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Pay To Win
danmax67
Member UncommonPosts: 37
I see this term all the time. I think I know what Pay to Win means in theory, but I'm not sure I know what it means in reality. I don't know anybody that claims to prefer a Pay to Win game, and I'm not aware of any games that represent themselves as Pay to Win.
So, I ask - what are some examples of Pay to Win games and what game do you think is the most egregious example of Pay to Win?
Comments
In that case, I'd like to introduce myself as the first person you know who claims to prefer Pay-to-Win. If the entry point to the best gear is playing the same content over and over again 20+ hours per week, then I would really prefer just to buy the gear for real money.
The game I have played that I would categorize as Pay to Win would be Age of Empires Online, and I'm perfectly fine with that. It's a really good game.
The game I most wanted to be Pay to Win is World of Warcraft. I never could break into the very top tier gear because I just couldn't do the time for raiding.
I too would love if I could pay real money to get to max level instantly with all the best gear. Cost doesn't matter, I just don't actually want to play the games. I just want to have the best stuff in the games I don't play.
Well, you also don't want to make a useful contribution to the discussions you're not having by taking a concept to the absurd extremes.
Alright. Then at what point does paying for a game accomplishment instead of accomplishing it in a game by playing become absurd?
Well, you also don't want to make a useful contribution to the discussions you're not having by taking a concept to the absurd extremes.
Alright. Then at what point does paying for a game accomplishment instead of accomplishing it in a game by playing become absurd?
I am also interested in this definition, please elaborate
Whoa, wait a minute. Game accomplishments? I thought I was talking about gear. If I have Tier X Gear, and I have the accomplishment for killing Tier X+1 Boss, but I don't get my Tier X+1 Gear because the boss doesn't drop it or I lose the roll; what's the problem with me paying money for a "magic widget" that will upgrade my Tier X Gear to Tier X+1 Gear? Hey, happened to me all the time in WOW, and I still enjoyed the game a lot; but it would've been nice if I could combine my current gear with an accomplishment to upgrade to the next step.
No one is talking about levels. Though, I admit that I have played a game (Pirates of the Burning Sea) where I really wanted to buy my way to something less than max level. That was mainly because the game is dying, the lowbie areas are deserted (and I mean actually deserted, not "GW2 deserted"), and the only action left in the game is at max level.
That point for me was in 2005, when I discovered something I preferred to themeparks.
Well to side step the stupid argument that's about to happen...
Pay to win originaly didn't litterally mean you pay money and win. It meant you are able to buy advantages in game with real money.
Better gear, do more damage, have more health ect ect.
People have confused the meaning now so that some will argue if you have any chance to lose it's not pay to win...because you didn't win.
There are many things that people will include in p2w like xp boosts that don't actually help you win in a pvp match but most of the time those complaining are just doing it because someone has something they don't. It really doesn't have anything to do with an actual advantage.
My personal opinion on p2w is if a game goes down that road I stop playing. But it does have to actually have items that quallify as pay 2 win, not just a complainer on the forums.
Wartune and Atlantica Online are two P2W games that comes to mind.
The fact that this exchange is going on at all is absurd. We are talking about GAMES, if one person wants to pay for whatever that is that persons own deal. If another person would rather play the game and get the items that way, that is THAT persons bag. Why try to force either perspective down someone elses throat?
MMO gamers need to understand that people are different. Your playstyle might not be my play style, so what...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
So you wouldn't mind if in the MULTIPLAYER games, such as this site is dedicated to, someone paid a large sum of money that you couldn't afford to make their character invulnerable forever - and then PVP'd you repeatedly?
You know, that's his playstyle, and you're fine with it.
I was actually trying to have a discussion, being as this is a forum and all, rather than shove anything anywhere. The reason for this discussion on this forum is that these games are multiplayer and usually feature player interaction. Meaning what one player has or does can affect another in the game.
That help?
Aren't most MMORPG's using this format?
Be a member by paying a monthly subscription which allows you to use premium items you get from drops. Maybe pay cash for special armor or weapons giving you godlike stats. Sometimes it becomes a necessity since 1 fully funded hero could take the place of approximately 5 unfunded ones during quests.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
All cash shop based games are P2W. Any game that allows players to purchase items to give themselves an advantage falls under this category, and all cash shop games are designed to allow players to purchase content.
No, this was never the definition of pay to win though it was a common line used by people who were anti-F2P. Everything you list are examples of cash shop items, which are needed to fund the game.
A good example of P2W is the post above by Aerowyn
this is the core ( the roten core ) of what a pay to win game is .
a game where you gan buy boots is not pay to win as long as they expire after say 1 to 3 hours .
+1
Old School RPG Player
That is P2BBQ.
Pay to Win is very subjective. There are many degrees of it and people will react negatively at certain levels, while some will even jump on it. I'd have to list it in roughly three catagories. They aren't the best designed catagories, mind you, but I think they work as good stepping stones in which games might contain elements of all three.
Pay For Power: This is probably the biggest area where people draw out the "Pay 2 Win" argument. This is involved in games that paying cash gives blatent power usually not obtainable from players not paying. This usually entails a cash shop item that gives a boost that can't be obtained in game otherwise. This catagory has been blurred as games have begun allowing players the ability to 'sell' these items in game which can be considered making them 'obtainable' but it doesn't change the fact in the end someone is paying real money to obtain it. In some regards, SWTOR does this to a mild degree allowing cash shop goods to be sold in game, which I believe includes things such as permission to equip better gear, which would in many cases be a grab at power.
Pay for Conveinence: Often times a good cash raker without being looked at to negatively. This can entail extra storage slots or possibly experience tokens to boost how quick you level. These types of services are often blurring the line as you can make claim they are giving an advantage which, lets not pretend, they do give one. Its mostly about whether or not people percieve it that way or not that really determines this. A good example would be planetside 2 with the ability to pay to get boosts to your gains for playing which can make it a lot easier to unlock good addons or other things in game that would take other players longer.
Pay for Cosmetic: This is probably the safest area and the one least considered as an 'advantage'. This seems to be a trend particularly in eastern games which have taken away a lot of the other factors and made cosmetics their main source of income, using very few convience items on the side. People like making their character look unique to their style and its pretty easy to milk money out of them for just this purpose. A good example of this would be Secret World which has quite a lot in terms of cosmetic goods.
Like I said, these lines can be blurred or mixed. GuildWars 2 for example has the ability to trade gems for gold, something that blurrs between paying for Power and convienence. Path of exile focuses on Cosmetics but also has stuff like stash tabs and premium stash tabs which can mix the conveinence and cosmetic options as it helps organize but also just makes it look nicer. Its really up to the player to make their mind up what they take the game to be like.
What if it took 6months of 2hrs a night grinding to get the item you spent $10 on, is that pay to win? The item is available in game so you would define it as not P2W according to you definition above.
/thread
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