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Do I really need to be leet?

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  • SmoeySmoey Member UncommonPosts: 599

    Crafting / Resource gathering!

    (\ /) ?
    ( . .)
    c('')('')

  • nerbonnerbon Member Posts: 28
    Originally posted by Merilirem

    Ahem, ----------- Just because a dragon attacks the town, do I really need to fight it? Is fighting really the only path for mmorpgs? Can I not play a smith or simply prance about with my lute singing everyone else's praises? I just have to wonder why it is that I personally have to fight, to save the world, cant someone else do it? And why can't we decide the worlds not worth saving, to side with whatever master of darkness is currently doomed to fall at the hands of the "heroes". Evil never wins, because winners are always just, not because evil always loses. Just because I live in a fantasy world full of dangers, do I have to be someone special, can't I just be some guy who did what he felt like. Even if I had the skills, weapons or could simply smash those werewolves to death with my fists, does it really fall to me...am I an individual, a person, or am I a train...? Do you think the same? I would like to make it clear that antihero is supposed to mean opposition, as in opposed to the hero. Slight wording mistake on my part. This thread simply wants to know how people would like to play. Your vote in no way says you only wish to play a single role, it's just the path you most enjoy. All of the above was not an answer for the sake of defining more specific interests, not because it's not a valid way to enjoy virtual life. Ask as many questions as you wish. The following thread was made in response to questions raised in this one that were not entirely on topic. Please peruse at your leisure.http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/374696/page/1

     

    duuude

    theris no points in playing games without to be leet
    well hacking getting 100k pc gear etc....is all about to be leet
  • nerbonnerbon Member Posts: 28
    Originally posted by Smoey

    Crafting / Resource gathering!

     

    well crafting fat lazy dudes phun

    try crafting at your home...im sure you will find alotsa things to craft
  • Orthus.AkuOrthus.Aku Member Posts: 12

    Originally posted by nerbon

    well crafting fat lazy dudes phun try crafting at your home...im sure you will find alotsa things to craft

     

    What? Hopefully I am not the only one confused on what this post means?

  • MarcelinoMarcelino Member UncommonPosts: 124

    Why is there no option for being a healer of some sort? I'd like to Add an option to that list of choices

    • Doctor, healer of wounds. Clensing players of evil spirits and curse and disease. Proving medical assistant to all those in need.
  • endgame1endgame1 Member Posts: 84
    Wow, before I voted for the bottom most option, I was thinking that I would be in the minority by far. Apparently not.
  • jtcgsjtcgs Member Posts: 1,777

    I didnt pick from the list because I have done more than a few of them before.

    In SWG I had a character that was pure crafter and only killed if I had to when doing harvest runs, ran a business out of my home.

    In LoTRo I basically stood in Bree most of the time playing music or farming as a hobbit.

    Did the whole "soldier" thing in more than a few games like UO, DaoC.

    Had a Character in Asherons Call that I would just explore with and one that was the epic hero type.

    Best story I have is a guildie of mine that played World of Warcraft for the better part of 4 years that didnt do ANYTHING but got drunk in Ogrimmar and the starter zones....never hit level 40.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • MeriliremMerilirem Member Posts: 77
    Originally posted by Marcelino

    Why is there no option for being a healer of some sort? I'd like to Add an option to that list of choices

    • Doctor, healer of wounds. Clensing players of evil spirits and curse and disease. Proving medical assistant to all those in need.

    I forgot. Sorry it's such a simple reason but I honestly didn't put much effort into this thread. I stand by everything I said, I just could have said it better or missed a few points. What's funny is that I always played the healer. I just didn't give it much thought I guess cuz the healer end up killing stuff anyway. It's like "woot I killed 10000 orcs and leveled up my ability to heal people...". 

    If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human?

    Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer?

    If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?

  • MeriliremMerilirem Member Posts: 77
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    I didnt pick from the list because I have done more than a few of them before.

    In SWG I had a character that was pure crafter and only killed if I had to when doing harvest runs, ran a business out of my home.

    In LoTRo I basically stood in Bree most of the time playing music or farming as a hobbit.

    Did the whole "soldier" thing in more than a few games like UO, DaoC.

    Had a Character in Asherons Call that I would just explore with and one that was the epic hero type.

    Best story I have is a guildie of mine that played World of Warcraft for the better part of 4 years that didnt do ANYTHING but got drunk in Ogrimmar and the starter zones....never hit level 40.

    I don't quite understand how having done them makes a difference. It wasn't what would you want to do, but can't. It was what do you enjoy the most. I understand you may have made a slight mistake due to the wording, but that was just cuz they don't really cater to quite a few options. So I had to put in stuff that doesn't exist. Even if some options are possible, they are far from the point of the game. Having to murder a fortress of soldiers to learn more sewing is just plain strange. Or am I the strange one lol?Oh noes a 

    double post

    !!!!!

    If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human?

    Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer?

    If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?

  • OrthelianOrthelian Member UncommonPosts: 1,034
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    We murdered them and jettisoned their corpses into space for the good of the market. The 'correct value for players' in a working multi-market economy is the value determined by players, often arrived at using variables that no computer can or will ever conceive of.

    You underestimate the power of future computers, they will far surpass the collective human intelligence.

    We're talking about now, not the future... or are you from the future and forgot you travelled back in time?

    On that note, are you from the past and not yet aware of what you wrote?

    ‘[...] that no computer can or will ever conceive of.’ — Loktofeit

    Favorites: EQEVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CUPantheon
  • ecla2ecla2 Member Posts: 5
    Originally posted by Merilirem

    Ahem, ----------- Just because a dragon attacks the town, do I really need to fight it? 

     

    Good topic :)

    This question is possibly what might set a MMORPG game apart from a CRPG game.  In the latter, yes .. you really need to fight it.  The game plays out in a linear way .. even the more ambitious titles that give you detailed branches still funnel you to the same endgame cluster.  You fight the dragon, or the game just doesn't end.

    In the former, well .. why can't the sky be the limit?  Do MMOs have an ending?  No?  If not, then you an unravel that all the way - they don't really have middles, or beginnings either.

    Answers:  nope, MMOs sort of do have endings, and "stuff to get through" to get there.  Games where you do a lot of sitting around (and that's okay) may not sell very well .. that's the bottom line.

     

    Aside:

    Of course, "no fighting the dragon" has been part of MMOs for a long time.  It is basically what you are doing in an MMO when you choose not to do/participate in: 

    - raids/events

    -- world bosses

    --- instances/dungeons that are only available at certain times of the day 

    ------ etc

    You don't have to do these things.  You miss out on the xp/rewards etc.  of course  :)

    The option to not "fight the dragon" is out there ... but for those who want to really cut the ties to that kind of thing then the real trick is to play a game where you can still progress your toon (and have fun) while not "fighting it".  Gooood luck :)

    Overly-pretentious verbose narcissistic verbiage goes here

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Saerain
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    We murdered them and jettisoned their corpses into space for the good of the market. The 'correct value for players' in a working multi-market economy is the value determined by players, often arrived at using variables that no computer can or will ever conceive of.

    You underestimate the power of future computers, they will far surpass the collective human intelligence.

    We're talking about now, not the future... or are you from the future and forgot you travelled back in time?

    On that note, are you from the past and not yet aware of what you wrote?

    ‘[...] that no computer can or will ever conceive of.’ — Loktofeit

    Because I am speaking in the present. Unless you know of a special supercomputer somewhere that does it. No current computer will ever be able to identify 'the correct value for players' because of the crazy factors that people will add into their buying decisions. If there was a computer that could figure those things out, you wouldn't need marketing departments.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • Bakkoda24Bakkoda24 Member UncommonPosts: 257
    This would be a refreshing change of pace from the Action-Adventure style that MMO's have adopted.
  • MeriliremMerilirem Member Posts: 77
    Originally posted by ecla2
    Originally posted by Merilirem

    Ahem, ----------- Just because a dragon attacks the town, do I really need to fight it? 

     

    Good topic :)

    This question is possibly what might set a MMORPG game apart from a CRPG game.  In the latter, yes .. you really need to fight it.  The game plays out in a linear way .. even the more ambitious titles that give you detailed branches still funnel you to the same endgame cluster.  You fight the dragon, or the game just doesn't end.

    In the former, well .. why can't the sky be the limit?  Do MMOs have an ending?  No?  If not, then you an unravel that all the way - they don't really have middles, or beginnings either.

    Answers:  nope, MMOs sort of do have endings, and "stuff to get through" to get there.  Games where you do a lot of sitting around (and that's okay) may not sell very well .. that's the bottom line.

     

    Aside:

    Of course, "no fighting the dragon" has been part of MMOs for a long time.  It is basically what you are doing in an MMO when you choose not to do/participate in: 

    - raids/events

    -- world bosses

    --- instances/dungeons that are only available at certain times of the day 

    ------ etc

    You don't have to do these things.  You miss out on the xp/rewards etc.  of course  :)

    The option to not "fight the dragon" is out there ... but for those who want to really cut the ties to that kind of thing then the real trick is to play a game where you can still progress your toon (and have fun) while not "fighting it".  Gooood luck :)

    playing a game in such a way as to avoid what the makers are focusing on will only ever end in frustration, for me atleast. I want a game where everything is made with equivalently equal priority. A game where your ability to fight is not paramount to advancement. One where combat levels have no bearing on the ability to craft or explore. I simply don't think we still need all the old school mechanics that have brought us this far. They worked but are decades old and should advanced in some manner. In no way do I support a game where everyone sits around doing nothing. That's what we do now anyway. If I want to mess around I'd go play second life or something. I'm only interested in the notion offreedom. The freedom to chose whether or not to fight the dragon. The freedom to run away and hide behind something. In a real virtual world people would be doing all sorts of things. Just like in real life, but with more pixies and light sabers. This post is not meant to sound snippy or arrogant, it's kinda early here is all and I'm bored.

     

    Also if I had my way, which I'm working on, I would make the damn dragon come get you if you ignored it for too long. Let it wreck up the place until something kills it. Maybe an epic npc?

    If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human?

    Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer?

    If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by NOS44

    @OP, Yes isn't it sad when destruction is the only path to progression.  Why not be a blacksmith that forges the best steel available to warriors?  Or maybe be the best alchemist in the region that can concoct the potions needed for a political coup's success?  Or maybe you are the best scout of a remote area that can provide escort through the wilds?  I'm thinking of the Sherpas of Everest in the last scenario.   

    The point is why not play an important role in the world without having to be the soldier or the hero or the king?  Surely there are more that aspire to this role in mmos.  If anyone knows of any such game, please broadcast it.

    Why is it sad? It is in human instinct. Why do you think violence focused entertainment is so popular? It is just human nature.

    "Why not be a blacksmith that forges the best steel available to warriors?" .. because that is not fun for me. Because i would much rather be the warrior. That boils down to personal preferences.

    If 99% of the players want to be warriors, and only 1% want to be the blacksmith .. then what do you think the devs are going to make? A warrior game, or a blacksmith game?

  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 5,781
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by NOS44

    @OP, Yes isn't it sad when destruction is the only path to progression.  Why not be a blacksmith that forges the best steel available to warriors?  Or maybe be the best alchemist in the region that can concoct the potions needed for a political coup's success?  Or maybe you are the best scout of a remote area that can provide escort through the wilds?  I'm thinking of the Sherpas of Everest in the last scenario.   

    The point is why not play an important role in the world without having to be the soldier or the hero or the king?  Surely there are more that aspire to this role in mmos.  If anyone knows of any such game, please broadcast it.

    Why is it sad? It is in human instinct. Why do you think violence focused entertainment is so popular? It is just human nature.

    "Why not be a blacksmith that forges the best steel available to warriors?" .. because that is not fun for me. Because i would much rather be the warrior. That boils down to personal preferences.

    If 99% of the players want to be warriors, and only 1% want to be the blacksmith .. then what do you think the devs are going to make? A warrior game, or a blacksmith game?

    Lets say that each "server/shard" has 10,000 players. Your theory would mean that out of those, 100 players want to play a Blacksmith. Wouldn't it be a better game if the warriors could deal with other players for their gear? Wouldn't it be a better game if all the Blacksmiths and all the Bowyers and all the rest of the non-warriors had direct dealings with those pure warrior players?

     

    Once upon a time....

  • MeriliremMerilirem Member Posts: 77
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by NOS44

    @OP, Yes isn't it sad when destruction is the only path to progression.  Why not be a blacksmith that forges the best steel available to warriors?  Or maybe be the best alchemist in the region that can concoct the potions needed for a political coup's success?  Or maybe you are the best scout of a remote area that can provide escort through the wilds?  I'm thinking of the Sherpas of Everest in the last scenario.   

    The point is why not play an important role in the world without having to be the soldier or the hero or the king?  Surely there are more that aspire to this role in mmos.  If anyone knows of any such game, please broadcast it.

    Why is it sad? It is in human instinct. Why do you think violence focused entertainment is so popular? It is just human nature.

    "Why not be a blacksmith that forges the best steel available to warriors?" .. because that is not fun for me. Because i would much rather be the warrior. That boils down to personal preferences.

    If 99% of the players want to be warriors, and only 1% want to be the blacksmith .. then what do you think the devs are going to make? A warrior game, or a blacksmith game?

    Lets say that each "server/shard" has 10,000 players. Your theory would mean that out of those, 100 players want to play a Blacksmith. Wouldn't it be a better game if the warriors could deal with other players for their gear? Wouldn't it be a better game if all the Blacksmiths and all the Bowyers and all the rest of the non-warriors had direct dealings with those pure warrior players?

     

     Main point is that a fair enough number of players are interested in a noncombatant profession. Whether they fight as well is personalpreference, but forcing everyone to fight is like some kind of overdone conscription, drafting all the players by default. An npc merchant can never be as interesting or useful as a crafter or trader. Having rare materials in the game that require luck or prowess to attain and then taking them to a player to make you gear that only a handful of players can own thanks to a limited supply seems much more interesting than grinding points in PVp or something until you can buy a limitless item everyone else can have if they put in the time. It's the personal touch. Just because 99% of the games we play are combat, it doesn't mean we want to do it. The game I would play is one where we get so lost in the world we forget all the stats and guides.

    If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human?

    Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer?

    If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?

  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 5,781
    Originally posted by Merilirem
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by NOS44
     
     

    Lets say that each "server/shard" has 10,000 players. Your theory would mean that out of those, 100 players want to play a Blacksmith. Wouldn't it be a better game if the warriors could deal with other players for their gear? Wouldn't it be a better game if all the Blacksmiths and all the Bowyers and all the rest of the non-warriors had direct dealings with those pure warrior players?

     

     Main point is that a fair enough number of players are interested in a noncombatant profession. Whether they fight as well is personalpreference, but forcing everyone to fight is like some kind of overdone conscription, drafting all the players by default. An npc merchant can never be as interesting or useful as a crafter or trader. Having rare materials in the game that require luck or prowess to attain and then taking them to a player to make you gear that only a handful of players can own thanks to a limited supply seems much more interesting than grinding points in PVp or something until you can buy a limitless item everyone else can have if they put in the time. It's the personal touch. Just because 99% of the games we play are combat, it doesn't mean we want to do it. The game I would play is one where we get so lost in the world we forget all the stats and guides.

    I especially agree with that last sentence. But even though most gamers want to primarily fight, in games that have trades skills almost every player has a crafter. And most gamers want that option as a secondary character.

    Making the true "next generation" MMO is going to have to have a much deeper social aspect inside of the game play. (Notice how I had to say that? Too many Devs think we mean FaceBook, fer cryin' out loud.) And having that deeper social game play includes trade and craft skills, as well as building and organized social meaning in a "worldly"context, complete with player involved politicking and deal making.

    Once upon a time....

  • MeriliremMerilirem Member Posts: 77
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    Originally posted by Merilirem
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by NOS44
     
     

    Lets say that each "server/shard" has 10,000 players. Your theory would mean that out of those, 100 players want to play a Blacksmith. Wouldn't it be a better game if the warriors could deal with other players for their gear? Wouldn't it be a better game if all the Blacksmiths and all the Bowyers and all the rest of the non-warriors had direct dealings with those pure warrior players?

     

     Main point is that a fair enough number of players are interested in a noncombatant profession. Whether they fight as well is personalpreference, but forcing everyone to fight is like some kind of overdone conscription, drafting all the players by default. An npc merchant can never be as interesting or useful as a crafter or trader. Having rare materials in the game that require luck or prowess to attain and then taking them to a player to make you gear that only a handful of players can own thanks to a limited supply seems much more interesting than grinding points in PVp or something until you can buy a limitless item everyone else can have if they put in the time. It's the personal touch. Just because 99% of the games we play are combat, it doesn't mean we want to do it. The game I would play is one where we get so lost in the world we forget all the stats and guides.

    I especially agree with that last sentence. But even though most gamers want to primarily fight, in games that have trades skills almost every player has a crafter. And most gamers want that option as a secondary character.

    Making the true "next generation" MMO is going to have to have a much deeper social aspect inside of the game play. (Notice how I had to say that? Too many Devs think we mean FaceBook, fer cryin' out loud.) And having that deeper social game play includes trade and craft skills, as well as building and organized social meaning in a "worldly"context, complete with player involved politicking and deal making.

    Your definitely right about in game social aspects being vital. The only way I can see of encouraging players to be more involved with eachother is to make it a part of the game. I don't mean add a friend get a prize or anything so silly. I just mean taking away certain privileges that players have taken for granted, but which unintentionally help them ignore one another. The game itself would have to keep its secrets and stop holding their hands every step. The goal being to encourage word of mouth and gossip in game. Many will of course post walkthroughs and such on wiki and other sites, but you can't stop that afterall. I just think a game with more mystery would help players rely on each other to figure it out. I have idea's but the whole endeavor is rather difficult, my opinion may be completely opposite to others. I just know its not an easy fix kinda problem. Also supporting the many choices players make with things like player owned stalls, shops etc. make it so you can't just click some buttons and find what you want. Convienience can spoil people afterall. If they want to play they should have to play.

    If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human?

    Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer?

    If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by NOS44

    @OP, Yes isn't it sad when destruction is the only path to progression.  Why not be a blacksmith that forges the best steel available to warriors?  Or maybe be the best alchemist in the region that can concoct the potions needed for a political coup's success?  Or maybe you are the best scout of a remote area that can provide escort through the wilds?  I'm thinking of the Sherpas of Everest in the last scenario.   

    The point is why not play an important role in the world without having to be the soldier or the hero or the king?  Surely there are more that aspire to this role in mmos.  If anyone knows of any such game, please broadcast it.

    Why is it sad? It is in human instinct. Why do you think violence focused entertainment is so popular? It is just human nature.

    "Why not be a blacksmith that forges the best steel available to warriors?" .. because that is not fun for me. Because i would much rather be the warrior. That boils down to personal preferences.

    If 99% of the players want to be warriors, and only 1% want to be the blacksmith .. then what do you think the devs are going to make? A warrior game, or a blacksmith game?

    Lets say that each "server/shard" has 10,000 players. Your theory would mean that out of those, 100 players want to play a Blacksmith. Wouldn't it be a better game if the warriors could deal with other players for their gear? Wouldn't it be a better game if all the Blacksmiths and all the Bowyers and all the rest of the non-warriors had direct dealings with those pure warrior players?

     

    Not necessarily. Dealing with other players take time and energy. If the 9900 players just want to focus on fighting and progression, it is easier to get better items from drops and trading on AH, then spending time negotiating with real players.

    Plus, it is a matter of resource allocation. To make a good blacksmithing system to please those 100 players, how much do you have to spend? Certainly spending just 1% of the resources probably won't be doing a very good job. Can a dev justify spending a significanat amount when only 1% is enjoying the system?

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Merilirem.
    Just because 99% of the games we play are combat, it doesn't mean we want to do it. The game I would play is one where we get so lost in the world we forget all the stats and guides.

    Who are "we"? I get that you may not want to do it .. but the market certainly like combat. It is not like there are no alternatives .. but combat heavy game is big sellers (do you really need me to tell you?)

    And while you want to forget stats and guides, stats and guides are very popular. There are people who spend day & night theorycrafting game mechanics. We are talking about minute details like people will test proc coefficients in Diablo 3, and know exactly how many ticks a DOT will go off for what value of attack speed. Ditto in games like WOW where there is optimization software to help you pick gear, and do gods know what.

    And to many (including me) .. that is fun. When i consider buying a piece of gear in D3, i will have the ranges of random stats in front of me, so i will know if this particular one has a good draw or not .. and hence if i get my money worth. I also run them through DPS and EPH (effect health) calculators.This kind of meta-game is a big part of the fun for me.

  • MeriliremMerilirem Member Posts: 77
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Merilirem.
    Just because 99% of the games we play are combat, it doesn't mean we want to do it. The game I would play is one where we get so lost in the world we forget all the stats and guides.

    Who are "we"? I get that you may not want to do it .. but the market certainly like combat. It is not like there are no alternatives .. but combat heavy game is big sellers (do you really need me to tell you?)

    And while you want to forget stats and guides, stats and guides are very popular. There are people who spend day & night theorycrafting game mechanics. We are talking about minute details like people will test proc coefficients in Diablo 3, and know exactly how many ticks a DOT will go off for what value of attack speed. Ditto in games like WOW where there is optimization software to help you pick gear, and do gods know what.

    And to many (including me) .. that is fun. When i consider buying a piece of gear in D3, i will have the ranges of random stats in front of me, so i will know if this particular one has a good draw or not .. and hence if i get my money worth. I also run them through DPS and EPH (effect health) calculators.This kind of meta-game is a big part of the fun for me.

    I'm not trying to say your games are bad, they are just different to what I and others would like. Personally I will always go into heavy combat sitauations. I just don't like that we have no choice, no other way to spend our virtual lives that isn't just some silly distraction which means nothing. When I say WE I'm not really talking about anyone, it's more of a general we the players comment. Alot  of the time whether it's games or any aspect of our existence, people will be unable to tell if they would enjoy something without trying it. Many will find something they never thought of as fun to be the best path for them. Without the ability to try new things, how can anyone be sure of anything? Is a game which caters to all kinds of players at once really such an impossible notion to you?

    If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human?

    Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer?

    If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Merilirem
     

    I'm not trying to say your games are bad, they are just different to what I and others would like. Personally I will always go into heavy combat sitauations. I just don't like that we have no choice, no other way to spend our virtual lives that isn't just some silly distraction which means nothing. When I say WE I'm not really talking about anyone, it's more of a general we the players comment. Alot  of the time whether it's games or any aspect of our existence, people will be unable to tell if they would enjoy something without trying it. Many will find something they never thought of as fun to be the best path for them. Without the ability to try new things, how can anyone be sure of anything? Is a game which caters to all kinds of players at once really such an impossible notion to you?

    It is fair as long as you acknowledge you are not talking about everyone.

    And to the point "Without the ability to try new things, how can anyone be sure of anything?" .. there are plenty of other games. SIngalong, dancing, sports .... you named it. The fact that combat centric games outsell all of them tell you something.

    Heck, you can even play a house decorator in SIMS. And that games sold millions. So the point is this .. people have choices, and they have tried all sort of different games, but in the end, combat and violence sells .. and that is whay a large portion (but not all) of the market is focused on that.

    Supply and demand, it is that simple.

  • BanaghranBanaghran Member Posts: 869
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Not necessarily. Dealing with other players take time and energy. If the 9900 players just want to focus on fighting and progression, it is easier to get better items from drops and trading on AH, then spending time negotiating with real players.

    Plus, it is a matter of resource allocation. To make a good blacksmithing system to please those 100 players, how much do you have to spend? Certainly spending just 1% of the resources probably won't be doing a very good job. Can a dev justify spending a significanat amount when only 1% is enjoying the system?

     

    I think we are having that nonsensical numbers argument again...

    There are far more people interested in non combat things than 1%

    Moreover you actually need those people, even if you think you dont, from the guys that write guides and test every system trough the powergamers like say kripp or athene in d3 that are predominantly goal oriented (beating the game, finding the perfect build) to the overt(h)inkers that will bash your game whenever and wherever for being too simple and too shallow.

    That is the thing that makes the difference between a free lineage2 based stock mmo (i have seen far too many lately, like Shaiya or Aika) that gets hailed as "the best free mmo of the year" and a real product that lasts for more than few months and with more than 2k players.

    Flame on!

    :)

  • MeriliremMerilirem Member Posts: 77
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Merilirem
     

    I'm not trying to say your games are bad, they are just different to what I and others would like. Personally I will always go into heavy combat sitauations. I just don't like that we have no choice, no other way to spend our virtual lives that isn't just some silly distraction which means nothing. When I say WE I'm not really talking about anyone, it's more of a general we the players comment. Alot  of the time whether it's games or any aspect of our existence, people will be unable to tell if they would enjoy something without trying it. Many will find something they never thought of as fun to be the best path for them. Without the ability to try new things, how can anyone be sure of anything? Is a game which caters to all kinds of players at once really such an impossible notion to you?

    It is fair as long as you acknowledge you are not talking about everyone.

    And to the point "Without the ability to try new things, how can anyone be sure of anything?" .. there are plenty of other games. SIngalong, dancing, sports .... you named it. The fact that combat centric games outsell all of them tell you something.

    Heck, you can even play a house decorator in SIMS. And that games sold millions. So the point is this .. people have choices, and they have tried all sort of different games, but in the end, combat and violence sells .. and that is whay a large portion (but not all) of the market is focused on that.

    Supply and demand, it is that simple.

    2 points

    1, Their is a huge difference between a game that is something and a game that allows something. A pure combat game or a pure dancing game are a whole different experience to a game with dancing and fighting. Nothing wrong with specialization, some just find it a little simple and shallow.

    2, alot of the pure games are below my personally level of approval anyway, not as a game but as a pure game. This isn't really the p to start that discussion though. Btw shallow isn't a bad thing, classic Mario is awesome.

    If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human?

    Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer?

    If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?

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