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[General Article] City of Heroes: Profitable or Not?

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  • logandwjlogandwj Member Posts: 25

    Reposting on behalf of chasearcanum from Titan who apparently had an account here but can't currently get in for some reason. 

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    Look at shutdowns that have gone in the past.  Many of the companies have found it profitable and acceptable to pare down resources but leave the servers running until populations are much MUCH smaller than ours were.  This is a community-centric approach that lets the community continue to experience the game as long as the company isn't losing money.  Updates may be slower/fewer, but the servers stay on.  Many MMOs last a very long time in that.

    What causes a more abrupt shutdown of an MMO?
    * Licensing issues. Look at SWG.  The Lucasarts license expired.  Lucasarts kept the license renewed until the new star wars mmo flagship was about to launch, but then terminated it.  Even then, SWG's population was measurably smaller by all metrics and I'd heard jokes that internally SOE's SWG dev team had been pared down so much it was sometimes jokingly said the next step would be "the intern under the stairs."

    For CoH, the IP wouldn't be an issue, but there may have been other licensing expenses.  NCSoft's account management systems and the CoH marketplace were both middleware components that would likely be licensed rather than purchased.  It could be that the way the fees were determined, they were costlier when applied to the CoH business model (for example).  if poorly negotiated, there could be all sorts of agreements that have unforseen costs.

    * Performance issues.  This is what NCSoft used to justify TabulaRasa & AutoAssault, for example.  Both were killed quickly after launch.  On the back-end, both contained significant performace/stability issues that required much more resources to keep them afloat.... even if they cut all new content development to the bone, they just would require too many resources and/or too much development time chasing bugs to make things work.  True or not, that explains an abrupt shutdown.

    For CoH, this is anything BUT likely.  From everything we know, CoH was lean, stable, and streamlined rather well in this regard.

    * Platform issues.  I've experienced this personally- Worked on maintaining a product that we *had to* retire.  It relied on 3rd party components that only worked on an older server OS and the security risks of that older server OS meant we HAD TO upgrade.  Retiring the product was less operationally painful than trying to get it running on the new OS with custom-made parts.

    For CoH, I rate this is "unlikely"-- its possible-- this was the original dev team's first foray into mmo's so they may have unwittingly "painted themselves into a few corners" when it came to platform, portability, and upgradability, but I've neither seen nor heard any hint of such issues on CoH.

    *Ego Although I listed Tabula Rasa under performance, I believe that its shutdown was more driven by ego.  NCsoft loves a blockbuster.  They were HUGE in Asia and hoped to have proportional success in the US market.  They hired a legend, gave him a blank check for his "blank slate" and expected great things that never arrived.  It was an embarrassment.

    What would MORE embarrassing and damaging to ego would be a near-pullout of the US/Euro market.  At the time, with so little working for them, CoH was a small-but-stable anchor that gave them a face-saving example of success in the western market.  It didn't fit with their current lineup.  It didn't fit with their internal philosophy.  It didn't reflect what they wanted to do or be, but it could be pointed to as a financial success, given the money they invested into it and the return they got.  Once GWII came out- something closer to their styles and philosophies, but still uniquely catered to western likings- they had something they could point to as one of their own... more or less...  then, they could finally cut away that redheaded stepchild CoH.   I consider this "more likely than the other reasons given.

    * Finally, there's Resources  One thing that bugged me when rumors of buyers being snubbed was the "why?"  Well, any sale would likely have included the provision that NCSoft continue operations of CoH until hosting and account management could be transferred to a compatible system, and that meant keeping those resources locked up on CoH servers. 

    What if they had already planned a use for those resources?

    City of Heroes runs on virtual servers, but those servers have very real resources allocated to them.  Launching a new title in a new market requires a HUGE investment in new server resources... or you repurpose ones you already have.  Killing a less-profitable product that doesn't fit your design philosophies with one you hope will rake in the money (NCSoft is constantly shooting for blockbusters) so you can use their resources seems logical to the businessman that doesn't think much of its customer base.

    NCSoft was preparing for a Blade & Soul launch in the US not long after the server resources would be freed from the CoH shutdown.  That would offset some of the cost of the B&S launch.  Having a profitable launch is both about reducing costs AND decent sales.  Given that NCSoft's track record in bringing their asian titles to the US, making this launch as cost-effective as possible may have been very critical to the egos (see above) of well-placed people.... people that couldn't allow those CoH resources to remain locked away.  This is purely conjecture, but mostly due to my own experience, I find it to be plausible conjecture.

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    -Logan
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    "Wake UP! Time for SCIENCE!"
    -Adam Savage "Mythbusters"
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  • nyxiumnyxium Member UncommonPosts: 1,345
    Very shadowy and sinister. Was a fan. Money under the table, cloak & dagger stuff. Not impressed.
  • Ironwolf21Ironwolf21 Member Posts: 6

    Server merges were done to move to NCSoft hosting sites in Texas.

     

    You quote Wiki? I was playing the game the entire time. The servers were moved out of Europe due to finding overall the latency was not even an issue. Having all servers in one site saved money and allowed them to run as virtual servers not single hardware units.

    I lived through it. I saw what they did and took part in all of the stress tests.

     

    Now here is the cautionary tale for those who play MMO's - when is YOUR game not making enough? In the past we saw the usual death spiral. NCSoft has closed 5 MMO's on an instant, they didn't slowly drop and in fact City of Heroes was improving with every issue. Issue 24 was possibly the best issue ever in the games history and was never released to live.

    All of this with literally ZERO advertising. During a time when Superheroes went wild in the public eye - what the players of CoH want is very simple - let the IP go.

     

  • logandwjlogandwj Member Posts: 25
    Originally posted by Ironwolf21

    Now here is the cautionary tale for those who play MMO's - when is YOUR game not making enough? In the past we saw the usual death spiral. NCSoft has closed 5 MMO's on an instant, they didn't slowly drop and in fact City of Heroes was improving with every issue. Issue 24 was possibly the best issue ever in the games history and was never released to live.

    All of this with literally ZERO advertising. During a time when Superheroes went wild in the public eye - what the players of CoH want is very simple - let the IP go.

     

    Indeed. At this point I wouldn't WANT NCSoft to take back the reins and re-open the game. I wouldn't trust them not to try and kill it AGAIN. 

     

    Just sell the game/IP/code to a responsible game publisher and allow us to have our city back. 

     

    And the point about other games being at risk is a good one. I don't want to see what happened to Paragon happen to Arenanet and Carbine. But I am almost certain that it WILL happen. Maybe not this year. Maybe not next. But at some point, the axe will fall, and then NCSoft will have another pair of corpses for their MMOKiller throne to sit on top of.

     

    There are graceful and respectful ways to end a game. Look at the recent closure of Glitch. (A game I wish I had played, now.) They did it the RIGHT way. The devs of that game respected their customers, were open with them as to why the game had to close, and did everything possible to make the experience as painless as possible and give people good memories of the game. 

     

    NCSoft's way of treating a game and their customers by contrast has all the warmth and personality of a hooded, silent executioner whose only concession to your comfort is to make his blade as sharp as possible so that he only has to chop your neck a single time to go all the way through. 

    -Logan
    ----------
    "Wake UP! Time for SCIENCE!"
    -Adam Savage "Mythbusters"
    ----------

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 Member Posts: 527
    Originally posted by Ironwolf21
    Now here is the cautionary tale for those who play MMO's - when is YOUR game not making enough? In the past we saw the usual death spiral. NCSoft has closed 5 MMO's on an instant, they didn't slowly drop and in fact City of Heroes was improving with every issue. Issue 24 was possibly the best issue ever in the games history and was never released to live.

    All of this with literally ZERO advertising. During a time when Superheroes went wild in the public eye - what the players of CoH want is very simple - let the IP go.

     

    I highly disagree with this statement entirely because I have seen "my" game die. Some franchises change so much that they are no longer really recognizable from where they began, it is the way of things. Its really no different than other forms of media. We see these sorts of cancelations all the time with tv shows. Some are kept around long enough to make it to sindication (Fringe) and some are cancelled because they do not make enough money thats its worthwhile to keep them around (Eureka). Either way, IF there truly were enough fans around to keep it going, it would be. The simple fact is no matter how much your protest, its dead and gone, and will stay dead and gone because the few times they have tested those waters it was a failure. Look at the letter writing campaign to CBS to save Jericho, and even after all of that fan effort, it was still cancelled after the 2nd season again due to ratings. I do empathize that you love the game enough to go to all of this trouble, but the simple fact is, you are part of a minority that feel that way. NcSoft have no acted irresponsibly in this matter at all based on all of the "evidence" profided in this thread. Even as your fellow fanboy postulates that it was closed down as a matter of ego, its still well within thier responsibility to do so.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • LeperDaveLeperDave Member CommonPosts: 8

    "It is disappointing that such inaccurate information was provided to MMORPG by an anonymous source and is being reported on as news. The operating cost, annual revenue figures and other financial information shared by this anonymous source are simply wrong. The studio was unprofitable before the shutdown. Both NCSOFT and Paragon Studios were incredibly proud of the transition of City of Heroes to a Free to Play business model, but unfortunately it wasn’t enough to support the studio’s needs. We made the difficult decision to close Paragon Studios and sunset City of Heroes because the franchise no longer aligned with the long term profitability goals for the company."

    Let's examine this statement closely, shall we?

    "The studio was unprofitable before the shutdown" Of course it wasn't. By the time of the actual shut down NCSOFT had not collected a single cent from anyone for 3 month, and in fact had dished out refunds

    "We made the difficult decision to close Paragon Studios and sunset City of Heroes because the franchise no longer aligned with the long term profitability goals... "  Again, this does NOT say that the game wasn't earning a profit in at the time of the announcement, or even that it wouldn't continue to do so had they kept the game going.

    This reek of corporate double speak it isn't even funny. Mr. Davis I have one question for you: When are you going to run for office? You'd make a great politician.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910


    Originally posted by Starsman
    Originally posted by lizardbones I have no idea what the F2P date was, and I never mentioned whether the game was profitable or not. The game's sales dropped. Each peak exception quarter was less than the previous exception quarter before it. The game steadily earned less money over time. There's no way to know if the money made was profitable or not. ** edit ** Just put the total sales into a spreadsheet and do a trend line. It'll be pointing down.
    F2P was a few days shy of Q4, 2011. Draw your Trend line from that point, and it will be pointing up.


    DOH! I wasn't reading those charts right. I offer no excuse other than I was at work and not really paying that much attention to the charts.

    This won't look right, but here are the numbers. These are in millions of Won, so 1,000 is 1 billion Won.

    2010 Q1 3,348
    2010 Q2 3,491
    2010 Q3 5,709
    2010 Q4 3,239
    2011 Q1 3,055
    2011 Q2 2,787 <- Sales drop below 3B Won
    2011 Q3 2,812 <- F2P transition starts
    2011 Q4 3,435 <- F2P sales hit, well above 3B Won
    2012 Q1 2,890 <- sales drop below 3B Won
    2012 Q2 2,855 <- sales steady, still below 3B Won
    2012 Q3 ?,??? <- game closes

    Overall, the game's sales were a downward trend. They did get a boost from the F2P transition, and something in Q3 of 2010, but those boosts in sales were temporary.

    I don't think it was the game's sales trends that got it closed, I think the game needed sales of 3B Won to stay open and not have NCSoft mess with the game. It dropped below the 3B point and went F2P. It dropped below the 3B point again and NCSoft closed the game.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • 3-4thElf3-4thElf Member Posts: 489

    I bet the software for City of Heroes 2 is out there.

    After the business shuffle NC's going through finishes we'll get it. I mean competing sequel MMOs never panned out as a good idea.

    a yo ho ho

  • WildFire15WildFire15 Member Posts: 12
    Originally posted by 3-4thElf

    I bet the software for City of Heroes 2 is out there.

    After the business shuffle NC's going through finishes we'll get it. I mean competing sequel MMOs never panned out as a good idea.

    I don't think it ever left the planning stages, sadly

  • 3-4thElf3-4thElf Member Posts: 489
    Originally posted by WildFire15
    Originally posted by 3-4thElf

    I bet the software for City of Heroes 2 is out there.

    After the business shuffle NC's going through finishes we'll get it. I mean competing sequel MMOs never panned out as a good idea.

    I don't think it ever left the planning stages, sadly

    Hey if people can think 9/11 was an inside job and Elvis was an alien then I can dream..

    But I can say I remember seeing some inside info of my own 2 years ago to the contrary. Might have evolved into the Minecraft/LOST sort of game. Still, the IP still exists. If it's purchasable someone could make a profit from a part duex.

    a yo ho ho

  • ukaseukase Member Posts: 1

    Greetings. Allow me to give my opinion.

    First - know that the servers were never merged, per se. The European servers were modified so that anyone could play on them, they were never merged.

    Did CoH make money? Yes. Were they profitable? I believe they were.

    The question is, "what is NCSoft's required rate of return for each Won?" (A Won is the Korean currency, like our US dollar.)

    I don't know the answer to this question. From my perspective - and only my perspective - sitting in front of my computer daily from about 4pm central to about 10pm central on weekdays and midnight or so on weekends, it's my opinion that on Liberty, there were only about 120-130 players on a regular basis. To be clear, players that were not "hidden" - which is something a lot of folks did to avoid annoying invitations or tells from unknown players.

    Based on that, I am thinking that there were probably 1500 to 2000 players on average playing the game at any one time. Obviously, these are not the same people playing all day every day. (that is obvious, isn't it?)

    Was the game in a state of decline? By no means. Did a lot of players leave CoH to play Champions? Yes. Many came back. Some split time.

    Did a lot of players leave CoH for SWToR? oh my - a TON of people - at least a great many people I teamed with left for that game. All these departures hurt. The game was probably hurting before f2p, and those departures certainly didn't help.

    Did f2p help CoH? No, not really. They did help NCSoft make more money, but free to play didn't help a lot of players have a better play experience. Some did eventually subscribe, but a fair amount played for free, never once using the cash shop. I'm sure some of those who subbed used the cash shop as well.

      The closing of CoH is really not what most of the CoH playerbase is upset about. It's the lack of a credible response from NCSoft. All they had to do was say, "We're sorry, but with the weakness of the US dollar and the economy being what it is, CoH isn't making enough money for us."

    Sure, some are going to be sad or mad, regardless. But there is a reason a lot of people are upset. It's this vague and nebulous "refocusing". If the game was losing money, I am of the opinion they could have just said that and we'd be upset for a bit but then get over it. NCSoft's statement of closure made it seem like they were just closing it because they could.

    Further reasons many are anti-NCSoft is the fact that none of their closed titles get played anywhere else. If they don't like the Superhero MMO idea, then sell the rights to the game. Or license it out for someone else to support.

    That's just my two cents -- all yours for free!

    And be advised again, all of the above are my opinion. None of them are wrong, just different.

  • microcmicroc Member Posts: 2
    I found city of heroes last year. one problem with ncsoft and coh was ncsoft did not spend any money promoting coh. dc univers and marvel has more promotion then coh did. issue 24 was in final beta and issue 25 of the game was ready to go to beta. people like myself were waiting to by the new power sets. (bio armor). the last power set water blast was a big hit. the last 3 months of the game ncsoft killed the game...no new accounts...could not buy vip membership to show ncsoft that game could be saved. I was on the servers on the last night..there we so many people on them virute server crashed 5 or 6 times and global chat crashed.my biggest beef with ncsoft is they did not give coh any time to meet there goals.
  • HoplitesHoplites Member CommonPosts: 463

    If this article is considered "journalism" I am Brigitte Bardot.  I am  with the others NCSFOT has earned a bad reputation and I think has sinked this reputation in the western market IMVHO.

    Boycotting all NCSOFT products is a very good idea.

     

     

  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,088

    Just like when SOE decided to pull the plug on SWG, you will never learn the real reason. It wouldn't matter anyway,

    With a decision like this they expect some player outcry. To actually change the decision, it has to be really massive.

    In the end those companies are just like any commercial company where profit prospects rule. Which isn't an exact science.

  • NoyjitatNoyjitat Member Posts: 39
    Originally posted by Volkanik

    I really don't understand the need for the continual dissection of why City of Heroes was closed down.  Look at the player number figures from around Q3 of 2009 and you'll see a steady trend downward.  It was an old game that people gradually stopped playing.  Simple as that.

    I played the game for many years (it was my first MMO and the only one that held me more than a few months), so believe me when I say I was as saddened to see it go as anyone, but there seems to be an unwillingness by many to accept the very simple facts about its demise.

    Seriously, let it go already.

    Yet another clueless expert. Why would we be looking at 2009 since that was right after the pvp changes. Ofcourse things were bad then for awhile.

    Did you play from freedom launch until the end? Did you know about the paragon market and its huge success at generating way more money than subscribers ever generated? Did you notice the servers becoming more and more crowded even before the announcement? At one point alteast 2 servers were always in the red (nearly full mark) while the rest were yellow with one or 2 sometimes being green. And the vip server was often full.

    This game wasn't dying. Subscribers and player population were increasing with every issue update. Some players and subscribers were easily spending 30 - 50$ a month on the market (some every week) When you break numbers like that down a 50$ purchase is like buying 3 months of the game.

    The game wasn't dead, nor was it dying. Had further development been allowed to continue the game population would of only continued to grow and they would still be making that extra revenue that they don't seem to care about.

    image,image

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 Member Posts: 527
    Originally posted by Noyjitat
    Originally posted by Volkanik

    I really don't understand the need for the continual dissection of why City of Heroes was closed down.  Look at the player number figures from around Q3 of 2009 and you'll see a steady trend downward.  It was an old game that people gradually stopped playing.  Simple as that.

    I played the game for many years (it was my first MMO and the only one that held me more than a few months), so believe me when I say I was as saddened to see it go as anyone, but there seems to be an unwillingness by many to accept the very simple facts about its demise.

    Seriously, let it go already.

    Yet another clueless expert. Why would we be looking at 2009 since that was right after the pvp changes. Ofcourse things were bad then for awhile.

    Did you play from freedom launch until the end? Did you know about the paragon market and its huge success at generating way more money than subscribers ever generated? Did you notice the servers becoming more and more crowded even before the announcement? At one point alteast 2 servers were always in the red (nearly full mark) while the rest were yellow with one or 2 sometimes being green. And the vip server was often full.

    This game wasn't dying. Subscribers and player population were increasing with every issue update. Some players and subscribers were easily spending 30 - 50$ a month on the market (some every week) When you break numbers like that down a 50$ purchase is like buying 3 months of the game.

    The game wasn't dead, nor was it dying. Had further development been allowed to continue the game population would of only continued to grow and they would still be making that extra revenue that they don't seem to care about.

    [citation needed]

    The games own financials do not paint that picture.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • grimgryphongrimgryphon Member CommonPosts: 682

    Geez, can we just let it go already.It's over.

    This is worse than seeing Kim Kardashian plastered all over the media.

    Optional PvP = No PvP
  • NoyjitatNoyjitat Member Posts: 39

    That data you're reading isn't even the same data were talking about. Because that data isn't available to you or anyone outside of ncsoft to view. You can't see profit totals. And of the data that is actually available it doesn't include cashshop profits.

    I won't try to argue with a bunch of clueless fools however. I mean how could you understand if you were not even playing the game.

    image,image

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 Member Posts: 527
    Originally posted by Noyjitat

    That data you're reading isn't even the same data were talking about. Because that data isn't available to you or anyone outside of ncsoft to view. You can't see profit totals. And of the data that is actually available it doesn't include cashshop profits.

    I won't try to argue with a bunch of clueless fools however. I mean how could you understand if you were not even playing the game.

    So everyone is a fool because according to all of the data we do have you are incorrect? Care to offer something besides your own anecdotes as evidence? And you would actually be incorrect in that assumption. I played at release and left right before CoV was released and went to WoW (Hamidon showed me just how awesome raiding was) and came back a couple months ago due to a number of players attempting to tell me how awesome the game was (housing and complete lack of challenge) and I wanted hands on experience. Suffice it to say, with the f2p restrictions and still complete lack of challenge or really anything to play for (except badges?) I can say I was no having a good time with how antiquated the game felt. Seeing that they had not changed any of the powerleveling, and having entire power sets that really offered no real reason to bring to groups left me very soured. The only thing I can say that actually felt awesome was the super speed/super jump travel powers. The rest of it sucked.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Member UncommonPosts: 4,775

    The question isn't whether the game was profitable, obviously it was. The question is was it profitable enough in NCSofts eyes to continue the game, the answer to that is obviously not. 

     

    They have to weigh whether the cost of of maintaining the game and servers, continued development, and the hefty cost of marketing and advertisements to keep new players coming in is worth the level of protit gained. I mean if you can trade a 20 dollar bill for 25 dollars thats worth it, having to drive 25 miles to do so changes that. There are variables in play that you simply can't know without being part of NCSoft. 

    Marketing alone is going to be hefty and yield little to no profit in the long run. With the age of CoH and the fact that there are competing games in the same genre and sub genre it decreases the effectiveness of marketing and advertising the game. 

    Marketing alone can end up costing them around $500 per new player. What that means is that before any return on that marketing and advertising investment is seen they need to get $500 from each of those new players. 

     

    If CoH was profitable enough to warrant keeping it up and running, NCSoft would have kept it up and running. To think otherwise is asinine. Companies just don't decide to quit making money. What has happened is simple, NCSoft with access to data we do not, decided that CoH was not profitable enough to warrant the continued costs and drain on other resources and man power. 

     

    It's business, it's not like they suddenly decided they hate CoH players and shut the game down to spite them even if it cost them a great deal of money. 

    I'm assuming most of you in this discussion are adults. Act like it for gods sake. 

     

     

  • Moe4871Moe4871 Member UncommonPosts: 36
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    The question isn't whether the game was profitable, obviously it was. The question is was it profitable enough in NCSofts eyes to continue the game, the answer to that is obviously not. 

     

    They have to weigh whether the cost of of maintaining the game and servers, continued development, and the hefty cost of marketing and advertisements to keep new players coming in is worth the level of protit gained. I mean if you can trade a 20 dollar bill for 25 dollars thats worth it, having to drive 25 miles to do so changes that. There are variables in play that you simply can't know without being part of NCSoft. 

    Marketing alone is going to be hefty and yield little to no profit in the long run. With the age of CoH and the fact that there are competing games in the same genre and sub genre it decreases the effectiveness of marketing and advertising the game. 

    Marketing alone can end up costing them around $500 per new player. What that means is that before any return on that marketing and advertising investment is seen they need to get $500 from each of those new players. 

     

    If CoH was profitable enough to warrant keeping it up and running, NCSoft would have kept it up and running. To think otherwise is asinine. Companies just don't decide to quit making money. What has happened is simple, NCSoft with access to data we do not, decided that CoH was not profitable enough to warrant the continued costs and drain on other resources and man power. 

     

    It's business, it's not like they suddenly decided they hate CoH players and shut the game down to spite them even if it cost them a great deal of money. 

    I'm assuming most of you in this discussion are adults. Act like it for gods sake. 

     

     

    This.

     

     

    Everyone needs to fricking grow up. I'm tired of all the crying. I'm tired of all the "vengeful threats" toward NCSoft. I'm tired of all the dissecting of the game's shutdown. CoH was my first MMO and I loved it, but it's closure doesn't make me sad. Why? Because I'm an adult and I don't let a freaking computer game control my emotions and the way I live.

    Alot of these boycotters and protesters need to sit down and think about how much of their time they are wasting. All these movements just to avenge CoH are fruitless simply because the followers are caught up in the emotion of the game's sunset. Eventually, all the passion and fervor will wear off and everyone is back to their lives having moved on. There have been a couple of very enjoyable and promising MMOs that were closed. Although they are mentioned occasionally, they are no longer a controversy, and it will eventually be the same case for City of Heroes. Sorry, but that's just how it goes. If a game closes, find another one.

     

  • WildFire15WildFire15 Member Posts: 12
    Originally posted by 3-4thElf
    Originally posted by WildFire15
    Originally posted by 3-4thElf

    I bet the software for City of Heroes 2 is out there.

    After the business shuffle NC's going through finishes we'll get it. I mean competing sequel MMOs never panned out as a good idea.

    I don't think it ever left the planning stages, sadly

    Hey if people can think 9/11 was an inside job and Elvis was an alien then I can dream..

    But I can say I remember seeing some inside info of my own 2 years ago to the contrary. Might have evolved into the Minecraft/LOST sort of game. Still, the IP still exists. If it's purchasable someone could make a profit from a part duex.

    I might be wrong, but the most I heard of a possible CoH2 was that it was shot down fairly earlier (I think there's some concept art floating about). I think the planned systems did evolve into something else, so you might be right.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,897

    It's often a case of "profitable enough".  They'd rather spend their money elsewhere I guess.

     

    But you have to call BS on the statement that they chose notto sell it because the buyer couldn't maintain the quality CoH players came to expect.  How is shutting down the game permanently a better solution for the players?

  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806
    Originally posted by erictlewis

    I sit here and wonder, if the game was truly making a profit then why shut it down. Usually you only shut down a game that is going down the toilet. In case we had a few games this year that should have been closed but are still going.

    So I am left to wonder why they did this as from what I could tell there were making a profit. So that leads to other questions to why.

    Its not a simple matter of making a profit.  That profit has to be sufficient to match the suits expectations.  That gets into all manner of value judgements.  Bottom line, NCsoft did what its suits decided to, and neither Paragon nor its players have any recourse.

    What IS known how ever, is NCsofts past record of axing western games. If I remember right, its five or six at this point. 

    That being the case, a western studio would have to be ignorant and/or desperate to choose NCsoft as their publisher. Neither of which bodes well for the studio or its players.

    Especially these days when Nexon is their largest share holder. Nexon makes NCsoft look saintly...

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-08/nexon-buys-685-million-stake-in-ncsoft-becomes-biggest-holder.html

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910


    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    Originally posted by Noyjitat Originally posted by Volkanik I really don't understand the need for the continual dissection of why City of Heroes was closed down.  Look at the player number figures from around Q3 of 2009 and you'll see a steady trend downward.  It was an old game that people gradually stopped playing.  Simple as that. I played the game for many years (it was my first MMO and the only one that held me more than a few months), so believe me when I say I was as saddened to see it go as anyone, but there seems to be an unwillingness by many to accept the very simple facts about its demise. Seriously, let it go already.
    Yet another clueless expert. Why would we be looking at 2009 since that was right after the pvp changes. Ofcourse things were bad then for awhile. Did you play from freedom launch until the end? Did you know about the paragon market and its huge success at generating way more money than subscribers ever generated? Did you notice the servers becoming more and more crowded even before the announcement? At one point alteast 2 servers were always in the red (nearly full mark) while the rest were yellow with one or 2 sometimes being green. And the vip server was often full. This game wasn't dying. Subscribers and player population were increasing with every issue update. Some players and subscribers were easily spending 30 - 50$ a month on the market (some every week) When you break numbers like that down a 50$ purchase is like buying 3 months of the game. The game wasn't dead, nor was it dying. Had further development been allowed to continue the game population would of only continued to grow and they would still be making that extra revenue that they don't seem to care about.
    [citation needed]

    The games own financials do not paint that picture.




    CoH was hovering around 1% of NCSoft's total earnings. GW2 is something like 25% or 50% of their total earnings. Advertising both games on a site like MMORPG.com would cost exactly the same for both games. The expected return for GW2 would be much greater than CoH. Why would NCSoft expend that money on CoH?

    Once games get to a certain age, games don't have a good return on investment for advertising or even expansions. The games get a bump in sales, but the sales then return to pre-bump lows. That's what CoH's financials show. A game that wasn't going to get more sales*, advertising or no.

    * They did have $95k more sales per quarter after the F2P transition compared to before the transition. That would take the game from $10m a year to $10.4m a year. Apparently, that wasn't enough.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

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