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[Column] General: The Players and Their Choice

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,659MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

It's no secret that the winner of the MMORPG.com Players' Choice Award Game of the Year 2012 was a huge surpise and a big upset. Pirate101 scored a narrow victory over Guild Wars 2 and a huge discussion erupted in the official announcement thread. In today's Devil's Advocate, we take a look at why some folks just don't get it. Read on!

Here's my unofficial take on this: you don't get it. You don't get what an award for Player's Choice is about.

In the first case, the “Player's Choice Awards” is a statistically unscientific measure of interest in a given topic where people who are interested in the topic actually choose to vote for something they want to win.

Read more of Victor Barreiro Jr.'s The Devil's Advocate: The Players and Their Choice.

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Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • tordurbartordurbar Alexandria, VAPosts: 429Member Uncommon

    I may not agree with all your columns but I do enjoy reading them.

    In this case I agree with everything you said except for the creed. MMOs are games. Obviously there are many reasons people play games but I have never heard of "trying to spread a positive message". LOL. 90% of the time that I have been in games I think the reverse would be the case.

    Regardless how the award was determmined MMORPG might lose some respect on their choice. My view of the readership, judging from the forums, is that it is more hardcore than easy going. Hardcore gamers disdain (at least publically) the "kiddy" type games - even though they may play them in secret. Pirate 101 and the elk are not cool to the professional WOW raider or the elite pvp players of the Asian grinders. Still, Pirate 101 is an MMO and it is an RPG so no matter what the audience may think, it is just as viable as Aion, Tera, etc.

    I think that the problem with the award is that it is not public enough prior to decision. I am positive that had the GW2 crowd known that there was a chance that they would lose that they would have flooded the site with votes. I just use GW2 as an example :)  I think this situation would be a win not only for the players (who would like to have their game win) but for the site itself - more people coming to the site to vote.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    The internet is the Mos Eisley Cantina - "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."

    In truth - I don't think that statement applies to just the internet anymore - because the internet is no longer some seperate thing from our lives/society it is an extension of it.

    Human society in general has become a cespool of negativity and evil. I fear for humanity.

    Somewhere along the way people stopped learning their "please and thank you's" and stopped caring about basic civility and good manners.

    I say this as a 29 year old. I'm not even that old to be this crotchety.

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,215Member Uncommon
    Talk about your win out of nowhere. Who knew? The thing I find odd is how overwrought people are getting over a meaningless accolade. Is anyone seriously considering quitting their favorite MMO to play Pirates 101 because of this? Miss Universe has become about nationalism which is at least understandable. Gamers have lost perspective again.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • ComanComan Hattem, AKPosts: 2,036Member Uncommon

    A community award would have been better. Not allowing newer accounts to participate. Pirate101 might have still won and really do not care much about that, but right now the award feels pretty much useless and might not reflect the community here at MMORPG.com. Not that the award would be usefull then. 

    These same group who signed up here will move to the next award and vote there if they can making this award not really unique. Then again I think the whole point of the award is to boost member numbers more then actually award games and companies for what they did.

    Also was the award system not bigger and more planned out last years?

     

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Human society in general has become a cespool of negativity and evil. I fear for humanity.

    and you stand knee deep in that pool. You sound pretty negative to me about your fellow humans. Really look at the past. Mobsters, world wars, US cival war because of slavery. The state we are in have absolutly nothing to do with the internet. Humanty has always been like this troughout history.

    People have passion for what they find fun and they sometimes over react like in this poll and you react by how unmannerd, negative and evil humanty has become....

    really you need to get out of that cespool right now!

  • MuffloMufflo StockholmPosts: 30Member

    I'm baffled almost every day (as I follow this site almost everyday) how such creative, smart and interesting pieces posted on this site from the experienced writers of MMORPG.com get such lousy, respectless and sometimes simply distateful comments below. 

    I think everyone knows how low people sink in form of communication, love and respect on the internet. This of course has coloured a large part of the gaming community. I think everyone already knows this. I say "knows", as in: deep within their hearts, not as in: aknowledges and acts from. 

    This is global, as the community has almost always been on a global scale and communicated globally through internet. That means this is a global problem, which means it gets different responses in different parts of this world. (I will not go into detail, as I fully believe to be in power to offend people) 

    If the world treats if different, it won't fully understand. It will be confused. Please don't let that happen. We all "know", as I said, deep within ourselves what is the problem, and how to deal with it ourselves.

    The problem is respect, the solution: start with the man in the mirror. Do not go to friends, or out on the internet to complain about the problem, like me. Look yourself in the mirror and realize how you act as a gamer. Your worst and best parts. You might scream in teamspeak, or not. You might curse and hate in the comments of somebody putting out their thoughts in a game blog. You might write a acidly hateful reply to this. I would not.

    The problem is respect, the solution is to look into the mirror. We are better than this.

    The sylvari ordered Rice n chicken in a bar. The waiter asked him: "exploded or intact?" He angrily answered: "Intact of course! Do you take me for a fool?"

    Those were his last words.

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member

    The people who post on the forums, not the staff of this site, believe they are right and know what the MMO  industry should do to make games better. The problem is, they are a very vocal minority. An example, how many forum threads have been made to the decrease in population of GW2? It seems the same people always are postong about the death of this game and others. [mod edit]

     

    The internet is anonymous, thus people feel that they can comment without reprisals - hence the negativitiy.

     

    I wish it was that easy Mufflo - I wish it was.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • tordurbartordurbar Alexandria, VAPosts: 429Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    The internet is the Mos Eisley Cantina - "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."

    In truth - I don't think that statement applies to just the internet anymore - because the internet is no longer some seperate thing from our lives/society it is an extension of it.

    Human society in general has become a cespool of negativity and evil. I fear for humanity.

    Somewhere along the way people stopped learning their "please and thank you's" and stopped caring about basic civility and good manners.

    I say this as a 29 year old. I'm not even that old to be this crotchety.

    I agree. It is sad that someone that young is cynical. I did not get that way until I was just over 40. Unfortunately I see the same attitude developing in my twenty-something sons.

    Still, there is a play that I believe is called "By the Skin of Our Teeth" that might amuse you. Human society may be a "hive of scum" but the cycle continues. Our society will fall and a better one will emerge from the ruins - if only for a time.

    I do not believe that all is lost and I see that in some of the MMOs that I play. Often times I see players go out of their way to help others. In some cases (like GW2) there are benefits for doing so but in other cases there is no visible reason at all. Yes, in general, we humans are fading into the darkness  but there are still flickers of light out there. At age 60 that is what I hold on to. Those flickers of altruism.

  • OmnifishOmnifish LondonPosts: 616Member
     

    If we are to believe this article then Pirates 101 had a dedicated fanbase that didn't say much on any  MMORPGS forums, but were aware enough to vote for it in their droves, to take this award.

     

    Considering how many other dedicated fans of others games argued about the merits of their chosen one on fthe forums all year, (TERA, TSW, GW2 etc, etc), this result seems rather strange and I don't quite understand the incredulous tone of the article.  Protesting your integrity without us really seeing any voting trends data or actual numbers compares you more to the FIFA Word Cup Selection ballet then Miss Universe.

     

    You maybe right, maybe noone bothered to vote in all the mayhem for the most talked about titles this year but really acting offended because it asks questions about your methods just leads to more suspicion..

     

     

     

     

    This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    I got it , and I thought it was funny. Pirate 101 motivated their players to get out to vote. We seen this with other games over the years. Lotro being one of them. I don't see anything wrong with asking your folks to go vote.

    I actually went and tried pirate 101 after they won. Let just say its not for me. I think I will stick with eq2.

    I got to say this the other games could have done the same thing asked their folks to go vote, made fake accounts to double the votes and what not. So they had their chance.

    Oh and just to be clear I voted for tsw.

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member

    Consider this, how many who voted for Pirate101 have actually played the game? I'll bet a lot who voted for this game have never even seen a screenshot of it.

    Point 5 is well taken, but take it a step further, players voting for the leading unfashionable mmorpg simply to stick it to the big guns and try and help them lose out to a minnow so they can point their fingers and laugh.

    In the UK a few years ago people got so annoyed at the constant seasonal chart domination by acts from the X-Factor they started an anti-establishment campaign and backed the most unlikely song to become that years Christmas #1 single, these people PAYED to make this happen and low-and-behold, we had a Rage Against The Machine Christmas number 1 :)

    Point is, people will go to extrodinary lengths to make a mockery of something others care about. Simply put, isn't it quite possible MMORPG.com got trolled and brilliantly so? :)

     

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • OmnifishOmnifish LondonPosts: 616Member
    Originally posted by tordurbar
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    The internet is the Mos Eisley Cantina - "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."

    In truth - I don't think that statement applies to just the internet anymore - because the internet is no longer some seperate thing from our lives/society it is an extension of it.

    Human society in general has become a cespool of negativity and evil. I fear for humanity.

    Somewhere along the way people stopped learning their "please and thank you's" and stopped caring about basic civility and good manners.

    I say this as a 29 year old. I'm not even that old to be this crotchety.

    I agree. It is sad that someone that young is cynical. I did not get that way until I was just over 40. Unfortunately I see the same attitude developing in my twenty-something sons.

    Still, there is a play that I believe is called "By the Skin of Our Teeth" that might amuse you. Human society may be a "hive of scum" but the cycle continues. Our society will fall and a better one will emerge from the ruins - if only for a time.

    I do not believe that all is lost and I see that in some of the MMOs that I play. Often times I see players go out of their way to help others. In some cases (like GW2) there are benefits for doing so but in other cases there is no visible reason at all. Yes, in general, we humans are fading into the darkness  but there are still flickers of light out there. At age 60 that is what I hold on to. Those flickers of altruism.

     

    I'm amazed that an article about the strange voting methods of this site leads you and Mr Spock to an analysis about the fall of mankind.

     

    The true tragedy is that it seems that some people have more faith in brands,(MMORPG.com for instance), and companies then they do in their fellow man.  The question really should be why that is..

     

    This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Coman
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Human society in general has become a cespool of negativity and evil. I fear for humanity.

    and you stand knee deep in that pool. You sound pretty negative to me about your fellow humans. Really look at the past. Mobsters, world wars, US cival war because of slavery. The state we are in have absolutly nothing to do with the internet. Humanty has always been like this troughout history.

    People have passion for what they find fun and they sometimes over react like in this poll and you react by how unmannerd, negative and evil humanty has become....

    really you need to get out of that cespool right now!

    I think it is more that because of the internet and how easy it is to connect with people a world away, and the fact it is totally anonymous, all the negativity in the world is just that much easier to reach and as such it is so prevelant.

    I really don't think people in general are any worse, people in general have always sucked and been horrible, but it was much easier to exclude yourself from it and build more insulated communities before...

    I also believe MMOs used to cater to a much more niche audience - a much smaller subset of humanity and even of gamers that were (again in general) much more polite to each other and willing to work together than they are now.

    The game design decisions of the day reflected that - you were forced to play with others and cooperate.

    Such ideas revisited would not work now - I have no desire to connect with most of the gamers in most MMO games these days.

    For how much better the games have gotten in terms of accessibility and even enjoyment, man oh man...

    I suppose there were always asshats in MMOs - especially in UO holy crap there were some rude, immature, borderline insulting players.

    Direct PvP is so totally and completely against what the MMO should be IMO.

  • McGamerMcGamer Fairfield Bay, ARPosts: 1,012Member
    I couldn't agree with the OP more and personally am glad GW2 didn't win because it simply doesn't deserve to.
  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by SBFord

    It's no secret that the winner of the MMORPG.com Players' Choice Award Game of the Year 2012 was a huge surpise and a big upset. Pirate101 scored a narrow victory over Guild Wars 2 and a huge discussion erupted in the official announcement thread. In today's Devil's Advocate, we take a look at why some folks just don't get it. Read on!

    Here's my unofficial take on this: you don't get it. You don't get what an award for Player's Choice is about.

    In the first case, the “Player's Choice Awards” is a statistically unscientific measure of interest in a given topic where people who are interested in the topic actually choose to vote for something they want to win.

    Read more of Victor Barreiro Jr.'s The Devil's Advocate: The Players and Their Choice.

    image

     

    What does it matter? The players "choice" was only a choice between the options you allowed, not a choice between what the players actually wanted.

    To put it another way, if I offered the choice of a punch in the gut, 4 hours of right-wing talk radio played at 120% speed or a cheese sandwich for your xmas dinner, then announced to a suprised world that "The players of MMORPG.COM chose a cheese sandwich as their favourite xmas dinner" then I'd expect responses similar to what you've received from those players.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member

     

    Originally posted by Victor Barreiro Jr.

    The MMO community that encompasses sore losers in polls is nearly as bad as the community that houses the sore losers among those rooting for specific countries in the Miss Universe pageant. Yes, I'm going there.

    rofl.

    Perhaps one of the complications is handing out trophies and none really understand why someone is told to come and collect their trophy when they won, on the loud-speaker system: "Would Pirate 101 please report to mmorpg.com to collect their trophy, please. Code 4." ? That or..

     image

  • ToxiaToxia Lake Charles, LAPosts: 1,319Member Uncommon
    Pirate101 advertised the poll to their players. This wasn't a 'mmorpg.com' players choice award. It's equivalant to 4chan flocking to the mountain dew website and plastering their votes everywhere. These awards were rigged :)

    The Deep Web is sca-ry.

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by Czanrei
    I couldn't agree with the OP more and personally am glad GW2 didn't win because it simply doesn't deserve to.

    Than what game DID deserve to win. Just putting a blanket negative statment like you did only shows how 'Spock on' - sorry couldn't resist the little pun - Bad Spock is.

     

    Please enlighten us and stop being negative.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • NBlitzNBlitz ZwollePosts: 1,904Member

    "The MMO community that encompasses sore losers in polls is nearly as bad as the community that houses the sore losers among those rooting for specific countries in the Miss Universe pageant. Yes, I'm going there."

    Haha! Snatch that wig. 

  • sumdumguy1sumdumguy1 avondale, AZPosts: 962Member Uncommon

    You also forgot to mention manufacturer campaigning for their own game. From Kingsisle and associated sites I received the following.

    1.  Email with link to vote

    2. Email to check out their forum which had a thread right there when I used the link

    3. Email from fan site encouraging me to vote and with the blessing of Kingsisle.

    4.  A second email reminding me to vote

    5. A discussion in pirate 101 encouraging me to vote, the create another account and vote again.

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
      Seriously lol  I cant belive peeps get bent out of shape about fans rallying behind their game.  Maybe GW2 fans should have done the same.  Instead of assuming they were gonna win..hit the offical forums and campaign. 

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    There is also another possiblity that folks have not thought about.  The GW2 crowd for the past 2 years has shown up in everybody else forums, bashing and complaining about the other games, and trash talking and saying how great gw2 is compared to the other games.  

    Just maybe those folks who were tired of the GW2 crowd decided to go vote for something they never heard of as a vote against gw2 at the same time to send a message.   

     

  • VendettaDFAVendettaDFA Pleasant Hill, MOPosts: 72Member
    Possible point # 6 - Voting by people so fed up with the hype-machine and swarm mentality to defend said hyped game that they are willing to vote for any game but that one.
  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by Czanrei
    I couldn't agree with the OP more and personally am glad GW2 didn't win because it simply doesn't deserve to.

    Plain and simple.image

    image
  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon

     The Op forgot factor number 6.

     People who voted for the second ranked game just to spite the forrunner to make sure it loses.

    Consider this a conspiracy theory if you want, though i think most people know it to be true.

    ie the only way to vote against a game for whatever reason is to vote for the second rated game

    so the first game doesn't win.

      While this indeed may indeed be the tactic of a sore loser you know that many votes for pirates 101 weren't from people that liked pirates 101 or even that had ever tried pirates 101 but simple were from people trying to prevent another game from winning.

      SImply put in the lowest terms Pirates 101 was the little kiddy game from a nobody developer that nobody cared enough to hate. hell had hello kitty online been on the list it would probably have won just from people caatsing votes to be funny and show how totally ludicris these game io year awards really are.

  • sumdumguy1sumdumguy1 avondale, AZPosts: 962Member Uncommon
    You really need to check out Kingsisle's history when it comes to these votes.  I have never seen another game company go to such great lengths to push these votes.  They post threads in their own forums, snd messages in game and send out emails as well as encourage fan sites to post threads.  If you look a the history you will see wizard 101 won a similar award a few years ago and after several complaints the magazine looked into the situation and had discussions due to the same people voting over and again.
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