in a game you do not like?

     

    those games will always be there and they make you love the games you like even more

     

    so we need games we do not like to exist in order to like other games

     

    so please: peace!

     

    loveformmos

    Players need to be informed how developers run this game. You call it hate i call it information.

  • marcustmarcust AdelaidePosts: 467Member Uncommon

    If the game continues to attract more people like the OP then it will succeed.

     

    There will always be 2 types of people in Darkfall

    1. I WANT MY END GAME PVP AND I WANT IT NOW, I want to macro because I dont have time to really play

    and

    2. People who want a game where there is a risk involved in pve, and has good pvp

     

    Most of the noise comes from group 1.

     

     

    Playing: ESO, Submerged
    Favourite games have been: UO, Lineage2, WoW, Darkfall, Lotro, GW2

  • BlindchanceBlindchance WhywouldyouliketoknowPosts: 1,081Member
    Originally posted by marcust

    If the game continues to attract more people like the OP then it will succeed.

     

    There will always be 2 types of people in Darkfall

    1. I WANT MY END GAME PVP AND I WANT IT NOW, I want to macro because I dont have time to really play

    and

    2. People who want a game where there is a risk involved in pve, and has good pvp

     

    Most of the noise comes from group 1.

     

     

    There is no reason today for grind and skill gap between players. The problem is that AV has no other content apart of grind and monotous pvp to offer.

    What DF: UW has to offer DF didn't have ? Revamped skill and class system ? Slightly better graphics ? DIfferent city and mob spawn placements ? Anything else ? I highly doubt it as Tasos would use it in the marketing campaign already.

    AV has no idea about game design and making their game fun for more then few hardcore, basement dwellers.

  • nuclearpingnuclearping BerlinPosts: 15Member
    Originally posted by marcust

    If the game continues to attract more people like the OP then it will succeed.

    Attracting people to the game was never a problem. DF1 sold 150k copies, DF1 launch the server was bursting at the seams, you had people everywhere, at every mob spawn, at every time of the day, even though the Agon of DF1 was HUGE.

     

    1/2 year later and the game was already dead. Why? One simple answer: Aventurine

     

    They didn't pull a single finger in DF1 and watched the game die. They never enforced their TOS, they never banned people for mass-exploiting like Acid Pool Parties, Rigormyds, Blood Walls, AFK-macroing. And I even never heard of anyone got banned for exploiting Mobs.

    It took them more than 1 year to finally fix the insane OP magic and to "slightly" increase the skill gains. And at this time it was already way too late.

     

    Now watching DF:UW and how AV handles it, I can tell you: DF:UW will go the same way DF1 did. Why? Because of Aventurine. 2 months into beta and the majority of players already turned away from the game because it just isn't fun.

    If it would be captivating and addicting people would play no matter of Beta and wipe or not. But it isn't captivating. Balancing is more than terrible, Combat is so dumbed down (Wobble Rng, Transfers nerf, ...) and AV is once again not giving a single serious sh*t for community feedback.

     

    It's like AV planned to make the worst possible MMO.

  • asdarasdar Tequesta, FLPosts: 662Member Uncommon

    I can't understand the hate. I understand someone looking at the game and deciding it's not for them.

    It's got:

    Aim to attack instead of tab target
    Really good boats
    city building and nation building
    It's got a good mix of magic, archery and melee
    crafting is important
    The world really is open, pick a direction and go a long way before you ever run into something you can't climb or swim across.
    Mounts are great


    was it perfect? It was not nearly so, but I don't find any game that even touches it overall and I've played a lot of them.

    Even if you disliked Darkfall the way that I dislike theme park MMO's with floating exclamation points and narrow zone passages that lead you from one boring mob to the next I can't understand why you'd have hate.

    I don't hate GW2 even though I played to 2 max characters and never found anything as fun or challenging as the starter goblins in Darkfall. I would never go and trash the game the way people trash Darkfall. It's just not for me, that doesn't make it a bad game.

    Asdar

  • acesdown31acesdown31 Boise, IDPosts: 8Member
    Originally posted by asdar

    I can't understand the hate. I understand someone looking at the game and deciding it's not for them.

    It's got:

    Aim to attack instead of tab target
    Really good boats
    city building and nation building
    It's got a good mix of magic, archery and melee
    crafting is important
    The world really is open, pick a direction and go a long way before you ever run into something you can't climb or swim across.
    Mounts are great


    was it perfect? It was not nearly so, but I don't find any game that even touches it overall and I've played a lot of them.

    Even if you disliked Darkfall the way that I dislike theme park MMO's with floating exclamation points and narrow zone passages that lead you from one boring mob to the next I can't understand why you'd have hate.

    I don't hate GW2 even though I played to 2 max characters and never found anything as fun or challenging as the starter goblins in Darkfall. I would never go and trash the game the way people trash Darkfall. It's just not for me, that doesn't make it a bad game.

    this!

  • Mad+DogMad+Dog EdinburghPosts: 656Member Uncommon

    Think you need to go update your self, YOU CANT MACRO ANYMORE!!!!

     

    I'll say it again, YOU CANT MACRO ANYMORE ITS CHANGED!!!!!!!!!!!

     

    Did you you get that?

    image
  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn belleville, ILPosts: 1,705Member Uncommon

    it's really not.  Every game that comes out has it.  People thrive on bashing games that they don't intend to play, or perceive some slight against them.

     

    Definitely not out of the ordinary.  

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

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