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Do You Remember When....

maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,277Member Uncommon

 

Do you remember ...

When you would log in to an MMO just to be in a different world?

 

When you would hang out in Taverns/Cantinas just to socialize?

 

When you would create a character build based on what you wanted rather then what was "viable"?

 

When a game would launch and would not be 100% perfect and that would be OKAY?

 

When you would group up with players for the fun of completing content instead of the rewards?

 

When you would become friends with those you grouped with instead of dropping them when the quest is over?

 

When getting to max level was the least of your concerns?

 

When playing that MMO was more of an experience then "just another game"?

 

When you could leave a game amicably instead of it being a "failure" or that you "regret buying it"?

 

When you would play a game regardless of its payment model because you enjoyed it?

 

When the MMO Experience was actually FUN?

 

What happened to those times?

"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


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Comments

  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnPosts: 2,473Member Uncommon
    Idk what are you on about. I got most of those things in GW 2...

    Some are personal choices mind you(Like grouping and/or adding someone as s friend)...

    Seek and you shall find!
  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by maskedweasel
     

    ...When you would become friends with those you grouped with instead of dropping them when the quest is over...


    This is the primary reason why MMOs today quickly tank.

    No time to chat. Must rush to the next quest. They are the bulk of xp and rewards. Quest Hubs killed MMOs. Vanguard's slow death is not because of framerate, nor system specs, nor occasional crashes, nor unfinished content. Friendship bonds did not form because players rushed from quest to quest.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
       Ok who let grandpa on the interwebz   :)

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Stow, OHPosts: 1,214Member
    Possibly. But I think what the OP is getting at is it is WAY too far and between to find in today's MMORPG market.
  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Stow, OHPosts: 1,214Member
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by maskedweasel
     

     

    ...When you would become friends with those you grouped with instead of dropping them when the quest is over...


     

    This is the primary reason why MMOs today quickly tank.

    No time to chat. Must rush to the next quest. They are the bulk of xp and rewards. Quest Hubs killed MMOs. Vanguard's slow death is not because of framerate, nor system specs, nor occasional crashes, nor unfinished content. Friendship bonds did not form because players rushed from quest to quest.

    Um...I play Vanguard now, and have made MANY friends that I regularly group with and chat with.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by maskedweasel

     

    Do you remember ...

    When you would log in to an MMO just to be in a different world?

     No. Because i log in to an MMO to be entertained, not to be in a different world. This world is fine.

    When you would hang out in Taverns/Cantinas just to socialize?

     No. I don't play games to socialize.

    When you would create a character build based on what you wanted rather then what was "viable"?

     What i wanted is to be "viable".

    When a game would launch and would not be 100% perfect and that would be OKAY?

     At every game launch. Of course it is ok. What else should i do? Jump up and down? There are plenty of good entertainment to waste time caring about launch problems.

    When you would group up with players for the fun of completing content instead of the rewards?

     Reward is part of completing content.

    When you would become friends with those you grouped with instead of dropping them when the quest is over?

     Last month. Just click "friend list" after the group. It is not even a MMO. It is D3.

    When getting to max level was the least of your concerns?

     Almost every game.

    When playing that MMO was more of an experience then "just another game"?

     MMO is just another game.

    When you could leave a game amicably instead of it being a "failure" or that you "regret buying it"?

     Every game i left. Why would i regret if i play it for a while? I would play a game if it is only fun for me.

    When you would play a game regardless of its payment model because you enjoyed it?

     Every game. If i don;t enjoy a game, why would i play it? (Well, i suppose i may play a demo to find out though).

    When the MMO Experience was actually FUN?

     Yesterday. STO. Very fun story mission.

    What happened to those times?

    Nothing.

     

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,277Member Uncommon

    I'm not saying that I haven't found some of these things in current MMOs,  but it is rare.   

     

    MMOs give players a very distinct experience in comparison to other games.  You are brought into a world,  and you are put in contact with many more people.  Many MMOs today are more interested in cultivating the engine that drives some kind of progression or story to an end-state,  and players are playing them like single player games, where the objective is to get to the end to claim their final rewards.

     

    While most games now are technically more proficient, better coded, better handled, and better looking,  they lose quite a bit of the soul a lot of the players are looking for when playing an MMO.  It doesn't seem that in many MMO's today that players even matter.

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


    image

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,614Member Uncommon
    Before telephones people actually talked face to face...those were the days! image
  • BossalinieBossalinie Hattiesburg, MSPosts: 683Member Uncommon
    I totally use notepad and nothing else to make websites!
  • birdycephonbirdycephon Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 1,314Member

    Guess what though, its not that the times have changes, its the people who changed.

    If you go back and replay all those 'awesome' games, you'll  see that there is hardly anything awesome about them besides your memories.

    The only reason they seemed awsome back in the day, was because thay were the best there was at the time.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,614Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by birdycephon

    Guess what though, its not that the times have changes, its the people who changed.

    If you go back and replay all those 'awesome' games, you'll  see that there is hardly anything awesome about them besides your memories.

    The only reason they seemed awsome back in the day, was because thay were the best there was at the time.

     +1

     

    I've made that point many times here in many discussions but there are many nostalgic die-hards that will argue against it all day long.

  • Saur0nSaur0n Denver, COPosts: 113Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by maskedweasel

     

    Do you remember ...

    When you would log in to an MMO just to be in a different world?

     

    When you would hang out in Taverns/Cantinas just to socialize?

     

    When you would create a character build based on what you wanted rather then what was "viable"?

     

    When a game would launch and would not be 100% perfect and that would be OKAY?

     

    When you would group up with players for the fun of completing content instead of the rewards?

     

    When you would become friends with those you grouped with instead of dropping them when the quest is over?

     

    When getting to max level was the least of your concerns?

     

    When playing that MMO was more of an experience then "just another game"?

     

    When you could leave a game amicably instead of it being a "failure" or that you "regret buying it"?

     

    When you would play a game regardless of its payment model because you enjoyed it?

     

    When the MMO Experience was actually FUN?

     

    What happened to those times?

    It's called Ultima Online and it still exists.   Especially in emulated form.  I don't know why mmorpg.com is so anti-uo emulation when EA even realises that it is legal.  

  • SephastusSephastus New Brunswick, NJPosts: 448Member Uncommon

    I went back to play FFVII. By today's standards, the graphics are horrible, the battle style is ancient, the story, while still good, is pretty straightforward... and on and on...

    But when it launched... The graphics were awesome, the battle style was great and involved, the story had no comparison, and would be a true tear-jerker (yes, did make me tear up), and I enjoyed, and played it several times through.

    What changed? Same thing that changed in MMO: the envioroment, the graphic cap, the expectations and the overall experiences of the consumers.

    It is like the first time you have a sugary snack. It would be the best thing in the world for you. Even if it was just a skittles. But once you grew up and had better refined tastes, now you want some creme-brulee that has been expertly baked by a top chef. And even then it probably doesn't live up to what you expect.

    By the standards we had 15+ years ago, the games coming out now are absolutly intoxicating. But by current standards, many are completely sub-par. By the standards we had 15 years ago, 100k players would be a huge success in online gaming. Today it would be concidered utter failure, or at least a botched release.

    Like someone else already stated, it is not the games that have changed, but the audience.

  • NikopolNikopol The ZonePosts: 626Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by apocoluster
       Ok who let grandpa on the interwebz   :)

    Haha, show some respect, grandpas built the interwebz!

    About the OP. Yeah. I guess we need a new type of MMO for all that to happen. We've sliced this type of MMO down to its bare path of least resistence.

  • MadnessRealmMadnessRealm Montreal, QCPosts: 2,716Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by birdycephon

    Guess what though, its not that the times have changes, its the people who changed.

    If you go back and replay all those 'awesome' games, you'll  see that there is hardly anything awesome about them besides your memories.

    The only reason they seemed awsome back in the day, was because thay were the best there was at the time.

     +1

     

    I've made that point many times here in many discussions but there are many nostalgic die-hards that will argue against it all day long.

     

    It has nothing to do with nostalgia, and everything to do with how different the communities are, and how much games have shifted their system compared to their old counterparts.

     

    Older MMOs were developped more as sandboxes or at least giving players as many tools as possible to do what they want to do (UO, SWG, etc).  They would also require the involvement of several players to achieve even basic things such as leveling (EQ, FFXI, etc).  Both of these things created great communities of players that care about more than just themselves, but also the people they play and interact with.

     

    Today's MMOs are very restrictive in terms of what players can do, and are extremely solo-centric. Rather than being about communities, MMOs are about "You".  The need to interact with other players has greatly lessened with the exception of end-game, but the need to develop any relationship was also removed through the addition of PUGs.

     

    That is not to say that older MMOs were perfect, by no mean were they even close. However, to claim that our preference to older MMOs is purely out of nostalgia, considering how different the games and communities were compared to today, is just pure ignorance.

     

    ------
    Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  • Saur0nSaur0n Denver, COPosts: 113Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MadnessRealm
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by birdycephon

    Guess what though, its not that the times have changes, its the people who changed.

    If you go back and replay all those 'awesome' games, you'll  see that there is hardly anything awesome about them besides your memories.

    The only reason they seemed awsome back in the day, was because thay were the best there was at the time.

     +1

     

    I've made that point many times here in many discussions but there are many nostalgic die-hards that will argue against it all day long.

     

    It has nothing to do with nostalgia, and everything to do with how different the communities are, and how much games have shifted their system compared to their old counterparts.

     

    Older MMOs were developped more as sandboxes or at least giving players as many tools as possible to do what they want to do (UO, SWG, etc).  They would also require the involvement of several players to achieve even basic things such as leveling (EQ, FFXI, etc).  Both of these things created great communities of players that care about more than just themselves, but also the people they play and interact with.

     

    Today's MMOs are very restrictive in terms of what players can do, and are extremely solo-centric. Rather than being about communities, MMOs are not about "You".  The need to interact with other players has greatly lessened with the exception of end-game, but the need to develop any relationship was also removed through the addition of PUGs.

     

    That is not to say that older MMOs were perfect, by no mean were they even close. However, to claim that our preference to older MMOs is purely out of nostalgia, considering how different the games and communities were compared to today, is just pure ignorance.

     

    I totaly agree.  Especially since the old mmos were fishing new waters.  No one knew where the industry was heading back then so the mistakes that were made were life lessons.  Now they are just neglegence.  However, I found the WAR community and the current LOTRO community to be awsome and totally make the games more fun despite how the critics feel about the game in general.

  • nukempronukempro Hudson, FLPosts: 76Member

    Don't they still make sandbox mmo's? Are the communitys in those just like back in the day? My first mmo was FF11 and I hate the idea of forced grouping to do basic stuff like kill rabbits to lvl up. It created very "exclusive" groups of players that expected you to play a certain way in order to maximize the exp gain per hour. Fun was never a consideration, only the most effiecient way to lvl. I was so happy the first time I played wow and found out I don't need to LFG for a tank and a healer to kill rats. I made far more friends in wow then in FF11 and some of those friends I still have to this day..in spite of moving on from wow years ago.

     

    Those old sandbox games where more like 2nd jobs then games. And when a game becomes like a job I no longer play it, hence why I quit wow. Back then the community for mmos was more tightly knit. It was a niche genre that barely anyone knew about. If you made a bad name for yourself you where screwed...theses days there are so many mmos and most of them allowe name changes and server transfers...we are also dealing with a different generation of gamers.

  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member

    I keep posting this, no one gets it.

    Diminishing Marginal Utility

    The experience and enjoyment you had while playing games of the past, will unlikely happen again.  Atleast not in the same way.  The "perfect" MMO can be released tomorrow and you would not derive the same amount of enjoyment from it as you did your first couple of MMO's.  Put future games you play into this context.

    Only way around this is to unplug from MMO's and the MMO community.  Approach the genre again years from now.  Im guessing 5 years or more.

    image

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,614Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MadnessRealm
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by birdycephon

    Guess what though, its not that the times have changes, its the people who changed.

    If you go back and replay all those 'awesome' games, you'll  see that there is hardly anything awesome about them besides your memories.

    The only reason they seemed awsome back in the day, was because thay were the best there was at the time.

     +1

     

    I've made that point many times here in many discussions but there are many nostalgic die-hards that will argue against it all day long.

     

    It has nothing to do with nostalgia, and everything to do with how different the communities are, and how much games have shifted their system compared to their old counterparts.

     

    Older MMOs were developped more as sandboxes or at least giving players as many tools as possible to do what they want to do (UO, SWG, etc).  They would also require the involvement of several players to achieve even basic things such as leveling (EQ, FFXI, etc).  Both of these things created great communities of players that care about more than just themselves, but also the people they play and interact with.

     

    Today's MMOs are very restrictive in terms of what players can do, and are extremely solo-centric. Rather than being about communities, MMOs are not about "You".  The need to interact with other players has greatly lessened with the exception of end-game, but the need to develop any relationship was also removed through the addition of PUGs.

     

    That is not to say that older MMOs were perfect, by no mean were they even close. However, to claim that our preference to older MMOs is purely out of nostalgia, considering how different the games and communities were compared to today, is just pure ignorance.

     

    I wondered how long the "S" word would take to come out as well as the mention of those magical communities of old. I have nothing against looking at the world through rose-colored glasses--heck I do it myself at times--but I'm just not comfortable deluding myself into thinking that I'm not wearing them.

    MMOs AND society in general have changed tremendously since UO, AC and EQ were the only games in town...even since the days when DAoC, SWG and even WOW first came into the scene.

    There was no Facebook, and IM, text messaging and twitter hadn't shortened the way we communicate irrevocably to the point where saying "Word" is considered a clever quip. People socialized more in MMOs back then because any type of socialization through electronic text was a relatively new shiny toy... now it's just the way of the world.

    Those wonderful old communities you contend were a magical part of good MMO design were nothing more than a byproduct of MMO gamers being a small sub-set of the population that was generally more committed to our unique and rather exclusive little hobby... and we were chattier just because communicating that way was a relatively new thing that not many people i the mainstream even knew about.

    MMORPGs are now played by the mainstream masses who routinely communicate electronically as briefly as possible. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with Sandboxes nor solo play nor any of the other tired old cliched mmorpg.com forum reasons. It's just 2013. You're looking for sophisticated game-design reasons for your relative lack of enjoyment when all that has happened is that games, gamers and society have just evolved rather quickly.

    It amuses me how people like you like to throw the word "ignorant" around while at the same time ignoring the obvious.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,784Member Uncommon

    For some of the questions, the answer is:  nope, I've never seen a game that was like that.

    For the rest, the answer is:  it still is like that, at least the way I play.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by maskedweasel

     

    Do you remember ...

    When you would log in to an MMO just to be in a different world? Yup do that ever single day I play an MMO

     

    When you would hang out in Taverns/Cantinas just to socialize?  Nope, I never socialize it takes time away from doing things I find fun.  I enjoy all things related to combat and exploration and the social activities should promote those endeavors and if not I dont play

     

    When you would create a character build based on what you wanted rather then what was "viable"?

    Viable to me is something that is "the best" or min/max'ed to give the greatest DPS for its investment.  Viable to me is fun and anything less reeks of ignorance.

     

    When a game would launch and would not be 100% perfect and that would be OKAY? Umm NO!  I fondly remember that the majority of games who failed is because the game has issues.  Do you not remember even a few short years how the talk of the MMO universe was to release a complete and bug free game?  Because I do, games like AoC and WAR were completely filled with bugs.

     

    When you would group up with players for the fun of completing content instead of the rewards? Nope ive never done this, If im not getting rewarded then whats the point.  Doing things on other peoples terms is not fun for me.

     

    When you would become friends with those you grouped with instead of dropping them when the quest is over? I still do this, my friends list is fairly full in GW2 with good players ive ran dungeons with.

     

    When getting to max level was the least of your concerns? about the only item on this list I agree with

     

    When playing that MMO was more of an experience then "just another game"? Still is, the setting or the game doesnt change this.  If you cant get lost in the lore, the story, the game and the world then its you not me.

     

    When you could leave a game amicably instead of it being a "failure" or that you "regret buying it"?  Nope ever game I have ever left was becasue of paradigm shifts from the developers I didnt agree with (WoW) or the game was a bridge untill my new game came out (TSW).

     

    When you would play a game regardless of its payment model because you enjoyed it?  Still do so but I prefer F2P

     

    When the MMO Experience was actually FUN? Still is

     

    What happened to those times? The're still here, its not my fault you cant find fun in things.

    Rose tinted goggles are a nasty thing.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    I remember when the OP was a SWTOR fanatic.
  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by maskedweasel

     

    Do you remember ...

    When you would log in to an MMO just to be in a different world?

    I can honestly say, I never did that.  Then again, I have never wanted to "escape" from real life, I consider people who want to do that to have serious problems.

     When you would hang out in Taverns/Cantinas just to socialize?

    While there have been times I've done that, mostly when I'm busy chatting with friends and need a place to park my character, I don't use MMOs to socialize in general, I have plenty of friends in RL and I don't need to pretend online.

     When you would create a character build based on what you wanted rather then what was "viable"?

    I still do.

     When a game would launch and would not be 100% perfect and that would be OKAY?

    There's a difference between not being 100% perfect and being broken.  Far too many games launch today that are simply unfinished and are virtually unplayable.  That is not okay.

     When you would group up with players for the fun of completing content instead of the rewards?

    I'd still do that today if anyone else played that way.

     When you would become friends with those you grouped with instead of dropping them when the quest is over?

    It depends on the people.  If they are decent people I had fun talking to, I'd put them on my watch list and talk to them again.  If not, why would I want to be their "friend"?

     When getting to max level was the least of your concerns?

    It still isn't.

     When playing that MMO was more of an experience then "just another game"?

    No, it's not and never has been.  An MMO is just one genre of game, it's played to have fun.  If I play an FPS, it's just another game, if I play a platformer, it's just another  game, why should an MMO be anything different?

     When you could leave a game amicably instead of it being a "failure" or that you "regret buying it"?

    I leave all games amicably when I stop having fun playing them.  How long it takes getting to that point varies by game.

     When you would play a game regardless of its payment model because you enjoyed it?

    That's still the case.  All I want is to have fun.  I really don't care what it costs.

     When the MMO Experience was actually FUN?

    I have no clue what "the MMO Experience" is, it's just a game and, like any game, has to be fun in order for me to take part.

     What happened to those times?

    They're still around, adjusted for the modern reality.  Maybe your expectations are out of line?

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • MadnessRealmMadnessRealm Montreal, QCPosts: 2,716Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin

    MMORPGs are now played by the mainstream masses who routinely communicate electronically as briefly as possible. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with Sandboxes nor solo play nor any of the other tired old cliched mmorpg.com forum reasons. It's just 2013. You're looking for sophisticated game-design reasons for your relative lack of enjoyment when all that has happened is that games, gamers and society have just evolved rather quickly.

    Oh, but it has to do with sandbox/themepark and group/solo play. It has everything to do with it. How else do you think the genre became mainstream? Did it magically happen over night? No. It happened by making features and mechanics increasingly more accessible to a larger audience. Which is not to say that it's necessarily a bad thing, but it's costed us a lot of things those of us who played older MMORPGs enjoy.

     

    MMOs in the past were group-oriented. MMOs today are solo-centric. We had incentive to group in the past, it was more pleasant, and we could achieve a lot more as well. Today, grouping is less efficient than solo play. The need to interact with other players is not present,players are self-sufficient, best gear is through monster loot rather than crafted, etc. Heck, grouping is less rewarding than solo-play because you'll have less gold and items at the end of the run. Players only care about their own advancement and couldn't care less about others.

     

    I'm not looking for a "sophisticated game-design reason for my relative lack of enjoyment". Games have changed their design completely, that's the reality. If you like this design, good for you. I prefer the old one and I find that it's a shame so few MMOs try to bring it back. 

    ------
    Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  • nukempronukempro Hudson, FLPosts: 76Member
    Originally posted by MadnessRealm
    Originally posted by Iselin

    MMORPGs are now played by the mainstream masses who routinely communicate electronically as briefly as possible. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with Sandboxes nor solo play nor any of the other tired old cliched mmorpg.com forum reasons. It's just 2013. You're looking for sophisticated game-design reasons for your relative lack of enjoyment when all that has happened is that games, gamers and society have just evolved rather quickly.

    Oh, but it has to do with sandbox/themepark and group/solo play. It has everything to do with it. How else do you think the genre became mainstream? Did it magically happen over night? No. It happened by making features and mechanics increasingly more accessible to a larger audience. Which is not to say that it's necessarily a bad thing, but it's costed us a lot of things those of us who played older MMORPGs enjoy.

     

    MMOs in the past were group-oriented. MMOs today are solo-centric. We had incentive to group in the past, it was more pleasant, and we could achieve a lot more as well. Today, grouping is less efficient than solo play. The need to interact with other players is not present,players are self-sufficient, best gear is through monster loot rather than crafted, etc. Heck, grouping is less rewarding than solo-play because you'll have less gold and items at the end of the run. Players only care about their own advancement and couldn't care less about others.

     

    I'm not looking for a "sophisticated game-design reason for my relative lack of enjoyment". Games have changed their design completely, that's the reality. If you like this design, good for you. I prefer the old one and I find that it's a shame so few MMOs try to bring it back. 

    A couple things, MMO's back then didn't give "incentive" to group. They required that you group. MMO's these days give you incentive...things like faster exp gain, safer..don't have to worry about dying.(as much) The option to go to areas with "elite" mobs or something similar. That would be incentive.

     

    I also disagree with your assesment of newer MMO's being "solo-centric"...you have the option to solo while lvling...Dungeons/pvp/raids all still require groups. The genre became mainstream because a popular franchise at the time (warcraft) was made into an mmo that didn't rigidly enforce the need for a full group with tank and healer to kill rats. You could actually play at your own pace. Furthermore the total time it took to reach cap wasn't anywhere near as long. The NEED to group with others is still there...just not during lvling...instead you have the OPTION to group. And don't spread lies..in now way shape or form is lvling in a group inferior to lvling solo.

     

    There where other reasons mmos went mainstream..WOW had a lvl of polish not seen in mmo's before it....the whole idea that the community back then was so great is false anyway..I seem to remember plenty of asshats..its just there was less people overall...so less asshats by default!

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