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Some questions on Hauling

BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

So I made one unsuccessful run in my Badger II (net loss) and one successful run for a net profit.

But I also found I could make 2x the isk in the same time using my Retreiver and filling her up with Ore.

~12,000 m3 in my Badger II and ~25,000 m3 Ore storage in my Reteiver.

I feel like I'm really doing something wrong...

I tried to use some website to figure out price differences in different sectors, but it wasn't working.

Anyone got a link or post a guide about trading/hauling?

 

I see on the market there is a section for "Trade Goods" but I couldn't find anything with a decent sized profit margain - I probably have to figure out going price for said goods in other regions of space?

With only 12,000m3 I didn't want to be jumping halfway across the galaxy for less than a million in profit.

Cause again in my Retreiver I could make 4.5 or so million in less time and 1-2 jumps. (I do having Mining 5 and Refining 5 + some specific ore refining/efficiency skils).

 

I'm only a few days training time away from the Tier 2 transport ships (Blockade Runner etc.) and being able to fit them with all the Cloaking and MWD and such I want...

I just need to figure out now where to go and what to haul!

I understand many/most haulers keep their profit generating routes to themselves - for obvious reasons.

Help?

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Comments

  • willo248willo248 londonPosts: 346Member

    Firstly can you clear something up. 

    Are you trying to do NPC distribution missions, player contract hauling, or trading?

  • JakdstripperJakdstripper logan lake, BCPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon
    sounds to me like he is buying in one sector and trying to sell it in on other sector....really hard to make money unless you have a lot of alts to check prices all over the map, and you know exactly what is going on all over.
  • DerrosDerros Posts: 1,076Member Uncommon

    I usually just stick with my mackinaw to make money, but from my understanding straight out NPC hauling, trade goods and such, is not the way to go,

     

    The real money comes from hauling for other players through contracts.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,262Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    So I made one unsuccessful run in my Badger II (net loss) and one successful run for a net profit.

    But I also found I could make 2x the isk in the same time using my Retreiver and filling her up with Ore.

    ~12,000 m3 in my Badger II and ~25,000 m3 Ore storage in my Reteiver.

    I feel like I'm really doing something wrong...

    I tried to use some website to figure out price differences in different sectors, but it wasn't working.

    Anyone got a link or post a guide about trading/hauling?

     

    I see on the market there is a section for "Trade Goods" but I couldn't find anything with a decent sized profit margain - I probably have to figure out going price for said goods in other regions of space?

    With only 12,000m3 I didn't want to be jumping halfway across the galaxy for less than a million in profit.

    Cause again in my Retreiver I could make 4.5 or so million in less time and 1-2 jumps. (I do having Mining 5 and Refining 5 + some specific ore refining/efficiency skils).

     

    I'm only a few days training time away from the Tier 2 transport ships (Blockade Runner etc.) and being able to fit them with all the Cloaking and MWD and such I want...

    I just need to figure out now where to go and what to haul!

    I understand many/most haulers keep their profit generating routes to themselves - for obvious reasons.

    Help?

    Spock w/e you do, DO NOT afk by an asteroid belt! No matter the sector! Not even 30 secs!  Lost a weeks worth a work that way. I grabbed my chicken patties out the oven, came back and my EVE career was over :(

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    Trading / hauling wasn't my forte but I can give a few general tips.

    If you're hauling in high sec then use whatever ship in your hangar has the biggest cargo bay.  Eventually you'll want to work your way up to a freighter.

    It's good you're training for the blockade runner, they're great ships if you plan on leaving high sec.  I knew a few players who used to run level 3 & 4 hauling missions in low sec with them and they said it was decent ISK.  The payouts may have been nerfed since then.

    If you're planning on trading also, don't limit yourself to "trade goods".  Players trade everything from ships to implants to modules.  The way I used to work my trade routes is to setup alts in a few of the busy systems in neighboring regions.  Don't bother training any skills on them, they're purely to watch different markets.  When you see a decent profit margin for an item you send in your main.  Many traders never leave Jita.  They just put in low buy orders and sell higher.

    As you said, don't expect other players to give specifics on what they trade and where.  That's the part you're going to have to figure out.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • ScottgunScottgun Williamsville, NYPosts: 356Member
    It's been awhile since I played, but my guess is you are talking about courier contracts. If you are talking about buying low in one place, hauling it to another to sell it high, then you are really a trader. Now some guys I recall established themselves with full-blown simulations of courier service companies. More power to them I say, but if you are just in it for the isk, forget it. The money's not that good, there is already too much mind-numbing gate jumping as it is and courier runs just multiply that, and the high-paying contracts come with high collateral in to lo-sec areas. Meaning one bad run and you are wiped and back to square one. Unless you have OCD, you soul will be sapped leaving only a burnt-out husk within a week.

    Now we're calling prostitutes "sex workers". What's next? Calling hit men "end-of-life technicians"?

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    How are you rigged. Back in the day I had all the shield skills and armor skills trained to full. That way I could put type 2 shields and armor on to beef up the ship.

    You also got to consider your routes and how your going to get there, and watch out for gate camps.

    Honestly I went out in my raven got the stuff I needed and posted it for sale in nauvula. It been since 2008 since I played eve but you need to make sure you get the right skills trained and get the right stuff fitted in your ship, and also have the certifications needed.

    Hauling can be as dangerous as mining, as that is what folks are looking for an easy mark to blow up and salvage.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by willo248

    Firstly can you clear something up. 

    Are you trying to do NPC distribution missions, player contract hauling, or trading?

    I'm not 100% sure at the moment.

    I don't think I have the patience/dedication for "station trading" which is what I was doing last night, buying low at one station and selling high at another.

    I'll have to try the alt-setup method in some different regions see if I can make NPC Trade Goods trading a legit money maker.

    I will also have to try some distribution missions.

    I've got enough standing with a particular faction from my days doing Combat missions to do Lvl 3 missions, might see what kind of isk I can pull with that about.

    All this is to pass time and build some isk until I get fully fitted into a T2 like a Blockade Runner and can start poking around in Low Sec trading.

    I want to make sure I am well fitted with my Tank and MWD/Cloak before I really start playing in that space.

    I'm less than 24 hours from MWD and Cloak but a couple of days to round out my Passive Tank certs, I've already got a few of the Active tank/manipulation certs at Standard.

    Also want to start finishing up my Core certs up to Standard - got Basic now but a few weeks maybe to Standard.

    I definitely don't think I'm going to go the Freighter route and do High sec trading - too boring.

    But low sec/null runs in a blockade runner sound right up my alley.

    Just have to figure out what goods are in demand out in the lawless space I can pick up in High sec and vice versa...

    Low/Null sec mining sounds like a team effort kind of thing and I want to go solo for a bit before I look into hauling / smuggling for a corp.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by erictlewis

    How are you rigged. Back in the day I had all the shield skills and armor skills trained to full. That way I could put type 2 shields and armor on to beef up the ship.

    I've got all the skills for a decently good passive or active shield tank, but the industrials I can currently fly have jack nothing in the mid slots.

     

  • willo248willo248 londonPosts: 346Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by willo248

    Firstly can you clear something up. 

    Are you trying to do NPC distribution missions, player contract hauling, or trading?

    I'm not 100% sure at the moment.

    I don't think I have the patience/dedication for "station trading" which is what I was doing last night, buying low at one station and selling high at another.

    I'll have to try the alt-setup method in some different regions see if I can make NPC Trade Goods trading a legit money maker.

    I will also have to try some distribution missions.

    I've got enough standing with a particular faction from my days doing Combat missions to do Lvl 3 missions, might see what kind of isk I can pull with that about.

    All this is to pass time and build some isk until I get fully fitted into a T2 like a Blockade Runner and can start poking around in Low Sec trading.

    I want to make sure I am well fitted with my Tank and MWD/Cloak before I really start playing in that space.

    I'm less than 24 hours from MWD and Cloak but a couple of days to round out my Passive Tank certs, I've already got a few of the Active tank/manipulation certs at Standard.

    Also want to start finishing up my Core certs up to Standard - got Basic now but a few weeks maybe to Standard.

    I definitely don't think I'm going to go the Freighter route and do High sec trading - too boring.

    But low sec/null runs in a blockade runner sound right up my alley.

    Just have to figure out what goods are in demand out in the lawless space I can pick up in High sec and vice versa...

    Low/Null sec mining sounds like a team effort kind of thing and I want to go solo for a bit before I look into hauling / smuggling for a corp.

    Basically if you plan on trading in low/null the goods that are going to be in most demand are the modules and ammo used in pvp. This means faction ammo, warp scrams etc. just look up some pvp fits. You can make an aweful lot of money providing these goods. 

    Personally I'm primarily a mission runner, explorer and I dabble in small fleet/solo pvp. I find it is very satisfying to be trading on the backburner while im also doing the mentioned activities. It is very nice to have a constant supply of 'AFK isk'

    if you are unsure what you would like to focus on I know that a lot of players like to combine all three: trading, player contracts, and npc hauling missions. What you can do is set out by accepting a lot of npc hauling missions (You can accept multiple missions from the same agent). Then plan a route through all the systems. Look through the player contracts and see if you can find any contracts that include the systems along the route. Lastly look at all the stops and see if you can work out any items that you could make a profit by trading there. Rinse and repeat. 

    This can get a little complicated and you would need a decent sized hauler however it is probably the best way to make isk using hauling.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by willo248

    Basically if you plan on trading in low/null the goods that are going to be in most demand are the modules and ammo used in pvp. This means faction ammo, warp scrams etc. just look up some pvp fits. You can make an aweful lot of money providing these goods. 

    Personally I'm primarily a mission runner, explorer and I dabble in small fleet/solo pvp. I find it is very satisfying to be trading on the backburner while im also doing the mentioned activities. It is very nice to have a constant supply of 'AFK isk'

    if you are unsure what you would like to focus on I know that a lot of players like to combine all three: trading, player contracts, and npc hauling missions. What you can do is set out by accepting a lot of npc hauling missions (You can accept multiple missions from the same agent). Then plan a route through all the systems. Look through the player contracts and see if you can find any contracts that include the systems along the route. Lastly look at all the stops and see if you can work out any items that you could make a profit by trading there. Rinse and repeat. 

    This can get a little complicated and you would need a decent sized hauler however it is probably the best way to make isk using hauling.

    Thanks!

    I'm sure this whole process is going to take me a while to figure out, thankfully I have some training time to go before I feel like I'd be "ready" to start dabbling in the more risky stuff.

    Also thankfully I have some means now to make isk while I wait for skill train -

    But I also might just buy a Plex to jump start my business.

  • willo248willo248 londonPosts: 346Member

    Nice, personally i'm not good enough at planning and I just get a little bogged down in it all. 

    A friend who recently came into the game does this and I think be bought a plex, he's now flying a capital freighter after just a few months of play.

    The biggest hint I can give you is: Jita is not the cheapest place!! 

    A lot of people assume Jita is the cheapest place to get anything, not true it is worth checking the surrounding systems first at the very least.

  • ChramChram sigilPosts: 91Member

    OP, as you have probably found out already, you can't really make any decent income buying and hauling/selling trade goods. It gets a bit more interesting if you try to sell in low sec, but the associated risk and opportunity cost is still too damn high. It was the same with me when I started out long time ago, I tried hard to make it work but found it ultimately frustrating - one of the reasons being that you can't dump all your volume into one station with a great price - the price will get adjusted lower when you sell a certain amount and it will cut the profit heavily. But it was not all bad, I learned quite a bit about the market, explored a big chunk of space and learned how to handle myself in low sec (and learned that it was not that dangerous after all), all of which came handy afterwards. But still, you should move on eventually.

    I think the system was originally intended as a gentle introduction into the workings of a market, but it is not meant to be used as a full time profession. Real money can be made by selling to players instead to NPCs. The more remote the location and bigger the demand (low sec faction warfare hub for example), the bigger the profits. Some null sec markets can have ridiculous margins added to the goods and are extremely profitable - but those are best supplied by traders who know what they are doing and can handle themselves. Good money can still be made selling in high sec, one just has to look for opportunities and do some research. It often happens organically, for example a player running security missions, fw or whatever in a certain area notices a lack of some kind of items in the nearby systems, hauls them in himself, sells them for a nice profit and builds a trading operation from there.

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Spock w/e you do, DO NOT afk by an asteroid belt! No matter the sector! Not even 30 secs!  Lost a weeks worth a work that way. I grabbed my chicken patties out the oven, came back and my EVE career was over :(

    No. Your EVE career was over the moment you undocked something you couldn't afford to lose.

     

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Yeah the more and more I read and research the more it looks like the big corps out in Null and Lowsec have their own networks of jump freighters and use neutral freighter alts in Empire space etc. etc. and there just isn't much room for a independant transport pilot to really make much of a career out of it.

    I'm not giving up though - I'll figure something out.

  • krulerkruler PerthPosts: 340Member Uncommon

    I  made a fair amout hauling on player contracts, mostly vast ore amounts to the budding builders/industralists and the odd corp contract to relocate.

    I will use one example as a good thing to keep and eye open for, and sorry to anyone doing these runs now, Jita to Wuos, 8 jumps, wuos and surrounding systems have high demand for shuttles of all things, dont over look the simple things, sometimes the cheap but high volume slow burner sales all add up, and AMMO, in wuos case it was mostly t2 and faction missile that always sold well.

    Other good runs where sharlehund (vague spelling aint so anal as to mem all the places ) and surrounding areas those were normaly big ore moves.

    It isnt the fastest way to make isk, but as your mostly in high sec its a good afk money maker, ganking risk less than mining as frieghters can take a bit more and ganker only has a certain window, plus your bouncing high sec gates with carebear patrols and sentries so AFK money runs are safer than mining afk.

    But as you already noticed the big money is in contracts to low/null, but bear in mind some contracts are traps just to bring your sorry ass in, I never ran contracts to low sec dead end systems was one golden rule I had when choosing a run.

    There is no God, there is no Devil, nor Angels and Demons, there is only us, surely thats bad enough, for no creature is able to commit such acts of hate and love, sometimes in the same day.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Can you give me some more info on player contracts?

    I know you have to read them carefully as to avoid scams.

    But in general -

    I'd be looking to find players wanting to buy goods - for example something like a million units of Tritanium.

    I'd then take the contract, put up the collateral, and then have to purchase or mine myself the Tritanium and transport it to the station specified by the contract creating player?

    From what I've seen though, the payout on such a contract is only a couple of million, so unless I was able to purchase the needed tritanium for significantly less, I'd make more selling to a freaking NPC station?

    I'm just confused by the whole thing - it seems really, really hard to understand and make money on - yet it should be really simple?

    What am I missing here?

    I can sit and read a book while mining in .5-.7 space and make 8-9 million in an hour using my Retriever and selling raw ore at stations.

    Do most EvE players just use alts to run stuff themselves or corp mates?

    It seems like there is ZERO market for an independant contractor to fill a need outside of NPC trading.

  • AreWeLiveAreWeLive Brockville, ONPosts: 115Member Uncommon

     There are a few Corps in EvE that do contracts all day long, hauling contracts. You get a % of the contract since the corp is your employer.

     You could look on the recruitment forums in Eve or hang out int the recruitment channel and ask about them. Trust goes boths ways so if you get into one do not expectt  be making big isk right away, you will need to build up your rep with them for the big jobs.

    It is a good service and there are some reputable Corps out there that do this, maybe this is what your looking for. In EvE there is something for everyone, you just need to look for it.

     

     

    (Just to add, they might trust you with the bigger jobs now that i think about it, chances are your going to have to put down the security to get it, then get that back and the reward when your job is finished. Only makes sense)

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by AreWeLive

     There are a few Corps in EvE that do contracts all day long, hauling contracts. You get a % of the contract since the corp is your employer.

     You could look on the recruitment forums in Eve or hang out int the recruitment channel and ask about them. Trust goes boths ways so if you get into one do not expectt  be making big isk right away, you will need to build up your rep with them for the big jobs.

    It is a good service and there are some reputable Corps out there that do this, maybe this is what your looking for. In EvE there is something for everyone, you just need to look for it.

    Yeah, I suppose it'd be really smart to join a corp to learn the real tricks of the trade before I make any plans to strike off on my own as an independant privateer type.

     

  • NevulusNevulus Miami Beach, FLPosts: 1,288Member Uncommon

    My main is a scientist, specializing in certain t2 ships and parts, as well as recycling mats for top efficiency. I used to haul for a while, then trade in other parts.

     

    Small bits of advice:

    Setup an alt in Jita, and in other hot spot trade hubs, aka Tash/Amarr, etc etc. Soon you will start to notice where the hot trade routes lay. Check in on prices as much as you can.

    Do not get comfortable hauling even in highsec. Scout out your haul route ahead of time if possible, especially in low sec.

    Make friends. Social engineering goes a long way in making valuable contacts. Information is king. Some of the best haulers, with the best rep, never pick up freelance contracts anymore, they deal directly with low sec pvp corps. Also the more friends u start making the more price info u can begin to gather from reliable sources. 

    Which brings me to my next point, do not trust what you read in chat. There are people out there looking to manipulate the market as much as possible, despite what they say. 

    A quick isk-making scheme once u have a nice hauler is to set buy orders in starter stations for trivial stuff, reprocess it and sell the minerals. For example I have strategic buy orders in 4 starting Amarr stations for the tier 1 hauler the rookies get during the tutorial. I then turn around reprocess it and triple my money by selling the ore elsewhere. This method was a lot more protfiable when agents were classified by ratings, and only certain hotpots were home to the high-skilled PVErs. You could then do the same flip with trivial loot most were too lazy to reprocess themselves.

    With the right skills trading will always be more profitable than hauling in the beginning. I guess i enjoyed it more coming from a Stock Broker background. With the right skills you can reach far and wide from just sitting in one station. I do the same with research and invention (big isk maker).

     

     

  • ChramChram sigilPosts: 91Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    It seems like there is ZERO market for an independant contractor to fill a need outside of NPC trading.

    There is a huge amount amount of unmet demad, it just isn't obvious until you yourself need that one damn thing and it is 12 jumps away. I lived in a remote low sec for some time and the market there was abyssmal, I often had to supply myself hauling from high sec 10+ low sec jumps. I would obviously prefer to buy locallly, even at an premium. And situations like these can be found in high sec too.

  • willo248willo248 londonPosts: 346Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Can you give me some more info on player contracts?

    I know you have to read them carefully as to avoid scams.

    But in general -

    I'd be looking to find players wanting to buy goods - for example something like a million units of Tritanium.

    I'd then take the contract, put up the collateral, and then have to purchase or mine myself the Tritanium and transport it to the station specified by the contract creating player?

    From what I've seen though, the payout on such a contract is only a couple of million, so unless I was able to purchase the needed tritanium for significantly less, I'd make more selling to a freaking NPC station?

    I'm just confused by the whole thing - it seems really, really hard to understand and make money on - yet it should be really simple?

    What am I missing here?

    I can sit and read a book while mining in .5-.7 space and make 8-9 million in an hour using my Retriever and selling raw ore at stations.

    Do most EvE players just use alts to run stuff themselves or corp mates?

    It seems like there is ZERO market for an independant contractor to fill a need outside of NPC trading.

    I believe your looking at buy contracts. 

    There are also transport contracts. In which someone will want 1m units of tritanium transported from Jita to Amarr for example. When you accept the contract you will need to be in Jita nad you will get the 1m units of trit aswell as paying a deposit probably worth more than the trit. 

    On arival at amarr you will be able to complete the contract getting payment for the service aswell as your deposit back.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by willo248

    I believe your looking at buy contracts. 

    There are also transport contracts. In which someone will want 1m units of tritanium transported from Jita to Amarr for example. When you accept the contract you will need to be in Jita nad you will get the 1m units of trit aswell as paying a deposit probably worth more than the trit. 

    On arival at amarr you will be able to complete the contract getting payment for the service aswell as your deposit back.

    Hmm I need to find these transport contracts...

    I haven't really been able to search for them with too much success and I tried in Jita!

    I was going to relocate myself to Amarr space to try a few things tonight, maybe I'll have better luck and be able to pick something up going from Forge to Domain or some such.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Chram
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    It seems like there is ZERO market for an independant contractor to fill a need outside of NPC trading.

    There is a huge amount amount of unmet demad, it just isn't obvious until you yourself need that one damn thing and it is 12 jumps away. I lived in a remote low sec for some time and the market there was abyssmal, I often had to supply myself hauling from high sec 10+ low sec jumps. I would obviously prefer to buy locallly, even at an premium. And situations like these can be found in high sec too.

    Sounds like once I'm ready I need to find those remote low sec stations and start pumping things like Faction Ammo and T2 tech for common Fittings into them.

     

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by willo248

    I believe your looking at buy contracts. 

    There are also transport contracts. In which someone will want 1m units of tritanium transported from Jita to Amarr for example. When you accept the contract you will need to be in Jita nad you will get the 1m units of trit aswell as paying a deposit probably worth more than the trit. 

    On arival at amarr you will be able to complete the contract getting payment for the service aswell as your deposit back.

    Oh, another question -

    If the order is for say 1m unit of tritanium do you have to deliver it all at once?

    It'd take me 4 trips to haul that much in my current Industrial.

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