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Rationalizations

YakkinYakkin irvine, CAMember Posts: 919

A lot of "sandbox" supporters call out the "themepark" guys for rationalizing the "failures" of their MMOs.

 

Well, there are more sandboxy MMOs coming up, and there is hype going around...

 

But what kind of rationalizations would the "sandbox" people make if their game turns out to be as much of a "failure"/not as good as they claimed it would be?

 

/sits back and awaits responses.

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Comments

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONMember Posts: 3,099 Uncommon
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member Posts: 5,743 Rare

    They will be the exact same as the themepark ones but they'll have the word sandbox in them.

    "Sandbox have been crap for years but devs keep doing the same thing"

    "Game came out way too early"

    "Crap pvp"

    "Crafting is a joke"

     

    Exactly the same reasons.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYMember Posts: 2,572 Uncommon
    Almost sounds like you're hoping for a few of them to fail.  There's already a thread for that.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkMember Posts: 1,350
    The only sandbox that has been a success is eve, all the others have either failed or been blatant scams. It seems scams and sandbox mmorpgs go hand in hand.
  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Edmonton, ABMember Posts: 793 Uncommon

    Only on MMORPG.com will you find hypothetical failure threads about unnamed unreleased games.

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember Posts: 26,690 Rare
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    The only sandbox that has been a success is eve, all the others have either failed or been blatant scams. It seems scams and sandbox mmorpgs go hand in hand.

    If staying about water with a small player base is a success .. then there are many very successful MMOs.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAMember Posts: 14,247 Rare
    Originally posted by NaughtyP
    Only on MMORPG.com will you find hypothetical failure threads about unnamed unreleased games.

    That it's built entirely upon generalizations and baseless assumptions is the icing on the cake.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYMember Posts: 2,572 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by NaughtyP
    Only on MMORPG.com will you find hypothetical failure threads about unnamed unreleased games.

    That it's built entirely upon generalizations and baseless assumptions is the icing on the cake.

    But it's a sure fire way to 100+ responses :)

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILMember Posts: 1,777
    Originally posted by Yakkin
    A lot of "sandbox" supporters call out the "themepark" guys for rationalizing the "failures" of their MMOs. Snip  /sits back and awaits responses.

     I would like to take this time to point out something that not many people actually know. Rationalizing does not require being Rational.

    To rationalize; to ascribe to causes that superficially seem reasonable and valid but that actually are UNRELATED TO THE TRUE CAUSE.

    and anyone that thinks believing something that is not true, is reasonable...is not being rational at all.

    Rational; agreeable to reason, sensible.

    And there is your answer, they are rationalizing and not being rational.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYMember Posts: 2,572 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yakkin
    Originally posted by dave6660
    Almost sounds like you're hoping for a few of them to fail.  There's already a thread for that.

    [mod edit]

    You made this thread so in some way you do care.

    At least you're honest about wanting a little revenge.  Give yourself to the dark side :)

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • BlasphimBlasphim San Diego, CAMember Posts: 349 Uncommon

     


    Originally posted by dave6660
    Originally posted by Yakkin Originally posted by dave6660 Almost sounds like you're hoping for a few of them to fail.  There's already a thread for that.
    [mod edit]

    You made this thread so in some way you do care.

     

    At least you're honest about wanting a little revenge.  Give yourself to the dark side :)


     

    Do you have cake? How bout pie? Cookies will do I suppose.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember Posts: 26,690 Rare
    Originally posted by dave6660
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by NaughtyP
    Only on MMORPG.com will you find hypothetical failure threads about unnamed unreleased games.

    That it's built entirely upon generalizations and baseless assumptions is the icing on the cake.

    But it's a sure fire way to 100+ responses :)

    There are easier ways  .. like put "perma death" or "FFA pvp" in the title.

  • GreyfaceGreyface Detroit, MIMember Posts: 390

    I think the reason the Sandbox-partisans are so bitter is because they feel ignored.  Every AAA MMO released in the last 10 years (!) has been some variation on the Themepark.  If you're a Sandbox gamer and you don't like EVE, you're pretty much S.O.L.  Personally, I'm encouraged by all the new Sandbox games that are in the pipe.  Sturgeon's Lay, as always, applies: ninety percent of everything is crap.  My fingers are crossed that we'll get one or maybe two winners, but I don't expect more than that. 

    I'm a little discouraged by the schadenfreude expressed by the OP.  The Sandbox v. Themepark thing has gotten way out of hand.  There's no reason to rejoice in the problems of a game you never intended to play in the first place.  It's not a competition.  It's like rooting for the apple crop to fail just because you prefer to eat organges. 

     

      

     

     

     

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember Posts: 26,690 Rare
    Originally posted by Greyface
    I think the reason the Sandbox-partisans are so bitter is because they feel ignored.  Every AAA MMO released in the last 10 years (!) has been some variation on the Themepark.  If you're a Sandbox gamer and you don't like EVE, you're pretty much S.O.L.  Personally, I'm encouraged by all the new Sandbox games that are in the pipe.  Sturgeon's Lay, as always, applies: ninety percent of everything is crap.  My fingers are crossed that we'll get one or maybe two winners, but I don't expect more than that.  I'm a little discouraged by the schadenfreude expressed by the OP.  The Sandbox v. Themepark thing has gotten way out of hand.  There's no reason to rejoice in the problems of a game you never intended to play in the first place.  It's not a competition.  It's like rooting for the apple crop to fail just because you prefer to eat organges.              

    Actually it is worse than that. All the success online games, even those that have some MMO elements, are no longer virtual world sandbox oriented (LOL, WOT, D3 ....). Some are not even MMOs.

    The only one is minecraft, but that is a builder game, not an adventure combat type sandbox.

     

  • GreyfaceGreyface Detroit, MIMember Posts: 390
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Actually it is worse than that. All the success online games, even those that have some MMO elements, are no longer virtual world sandbox oriented (LOL, WOT, D3 ....). Some are not even MMOs.

    I would leave out the word "success."  No one is even trying, much less succeeding.

     

    The only one is minecraft, but that is a builder game, not an adventure combat type sandbox.

    Minecraft is a great example though.  A major studio would never have put out a game like Minecraft.  It took everyone by surprise precisely because the big publishers have been so focused on iterating on the last success.  I would never suggest that everyone should play one type of game over another, but there's a large group of customers out there who aren't being served by the present offerings.

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAMember Posts: 1,784

    Not Sandbox enough

     

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember Posts: 26,690 Rare
    Originally posted by Greyface
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Actually it is worse than that. All the success online games, even those that have some MMO elements, are no longer virtual world sandbox oriented (LOL, WOT, D3 ....). Some are not even MMOs.

    I would leave out the word "success."  No one is even trying, much less succeeding.

     

    The only one is minecraft, but that is a builder game, not an adventure combat type sandbox.

    Minecraft is a great example though.  A major studio would never have put out a game like Minecraft.  It took everyone by surprise precisely because the big publishers have been so focused on iterating on the last success.  I would never suggest that everyone should play one type of game over another, but there's a large group of customers out there who aren't being served by the present offerings.

    How do you define "succes"? A game that you like?

    LOL has more active players than WOW, and have good reviews. D3 sold 10M boxes.

    So it would be accurate to say that these games achieve financial success and are well reviews. You are not the sole-judge of whether somethign is successful or not.

  • ScottgunScottgun Ladson, SCMember Posts: 518 Uncommon
    Originally posted by NaughtyP
    Only on MMORPG.com will you find hypothetical failure threads about unnamed unreleased games.

    Indeed. Let me rescue this thread with a gratuitous picture of a slutty wood fairy:

     

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAMember Posts: 1,784
    Originally posted by Scottgun
    Originally posted by NaughtyP
    Only on MMORPG.com will you find hypothetical failure threads about unnamed unreleased games.

    Indeed. Let me rescue this thread with a gratuitous picture of a slutty wood fairy:

     

     

    Not slutty enough...

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILMember Posts: 6,403
    Must you poke the wet badger with the sharp stick?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIMember Posts: 2,030 Uncommon

    "This is a niche game.  I'm making a note here: 200k subs, huge success!"

    "This game is too HARDCORE for all the WoW carebears who are used to dumbed-down games."

    "The average poster on these forums wouldn't know a good game if it crit them in the arse!" 

    "I played Meridian 59."

  • ezpz77ezpz77 Beale, CAMember Posts: 227
    They'll tell us that the devs played it too safe and didn't make the game "sandboxy" enough.
  • YakkinYakkin irvine, CAMember Posts: 919
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Must you poke the wet badger with the sharp stick?

    I'm wearing My Tier 10 Armor right now, so I should be good.

  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Edmonton, ABMember Posts: 793 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Originally posted by Scottgun
    Originally posted by NaughtyP
    Only on MMORPG.com will you find hypothetical failure threads about unnamed unreleased games.

    Indeed. Let me rescue this thread with a gratuitous picture of a slutty wood fairy:

     

     

    Not slutty enough...

    But look at the fine detail on the moss and butterflies!... ok yeah you win.

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  • GreyfaceGreyface Detroit, MIMember Posts: 390
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    How do you define "succes"? A game that you like? LOL has more active players than WOW, and have good reviews. D3 sold 10M boxes. So it would be accurate to say that these games achieve financial success and are well reviews. You are not the sole-judge of whether somethign is successful or not.

    You're misreading me.  I was referring specifically to Sandbox MMOs.  Of course other kinds of games have done well critically and financially.  There's no arguing that fact.  LOL is a smash hit but I have no interest in playing it.  That's okay.  I actually did play a lot of  D3 (and I still play Torchlight 2 occassionally).  But I'm not talking about MOBAs, ARPGs, or even Themepark MMOs.  Those games will succeed or fail on their own merits, and have nothing to do with the point I'm trying to make.

    What I am saying is that there have been very few Sandbox MMOs released in the last ten years.  Those that were released have been hamstrung by poor production value, and therefore are not a good test of whether there's a market for this type of game.

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