Every time a new western mmo comes out they would brag that its innovative and new,
but makes no mention that koreans have been doing it for years.. a full blown console level real time action game like tera has been around forever and nothing in the west has come close in terms of gameplay and style of action..
yet games like guildwars and ESO start bragging about its dated combat.. I remember SWTOR bragging the crap out of its amazing innovative combat system.. when you actually see the game its the same point and click crap...
Why dont they look at the competition and see that they are inferior.. look at a kiddy mmo like dragon nest and watch a pvp battle and tell me what in the west matches that? its real time action with every action conducted by the crosshair aiming.. no auto aim crap....
Do western devs need a reality check? they are way behind in innovation/ style/ gamplay.. sure theres shitty korean games but there are amazing ones and they outnumber western games by alot
the player - character relationship is a concept you seem to have no knowledge of.
Why must the player aim when the character is the one on the battlefield ?
You just summed up what is wrong with all modern MMORPGs. The invasion of the "I'm a pro gamer with skillz!" set that have slowly turned virtual worlds into virtual arenas, completely removing the RPG aspect. Here's hoping the resurgence of the sandbox will herald the return of character-driven play.
This.
Tera is a terrible MMO with little RPG value and depth. The combat is fun for a little while but it it is not an attention keeper.
doesn't matter if a game sucks or not, the topic is western devs bragging about whats already been done, and done better... anyone who loves auto aim is apitomey of a lazy gamer who loves dice rolls and nothing more.
fps are exitcing because its action.. imagine how shitty teh game would be if call of duty was auto aim? the only reason we have auto anything is because of the limites of the internet..
Then go play a real FPS? Or a MMOFPS, there are plenty of them out there now.
RPGs have always been about dice rolls, lore and character building. If you don't like that then you are in the wrong genre.
For TERA to even consider it self an aciton combat oriented mmo is laughable at best. From what I've noticed, it seems to be the entry into aciton combat for all the previous "WoW was my first mmo" group.
real time strategy is completely different from real -time action , like zelda, gow , dmc.. etc... thats where im getting at
Pretty much 95% of MMOs are 'real time'. Real time just means its not turn based. EQ, WoW, Rift, TSW, GW2.... they are all 'real time'.
Targetting is not exclusively 'real time'. If you want an exclusive term for it - its reticle based combat, or FPS combat.
'Action combat' could mean anything, but usually refers to combat which doesn't lock you in place, or involves movement skills such as knockbacks and dodges.
real time strategy is completely different from real -time action , like zelda, gow , dmc.. etc... thats where im getting at
Pretty much 95% of MMOs are 'real time'. Real time just means its not turn based. EQ, WoW, Rift, TSW, GW2.... they are all 'real time'.
Targetting is not exclusively 'real time'. If you want an exclusive term for it - its reticle based combat, or FPS combat.
'Action combat' could mean anything, but usually refers to combat which doesn't lock you in place, or involves movement skills such as knockbacks and dodges.
actualy the standard point adn click 95% your talking about is more like and active turn base, you just dont see it but its all just dice rolls, like ffx , it just looks like real time or quasi real time
when people say action, like how tera used it, it usually means GOW/zelda/ darksiders/ DMC type combat
real time strategy is completely different from real -time action , like zelda, gow , dmc.. etc... thats where im getting at
Pretty much 95% of MMOs are 'real time'. Real time just means its not turn based. EQ, WoW, Rift, TSW, GW2.... they are all 'real time'.
Targetting is not exclusively 'real time'. If you want an exclusive term for it - its reticle based combat, or FPS combat.
'Action combat' could mean anything, but usually refers to combat which doesn't lock you in place, or involves movement skills such as knockbacks and dodges.
actualy the standard point adn click 95% your talking about is more like and active turn base, you just dont see it but its all just dice rolls, like ffx , it just looks like real time or quasi real time
when people say action, like how tera used it, it usually means GOW/zelda/ darksiders/ DMC type combat
No, they are nothing like turn based. Because everything done is in real time. You dont take turns. It isnt a difficult concept to handle. How quickly you attack is based on stats such as attack speed and cast speed, and whenever you decide to cast them, which isnt based on turns at all.
Not really regarding action combat either, people refer to GW2, TSW, Vindictus and many other tab target games as action as well, because they involve dodging and moving while casting. Has nothing to do with reticle / aim based combat.
For TERA to even consider it self an aciton combat oriented mmo is laughable at best. From what I've noticed, it seems to be the entry into aciton combat for all the previous "WoW was my first mmo" group.
but makes no mention that koreans have been doing it for years.. a full blown console level real time action game like tera has been around forever and nothing in the west has come close in terms of gameplay and style of action..
yet games like guildwars and ESO start bragging about its dated combat.. I remember SWTOR bragging the crap out of its amazing innovative combat system.. when you actually see the game its the same point and click crap...
Why dont they look at the competition and see that they are inferior.. look at a kiddy mmo like dragon nest and watch a pvp battle and tell me what in the west matches that? its real time action with every action conducted by the crosshair aiming.. no auto aim crap....
Do western devs need a reality check? they are way behind in innovation/ style/ gamplay.. sure theres shitty korean games but there are amazing ones and they outnumber western games by alot
full blown console level action game like Tera?
if the combat in Tera was like Bayonetta or God of War, then yes you could call it full blown real time action combat. Teras melee combat is slow and heavily locked with long animations, you cant jump and make diving attacks like a real action combat does.... you can not freely evade while making a fast chain combo like real action combat does, instead you are stuck with a heavy trinity system where you have 1 evade skill stricted to a couple of classes, the rest just tank because they cant evade.
Combat in GW2 is not necesarily tab target, i have never used tab or click to target in GW2.... ever! and combat feels a lot faster and more free than Tera cos it doesnt have animation lock when chaining attacks.
I agree with swtor combat, its just wow combat with light sabers (which is not bad because thats what the game is).
I havent played enough Dragons Nest to talk about it, but i know its a cartoony game with the same gameplay as Vindictus and C9. great combat but bad gameplay due to the repetitive and boring non persistent open world.
I love the way New asian mmos are heading with amazing graphics and even better combat than the slow and locked combat Tera has. But good graphics and action combat is not enough for an mmo to be good (EnMasse and bluehole learned that the hard way with Tera). If Tera had dynamic questing i bet they were not going F2P this soon. Grinding quest is much better than grinding mobs directly, but its still a horrible way to make progression..... in 2013. Hopefully NCsoft adds dynamic questing to Blade and Soul because the korean beta was as grindy as Tera and that is not going to cut it.
Ill be playing Tera F2P for some time with a gamepad which feels better for its combat, but i know the quest grinding wont change at all. Sadly.
4. Crosshair = action. Crosshair (if implemented correctly) ultimately means non-target, so by that very nature you have to be more visceral in determining and executing your attacks. Fast paced ALSO = action, but it just sets the tempo and not necessarily defines action.
Crosshair may equal action, but IMHO action combat = FPS not RPG.
Having a developer label their game "action combat" and/or FFA PvP is enough to cross it of my list of potential games to play.
I am far from alone in this. Yes the console kids want console style combat, BAMF animation, silly armor styles and lots of breasts.
4. Crosshair = action. Crosshair (if implemented correctly) ultimately means non-target, so by that very nature you have to be more visceral in determining and executing your attacks. Fast paced ALSO = action, but it just sets the tempo and not necessarily defines action.
Crosshair may equal action, but IMHO action combat = FPS not RPG.
Having a developer label their game "action combat" and/or FFA PvP is enough to cross it of my list of potential games to play.
I am far from alone in this. Yes the console kids want console style combat, BAMF animation, silly armor styles and lots of breasts.
True MMO players want other things entirely.
sure i understand, even when we have super fast internet true mmo players want a spreadsheet combat that determines if you blocked or not or hit someone with a projectile...
console kids? putting down consoles action games becuase you love auto attack/ point and click? what amazing mmo are you playing? i bet its a point and clicker
People will play and love it when mmos play like dark souls or dragons dogma.. it will be amazing and make wow type games look ancient and outdated.. which they already are.. and koreans are inching much closer to it then western devs ever will...
4. Crosshair = action. Crosshair (if implemented correctly) ultimately means non-target, so by that very nature you have to be more visceral in determining and executing your attacks. Fast paced ALSO = action, but it just sets the tempo and not necessarily defines action.
Crosshair may equal action, but IMHO action combat = FPS not RPG.
Having a developer label their game "action combat" and/or FFA PvP is enough to cross it of my list of potential games to play.
I am far from alone in this. Yes the console kids want console style combat, BAMF animation, silly armor styles and lots of breasts.
True MMO players want other things entirely.
sure i understand, even when we have super fast internet true mmo players want a spreadsheet combat that determines if you blocked or not or hit someone with a projectile...
console kids? putting down consoles action games becuase you love auto attack/ point and click? what amazing mmo are you playing? i bet its a point and clicker
People will play and love it when mmos play like dark souls or dragons dogma.. it will be amazing and make wow type games look ancient and outdated.. which they already are.. and koreans are inching much closer to it then western devs ever will...
ROFLMAO, no
I play a character in a fantasy world. That character has skills, agility and training. I do not.
Action style combat is designed for people who want to get some kudos for being better than the next guy at hitting little buttons or rattling a mouse. It is a console generation view of "how games should be", not everyone that has played a console has that attitude, but not one of those that never have and loath consoles like this idea.
As for kids, it you are under 40 you are a kid from my perspective, under 25 a child.
Do not get me wrong however. The curent MMORPG combat system could certainly do with improvements as could a lot of other aspects of game play. Its just that console style combat is not an improvement just a tacked on addition that provides an alternative that I regard as much worse than the original.
4. Crosshair = action. Crosshair (if implemented correctly) ultimately means non-target, so by that very nature you have to be more visceral in determining and executing your attacks. Fast paced ALSO = action, but it just sets the tempo and not necessarily defines action.
Crosshair may equal action, but IMHO action combat = FPS not RPG.
Having a developer label their game "action combat" and/or FFA PvP is enough to cross it of my list of potential games to play.
I am far from alone in this. Yes the console kids want console style combat, BAMF animation, silly armor styles and lots of breasts.
True MMO players want other things entirely.
sure i understand, even when we have super fast internet true mmo players want a spreadsheet combat that determines if you blocked or not or hit someone with a projectile...
console kids? putting down consoles action games becuase you love auto attack/ point and click? what amazing mmo are you playing? i bet its a point and clicker
People will play and love it when mmos play like dark souls or dragons dogma.. it will be amazing and make wow type games look ancient and outdated.. which they already are.. and koreans are inching much closer to it then western devs ever will...
ROFLMAO, no
I play a character in a fantasy world. That character has skills, agility and training. I do not.
Action style combat is designed for people who want to get some kudos for being better than the next guy at hitting little buttons or rattling a mouse. It is a console generation view of "how games should be", not everyone that has played a console has that attitude, but not one of those that never have and loath consoles like this idea.
As for kids, it you are under 40 you are a kid from my perspective, under 25 a child.
i honestly dont understand how anyone can be opposed to aiming arrows or projectiles.. its fun in itself.. honestly do you love homing auto aim projectiels? do you love auto blocks? whats the appeal
and so what if people want to show their skill, almost every competitive thing in this world is skill based
4. Crosshair = action. Crosshair (if implemented correctly) ultimately means non-target, so by that very nature you have to be more visceral in determining and executing your attacks. Fast paced ALSO = action, but it just sets the tempo and not necessarily defines action.
Crosshair may equal action, but IMHO action combat = FPS not RPG.
Having a developer label their game "action combat" and/or FFA PvP is enough to cross it of my list of potential games to play.
I am far from alone in this. Yes the console kids want console style combat, BAMF animation, silly armor styles and lots of breasts.
True MMO players want other things entirely.
sure i understand, even when we have super fast internet true mmo players want a spreadsheet combat that determines if you blocked or not or hit someone with a projectile...
console kids? putting down consoles action games becuase you love auto attack/ point and click? what amazing mmo are you playing? i bet its a point and clicker
People will play and love it when mmos play like dark souls or dragons dogma.. it will be amazing and make wow type games look ancient and outdated.. which they already are.. and koreans are inching much closer to it then western devs ever will...
ROFLMAO, no
I play a character in a fantasy world. That character has skills, agility and training. I do not.
Action style combat is designed for people who want to get some kudos for being better than the next guy at hitting little buttons or rattling a mouse. It is a console generation view of "how games should be", not everyone that has played a console has that attitude, but not one of those that never have and loath consoles like this idea.
As for kids, it you are under 40 you are a kid from my perspective, under 25 a child.
i honestly dont understand how anyone can be opposed to aiming arrows or projectiles.. its fun in itself.. honestly do you love homing auto aim projectiels? do you love auto blocks? whats the appeal
and so what if people want to show their skill, almost every competitive thing in this world is skill based
Your inability to understand that others can like something different than you is your biggest hurdle here. At least you finally realize that's the problem. What you do with that knowledge from this point on is up to you.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
4. Crosshair = action. Crosshair (if implemented correctly) ultimately means non-target, so by that very nature you have to be more visceral in determining and executing your attacks. Fast paced ALSO = action, but it just sets the tempo and not necessarily defines action.
Crosshair may equal action, but IMHO action combat = FPS not RPG.
Having a developer label their game "action combat" and/or FFA PvP is enough to cross it of my list of potential games to play.
I am far from alone in this. Yes the console kids want console style combat, BAMF animation, silly armor styles and lots of breasts.
True MMO players want other things entirely.
sure i understand, even when we have super fast internet true mmo players want a spreadsheet combat that determines if you blocked or not or hit someone with a projectile...
console kids? putting down consoles action games becuase you love auto attack/ point and click? what amazing mmo are you playing? i bet its a point and clicker
People will play and love it when mmos play like dark souls or dragons dogma.. it will be amazing and make wow type games look ancient and outdated.. which they already are.. and koreans are inching much closer to it then western devs ever will...
ROFLMAO, no
I play a character in a fantasy world. That character has skills, agility and training. I do not.
Action style combat is designed for people who want to get some kudos for being better than the next guy at hitting little buttons or rattling a mouse. It is a console generation view of "how games should be", not everyone that has played a console has that attitude, but not one of those that never have and loath consoles like this idea.
As for kids, it you are under 40 you are a kid from my perspective, under 25 a child.
i honestly dont understand how anyone can be opposed to aiming arrows or projectiles.. its fun in itself.. honestly do you love homing auto aim projectiels? do you love auto blocks? whats the appeal
and so what if people want to show their skill, almost every competitive thing in this world is skill based
Simple, I am not an archer. Tried it a few times, even had a light bow and practiced for hours but I am not an archer. My characters usually are, so I expect them to be able to aim at and hit a designated target. Relying on my skills with a mouse or whatever should not come into determining whether or not it is a hit.
As for the use of firearms, I have real life experience of shooting at and being shot at by other people. I play games to help kill those memories not enhance them.
As for parry, dodge, block etc. it should be my characters skill at those things that should determine the outcome not mine.
Finally we have the kernel of it " almost every competitive thing in this world is skill based" I do not want my game time to be competitive, I want it to be cooperative.
Well its been proven time and again that in the u.s.a. if you say it enough people will believe you.
I'm from the U.S.A. and we have seaweed in our hamburger...wood furniture made from (scraps) of plywood...and weapons (of mass destruction) to protect you from the (one) intruder invading your home.
The (western market) knows what its doing very well.
Example: I sold new cars once and the (big) car lot i worked for sent out lottery tickets for people to scratch off and see how much (if any lol) they won off their new car purchase. Guess what....EVERY BODY WAS A WINNER OF $1000...but they couldn't get anymore than that off their new car. They could have gotten more on any normal saturday...but hey...they had winning tickets..
We serious gamers might not fall for these sleazy practices but for every one of us that LOL at this B.S. ten people fall for it.
People should be educated enough to know better than to be lead by the hand and f-d over while smiling at the great deal you just got. But hey...it's the (like you said)the western market.
I really cant defend their practices but I also cant believe the stupedity of the rest of the country to fall for them..
Originally posted by simmihi I agree with one thing, the western devs really need a reality check. We are starting to lose our specific MMO philosophy which gave birth to games with depth, great character customisation, planning, complexity, player reputation, sense of comunity. Instead we're gaining shallow games, with close to none RPG elements and this "action real time combat" crap which brings a ton of moro... errr "leet people" to the genre. These are not mmoRPG's, now we got FPS games with levels, even those levels being pointless, as your stat-points and everything are usually auto-allocated, skills auto-learned, auto-crafting etc. No wonder everyone quits after 2 weeks.
The two aspects of action combat and RPGS elements are not mutually exclusive.
Western devs are way behind the curb on combat systems and animations/graphics. Eastern devs are way behind the curve on RPGS and storyline elements. Someone needs to come out and nail both.
if the combat in Tera was like Bayonetta or God of War, then yes you could call it full blown real time action combat.
They are solo oriented games (Bayonetta even suffers from FPS dips when gaming, wouldn't work in an MMO) and different genres of action games. They're a subgenre of what an action game is: they're beat 'em ups.
In Bayonetta to play at near 100% of what's possible with the system is near humanly impossible. You would have to dedicated months to get the combo system down (pattern memorization and twitch reflexes) to be able to gain all the in-game platinums for every stage, on every difficulty.
It took these people (click) 8 months and over 6,000 hours to completely master the game (IT'S A SHORT SINGLE PLAYER GAME OMG).
That is what I was aiming for in Bayonetta but ultimately I was satisfied with my 100% PS3 achievements.
Now, juxtapose Bayonetta's requirement for mastery with an MMORPG and I hope you see where I'm getting at.
MMORPGs need to facilitate for a large crowd, to be able to play together and leave almost no-one behind. Everyone should be able to enjoy the game up to a certain point, after which the most hardcore of the hardcore take that 1%.
Even with TERA being "slow" (I fully disagree) people suck left and right. Pardon me if anyone feels insulted. But they do.
Teras melee combat is slow and heavily locked with long animations, you cant jump and make diving attacks like a real action combat does....
It's slow until you get faster weapons. Enraged monster are anything but slow. Not everything is "locked with long animations".
The warrior class has skills that have it jump in the air or do other acrobatic crap. Several classes also have dive-like skills where you jump and slam your weapon into the ground.
I don't know what more you want. There are more acrobatics-oriented games out there (e.g. Dragon Nest).
you can not freely evade while making a fast chain combo like real action combat does,
I'd suggest diving into the Chained Skills UI and setting up your own combo. Pressing Spacebar (remappable) will trigger the next combo in that defined combo list.
instead you are stuck with a heavy trinity system where you have 1 evade skill stricted to a couple of classes, the rest just tank because they cant evade.
The tanks can evade just fine. Warrior always had it and now lancers got a Backstep. Pretty handy and adds more strategy to the way I approach combat.
Every single class has a form of evasion. Either it be as various forms of teleportation, flying backwards or invincibilities (e.g. Death from Above for warrior).
Or simply sidestepping (situational) works just fine as well.
Combat in GW2 is not necesarily tab target, i have never used tab or click to target in GW2.... ever! and combat feels a lot faster and more free than Tera cos it doesnt have animation lock when chaining attacks.
If that's what it takes to make combat faster, no thanks.
TERA can carry on the way it is. Combat was never its main issue.
The top and bottom halves of your character are in sync graphically and it doesn't create strange twists and motions.
You can't strafe in circles around someone while flailing a weapon.
No spammy combat and unbalanced melee vs ranged tradeoffs.
No clusterfuck of particles to try and make combat more exciting.
Hitting things make them flinch, bowl over and the sound effect you get according to your weapon/attack and blood effects is a nice touch.
There's active player collisions enabled meaning stronger attacks can physically force your opponent backwards even if they block/parry with their shield/swords/axes.
All of this adds to combat having a very weighty feel to it instead of looking strange and "floaty" during combat.
Well its been proven time and again that in the u.s.a. if you say it enough people will believe you.
I'm from the U.S.A. and we have seaweed in our hamburger...wood furniture made from (scraps) of plywood...and weapons (of mass destruction) to protect you from the (one) intruder invading your home.
The (western market) knows what its doing very well.
Example: I sold new cars once and the (big) car lot i worked for sent out lottery tickets for people to scratch off and see how much (if any lol) they won off their new car purchase. Guess what....EVERY BODY WAS A WINNER OF $1000...but they couldn't get anymore than that off their new car. They could have gotten more on any normal saturday...but hey...they had winning tickets..
We serious gamers might not fall for these sleazy practices but for every one of us that LOL at this B.S. ten people fall for it.
People should be educated enough to know better than to be lead by the hand and f-d over while smiling at the great deal you just got. But hey...it's the (like you said)the western market.
I really cant defend their practices but I also cant believe the stupedity of the rest of the country to fall for them..
Western means NA and Europe. Your weapons of mass destruction comment makes you sound like an utter fool btw.
Every time a new western mmo comes out they would brag that its innovative and new,
but makes no mention that koreans have been doing it for years.. a full blown console level real time action game like tera has been around forever and nothing in the west has come close in terms of gameplay and style of action..
yet games like guildwars and ESO start bragging about its dated combat.. I remember SWTOR bragging the crap out of its amazing innovative combat system.. when you actually see the game its the same point and click crap...
Why dont they look at the competition and see that they are inferior.. look at a kiddy mmo like dragon nest and watch a pvp battle and tell me what in the west matches that? its real time action with every action conducted by the crosshair aiming.. no auto aim crap....
Do western devs need a reality check? they are way behind in innovation/ style/ gamplay.. sure theres shitty korean games but there are amazing ones and they outnumber western games by alot
Well name one good Asian game? Attempting to add in innovation and doing it justice are seperate endeavors.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
IF i wanted to play a console game i would play a console game.
Playing an MMO is more than just pvp. Dont get me wrong - - I love my pvp.
But what you are asking is to take a MMo and turn it into a first person shooter. I wouldnt play that game - and if you want to - go play a first person shooter.
Meh, all this bickering about rooted combat is giving me a headache. Plain and simple, the majority fo those that mock TERAs combat, didn't like the game in the first place and didn't get far into it.
If you actually got far into the game and played max level dungeons, well then, you understand the combat and then have a right to call it bad.
You can call it bad early on, because it is, but not bad as a whole until you play it to it's full extent, they make progression too great, you're given few skills, very unadvanced versions of them and your attack speed is slow.
On another note, plenty of action games have rooted combat to a degree, just because you're too simple minded to understand how it works or too used to tab-target strafe fests doesn't mean it's not action combat. Not to mention the term action combat is subjective.
TERAs combat is faster paced than GW2s, i've played them both at max level, you wouldn't understand unless you did same. But most who mock TERAs combat usually quit between levels 1-15.
Meh, all this bickering about rooted combat is giving me a headache. Plain and simple, the majority fo those that mock TERAs combat, didn't like the game in the first place and didn't get far into it.
If you actually got far into the game and played max level dungeons, well then, you understand the combat and then have a right to call it bad.
You can call it bad early on, because it is, but not bad as a whole until you play it to it's full extent, they make progression too great, you're given few skills, very unadvanced versions of them and your attack speed is slow.
On another note, plenty of action games have rooted combat to a degree, just because you're too simple minded to understand how it works or too used to tab-target strafe fests doesn't mean it's not action combat. Not to mention the term action combat is subjective.
TERAs combat is faster paced than GW2s, i've played them both at max level, you wouldn't understand unless you did same. But most who mock TERAs combat usually quit between levels 1-15.
It's just different preferences. Don't get bent out of shape just because people don't agree with you. The rooting and such in TERA is just a feature many don't like because it does slow down combat. The only action oriented aspect of TERA's combat is the lack of tab targeting, but the combat itself is slowed down to the pace of standard MMO's.
It's not a bad thing, it's not a good thing, it just is and it's not something everyone is going to like.
Theres no need for insults as that isn't going to convience people their opinion is wrong.
GW2's combat is faster paced, the only thing keeping it from being full fledged action combat is the tab targeting system which is the exact opposite of TERA which slows the pace of combat overall so that it can use a manual targeting system that isn't beyond what most players can handle.
And yes, the term action combat is subjective but I like to think we can all agree it means more than simply lacking tab targeting.
This is from someone that has played GW2 to cap and unfortunately played TERA to cap due to a friend enjoying the game.
I can be more specific, I dont like Anime, I dont like large spell effects, I dont like Korean character model styles, I dont like cash shops, I dont like the trash can lid sound effects that come with their combat system, I dont like the sqeeky female combat voice evertime she swings her sword, I dont like panda/bunnys with antenna looking creatures. I dont like the armor styles or overly large weapons. I dont like the excessive use of pastels and the in general overly bright color and lighting pallets. Character movement is usually terrible and clunky. I dont like the lack of customization for the UI and hotbars and game settings in general. I dont like the lack of graphc option tweeks. I dont like the over use of lobby game mechanics and lack of open world design. I could probably come up with another dozen or so but those are top of mind and exist in pretty much every Korean MMO ive ever tried, Its just how they build em.
Ironic that the Korean developers are just as guilty as in the box thinking (if not more so) than their American counterparts.
A general rule of thumb is that people who came to MMORPG's from tactial RPG's like AD&D and Wizardry prefer character skill, and foucsing on the tactics of combat. People who came to MMORPG's from shooters or more often console based fighting games prefer "action based" games. To each, their own, but anyone saying that one is superior of the other is an ignoramous. It's a preference, not a fact.
Action based combat is the #1 fear for Neverwinter for me. If player skill trumps character skill, you're no longer role playing.
This is from someone that has played GW2 to cap and unfortunately played TERA to cap due to a friend enjoying the game.
Well the class matters as well...
Also TERA will infinitely be faster than games like WoW or Rift where you can macro/stand still for entire encounters, GW2 is argueable because they have a dodge so there's some twitch skill needed.
If you want slow or fast paced in TERA it just depends on the class.
Comments
Then go play a real FPS? Or a MMOFPS, there are plenty of them out there now.
RPGs have always been about dice rolls, lore and character building. If you don't like that then you are in the wrong genre.
yeah? what of it?
you talk shit about it.. and what do you have to offer from teh west? nothing? like i said at least they attempt it and it is true action gamplay..
im tired of all these people bashing it just for the sake of it, yet theres nothing from the west on that scale that can be brought up... NOTHING..
korean games have done games like warframe since gunz online... this doesn't count as an mmo to me its a pure lobby game.. like an fps..
"warframe allow groups of 4 to go on missions" WOW 4 PEOPLE.. thats an mmo to you? thats like saying planet side or monster hunter is an mmo
Pretty much 95% of MMOs are 'real time'. Real time just means its not turn based. EQ, WoW, Rift, TSW, GW2.... they are all 'real time'.
Targetting is not exclusively 'real time'. If you want an exclusive term for it - its reticle based combat, or FPS combat.
'Action combat' could mean anything, but usually refers to combat which doesn't lock you in place, or involves movement skills such as knockbacks and dodges.
actualy the standard point adn click 95% your talking about is more like and active turn base, you just dont see it but its all just dice rolls, like ffx , it just looks like real time or quasi real time
when people say action, like how tera used it, it usually means GOW/zelda/ darksiders/ DMC type combat
No, they are nothing like turn based. Because everything done is in real time. You dont take turns. It isnt a difficult concept to handle. How quickly you attack is based on stats such as attack speed and cast speed, and whenever you decide to cast them, which isnt based on turns at all.
Not really regarding action combat either, people refer to GW2, TSW, Vindictus and many other tab target games as action as well, because they involve dodging and moving while casting. Has nothing to do with reticle / aim based combat.
You really need to learn your definitions better.
Any idea why this kid is typing like an infant?
Rage harder, get on my Western level.
full blown console level action game like Tera?
if the combat in Tera was like Bayonetta or God of War, then yes you could call it full blown real time action combat. Teras melee combat is slow and heavily locked with long animations, you cant jump and make diving attacks like a real action combat does.... you can not freely evade while making a fast chain combo like real action combat does, instead you are stuck with a heavy trinity system where you have 1 evade skill stricted to a couple of classes, the rest just tank because they cant evade.
Combat in GW2 is not necesarily tab target, i have never used tab or click to target in GW2.... ever! and combat feels a lot faster and more free than Tera cos it doesnt have animation lock when chaining attacks.
I agree with swtor combat, its just wow combat with light sabers (which is not bad because thats what the game is).
I havent played enough Dragons Nest to talk about it, but i know its a cartoony game with the same gameplay as Vindictus and C9. great combat but bad gameplay due to the repetitive and boring non persistent open world.
I love the way New asian mmos are heading with amazing graphics and even better combat than the slow and locked combat Tera has. But good graphics and action combat is not enough for an mmo to be good (EnMasse and bluehole learned that the hard way with Tera). If Tera had dynamic questing i bet they were not going F2P this soon. Grinding quest is much better than grinding mobs directly, but its still a horrible way to make progression..... in 2013. Hopefully NCsoft adds dynamic questing to Blade and Soul because the korean beta was as grindy as Tera and that is not going to cut it.
Ill be playing Tera F2P for some time with a gamepad which feels better for its combat, but i know the quest grinding wont change at all. Sadly.
The original poster makes a really good point. The western developers have been copying KOREAN games for ages but this has been going on forever.
Vindictus came out a few years before GW2 and has far superior combat.
Crosshair may equal action, but IMHO action combat = FPS not RPG.
Having a developer label their game "action combat" and/or FFA PvP is enough to cross it of my list of potential games to play.
I am far from alone in this. Yes the console kids want console style combat, BAMF animation, silly armor styles and lots of breasts.
True MMO players want other things entirely.
sure i understand, even when we have super fast internet true mmo players want a spreadsheet combat that determines if you blocked or not or hit someone with a projectile...
console kids? putting down consoles action games becuase you love auto attack/ point and click? what amazing mmo are you playing? i bet its a point and clicker
People will play and love it when mmos play like dark souls or dragons dogma.. it will be amazing and make wow type games look ancient and outdated.. which they already are.. and koreans are inching much closer to it then western devs ever will...
ROFLMAO, no
I play a character in a fantasy world. That character has skills, agility and training. I do not.
Action style combat is designed for people who want to get some kudos for being better than the next guy at hitting little buttons or rattling a mouse. It is a console generation view of "how games should be", not everyone that has played a console has that attitude, but not one of those that never have and loath consoles like this idea.
As for kids, it you are under 40 you are a kid from my perspective, under 25 a child.
Do not get me wrong however. The curent MMORPG combat system could certainly do with improvements as could a lot of other aspects of game play. Its just that console style combat is not an improvement just a tacked on addition that provides an alternative that I regard as much worse than the original.
i honestly dont understand how anyone can be opposed to aiming arrows or projectiles.. its fun in itself.. honestly do you love homing auto aim projectiels? do you love auto blocks? whats the appeal
and so what if people want to show their skill, almost every competitive thing in this world is skill based
Your inability to understand that others can like something different than you is your biggest hurdle here. At least you finally realize that's the problem. What you do with that knowledge from this point on is up to you.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Simple, I am not an archer. Tried it a few times, even had a light bow and practiced for hours but I am not an archer. My characters usually are, so I expect them to be able to aim at and hit a designated target. Relying on my skills with a mouse or whatever should not come into determining whether or not it is a hit.
As for the use of firearms, I have real life experience of shooting at and being shot at by other people. I play games to help kill those memories not enhance them.
As for parry, dodge, block etc. it should be my characters skill at those things that should determine the outcome not mine.
Finally we have the kernel of it " almost every competitive thing in this world is skill based" I do not want my game time to be competitive, I want it to be cooperative.
By western i assume you mean usa...
Well its been proven time and again that in the u.s.a. if you say it enough people will believe you.
I'm from the U.S.A. and we have seaweed in our hamburger...wood furniture made from (scraps) of plywood...and weapons (of mass destruction) to protect you from the (one) intruder invading your home.
The (western market) knows what its doing very well.
Example: I sold new cars once and the (big) car lot i worked for sent out lottery tickets for people to scratch off and see how much (if any lol) they won off their new car purchase. Guess what....EVERY BODY WAS A WINNER OF $1000...but they couldn't get anymore than that off their new car. They could have gotten more on any normal saturday...but hey...they had winning tickets..
We serious gamers might not fall for these sleazy practices but for every one of us that LOL at this B.S. ten people fall for it.
People should be educated enough to know better than to be lead by the hand and f-d over while smiling at the great deal you just got. But hey...it's the (like you said)the western market.
I really cant defend their practices but I also cant believe the stupedity of the rest of the country to fall for them..
The two aspects of action combat and RPGS elements are not mutually exclusive.
Western devs are way behind the curb on combat systems and animations/graphics. Eastern devs are way behind the curve on RPGS and storyline elements. Someone needs to come out and nail both.
They are solo oriented games (Bayonetta even suffers from FPS dips when gaming, wouldn't work in an MMO) and different genres of action games. They're a subgenre of what an action game is: they're beat 'em ups.
In Bayonetta to play at near 100% of what's possible with the system is near humanly impossible. You would have to dedicated months to get the combo system down (pattern memorization and twitch reflexes) to be able to gain all the in-game platinums for every stage, on every difficulty.
It took these people (click) 8 months and over 6,000 hours to completely master the game (IT'S A SHORT SINGLE PLAYER GAME OMG).
That is what I was aiming for in Bayonetta but ultimately I was satisfied with my 100% PS3 achievements.
Now, juxtapose Bayonetta's requirement for mastery with an MMORPG and I hope you see where I'm getting at.
MMORPGs need to facilitate for a large crowd, to be able to play together and leave almost no-one behind. Everyone should be able to enjoy the game up to a certain point, after which the most hardcore of the hardcore take that 1%.
Even with TERA being "slow" (I fully disagree) people suck left and right. Pardon me if anyone feels insulted. But they do.
It's slow until you get faster weapons. Enraged monster are anything but slow. Not everything is "locked with long animations".
The warrior class has skills that have it jump in the air or do other acrobatic crap. Several classes also have dive-like skills where you jump and slam your weapon into the ground.
I don't know what more you want. There are more acrobatics-oriented games out there (e.g. Dragon Nest).
I'd suggest diving into the Chained Skills UI and setting up your own combo. Pressing Spacebar (remappable) will trigger the next combo in that defined combo list.
The tanks can evade just fine. Warrior always had it and now lancers got a Backstep. Pretty handy and adds more strategy to the way I approach combat.
Every single class has a form of evasion. Either it be as various forms of teleportation, flying backwards or invincibilities (e.g. Death from Above for warrior).
Or simply sidestepping (situational) works just fine as well.
If that's what it takes to make combat faster, no thanks.
TERA can carry on the way it is. Combat was never its main issue.
The top and bottom halves of your character are in sync graphically and it doesn't create strange twists and motions.
You can't strafe in circles around someone while flailing a weapon.
No spammy combat and unbalanced melee vs ranged tradeoffs.
No clusterfuck of particles to try and make combat more exciting.
Hitting things make them flinch, bowl over and the sound effect you get according to your weapon/attack and blood effects is a nice touch.
There's active player collisions enabled meaning stronger attacks can physically force your opponent backwards even if they block/parry with their shield/swords/axes.
All of this adds to combat having a very weighty feel to it instead of looking strange and "floaty" during combat.
Western means NA and Europe. Your weapons of mass destruction comment makes you sound like an utter fool btw.
Well name one good Asian game? Attempting to add in innovation and doing it justice are seperate endeavors.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
IF i wanted to play a console game i would play a console game.
Playing an MMO is more than just pvp. Dont get me wrong - - I love my pvp.
But what you are asking is to take a MMo and turn it into a first person shooter. I wouldnt play that game - and if you want to - go play a first person shooter.
Meh, all this bickering about rooted combat is giving me a headache. Plain and simple, the majority fo those that mock TERAs combat, didn't like the game in the first place and didn't get far into it.
If you actually got far into the game and played max level dungeons, well then, you understand the combat and then have a right to call it bad.
You can call it bad early on, because it is, but not bad as a whole until you play it to it's full extent, they make progression too great, you're given few skills, very unadvanced versions of them and your attack speed is slow.
On another note, plenty of action games have rooted combat to a degree, just because you're too simple minded to understand how it works or too used to tab-target strafe fests doesn't mean it's not action combat. Not to mention the term action combat is subjective.
TERAs combat is faster paced than GW2s, i've played them both at max level, you wouldn't understand unless you did same. But most who mock TERAs combat usually quit between levels 1-15.
It's just different preferences. Don't get bent out of shape just because people don't agree with you. The rooting and such in TERA is just a feature many don't like because it does slow down combat. The only action oriented aspect of TERA's combat is the lack of tab targeting, but the combat itself is slowed down to the pace of standard MMO's.
It's not a bad thing, it's not a good thing, it just is and it's not something everyone is going to like.
Theres no need for insults as that isn't going to convience people their opinion is wrong.
GW2's combat is faster paced, the only thing keeping it from being full fledged action combat is the tab targeting system which is the exact opposite of TERA which slows the pace of combat overall so that it can use a manual targeting system that isn't beyond what most players can handle.
And yes, the term action combat is subjective but I like to think we can all agree it means more than simply lacking tab targeting.
This is from someone that has played GW2 to cap and unfortunately played TERA to cap due to a friend enjoying the game.
Ironic that the Korean developers are just as guilty as in the box thinking (if not more so) than their American counterparts.
A general rule of thumb is that people who came to MMORPG's from tactial RPG's like AD&D and Wizardry prefer character skill, and foucsing on the tactics of combat. People who came to MMORPG's from shooters or more often console based fighting games prefer "action based" games. To each, their own, but anyone saying that one is superior of the other is an ignoramous. It's a preference, not a fact.
Action based combat is the #1 fear for Neverwinter for me. If player skill trumps character skill, you're no longer role playing.
Well the class matters as well...
Also TERA will infinitely be faster than games like WoW or Rift where you can macro/stand still for entire encounters, GW2 is argueable because they have a dodge so there's some twitch skill needed.
If you want slow or fast paced in TERA it just depends on the class.