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What is it that really makes it a "Sandbox"?

asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member

Basically I want to know what everyone is talking about. I see the word "Sandbox" in the same sentence as "Age of Wushu" more frequently than I've heard in a long time. And I want to know what exactly the sandbox features are in this game.

I've played a bit of the game, can't say that it really is a good game from a technical standpoint. Let's be honest, the game has terrible textures, it is unresponsive and poorly translated.

But I can see why people would be able to look the other side if it features a rich immersive sandbox universe. So tell me, what sandbox features are there?

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Comments

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,259Member Uncommon

    massively.com sums it up well.

    There are also a few threads on this forum from about a month ago asking the same question.  

    Unresponsive like WoW? What's a texture?

  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by bcbully

    massively.com sums it up well.

    There are also a few threads on this forum from about a month ago asking the same question.  

    Unresponsive like WoW? What's a texture?

    Whilst this is helpful, I can't really say that it's much of a sandbox, the only real sandbox-y features were "No levels" and "Player interactions" but those aren't too heavily implied to be sandbox-esque. It also implied that the interaction was cause of a lot of things being player crafted. But a ton of times where only craftable in WoW as well.

    I wouldn't quite call it a sandbox just yet. But I will say that the offline system does manage to make the world seem alive at points and there are a lot of things to do. However, there are a lot of things to do in themeparks as well.

     

    (Maybe it's worth noting that the quests do at times approach you when you're out riding, but well, it's not really any better than what GW2 did with their dynamic quests.)

    EDIT: The texture is connected to the graphical fidelity. And if you click tab next to a target, chances are that he is not going to be targeted right away. If you hit a skill button, chances are that there is going to be a minimum of 0.2 seconds delay.

    image
  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member

    I wish people would stop being so obsessed about the term sandbox and focus on interesting game design instead.

    What the hell is a sandbox anyway? Everyone has his own definition and thus asking "is this game a sandbox?" in a forum will net you as many answers as there are users. The term has gone from being a loosely defined concept, describing open-ended games with player freedom and emergent gameplay, to this rigid, ideological trope that people seem to adher to with almost religious zeal.

    According to some purists definition, we haven't seen a sandbox game yet because judging by their description of what makes a true sandbox no current game fits the term. According to some nostalgic people stuck in the past, everything made before 2004 was pure sandbox heaven and everything since is just WoW clones. According to others, a sandbox must be about FFA PvP while others claim it needs to be about PvE or crafting. Yet others seem to think it has to do with terraforming and housing, while another camp believe a sandbox is defined by a lack of classes. Then we have those who seem to believe it's all about open worlds and non-instanced areas. And it goes on and on.

    It's just silly really and I'm really starting to hate the sandbox term, as it hinders a clear judgment of what makes a game fun, innovative and interesting.

    AoW has some features that really stands out and can be described as "sandboxy":

    * Unrestricted open world PvP

    * Player policiing + a penal system

    * Freeform skill system (you can learn every skill in the game)

    * Player driven economy and player interdependance in crafting

    * Guild territory control and guild vs guild wars

    * Lack of handholding and linear gameplay - do whatever you like

    Add some unique stuff like offline players becoming NPCs that are used in several ways (among them kidnapping), spying on other schools and patrolling your own, team practices, etc.

    Does this make it a sandbox? I don't know and I don't care. It's certainly one of the more interesting games at the moment and it's more innovative than most Western titles, "sandboxes" like DF and MO included.

  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by Biskop

    I wish people would stop being so obsessed about the term sandbox and focus on interesting game design instead.

    What the hell is a sandbox anyway? Everyone has his own definition and thus asking "is this game a sandbox?" in a forum will net you as many answers as there are users. The term has gone from being a loosely defined concept, describing open-ended games with player freedom and emergent gameplay, to this rigid, ideological trope that people seem to adher to with almost religious zeal.

    According to some purists definition, we haven't seen a sandbox game yet because judging by their description of what makes a true sandbox no current game fits the term. According to some nostalgic people stuck in the past, everything made before 2004 was pure sandbox heaven and everything since is just WoW clones. According to others, a sandbox must be about FFA PvP while others claim it needs to be about PvE or crafting. Yet others seem to think it has to do with terraforming and housing, while another camp believe a sandbox is defined by a lack of classes. Then we have those who seem to believe it's all about open worlds and non-instanced areas. And it goes on and on.

    It's just silly really and I'm really starting to hate the sandbox term, as it hinders a clear judgment of what makes a game fun, innovative and interesting.

    AoW has some features that really stands out and can be described as "sandboxy":

    * Unrestricted open world PvP

    * Player policiing + a penal system

    * Freeform skill system (you can learn every skill in the game)

    * Player driven economy and player interdependance in crafting

    * Guild territory control and guild vs guild wars

    * Lack of handholding and linear gameplay - do whatever you like

    Add some unique stuff like offline players becoming NPCs that are used in several ways (among them kidnapping), spying on other schools and patrolling your own, team practices, etc.

    Does this make it a sandbox? I don't know and I don't care. It's certainly one of the more interesting games at the moment and it's more innovative than most Western titles, "sandboxes" like DF and MO included.

    These are terrific points, but that doesn't really give you that much of a freedom at all. However, I won't argue with you.

    What I am going to say is that you said you didn't care, yet you wrote half an essay explaining why this thread is wrong. Let me be honest, you are really one of those whom are arguing for AoW being a Sandbox. Don't try to justify it. However, at least you used valid points and answered the questions I wanted to know, it's too bad you left a distinct after taste of "Self-righteous Douche" in there.

     

    Other than that, thank you for your answers. Just try not to make it into a backhanded favor next time, cheers.

    image
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,259Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by asrlohz
    Originally posted by Biskop

    I wish people would stop being so obsessed about the term sandbox and focus on interesting game design instead.

    What the hell is a sandbox anyway? Everyone has his own definition and thus asking "is this game a sandbox?" in a forum will net you as many answers as there are users. The term has gone from being a loosely defined concept, describing open-ended games with player freedom and emergent gameplay, to this rigid, ideological trope that people seem to adher to with almost religious zeal.

    According to some purists definition, we haven't seen a sandbox game yet because judging by their description of what makes a true sandbox no current game fits the term. According to some nostalgic people stuck in the past, everything made before 2004 was pure sandbox heaven and everything since is just WoW clones. According to others, a sandbox must be about FFA PvP while others claim it needs to be about PvE or crafting. Yet others seem to think it has to do with terraforming and housing, while another camp believe a sandbox is defined by a lack of classes. Then we have those who seem to believe it's all about open worlds and non-instanced areas. And it goes on and on.

    It's just silly really and I'm really starting to hate the sandbox term, as it hinders a clear judgment of what makes a game fun, innovative and interesting.

    AoW has some features that really stands out and can be described as "sandboxy":

    * Unrestricted open world PvP

    * Player policiing + a penal system

    * Freeform skill system (you can learn every skill in the game)

    * Player driven economy and player interdependance in crafting

    * Guild territory control and guild vs guild wars

    * Lack of handholding and linear gameplay - do whatever you like

    Add some unique stuff like offline players becoming NPCs that are used in several ways (among them kidnapping), spying on other schools and patrolling your own, team practices, etc.

    Does this make it a sandbox? I don't know and I don't care. It's certainly one of the more interesting games at the moment and it's more innovative than most Western titles, "sandboxes" like DF and MO included.

    These are terrific points, but that doesn't really give you that much of a freedom at all. However, I won't argue with you.

    What I am going to say is that you said you didn't care, yet you wrote half an essay explaining why this thread is wrong. Let me be honest, you are really one of those whom are arguing for AoW being a Sandbox. Don't try to justify it. However, at least you used valid points and answered the questions I wanted to know, it's too bad you left a distinct after taste of "Self-righteous Douche" in there.

     

    Other than that, thank you for your answers. Just try not to make it into a backhanded favor next time, cheers.

    Tell me why you think it isn't a sandbox? 

     

    I hate to use the comparison because I use it so much, but EVE is the only thing comparable. If AoW is not a sandbox neither is EVE.

     

     

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    I think a better question is : what exactly is a sandbox?  Is sandbox just "features" or is it an actual game label?  I don't think people can even agree on what a sandbox game actually is.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member
    @asrlohz

    I said I personally don't care whether a game is "sandbox" or not. You obviously do and that's why I listed the "sandboxy" features so that you can make up your own mind. I also voiced my dislike for the way people use the term "sandbox".

    If you don't like the way I did it or think I'm a douche because I don't share your enthusiasm for the sandbox label, well... Tough shit. You start a thread on a forum, then get offended when people respond and discuss?

    Sorry but you can't expect random people on the internet to follow your personal rules on how a perfect post should look like.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    AoW is no sandbox, it is basically standard themepark MMO with quest progression being replaced by usual end game grind(dungeons, raids, PVP) from the get go.


    Anyway, only that matters is whether you have fun in the game or not.

  • DarkfallFanaticDarkfallFanatic Lake Moho, INPosts: 96Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami


    AoW is no sandbox, it is basically standard themepark MMO with quest progression being replaced by usual end game grind(dungeons, raids, PVP) from the get go.


    Anyway, only that matters is whether you have fun in the game or not.

    False...

     

    Its not your "Standard" themepark. A "standard" themepark would be RIFT. This game has so many features and systems it FEELS like a lot to play with, HENCE THE SANDBOXY FEELING PEOPLE ARE GETTING.

     

    Here is my checklist for AoW and sandboxes: 

     

    •  Housing - No
    • Guild wars and housing - check
    • Upgradable guild housing - check
    • Player-driven economy - check 
    • Freeform progression - check
    • Open-World PvP - check
    • Full loot - no
    • Player-driven moral/penalty system - check
    • In depth PvE crafting - check
    • In depth systems to promote PvP - check (spying, kidnapping, etc.)
    • Shitload of different shit you don't understand - check
    I'd say it has all the makings of a decent sandboxy themparky martial arts game. Maybe not as much as EVE, but DONT YOU FKING DARE COMPARE THIS GAME TO RIFT OR SWTOR OR I WILL GHOST CLAW YOUR FACE OFF. 
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,259Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DarkfallFanatic
    Originally posted by Gdemami


    AoW is no sandbox, it is basically standard themepark MMO with quest progression being replaced by usual end game grind(dungeons, raids, PVP) from the get go.


    Anyway, only that matters is whether you have fun in the game or not.

    False...

     

    Its not your "Standard" themepark. A "standard" themepark would be RIFT. This game has so many features and systems it FEELS like a lot to play with, HENCE THE SANDBOXY FEELING PEOPLE ARE GETTING.

     

    Here is my checklist for AoW and sandboxes: 

     

    •  Housing - No
    • Guild wars and housing - check
    • Upgradable guild housing - check
    • Player-driven economy - check 
    • Freeform progression - check
    • Open-World PvP - check
    • Full loot - no
    • Player-driven moral/penalty system - check
    • In depth PvE crafting - check
    • In depth systems to promote PvP - check (spying, kidnapping, etc.)
    • Shitload of different shit you don't understand - check
    I'd say it has all the makings of a decent sandboxy themparky martial arts game. Maybe not as much as EVE, but
     
    DONT YOU FKING DARE COMPARE THIS GAME TO RIFT OR SWTOR OR I WILL GHOST CLAW YOUR FACE OFF. 

    +3

     

    Edit - +2 internets

    edit -Thanks for the sig.

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member

    The sandbox feel,

     

     There are countless definitions of what makes a game a Sandbox game, many of them contradict each other or are so narrow in scope that no game could possibly measure up. One that I found appealing is that if there are shards, given enough time, those shards would look different from each other. I kind of like that defintion, it is simple to understand....wushu isn't that

     What Wushu does have is people, and given enough time those people look different from each other, in fact in any given day you can do what you want....and it is not a simple matter of "paths" to take to the goal but real choice in how you want to play out your time in Wushu. Bcbully might run rampant on the caravan roads, I might decide to go do mini challanges in Wudang, and you may socialize in a small hamlet...whatever we all are growing our characters so neither of us is getting penalized for our choices in the game. Whats more the game didn't tell any of us to do what we are doing, we looked at the options and picked something that seemed fun to us.

     That is what I want to do in a sandbox,  I want to go off and do my thing and not be penalized for it. Can you terraform or build a dung pile of rocks in the middle of the road? No.

    Go play music or cook or kill someone? Sure knock yourself out.

    Call it what you want, Sandbox or free form pathless progression (FFPG), or just No Rails, I don't really care. The thing I care about is that I can go do what I want and you can go do what you want and we both get to grow as characters and have fun and there isn't a "Wrong" choice, well unless you end up in jail.

  • django-djangodjango-django ElthamPosts: 115Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by DarkfallFanatic
    Originally posted by Gdemami


    AoW is no sandbox, it is basically standard themepark MMO with quest progression being replaced by usual end game grind(dungeons, raids, PVP) from the get go.


    Anyway, only that matters is whether you have fun in the game or not.

    False...

     

    Its not your "Standard" themepark. A "standard" themepark would be RIFT. This game has so many features and systems it FEELS like a lot to play with, HENCE THE SANDBOXY FEELING PEOPLE ARE GETTING.

     

    Here is my checklist for AoW and sandboxes: 

     

    •  Housing - No
    • Guild wars and housing - check
    • Upgradable guild housing - check
    • Player-driven economy - check 
    • Freeform progression - check
    • Open-World PvP - check
    • Full loot - no
    • Player-driven moral/penalty system - check
    • In depth PvE crafting - check
    • In depth systems to promote PvP - check (spying, kidnapping, etc.)
    • Shitload of different shit you don't understand - check
    I'd say it has all the makings of a decent sandboxy themparky martial arts game. Maybe not as much as EVE, but
     
    DONT YOU FKING DARE COMPARE THIS GAME TO RIFT OR SWTOR OR I WILL GHOST CLAW YOUR FACE OFF. 

    +3

     

    Edit - +2 internets

    edit -Thanks for the sig.

    I love this! Why?

    Because it was not too long ago that DarkfallFanatic was questioning whether to try out this game.

    Now look at that! 

    Great stuff, it is a shame that signature is already in use.

    + 1 from me.

  • BigHatLoganBigHatLogan Bellingham, WAPosts: 688Member
    AoW is a sandbox because characters are not guided in any sort of linear path.  Typical mmorpg questing is present but the rewards are terrible and i don't think many people do it.  Instances don't drop gear so their is no gear treadmill to make it to the next instance.  AoW is a sandbox because the player needs to make a decision on what he wants to do that day when he logs in.  Themeparks guide  players along a specific path.  AoW definitely has designed the most realistic game world in an mmorpg that I have seen, aside from EVE.  (By realistic i mean how people would actually act in their given setting)  The majority of content in AoW takes place around the cities or martial arts schools, rather than off in the woods murdering wolves or whatever like other games.  Characters go to work when the player is offline and actually going to work is one of few ways of actually getting money in the game (just like real life).  The only other ways of making money are in crafting and setting up a business to sell stuff to others, and kidnapping people from their jobs and selling them into slavery.  (Also just like in real life)  All in all i think that makes the game a sandbox, content is generally player driven rather than scripted.  Even the instanced dungeons have bosses that summon players to help kill the group running it.  Such a great idea. 

    Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
    image
    I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!

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