Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

The Problem is Responsibility with Anonymity

MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member

EDIT: Before anyone reads this please understand:  I AM NOT ADVOCATING THAT EVERYONE'S NAMES BE PLACED ONLINE.  I am only putting the problem up there for discussion.  It will be up to individual people, communities and societies to come together and decide what the solution is, if any.  This is just a discussion about how anonymity often gives people a free pass to be gross to each other, and we should all wonder why that is.

 

EDIT 2:  Updated the title of this thread to make it more in line with my post.

--------------------------------------------------------------

First of all, I want to present an article I read recently about a high profile tech guru who went from advocating, forcibly, concepts such as free information and internet anonymity.  Due to the nastiness coming out of humanity online in recent years, he has changed his attitude on these subjects.  It's a great read for those of you who have the attention span.  He's a bit more active on this subject than I am, but having watched the internet grow over the years, I know exactly what he means.

What Turned Jaron Lanier Against the Web?

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/What-Turned-Jaron-Lanier-Against-the-Web-183832741.html

We are seeing companies like Google try to nudge their users on YouTube, and all their other services, into using their real names online. One of the (many) reasons for that is that YouTube is a cesspool of disgusting and useless comments from people who hide behind a screen name and see it as license to be grotesque toward fellow humans as often as they can.  I understand the problem, and it has become so bad that as a web developer today, I recommend that my clients simply turn commenting off on *all* of their YouTube vids.

Like Jaron Lanier, I used to be a big advocate of blanket anonymity online, as well as freely available information, art, music, etc.  However, my views have changed quite a bit, and I think if the internet is going to mature further, the culture is going to have to grow the hell up.  Yes, there is a place for privacy and anonymity, but if people cannot be trusted to wield these things in a responsible manner, then I cannot fault businesses and organizations for wanting to end those privileges.  In my opinion, Google and others are doing the right thing by trying to clean up the gutter-dwellers of their user base. They have the right to do so, and you have the right to not use their service.

The problem we are seeing on MMORPG.com with the community is happening all over the internet, not just here.  As long as people are free to feel like they can hide who they are and say whatever they want, many apparently choose to be disrespectful and hateful.  I'm sure many a book will be written on this subject in the future, but for now the evidence speaks for itself.  Worse yet, this abhorrent online behavior has seeped into meatspace (the real world), and can be seen, for example, in how hatefully divided the USA is on political matters. So much so, that our country is barely moving forward these days.  Mud-slinging has become the norm, and intelligent discourse is buried beneath the growing volume of hate-speech, logical fallacy, straw man arguments, ad hominem attacks, and other useless hot air.

While we cannot clean up the whole internet from here, we can start by adding some nettiquette features both at the forum code level, and as users of the forums.  We can also take with us the idea that we are wasting our time and impeding the general development of the human race by not holding ourselves to a higher standard online.

I'm not saying that forcing users to use their real name on THIS website is the correct answer, but I do believe something must be done if the quality of this site is going to rise again.  As a daily user, I often find myself not wanting to get involved in conversations these days because they aren't entertaining, interesting or fruitful. I’d like to see this site, and the internet as a whole, grow up and start getting past this mess.

 

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

«13456

Comments

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member

    If the Smithsonian link in the OP is problematic, you can use this link to the article which is mirrored over at my favorite "alternative news" site, Red Ice Creations:

    http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=23250

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    The problem we are seeing on MMORPG.com with the community is happening all over the internet, not just here.  As long as people are free to feel like they can hide who they are and say whatever they want, many apparently choose to be disrespectful and hateful.  I'm sure many a book will be written on this subject in the future, but for now the evidence speaks for itself.  Worse yet, this abhorrent online behavior has seeped into meatspace (the real world), and can be seen, for example, in how hatefully divided the USA is on political matters. So much so, that our country is barely moving forward these days.  Mud-slinging has become the norm, and intelligent discourse is buried beneath the growing volume of hate-speech, logical fallacy, straw man arguments, ad hominem attacks, and other useless hot air.

     

    Why do you think that a society where everyone is afraid to speak their mind, because someone may target them, is a good thing? Or you prefer people to hide their true hateful attitude .. and all become hypocrits?

    So the US is divided on political matters. It is a good thing. Better to air the differences with words .. even mean words .. then with guns, and bombs.

    Mug slinging is human nature. Just accept it. Plus, a place like MMORPG.com is about games .. some unimportant entertainment. There is much worse offender of mud slinging (any political site will qualify). It is probably not the ideal place if your mission is to "clean up the internet".

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    The problem we are seeing on MMORPG.com with the community is happening all over the internet, not just here.  As long as people are free to feel like they can hide who they are and say whatever they want, many apparently choose to be disrespectful and hateful.  I'm sure many a book will be written on this subject in the future, but for now the evidence speaks for itself.  Worse yet, this abhorrent online behavior has seeped into meatspace (the real world), and can be seen, for example, in how hatefully divided the USA is on political matters. So much so, that our country is barely moving forward these days.  Mud-slinging has become the norm, and intelligent discourse is buried beneath the growing volume of hate-speech, logical fallacy, straw man arguments, ad hominem attacks, and other useless hot air.

     

    Why do you think that a society where everyone is afraid to speak their mind, because someone may target them, is a good thing? Or you prefer people to hide their true hateful attitude .. and all become hypocrits?

    The psychology here is that people aren't really speaking their mind so much as they are often just spewing hatred because they can.  There's also the question of what is useful dialog, in context of the place and time, and what isn't.  Anonymity online is a privilage, not a right. It's not a license to spew hate.

    I do not agree with the "internet posse" mentality either, and that is something else which needs to be discussed in our society moving forward.  In addition, most so-called anonymity online is false, as you've seen by people who have been attacked in real life for things they have done (or been wrongfully accused of).  What I am interested in is why this false anonymity gives some people license to be hateful when they otherwise probably wouldn't.

    So the US is divided on political matters. It is a good thing. Better to air the differences with words .. even mean words .. then with guns, and bombs.

    It's fine to be divided.  However, to make progress we have to be able to find common ground and compromise.  If we are busy slinging shit at each other, that is never going to happen.  If you've observed anything about humanity it should be that humans tend to shut down and dig into their position, no matter how wrong or bad it is, if they feel they are being attacked.  Get a girlfriend or wife and start an argument.  You will learn first hand how it works.  

    Mug slinging is human nature. Just accept it. Plus, a place like MMORPG.com is about games .. some unimportant entertainment. There is much worse offender of mud slinging (any political site will qualify). It is probably not the ideal place if your mission is to "clean up the internet".

    No, mud slinging is not "human nature" for most people.   We didn't evolve this far as humans because our general tendancy is to argue and fight with each other. On the whole, we evolved through cooperation and community.  Throwing insults is a place people go when they have nothing intelligent or useful to say, or if they just flat out want to use their words as a weapon.  Furthermore, I'd be willing to bet that most of the people who choose to talk smack online DO NOT do so to people in person. Read the article I linked in the OP for more examples.

     

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member

    This is a double-edged sword. I like anonymity to protect myself from the plethora of internet whackos. But I also know that many people hide behind this same anonymity to spout their vitriolic musings and hate. This from a man. I shudder to think what women would have to put up with having their personal information readily available to every psycho on the net.

    As far as the article itself goes, I applaud Mr. Lanier. Freedom of information and hoping that "the masses" will act responsibly has proven false in a very disheartening way. The typical internet information surfer searches for what they desire to agree with and neglects any opposing views. "The masses" subscribe to newsletters and websites that are focused upon what they want to hear/read and let those sites do the thinking for them.

    Instead of using the information available to make any informed decision, we tend to take quotes out of context (5 second soundbytes) and present our arguments in a very skewed way to support our viewpoints.

    I, too, recall the days of "netiquette." I find the loss of this a sad thing indeed.

    The TV show Castle had a cool little bit fairly recently between Castle (a single father) and his 18 year old daughter talking about him stumbling across her vlog (video blog) site. He was worried that she was sharing too much personal info and she countered with the fact that kids today live in a glass world where almost everyone has a picture phone or videophone and anything she does has a very good chance of ending up on the net. She re-iterated that she was aware of this and tried to act accordingly. I think this is an important factor to look at when discussing the net of yesterday and today. Us old fogies still recall the choice to have an address listed with their phone number in the phone book and how some people did not even want that connection.

    In some ways, the anonymity of the net has become less of a factor while in other ways, it is becoming more of one.

    A good, thought provoking read, for sure :) Thank you!

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    This is a double-edged sword. I like anonymity to protect myself from the plethora of internet whackos. But I also know that many people hide behind this same anonymity to spout their vitriolic musings and hate. This from a man. I shudder to think what women would have to put up with having their personal information readily available to every psycho on the net.

    As far as the article itself goes, I applaud Mr. Lanier. Freedom of information and hoping that "the masses" will act responsibly has proven false in a very disheartening way. The typical internet information surfer searches for what they desire to agree with and neglects any opposing views. "The masses" subscribe to newsletters and websites that are focused upon what they want to hear/read and let those sites do the thinking for them.

    Instead of using the information available to make any informed decision, we tend to take quotes out of context (5 second soundbytes) and present our arguments in a very skewed way to support our viewpoints.

    I, too, recall the days of "netiquette." I find the loss of this a sad thing indeed.

    The TV show Castle had a cool little bit fairly recently between Castle (a single father) and his 18 year old daughter talking about him stumbling across her vlog (video blog) site. He was worried that she was sharing too much personal info and she countered with the fact that kids today live in a glass world where almost everyone has a picture phone or videophone and anything she does has a very good chance of ending up on the net. She re-iterated that she was aware of this and tried to act accordingly. I think this is an important factor to look at when discussing the net of yesterday and today. Us old fogies still recall the choice to have an address listed with their phone number in the phone book and how some people did not even want that connection.

    In some ways, the anonymity of the net has become less of a factor while in other ways, it is becoming more of one.

    A good, thought provoking read, for sure :) Thank you!

    Thanks for the reply.   I tried to make it clear that I'm not saying anonymity should be done away with completely. I don't know what the answer is, but clearly a growing number of people online cannot handle anonymity in a mature manner.  The thing is though, they don't really have anonymity in the first place.  It's largely false, yet people act as if they are secure.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • PlasmicredxPlasmicredx Strogg CityPosts: 629Member
    I remember when people thought DRM was a good idea.
  • steamtanksteamtank Rochester, NYPosts: 385Member

    If words over the internet hurt you... don't use it.

     

    Everyone has to be so PC all the time its no wonder people freak out and act up on the internet. Anonymity isnt the issue. The issue is the real worlds ever tightening stranglehold on the list of things that are acceptable.

     

    We over medicate our kids for acting like kids. We expect 13 year olds to act like 35 year olds online.  We suspend students who draw zombies and trees on fire. We suspend kids for facebook comments. We suspend kids who to school for 8 hours and come home to 4 hours of homework nightly and dont manage to get it all done. We suspend kids for not saying the pledge. We suspend kids for talking about hunting or the shooting range.

     

    Then there is work

     

    You get fired for any slight against anyone not of your race/gender/sexual orientation real or imagined. You have to be so overly sensitive to everyones feelings you can't even think about work anymore.  Equal rights in the work place now means pander to every person not in the majority or risk lawsuit. Companies fire you for what you say on your own time on social media sites.

     

    Any time you have to put real information on the internet the powers that be can and do use it to make your life harder. We are observed non stop from the second we leave the house to the second we get home to make sure we are politically correct in all things.

     

    Why do people wonder that the internet is an escape mechanism to blow off steam. Sometimes blowing off steam is screaming pure vitrol.

     

    People need SOMEWHERE that isnt a politically correct nursing center or they will eventually flip out.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,763Member Uncommon

    Why do people ever behave well, whether online or in real-life?  More often than we might like to think (though far from always), the answer is because we fear the consequences if we don't.  Would you steal if you knew absolutely for certain that you wouldn't be caught?  Maybe not at first, and maybe not ever, but it would sure be a lot more tempting if we saw other people commonly doing so and getting away with it.

    Anonymity online greatly diminishes the harm that can come to us if we behave badly, which is why it provides a glimpse into how people are likely to behave if there were no consequences.  But attaching real names to what you say online isn't the solution; the flip side of a lack of consequences for behaving badly online is that we really can't do that much damage.  I'd sure rather have some idiot launch into a tirade against me on an online like this one and then have to block him than have someone come to my apartment and stab me.  Take away anonymity and the person inclined to cause trouble may be able to find where I live and do far more harm.  We can cite the occasional example of someone who committed suicide after being bullied online, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to over 10000 murders annually in the United States.

    The problem is that if you are a jerk online, you likely never again have any contact with whoever you wronged.  He can't take revenge or meaningfully shun you.  That's still true if you attach your real name to your posts.  It's also true with meeting random strangers on the street in a large city, provided that you don't behave badly enough for the police to get involved; it's no coincidence that small towns where everyone knows everyone else tend to be friendlier than large cities with millions of people.

    If you're in a small community online, and talk to the same people frequently, then you get a reputation for whatever you do (whether good or bad), and that can harm you if you behave badly.  That works out about the same whether you attach your real name or not.

    I don't believe that political arguments are an example of bad online behavior leaking into the real world.  Between the rise of television news in the 1960s and the rise of conservative talk radio in the 1980s (which had previously been banned by the "Fairness Doctrine"), the American right wasn't able to get its message out very well, which allowed the left to pretend that they didn't exist.  This is perhaps an odd fluke of history, as all three major TV networks had a left of center political bias.  If political arguments are more heated today than they were 30 years ago, it's only a reversion to the norm throughout American history, and not a new phenomenon.  Outright slandering your political opponents goes all the way back to colonial times; indeed the US Constitution explicitly defines treason and soon added the First Amendment precisely in order to allow this sort of verbal roughhousing in our politics.

  • augustgraceaugustgrace Cottonwood, CAPosts: 624Member Uncommon
    When anonymity is introduced, it becomes less about the freedom to discuss things and more an outlet for normally unacceptable behavior.  Part of the problem may be the demands by society to bottle up aggression and other negative emotions.  We have a big mental health problem within society due to not allowing certain emotions to be vented in a healthy manner.  Unfortunately this is all internalized and builds up, then when an outlet like anonymity on the internet presents itself, it all comes bubbling to the surface.  Of course on the otherhand, some people are just petty and cruel (sociopaths) and need to be identified through some means.
  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by Plasmicredx
    I remember when people thought DRM was a good idea.

    DRM didn't work and was undesireable, but another issue on the internet that we see here in our gaming community, is that people feel entitled to have everything they want handed to them for free.  How many posts have we seen over the past two years where people want fullly-featured MMORPG games that cost absolutely nothing?  They don't want to pay a box fee, sub fee or have a cash shop.  

    I was around during the original Napster / MP3 debate, and I was an avid downloader of MP3s back in the day. I had my reasons both selfish, and idealogical.  I purchase my music these days and/or subscribe to systems like Spotify because I believe this is a much more fair business model for all involved. I've never believed I was entitled to someone's hard work and artistry for free unless they wanted to give it to me. 

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by steamtank

    If words over the internet hurt you... don't use it.

    Everyone has to be so PC all the time its no wonder people freak out and act up on the internet. Anonymity isnt the issue. The issue is the real worlds ever tightening stranglehold on the list of things that are acceptable.

    We over medicate our kids for acting like kids. We expect 13 year olds to act like 35 year olds online.  We suspend students who draw zombies and trees on fire. We suspend kids for facebook comments. We suspend kids who to school for 8 hours and come home to 4 hours of homework nightly and dont manage to get it all done. We suspend kids for not saying the pledge. We suspend kids for talking about hunting or the shooting range.

    Then there is work

    You get fired for any slight against anyone not of your race/gender/sexual orientation real or imagined. You have to be so overly sensitive to everyones feelings you can't even think about work anymore.  Equal rights in the work place now means pander to every person not in the majority or risk lawsuit. Companies fire you for what you say on your own time on social media sites.

    Any time you have to put real information on the internet the powers that be can and do use it to make your life harder. We are observed non stop from the second we leave the house to the second we get home to make sure we are politically correct in all things.

    Why do people wonder that the internet is an escape mechanism to blow off steam. Sometimes blowing off steam is screaming pure vitrol.

    People need SOMEWHERE that isnt a politically correct nursing center or they will eventually flip out.

    We aren't wild animals.  To live in a mutually benificial society, there has to be some kind of agreed upon system of laws and/or ettiquette.  There's a reason you can't legally just walk up to someone and stab them "because you feel like it".  What you are talking about is selfish behavior where you should feel free to stomp on everyone around if you if so desire.  If that's the case, then you should be prepared to be stomped on by others too.

    "The powers that be", and anyone else, can get your real information anytime they want.  Your identiy is only superficially obscured in the first place.  I think a lot of people forget that until they are reminded.

    I'm fine with there being places where people an go and blow off steam, talk smack, use hate speech and *almost* anything else they want to do.  As a society and individual communities within that society, we have to decide on what is accepted behavior.  If the owers of MMORPG.com are fine with this site resembling the current state of YouTube comments, then by all means, they can go there.  Those of us who don't like it can leave.  

    The big question we humans are going to have to ask about the internet is what those rules are going to be.  Each year that passes, the internet is becoming an extension of family, work and community.  Many people spend more time interacting online than they do in meatspace.  That being the case it only seems natural that the internet is not going to always be some wild-west space where people can do and say whatever they want.  There probably should be sub-spaces where people can express themselves in this manner, but to think the whole internet should be this way is just childish.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    What exactly would you do with my real name if you had it?

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member

    Being a jerk or saying hateful words isn't against the law. Your idea is to simply oppress those with opposite political and social beliefs with fear and intimidation.

    And since it isn't against the law. What exactly is the intended goal here? Retaliation? How? With harrassment, violence, and or vandalism?

    If you're right about any given issue, then should there be a need to use force on others with fear and intimidation? If what you were saying was truth and really good for the "collective", wouldn't everyone accept it with open arms without a need of force?

    I, and many people like me, believe that every individual has a right to say or believe whatever they want. But, it's the moment that you impose those beliefs on others is where we will draw the line. Do you know what is going to happen when you continue to impose your beliefs on others? I have a pretty good idea, but do you?

     

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • RavikRavik Canton, CTPosts: 611Member
    Originally posted by maplestone

    What exactly would you do with my real name if you had it?

    I was gonna make a really long post but after reading this I don't have anything worthwhile to write.  Props maplestone.  

    Make games you want to play.

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by maplestone

    What exactly would you do with my real name if you had it?

    I never said your real name should be available to me or anyone else. That's not my decision to make. I'm just trying to start a discussion on the matter, since some people are wondering why our community seems to be getting more and more negative and combative.

    Companies, such as Google, seem to believe that one of the benefits of getting their users to use their real name will be to attach some accountability to what they say and do while using their services.  The example I used is YouTube, where there's all manner of hate speech and disgusting hateful comments posted under the false premise of anonymity.

    Google has the right to make this decision if you are going to use their service, and we have the right to not use their service if we don't like their rules.  The owners of MMORPG.com have the right to do what they see fit as well.  Society at large has the right to vote and create laws, and I imagine that day is coming in the not too distant future.

    To be clear, there is a difference between privacy / protection of your personal information, and what is being discussed here.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,152Member

    The tools are all there!

    Players are not using what they have available, and instead trying to change others, which any sane person knows is impossible!

    We have friends lists, ignore lists, block lists. We have the power to leave any group that is not playing the way you want them too. You are not forced to join any guild or clan that you dont want too.

    We also have ingame email, and now a lot of games have built in voice chat, with all the same block tools we have with chat, making finding friends and like minded players easier and faster!

    Where is the problem again??!!!???

    image
  • aleosaleos na, INPosts: 1,863Member Uncommon

    The biggest problem im seeing with the internet today is everyone wants to tree hug it. make it safe for everyones feels. that way only socially acceptable opinions are aloud to pass through. i hope im dead before that era comes.

     

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    Being a jerk or saying hateful words isn't against the law. Your idea is to simply oppress those with opposite political and social beliefs with fear and intimidation.

    And since it isn't against the law. What exactly is the intended goal here? Retaliation? How? With harrassment, violence, and or vandalism?

    If you're right about any given issue, then should there be a need to use force on others with fear and intimidation? If what you were saying was truth and really good for the "collective", wouldn't everyone accept it with open arms without a need of force?

    I, and many people like me, believe that every individual has a right to say or believe whatever they want. But, it's the moment that you impose those beliefs on others is where we will draw the line. Do you know what is going to happen when you continue to impose your beliefs on others? I have a pretty good idea, but do you?

     

    What I'm talking about isn't law.  It's about community and what is acceptable to any given community or society. 

    However, there's plenty of outright slander happening every day all over the internet, and sometimes on this very site.  There are laws against slander.

    So which beliefs am I personally imposing on you?  Have I posted a single sentence here which states a solid beliefe I should be allowed to force down your throat?  If so, please quote it for me.  I'm talking about community and ettiquette here, and how some people feel they have a free pass to say and do whatever they want online with such a privilege.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • KaylettaJadeKaylettaJade Holloman AFB, NMPosts: 144Member Uncommon

    The problem isn't anonymity. The problem is what people do with it. Growing up, my mother told me that if I wouldn't say it in front of her, I shouldn't say it at all. It's a pretty good ideal to live by.

    If you won't stand up and say something when you must own your speech, when you are not anonymous, then you shouldn't say it at all. That does not offer excuses to those who are willing to be hateful bigots face to face either, I don't personally like intolerance and hate anywhere, but I've heard far less vitriol spewed from random strrangers that I pass each day than by random strangers on the net. If you won't say something face to face in public, then don't say it on the internet.

     

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by steamtank

    If words over the internet hurt you... don't use it.

     

    Everyone has to be so PC all the time its no wonder people freak out and act up on the internet. Anonymity isnt the issue. The issue is the real worlds ever tightening stranglehold on the list of things that are acceptable.

     

    We over medicate our kids for acting like kids. We expect 13 year olds to act like 35 year olds online.  We suspend students who draw zombies and trees on fire. We suspend kids for facebook comments. We suspend kids who to school for 8 hours and come home to 4 hours of homework nightly and dont manage to get it all done. We suspend kids for not saying the pledge. We suspend kids for talking about hunting or the shooting range.

     

    Then there is work

     

    You get fired for any slight against anyone not of your race/gender/sexual orientation real or imagined. You have to be so overly sensitive to everyones feelings you can't even think about work anymore.  Equal rights in the work place now means pander to every person not in the majority or risk lawsuit. Companies fire you for what you say on your own time on social media sites.

     

    Any time you have to put real information on the internet the powers that be can and do use it to make your life harder. We are observed non stop from the second we leave the house to the second we get home to make sure we are politically correct in all things.

     

    Why do people wonder that the internet is an escape mechanism to blow off steam. Sometimes blowing off steam is screaming pure vitrol.

     

    People need SOMEWHERE that isnt a politically correct nursing center or they will eventually flip out.

    That's the goal. They want to control everyone with fear and intimidation in order to force you to conform to their beliefs....or else.

    You are aware of their intentions, so plan accordingly.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by steamtank

    If words over the internet hurt you... don't use it.

     

    Everyone has to be so PC all the time its no wonder people freak out and act up on the internet. Anonymity isnt the issue. The issue is the real worlds ever tightening stranglehold on the list of things that are acceptable.

     

    We over medicate our kids for acting like kids. We expect 13 year olds to act like 35 year olds online.  We suspend students who draw zombies and trees on fire. We suspend kids for facebook comments. We suspend kids who to school for 8 hours and come home to 4 hours of homework nightly and dont manage to get it all done. We suspend kids for not saying the pledge. We suspend kids for talking about hunting or the shooting range.

     

    Then there is work

     

    You get fired for any slight against anyone not of your race/gender/sexual orientation real or imagined. You have to be so overly sensitive to everyones feelings you can't even think about work anymore.  Equal rights in the work place now means pander to every person not in the majority or risk lawsuit. Companies fire you for what you say on your own time on social media sites.

     

    Any time you have to put real information on the internet the powers that be can and do use it to make your life harder. We are observed non stop from the second we leave the house to the second we get home to make sure we are politically correct in all things.

     

    Why do people wonder that the internet is an escape mechanism to blow off steam. Sometimes blowing off steam is screaming pure vitrol.

     

    People need SOMEWHERE that isnt a politically correct nursing center or they will eventually flip out.

    That's the goal. They want to control everyone with fear and intimidation in order to force you to conform to their beliefs....or else.

    You are aware of their intentions, so plan accordingly.

    Who is this "they" you are talking about, because I'm only referring to your own peer group, community, society, etc.  This is nothing new, and this is how humans have worked together for millions of years.  Do you believe the internet should be a free for all?  Please explain.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Chicago, ILPosts: 2,224Member Uncommon

    If someone really hates you, it's best to know the extent of their hate.  Not only that, but I can't control who is or isn't going to be offended by anything, no matter how politely put it may be.

    For example, I could say, "I think the government should do more to help the poor," and someone could think I'm the second coming of Stalin.  Likewise, someone could say, "I wish we could do more to protect the unborn," and someone could think that person is no better than the Taliban.

    The way I see it, anonymity gives people the power to be honest.  It also protects people from reprisal.  Because it doesn't matter how politely I bring up an opinion.  If someone who hires or fires me doesn't like the opinion, I can suffer for speaking my mind, should my identity be known.

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    That's the goal. They want to control everyone with fear and intimidation in order to force you to conform to their beliefs....or else.

    You are aware of their intentions, so plan accordingly.

    You need to stop listening to Alex Jones. Seriously.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by Beatnik59

    If someone really hates you, it's best to know the extent of their hate.  Not only that, but I can't control who is or isn't going to be offended by anything, no matter how politely put it may be.

    For example, I could say, "I think the government should do more to help the poor," and someone could think I'm the second coming of Stalin.  Likewise, someone could say, "I wish we could do more to protect the unborn," and someone could think that person is no better than the Taliban.

    The way I see it, anonymity gives people the power to be honest.  It also protects people from reprisal.  Because it doesn't matter how politely I bring up an opinion.  If someone who hires or fires me doesn't like the opinion, I can suffer for speaking my mind, should my identity be known.

    I like your post and agree with you to some extent.  Wouldn't you say that it's perfectly ok for communities, companies and organization to lay down standards for how people interact within the confines of that organization? In other words, do you believe Google, as a private entity, should be able to require you to use your real name on their services if they want?  Or do you subscribe to the free-for-all some of the above posters seem to believe is acceptable? That the whole internet should be anonymous.

    I find this whole discussion fascinating because it is so subjective.  Everyone has this idea in their head about where they would draw the lines.  The trouble is, as communities and society in general, there must be room for consensus and enforcement.

    Look at the Darkfall forums.  You can go there and talk as much trash as you want.  It's the culture of the game, and the people who play it have agreed that it is ok.  However, if you come to MMORPG.com and talk like they do, this is beyond the acceptable behavior.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,288Member Uncommon

    Its all tied up with freedom of speech, if you take away anonymity, despite trying to do it for the right reasons, the truth is that more harm is caused through good intentions than otherwise.

    Look at what has happened with Facebook, hardly a day goes by without some tale of how a young girl, or boy or whatever, was driven to suicide by malicious intent from people they barely knew, personally i think mediums such as facebook are a blight, not because they take away anonymity, but because they totally bypass the safeguards that a family represents.

    The trouble is that People with good intentions always have an agenda, be it political, religious or financial, the first is dubious, the second i just wish didnt exist and sadly the third is ever present particulary if you have an email account, thank goodness for spam filtersimage

    The problem with Anonymity, is that once you lose it, the wrong person will always get hold of the details/information whatever, and in a world where identity theft and cyber bullying etc, already is far too well represented.. why make it even easier for them to make others lives miserable.image

«13456
Sign In or Register to comment.