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Sony feels that F2P is the only way to go with MMO's

IsturiIsturi Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,509Member

In a  Interview  SOE Smedley "says that since the move to free-to-play, SOE has seen a 300 percent increase in new players for EverQuest 2, a 125 percent increase in item sales for EverQuest and a 350 percent bump in overall registrations. Planetside 2, its most recent release, has more than 1.6 million registered users, with 750,000 logging in to play every week."

Now lets face it in my every so humble opinion. SOE I feel is not the giant it think it is in the MMO world and hey if F2P is working well for SOE then great, fantastic. Truth be told they will never keep up with the indrustry leader's that still use P2P format. I honestly do not see P2P going anywere any time soon.

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Comments

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,945Member Uncommon

    Says the man/company that ran every P2P MMO they ever produced into the ground, by neglect, ineptitude, and mismanagement. Even the ones that "accidentally" started out well.

    "Yeah.. it must be the business model..."

    Dumbass.

    Plenty of people pay for WoW, Eve, and other games.

    SOE has just not put out any game worth paying for in the last 5-6 years.

     

    People are tired of paying for "mediocre" games and for the next "clone with a twist."

    That does not mean there is anything wrong with the sub model, just the offerings.

     

    That is the problem. Lack of quality, not one business model vs another.

  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Centreville, VAPosts: 1,690Member Uncommon
    I see it only as optional for any new game coming from now on. WoW will stay P2P until it will stop to be profitable and I doubt it will happen anytime soon. They do not have to worry about it for a long time, so why would they change, but any new game does not have a chance. F2P is here to stay and will be the option introduced along with P2P.

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  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Cedar Springs, MIPosts: 762Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Says the man/company that ran every P2P MMO they ever produced into the ground, by neglect, ineptitude, and mismanagement. Even the ones that "accidentally" started out well.

    "Yeah.. it must be the business model..."

    Dumbass.

    Plenty of people pay for WoW, Eve, and other games.

    SOE has just not put out any game worth paying for in the last 5-6 years.

     

    People are tired of paying for "mediocre" games and for the next "clone with a twist."

    That does not mean there is anything wrong with the sub model, just the offerings.

     

    That is the problem. Lack of quality, not one business model vs another.

    I agree on all points.

    I will pay a subscription for a good MMO, but I won't pay for a mediocre MMO.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    PS2 is the only new game to feature SoE's freemium/sub model as their other titles have been conversions. PS2 itself was not meant for a mainstream audience either being an MMOFPS. EQN will be the mainstream test of SoE's model and it seems we should know by year end.
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon

    free to plays make way more money than most pay to play games. People spend a lot more, to more than cover the cost of free players. Most free to plays (or freemiums), aren't even truly free...more like slightly extended trials. And still, they make more than most pay to plays.  

     

    Even EVE can technically played for free. One will argue that someone else is paying for it. But, you can still play for free. Go to nullsec, rat or pirate, on the 21 day trial, preferably with 1-3 other people at minimum besides yourself...and you never have to pay a dime. I earned enough for 2 time cards doing this, and I wasn't even off my trial. Nullsec is safer than high-sec too btw, just study the galaxy map ;) Though after giving EVE a good try, it wasn't my type of game. But you can easily play for free if done right.

     

    With that said...I think pay to play MMOs will probably become a niche and free to plays will become the norm. Even path of exiles, a truly free game...has made a lot of money from their VANITY cash shop.

     

    Heck, most pay to play MMOs have cash shops...like WoW...granted its vanity...but still...

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  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,778Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Burntvet

     

    That is the problem. Lack of quality, not one business model vs another.

    this ^

    both F2P, B2P, and P2P can be successful if the product has enough quality to make a profit with each model.

    I personally prefer B2P > F2P > P2P, but success still depends on how good the finished product is wether they have sub or not. The metality of ¨its low quality because its F2P¨ should end. Specially since P2P stopped delivering quality years ago and still charge.

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  • iamrtaiamrta centreville, VAPosts: 164Member Common
    If there were a game worth subbing for I would sub.
  • steamtanksteamtank Rochester, NYPosts: 385Member

    ill play any POS for free for a time.

     

    ill sub to a really good game for years.

     

     

  • LatronusLatronus Lexington Park, MDPosts: 692Member
    Originally posted by Isturi

    In a  Interview  SOE Smedley "says that since the move to free-to-play, SOE has seen a 300 percent increase in new players for EverQuest 2, a 125 percent increase in item sales for EverQuest and a 350 percent bump in overall registrations. Planetside 2, its most recent release, has more than 1.6 million registered users, with 750,000 logging in to play every week."

    Now lets face it in my every so humble opinion. SOE I feel is not the giant it think it is in the MMO world and hey if F2P is working well for SOE then great, fantastic. Truth be told they will never keep up with the indrustry leader's that still use P2P format. I honestly do not see P2P going anywere any time soon.

    Smedley has screwed everything up that he touches.  That's why all their titles have gone F2P.   If SOE were smart, and they obviously aren't, Smed would have been in the unemployment line years ago.  I would even turn him away from a soup kitchen if  he were unemployed because he would find a way to piss that away for everyone else that relied on it for food.

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  • Rider071Rider071 Utica, NYPosts: 318Member

    I agree with Smedley (this time). SOE has helped advance the F2P model far beyond what it was 2 years ago. They have made various matrixes for their games, so good, some bad, but definitely new and innovative.

    Personally I loved the matrix they held for EQ2:Extended, but they changed that model when they opened F2P to the entire game, which was sad. But hey, they take chances to make the most profit they can in the end.

    I play EQ1 as my default game, and I support SOE in buying it's game cards for SOE cash, but once a better game (or hyped game) comes out, I do go and play it...because F2P gives me the freedom to do so, and also because SOE has yet to find the perfect matrix that doesn't make me feel that I'm not able to experience the entire game. Preventing gear without the ability to unlock said gear through payment is definitely a gamestopper for me, as why I have no intention to see end game in EQ1 (my first mmo love).

    Currently though I am playing TERA, with their announcement to F2P I purchased the game to become a 'founder'. It was bumbpy getting into the game (those problems solved), but the game is definitely fun, and wel worth the B2P investment so far. Their matrix looks very promising as well.

    Honestly, I know many gamers over the years, and I have yet to talk to a single one i know personally that still plays WoW, or subs to any P2P game at all. So not sure where the sub numbers come from for WoW, but i have a very strong feeling that the numbers are false. I just can't understand how anyone would sub to a P2P game when there are so many great F2P games out there today, there really are.

    EQ1, EQ2, Vanguard, PSP2, DCOU, Aion, Aika, AoC, LotRO, WARTrial, TERA, DDO, Perfect World International, GW1, GW2....just to name a few I have experienced and regularly play. There are so many more, and so many more to come

  • WarmakerWarmaker San Diego, CAPosts: 2,231Member
    This is SOE we're talking about, ladies and gents.  [mod edit]

    "I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  • IsturiIsturi Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,509Member
    Ya it seems that a lot of people just cant take SOE serrious anymore.

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  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Isturi

    In a  Interview  SOE Smedley "says that since the move to free-to-play, SOE has seen a 300 percent increase in new players for EverQuest 2, a 125 percent increase in item sales for EverQuest and a 350 percent bump in overall registrations. Planetside 2, its most recent release, has more than 1.6 million registered users, with 750,000 logging in to play every week."

    Now lets face it in my every so humble opinion. SOE I feel is not the giant it think it is in the MMO world and hey if F2P is working well for SOE then great, fantastic. Truth be told they will never keep up with the indrustry leader's that still use P2P format. I honestly do not see P2P going anywere any time soon.

     

    I like how he puts out absolutely worthless percentages, and the usual worthless " registered users " number.  I do agree with your assessment.  SOE has become just another garbage cash shop publisher, but at least with them players won't have to put up with terrible english translations.    

  • IsturiIsturi Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,509Member
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    Originally posted by Isturi

    In a  Interview  SOE Smedley "says that since the move to free-to-play, SOE has seen a 300 percent increase in new players for EverQuest 2, a 125 percent increase in item sales for EverQuest and a 350 percent bump in overall registrations. Planetside 2, its most recent release, has more than 1.6 million registered users, with 750,000 logging in to play every week."

    Now lets face it in my every so humble opinion. SOE I feel is not the giant it think it is in the MMO world and hey if F2P is working well for SOE then great, fantastic. Truth be told they will never keep up with the indrustry leader's that still use P2P format. I honestly do not see P2P going anywere any time soon.

     

    I like how he puts out absolutely worthless percentages, and the usual worthless " registered users " number.  I do agree with your assessment.  SOE has become just another garbage cash shop publisher, but at least with them players won't have to put up with terrible english translations.    

    Im not sure what grammer has anything to do with the cash shop? Or with F2P for that matter?

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  • NC-JohnNC-John burlington, WIPosts: 113Member

    I have the old article (2005?) from somewhere, but it had SMED talking in some Asian country saying he was going  to turn all his games in F2P because they could monetize almost every piece of content for revenue. He also implemented for a very short time a McDonalds ad in Aurebesh outside of mos eisley but they removed that fast after people on the forums translated the ad and became pretty pissed off.

    The guy is a businessman, he is always looking for ways to pick your pocket. like any professional pickpocket he watched the earliest trends to see how he could make you part with your cash. Now he can claim to be the "innovation" guy that implemented it in NA when in fact he just borrowed it from Asian grind games.

    Why people listen to these types is beyond me. He's a suit and suits will steal your baby's candy. it's their nature and part of the training they received. sad part is he's the head guy of this gaming company, so he is in charge of all the development and he decides how to monetize his games.

    After reading some replies I have to agree that because the price of failure at launch is extremely high these days, they have opted to go freemium, which gives them a safety net of sorts. look at guild wars 2, they have started the decline, but because it's buy to play most of the fans I talk to tell me, "it's cool at least I don't have to pay a sub" and even if it's the most bland offering of all MMOs they'll poke their head in when it gets an update.

    F2P will buy you time, but letting content slack off and stagnation remain the norm won't save you if the systems and features never get upgraded/improved upon.

    But most people are content with this, which has allowed the model to flourish and at the same time start to fester as mediocrity has reared it's ugly head.

     

    "Not even a cray super computer can make this game run well. Thats what happens when you code an MMO in pascal. " - miglor

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Why would that be of surprise? The F2P is over-taking the p2p market in the last 2-3 years. The industry trend is very clear.

    And what he said is consistent with other F2P conversion. Except WOW, i doubt there will be any major MMO left that is not F2P in 2-3 years.

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member

    F2P may very well be good for the cmopany, but I feel like the overall MMO experience is leessened, because it doesn't encourage the long-term commitment that can make an MMO so great.  People try it for free, maybe buy a few things and play for a few months, then move on to another free game, leaving the people who are truly interested in the game in a constant state of having to desperately find people who are going to stick around.

    More players doesn't always mean higher quality play experience.

    You make me like charity

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member

    For sony F2P really is the only way to go with MMO's. A Pay to Play title has to have quality, polish, variety, and the ability to keep players entertained and playing 20+ hours a week for 6 months and longer. 

     

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    a 125 percent increase in item sales

    Why would he not quote the total revenue change instead of just item sales?  Is this a slip of the tongue or weaseling?

  • OgreRaperOgreRaper Detroit, MIPosts: 376Member
    At this point, with all the free games out there... I will not spend money on an MMO unless it is exceptional.  
  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Isturi

    Now lets face it in my every so humble opinion. SOE I feel is not the giant it think it is in the MMO world and hey if F2P is working well for SOE then great, fantastic. Truth be told they will never keep up with the indrustry leader's that still use P2P format. I honestly do not see P2P going anywere any time soon.

     Now lets face it in my ever so humble opinion. Isturi I feel is not the informed person he thinks he is about MMOs, F2P or P2P. Truth be told, Nexon Inc is the second largest MMO maker on the planet and only one single game maker makes more in profits than they do, EA...and EA makes most of its money from its Console and single player PC sales...yet Nexon makes most of their money from F2P games.

    Top population MMORPGs in history.

    WoW

    GW1

    Lineage 2

    Runes of Magic

    Atlantica Online

    GW2

    Lineage

    Vindictus

    I honestly

    2 subs, 2 B2Ps...the rest...F2P

    I dont see how F2P doesnt continue to grow and take more and more business away from P2Ps which rarely last a long time before going F2P.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Isturi

    Now lets face it in my every so humble opinion. SOE I feel is not the giant it think it is in the MMO world and hey if F2P is working well for SOE then great, fantastic. Truth be told they will never keep up with the indrustry leader's that still use P2P format. I honestly do not see P2P going anywere any time soon.

     Now lets face it in my ever so humble opinion. Isturi I feel is not the informed person he thinks he is about MMOs, F2P or P2P. Truth be told, Nexon Inc is the second largest MMO maker on the planet and only one single game maker makes more in profits than they do, EA...and EA makes most of its money from its Console and single player PC sales...yet Nexon makes most of their money from F2P games.

    Top population MMORPGs in history.

    WoW

    GW1

    Lineage 2

    Runes of Magic

    Atlantica Online

    GW2

    Lineage

    Vindictus

    I honestly

    2 subs, 2 B2Ps...the rest...F2P

    I dont see how F2P doesnt continue to grow and take more and more business away from P2Ps which rarely last a long time before going F2P.

     F2P doesnt mean the game is any good, it just means its free.

     

     

    To OP,...

    You didnt quote him by saying that only about 10% of the 750000 actually spend money on anything in PS2, so that is alot of free loaders to carry for that 10%. And 10% isnt that much money unless they are spending whole paychecks. I doubt a AAA mmo sandbox game can survive long off of a pay scale like that.

  • XsonicXsonic Houston, TXPosts: 93Member
    Planetside 2 got really stale after a short time. Now it's just a vehicle spam game.
  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member

     

     

    I can't afford F2P MMOs.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,645Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Burntvet

     

    That is the problem. Lack of quality, not one business model vs another.

     

    Exactly. The sub model just became a scapegoat for people like Smed to blame in the boardroom when he had to justify why he wasn't up there with the big boys anymore.

    And what's worse, the freeloader ADHD 5 games at a time transients amongst the playerbase bought into it wholesale and starting spreading the word that F2P was 'the future' and repeated the corperate line mindlessly all over the internet.

    I honestly think the period 2012-14 will be remembered as the dark days of the F2P client + cash shop as an ultimately failed experiment as more and more games go back to charging for the box at least. Even now there is a backlash against the F2P model and it's clear most devs see it as a second launch opportunity for their games rather then an out of the gate option.

     

    Personally I think they have all got it are about face... Free client, 2 weeks trial, charge a standard sub, no cash shop, needs to be given a go.

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