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Massively.com - "Age of Wushu is probably the greatest sandbox you'll never play"

bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,277Member Uncommon

 

by Jef Reahard image on Dec 28th 2012 12:00PM

 
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Comments

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member

    Spot on article, most of it anyway.

    Too bad he's a bit confused regarding the whole ptw thing. Paying for convenience items or faster leveling is NOT pay to win. Paying for things that can not be attained through normal gameplay is. AoW does not sell things that you can not acquire in game (at least not yet), therefore it's not ptw (yet).

    Someone wrote a great reply in the comments to the article, I'll just quote it here:

    "A concept is not subjective. Your understanding of a concept is subjective. The difference is significant. Popular understanding does not change meaning, it merely alters semantics. "Pay to win" can evolve linguistically to represent something other than what it meant originally, but the concept itself does not change.

     I find the understanding you ascribe to "pay to win" lacking. It eliminates a concrete, clear concept for a much more slippery one.

    According to my understanding of the concept of pay to win, an advantage must be available for cash that cannot be obtained via other means. In other words, "(You must) pay to win."

    According to your apparent understanding of the concept of pay to win, all that is required is that an advantage be possible to obtain via cash. In other words, "(You can) pay to win."

    I contend that your understanding of the concept is much more difficult to pin down, and thus inferior. Where do you draw the line? Is it pay to win in subscription games for players to be allowed to own multiple accounts, allowing them to direct the power of 5 characters at once?

    I find people have a universal distaste for the term "pay to win," and have begun to use it to describe anything in cash shops of which they disapprove. This dilutes the concept. "Pay to win," shouldn't be a subjective synonym for "bad," we already have words for that. It ought to be a clearly defined concept, and in that pursuit I think my stated understanding above fits better.

    It also better fits into the etymology of the phrases we use. If it were a case of "you can" instead of "you must," then SWTOR's new model would be "pay to play," as "(you can) pay to play." That's not the case though. Pay to play means "(you must) pay to play."
  • AmanaAmana New York, NYPosts: 2,545Moderator Uncommon

    Hi - I've removed most of the article because pasting full articles from sites discourages people from visiting the sources and is essentially, violates their copyright.

    Here's the rule as written in our RoC:

     

    Copyright and Press Material

    • Reposting material in its entirety from other sources is against our rules. Quotations from things such as news articles are fine, provided it is cited and (if possible) linked to. We ask others to respect our content and ask our readers do the same for other people's content.
     
    An excerpt and link is generally how to go about this

    To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member

    I agree with massively, Age Of Wushu is a fab game and really does bring something new to the table. Massively have followed the game and are way ahead of mmorpg.com when it comes to Age Of Wushu.

    MMORPG.COM only jumped on the wagon for the second beta, i mean they didn't even put Age Of Wushu in the awards list yet they put ArcheAge in it.

     

    Age Of Wushu is more sandboxy than ArcheAge.

    image
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,277Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Amana

    Hi - I've removed most of the article because pasting full articles from sites discourages people from visiting the sources and is essentially, violates their copyright.

    Here's the rule as written in our RoC:

     

    Copyright and Press Material

    • Reposting material in its entirety from other sources is against our rules. Quotations from things such as news articles are fine, provided it is cited and (if possible) linked to. We ask others to respect our content and ask our readers do the same for other people's content.
     
    An excerpt and link is generally how to go about this

    Ah makes sense. Sorry!

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by Rimmersman

    I agree with massively, Age Of Wushu is a fab game and really does bring something new to the table. Massively have followed the game and are way ahead of mmorpg.com when it comes to Age Of Wushu.

    MMORPG.COM only jumped on the wagon for the second beta, i mean they didn't even put Age Of Wushu in the awards list yet they put ArcheAge in it.

     

    Age Of Wushu is more sandboxy than ArcheAge.

    I was suprised at its lack of mention as well. It still doesn't get as much attention as games like the one formerly known as War Z, which is much less MMORPG and more MMOFPS  (especially as it stands today).

     

     

  • GhabboGhabbo Buenos AiresPosts: 251Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Biskop

    Spot on article, most of it anyway.

    Too bad he's a bit confused regarding the whole ptw thing. Paying for convenience items or faster leveling is NOT pay to win. Paying for things that can not be attained through normal gameplay is. AoW does not sell things that you can not acquire in game (at least not yet), therefore it's not ptw (yet).

    Someone wrote a great reply in the comments to the article, I'll just quote it here:

    "A concept is not subjective. Your understanding of a concept is subjective. The difference is significant. Popular understanding does not change meaning, it merely alters semantics. "Pay to win" can evolve linguistically to represent something other than what it meant originally, but the concept itself does not change.

     I find the understanding you ascribe to "pay to win" lacking. It eliminates a concrete, clear concept for a much more slippery one.

    According to my understanding of the concept of pay to win, an advantage must be available for cash that cannot be obtained via other means. In other words, "(You must) pay to win."

    According to your apparent understanding of the concept of pay to win, all that is required is that an advantage be possible to obtain via cash. In other words, "(You can) pay to win."

    I contend that your understanding of the concept is much more difficult to pin down, and thus inferior. Where do you draw the line? Is it pay to win in subscription games for players to be allowed to own multiple accounts, allowing them to direct the power of 5 characters at once?

    I find people have a universal distaste for the term "pay to win," and have begun to use it to describe anything in cash shops of which they disapprove. This dilutes the concept. "Pay to win," shouldn't be a subjective synonym for "bad," we already have words for that. It ought to be a clearly defined concept, and in that pursuit I think my stated understanding above fits better.

    It also better fits into the etymology of the phrases we use. If it were a case of "you can" instead of "you must," then SWTOR's new model would be "pay to play," as "(you can) pay to play." That's not the case though. Pay to play means "(you must) pay to play."

     

    That's one of the clear, consistent and precise explanations about PTW I've ever come across +1

     

    As for the game itself, all I can say is that I'm loving it (despite the UI, translations and many other issues) image.

     

     

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by GrayKodiak
    Originally posted by Rimmersman

    I agree with massively, Age Of Wushu is a fab game and really does bring something new to the table. Massively have followed the game and are way ahead of mmorpg.com when it comes to Age Of Wushu.

    MMORPG.COM only jumped on the wagon for the second beta, i mean they didn't even put Age Of Wushu in the awards list yet they put ArcheAge in it.

     

    Age Of Wushu is more sandboxy than ArcheAge.

    I was suprised at its lack of mention as well. It still doesn't get as much attention as games like the one formerly known as War Z, which is much less MMORPG and more MMOFPS  (especially as it stands today).

     

     

    Typical mmorpg.com.

    image
  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Huntsville, ALPosts: 1,365Member Uncommon

    I find it frustrating reading this article which so readily compares the game to EVE Online yet gives little to no indication as to exactly what the two games have in common.

    So this game is a sandbox and EVE is a sandbox, what does that even mean?  (i'm not intending to ask for the definition of sandbox, i'm only pointing out they declare the game a sandbox without telling me why they feel it is one)

  • JetrpgJetrpg Whitehouse, OHPosts: 2,376Member
    Originally posted by Ghabbo
    Originally posted by Biskop

    Spot on article, most of it anyway.

    Too bad he's a bit confused regarding the whole ptw thing. Paying for convenience items or faster leveling is NOT pay to win. Paying for things that can not be attained through normal gameplay is. AoW does not sell things that you can not acquire in game (at least not yet), therefore it's not ptw (yet).

    Someone wrote a great reply in the comments to the article, I'll just quote it here:

    "A concept is not subjective. Your understanding of a concept is subjective. The difference is significant. Popular understanding does not change meaning, it merely alters semantics. "Pay to win" can evolve linguistically to represent something other than what it meant originally, but the concept itself does not change.

     I find the understanding you ascribe to "pay to win" lacking. It eliminates a concrete, clear concept for a much more slippery one.

    According to my understanding of the concept of pay to win, an advantage must be available for cash that cannot be obtained via other means. In other words, "(You must) pay to win."

    According to your apparent understanding of the concept of pay to win, all that is required is that an advantage be possible to obtain via cash. In other words, "(You can) pay to win."

    I contend that your understanding of the concept is much more difficult to pin down, and thus inferior. Where do you draw the line? Is it pay to win in subscription games for players to be allowed to own multiple accounts, allowing them to direct the power of 5 characters at once?

    I find people have a universal distaste for the term "pay to win," and have begun to use it to describe anything in cash shops of which they disapprove. This dilutes the concept. "Pay to win," shouldn't be a subjective synonym for "bad," we already have words for that. It ought to be a clearly defined concept, and in that pursuit I think my stated understanding above fits better.

    It also better fits into the etymology of the phrases we use. If it were a case of "you can" instead of "you must," then SWTOR's new model would be "pay to play," as "(you can) pay to play." That's not the case though. Pay to play means "(you must) pay to play."

    That's one of the clear, consistent and precise explanations about PTW I've ever come across +1

    As for the game itself, all I can say is that I'm loving it (despite the UI, translations and many other issues) image.

    PTW has never been you MUST . It been a more or less Paying give you a strogn competitive advantage.

    Such as, IF YOU DON'T HAVE 8 HOURS TO PLAY THE GAME A DAY TO FARM THEN you must ptw. This is how most PTW games have been. so for the average joe if they want to win they have to pay.. but its not actuall nessesary. (If you spend an absurd amount of time farming).

    I figure if your going to be so detailed about a non-issue (in an attempt to claim AoW is not PTW) then you might as well be accurate.

     

    Mind you AoW might not be PTW... then agian maybe it is.. simple enough sub games shouldn't have items that provide competitive advatages. If im paying that should be the end of the story.

    "Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  • etlaretlar Posts: 695Member Uncommon

    is Age of wushu the same game as age of wulin at the eu gpotato site? kinda confused, want to try this,  but i would like

    it to be the right game ofcourse lol :)

     

     

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

    I find it frustrating reading this article which so readily compares the game to EVE Online yet gives little to no indication as to exactly what the two games have in common.

    So this game is a sandbox and EVE is a sandbox, what does that even mean?  (i'm not intending to ask for the definition of sandbox, i'm only pointing out they declare the game a sandbox without telling me why they feel it is one)

    Read this http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/18/first-impressions-from-the-age-of-wushu-beta/

    Then read about all the features of the game here, everything you need to know http://uk.ign.com/wikis/age-of-wushu/Novice_Guide

    And then actually see for yourself and download the game http://www.ageofwushu.com/

    image
  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    massively may be right, it might be a great game but most will never play it because of forced PvP.
  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    massively may be right, it might be a great game but most will never play it because of forced PvP.

    That's the point, you don't have to play it, plenty of other MMOs that don't have PVP. It's pretty easy to avoid PVP in Age Of Wushu to be fare, unlike games like GW2, PVP in Age Of Wushu has consequences.

    Age Of Wushu also has loads of PVE as well as PVP.

    image
  • VolgoreVolgore Posts: 2,209Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rimmersman
    Originally posted by GrayKodiak
    Originally posted by Rimmersman

    I agree with massively, Age Of Wushu is a fab game and really does bring something new to the table. Massively have followed the game and are way ahead of mmorpg.com when it comes to Age Of Wushu.

    MMORPG.COM only jumped on the wagon for the second beta, i mean they didn't even put Age Of Wushu in the awards list yet they put ArcheAge in it.

     

    Age Of Wushu is more sandboxy than ArcheAge.

    I was suprised at its lack of mention as well. It still doesn't get as much attention as games like the one formerly known as War Z, which is much less MMORPG and more MMOFPS  (especially as it stands today).

     

     

    Typical mmorpg.com.

    You would see more coverage on this site if SnailGames would invest more into advertising on this webpage. But then, on the other hand we wouldn't be allowed to discuss the negatives about the game on these forums without getting temp banned left and right.

    So i rather prefer a more open discussion of AoW here instead of biased articles.

    image
  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by Volgore
    Originally posted by Rimmersman
    Originally posted by GrayKodiak
    Originally posted by Rimmersman

    I agree with massively, Age Of Wushu is a fab game and really does bring something new to the table. Massively have followed the game and are way ahead of mmorpg.com when it comes to Age Of Wushu.

    MMORPG.COM only jumped on the wagon for the second beta, i mean they didn't even put Age Of Wushu in the awards list yet they put ArcheAge in it.

     

    Age Of Wushu is more sandboxy than ArcheAge.

    I was suprised at its lack of mention as well. It still doesn't get as much attention as games like the one formerly known as War Z, which is much less MMORPG and more MMOFPS  (especially as it stands today).

     

     

    Typical mmorpg.com.

    You would see more coverage on this site if SnailGames would invest more into advertising on this webpage. But then, on the other hand we wouldn't be allowed to discuss the negatives about the game on these forums without getting temp banned left and right.

    So i rather prefer a more open discussion of AoW here instead of biased articles.

    Putting it like that i would have to agree.

    image
  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon

    Does this game have:

    Crafting, indepth crafting not that garbage you get from your standard themepark?

    Player based economy not a loot based like themeparks?

    Housing?

    Open world?

    Social hubs/skills?

    Player made content?

    Unrestricted movement thru the world ( not linear paths like SWTOR)?

    How is the pvp designed? Is it free for all, broken down into zones, faction vs faction, etc?

     

    Never realy got into this since it was a f2p game. because F2P = p2w or restrictions and a sandbox should never have restrictions in any manor. If it has most this i may actualy look into it and buy. I love a good sandbox but i hate f2p models just on principle.

     

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Amana

    Hi - I've removed most of the article because pasting full articles from sites discourages people from visiting the sources and is essentially, violates their copyright.

    Here's the rule as written in our RoC:

     

    Copyright and Press Material

    • Reposting material in its entirety from other sources is against our rules. Quotations from things such as news articles are fine, provided it is cited and (if possible) linked to. We ask others to respect our content and ask our readers do the same for other people's content.
     
    An excerpt and link is generally how to go about this

    The Blog Age is really challenging traditional intel property law, as re-blogging substitutes for original thought more and more often.

    Thanks for your efforts...but you're holding your finger in the internet dike that's ready to collapse under a sea of litigation.  (I know, you don't really have a choice about it.  Carry on anyway.)

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rimmersman
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

    I find it frustrating reading this article which so readily compares the game to EVE Online yet gives little to no indication as to exactly what the two games have in common.

    So this game is a sandbox and EVE is a sandbox, what does that even mean?  (i'm not intending to ask for the definition of sandbox, i'm only pointing out they declare the game a sandbox without telling me why they feel it is one)

    Read this http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/18/first-impressions-from-the-age-of-wushu-beta/

    Then read about all the features of the game here, everything you need to know http://uk.ign.com/wikis/age-of-wushu/Novice_Guide

    And then actually see for yourself and download the game http://www.ageofwushu.com/

    It seems like whenever people ask how this particular game is a sandbox they don't get a direct answer.

    Instead of sending us to a series of pages, would you be able to answer the question for us?

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by Onomas

    Does this game have:

    Crafting, indepth crafting not that garbage you get from your standard themepark?

    Everything is player made, you can get drops in the world but the best is player made. You can finish anything by yoursdelf, you need other crafters.

    Player based economy not a loot based like themeparks?

    Player based economy.

    Housing?

    Vast castle forts and land ownership

    Open world?

    Yes, it has instanced dungeons though so not totally open.

    Social hubs/skills?

    To many to list.

    Player made content? 

    In what way.

    Unrestricted movement thru the world ( not linear paths like SWTOR)?

    Yes.

    How is the pvp designed? Is it free for all, broken down into zones, faction vs faction, etc?

    FFA/Faction with serious penalty for PK. Prsion, beaheading, bountys, public executions.

     

    Never realy got into this since it was a f2p game. because F2P = p2w or restrictions and a sandbox should never have restrictions in any manor. If it has most this i may actualy look into it and buy. I love a good sandbox but i hate f2p models just on principle.

     

    Read plz. http://uk.ign.com/wikis/age-of-wushu/Kidnapping

    image
  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Rimmersman
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

    I find it frustrating reading this article which so readily compares the game to EVE Online yet gives little to no indication as to exactly what the two games have in common.

    So this game is a sandbox and EVE is a sandbox, what does that even mean?  (i'm not intending to ask for the definition of sandbox, i'm only pointing out they declare the game a sandbox without telling me why they feel it is one)

    Read this http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/18/first-impressions-from-the-age-of-wushu-beta/

    Then read about all the features of the game here, everything you need to know http://uk.ign.com/wikis/age-of-wushu/Novice_Guide

    And then actually see for yourself and download the game http://www.ageofwushu.com/

    It seems like whenever people ask how this particular game is a sandbox they don't get a direct answer.

    Instead of sending us to a series of pages, would you be able to answer the question for us?

     

    I would actually say it was hybrid leaning more to the sandbox.

    What's wrong with actually reading up on it or going through some of the threads in this forum?

    image
  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rimmersman
    Originally posted by Onomas

    Does this game have:

    Crafting, indepth crafting not that garbage you get from your standard themepark?

    Everything is player made, you can get drops in the world but the best is player made. You can finish anything by yoursdelf, you need other crafters.

    Player based economy not a loot based like themeparks?

    Player based economy.

    Housing?

    Vast castle forts and land ownership

    Open world?

    Yes, it has instanced dungeons though so not totally open.

    Social hubs/skills?

    To many to list.

    Player made content? 

    In what way.

    Unrestricted movement thru the world ( not linear paths like SWTOR)?

    Yes.

    How is the pvp designed? Is it free for all, broken down into zones, faction vs faction, etc?

    FFA/Faction with serious penalty for PK. Prsion, beaheading, bountys, public executions.

     

    Never realy got into this since it was a f2p game. because F2P = p2w or restrictions and a sandbox should never have restrictions in any manor. If it has most this i may actualy look into it and buy. I love a good sandbox but i hate f2p models just on principle.

     

    Read plz. http://uk.ign.com/wikis/age-of-wushu/Kidnapping

    You have sparked some intrest for me. I shall go take a look. Still hate a sandbox being f2p, just shabby. But from what you posted this may over shadow that. Thanks!

  • TaishiFoxTaishiFox NottinghamPosts: 670Member Uncommon
    Anyone else notice the title of this thread says "the greastest sandbox you'll never play" ? O_o I know this is probably a typo (more like a grammar mistake) but I found it a bit funny as it suggests we wouldn't play it til ya actually read the post that goes with it.

    imageimage
    image
    image

  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Leland, NCPosts: 3,275Member
    Agree with the article.  Love the game and many of its systems does remind me of EVE.
  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Urvan
    Anyone else notice the title of this thread says "the greastest sandbox you'll never play" ? O_o I know this is probably a typo (more like a grammar mistake) but I found it a bit funny as it suggests we wouldn't play it til ya actually read the post that goes with it.

     

    I think it was more referring to P2W business model and heavy dose of asian culture.   Western players just don't like games that mix those two.       

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by Urvan
    Anyone else notice the title of this thread says "the greastest sandbox you'll never play" ? O_o I know this is probably a typo (more like a grammar mistake) but I found it a bit funny as it suggests we wouldn't play it til ya actually read the post that goes with it.

    Did you miss the part in the title that says "probably" or perhaps you purposely left that bit out. Also it's not a typo, it's actually meant to be in the title.

    image
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