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How is Darkfall a Sandbox but not Planetside 2?

MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,256Member Uncommon

Honestly, both seem like Open World MMO PvP arenas, than Sandbox.

But how can you or anybody name one of them a Sandbox without naming the other a sandbox as well?

Darkfall has no sand at all. Just lots of base control, just like Planetside 2 has.

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Comments

  • ShanniaShannia Huntingdon, NYPosts: 2,096Member
    Problem is, everyone has a different definition of what a sand box is...

    Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

    "Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon

    I support the Nether Sandbox!

    But seriously, Darkfall has some crafting, some PvE elements, building your villages, looting the corpses of your former "friends" who thought they could trust you.

    It's a lot more sandboxy than PS2. But I agree it's not as sandboxy as it should be. Too much emphasis on the PvP part.

  • IchmenIchmen Winnipeg, MBPosts: 1,228Member

    sandbox in the literal term means a box where you build everything you want. 

    aka nothing is premade for you. 

    so no PS2 is not a sandbox its a FPS game with capture the flag mechanics. as for DF i wouldnt really call it a sandbox either as far as im aware of its game mechanics its your typical mmo style pvp game. with just a jack of all trades system but like most people. everyone will have differant views on things. 

     

    personally for me i dont care if a game is or is not a sandbox as long as it fullfills the promises it makes and is enjoyable.

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  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon

    I vote for "Both are but for different reasons".

     

    DF's delineation is being able to build things, in PS2 you can't.  That said you can change "classes in PS2 at any time and has a pretty open progession system.  Once PS2 adds player built bases from resources I will consider it a more complete sandbox.

     

    Edit: Not more sandbox than DF but more sandbox to itself.

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon

    Aventurine is a great Indie company lead by supersmart devs like Tasos who work long hard hours with no pay just to bring players a amazing game and are mocked for thier brilliance. Thus Darkfall unholy wars is a sandbox.

    Planetside 2 is run by SOE a money grubbing greedy company that is the devil. Thus it is a themepark!

    /sarcasm off

    Neither are sandboxes but then ask people what sand is and you will get many different answers.

       So we should stick to what we know....

    Planetside 2 is a f2P released game that is playable. (is it fun? Opinions differ)

    Darkfall Unholy wars is a Pay beta subscription game that has now missed multiple release dates and been forced back to a very buggy beta state thats barely off the ground with most players unable to even log in . (is it Fun? Opinions differ but I think its safe to point out some people find cutting themselves and self mutilization fun as well)

  • IchmenIchmen Winnipeg, MBPosts: 1,228Member

    ps2 would only be a sandbox if they did away with classes completely, and required you to build each part of the moble units (not just the modules) as well if they included actual player/group conquest zones where you can build stuff (bases ect) and had each part indepent of everything (like repopulation is doing) then it would be more of a fps sandbox  until then its always going to be a FPS capture the flag progression game.

    other wise you may as well say counter strike is a sandbox :/ 

     

    if a game wants to be a sandbox it can not include a class system, as well as allow players to explore and build anything anywhere they want with enough time to do so.  which neither game really seems to have from what i have seen.

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  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,256Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ichmen

    if a game wants to be a sandbox it can not include a class system, as well as allow players to explore and build anything anywhere they want with enough time to do so.  which neither game really seems to have from what i have seen.

    Elder Scrolls.

    image

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,277Member Uncommon

    PS2 will be adding more sandbpx features, like outfit owned bases.The first sandbox mmofps? Maybe, but It is not a mmoRPG. 

     

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,277Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by winter

    Aventurine is a great Indie company lead by supersmart devs like Tasos who work long hard hours with no pay just to bring players a amazing game and are mocked for thier brilliance. Thus Darkfall unholy wars is a sandbox.

    Planetside 2 is run by SOE a money grubbing greedy company that is the devil. Thus it is a themepark!

    /sarcasm off

    Neither are sandboxes but then ask people what sand is and you will get many different answers.

       So we should stick to what we know....

    Planetside 2 is a f2P released game that is playable. (is it fun? Opinions differ)

    Darkfall Unholy wars is a Pay beta subscription game that has now missed multiple release dates and been forced back to a very buggy beta state thats barely off the ground with most players unable to even log in . (is it Fun? Opinions differ but I think its safe to point out some people find cutting themselves and self mutilization fun as well)

    image you almost had me...

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Honestly, both seem like Open World MMO PvP arenas, than Sandbox.

    But how can you or anybody name one of them a Sandbox without naming the other a sandbox as well?

    Darkfall has no sand at all. Just lots of base control, just like Planetside 2 has.

     

    People don't understand what the term sandbox means, and that is how it gets confused with games that don't fall into the themepark mold.

  • kalrhaelkalrhael Boston, MAPosts: 87Member

    I would definitely consider PS2 to be a sandbox, it's one niche of the sandbox, which is regional conquest, it doesn't have ALL the elements that a sandbox could potentially have but it has its focus on one of them, therefore I would consider it a sandbox game.

    I don't think a sandbox game needs to have ALL the potential features that a sandbox could have, since a sandbox's nature is already so vast and large, that line will be VERY arbitrarily placed based on personal perference.

    They did away with the cert system didn't they? I haven't played it yet, but that would definitely take it a little step further away, but the brunt of the game is still regional conquest - which is a sandbox feature that cannot be denied.

    It is a sandbox.
     

  • tollboothtollbooth grants pass, ORPosts: 298Member
    Do you people not understand the literal meaning behind the term "Sandbox"?  In a sanbox in the actual world you can build whatever you want using shovels/buckets or whatever.  That term is used to describe games where the world is built by the players instead of the dev's.  DF and PS2 are not even close to being sandboxes.  They are both just pvp arenas.
  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Amory, MSPosts: 2,544Member Uncommon

    To keep it short, I think a sandbox is an MMORPG with highly customizable character development with more than one aspect of play.

    There's so many different things you could do in a game like EVE, SWG, or UO and not all of them involved fighting.  You could play a single character and not once fight a single mob let alone another player.

    In Darkfall, everything you do feeds into the PvP machine same as Planetside 2.  

    Darkfall is more of a sandbox than Planetside 2 thanks to character cutomization, but for it to be a true sandbox, I'd like to see more viable styles of play that don't involve PKing.

  • kalrhaelkalrhael Boston, MAPosts: 87Member
    Originally posted by tollbooth
    Do you people not understand the literal meaning behind the term "Sandbox"?  In a sanbox in the actual world you can build whatever you want using shovels/buckets or whatever.  That term is used to describe games where the world is built by the players instead of the dev's.  DF and PS2 are not even close to being sandboxes.  They are both just pvp arenas.

    You're pigeon holing the sandbox into a crafting-based game. The sandbox is MUCH bigger than that one facet.

    And PS2's world IS built by the players, it's built through conquest, which has tangible results that can effect the entire course of the battles.

    Like I said, just because some games specialize on certain parts of the sandbox, doesn't make them any less of a sandbox.

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon

    Ultima Online, Wurm, SWG, EvE are sandboxes.

     

     

    Darkfall, Mortal Online are Ganking Simulators an attempt to get all the antisocial gamers in one place as a social experiment.

     

     

    Planetside 2, Firefall are an attempt to cash in on the MMO part by adding it to FPS and charging players for extra stuff to make them feel like a speecial snowflake.

     

     

    If you need more fantastically insightful definitions of what games truly are don't hesitate to ask I'm always willing to spread the knowledge. image

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kalrhael
    You're pigeon holing the sandbox into a crafting-based game. The sandbox is MUCH bigger than that one facet.

    And PS2's world IS built by the players, it's built through conquest, which has tangible results that can effect the entire course of the battles.

    Like I said, just because some games specialize on certain parts of the sandbox, doesn't make them any less of a sandbox.

    Lol. Everything you "conquer" in PS2 will be captured back overnight. It's totally inconsequential in the long run. You nation will not grow stronger or weaker. The only thing changing is your exp and cert amounts, which you can turn into better gear.

    You cannot even lose anything in PS2.

    If PS2 is a sandbox then WoW is too, because there are open world PvP areas which you can "build through conquest".

     

    Shit, anything passes for a sandbox these days. I can see that most players have never, ever played a proper sandbox game in their lives. UO, EVE - start with those and maybe you will see the light.

     

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    Darkfall has a lot of sandbox elements.. but is it a pure sandbox probally not..

    City building, house ownership, non restricted character development, player run econamy, open non intanced world.

     

     

    PS2 has no sandbox elements really.. well not yet they are planning on adding some in at some point so we will have to wait and see..

  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,705Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Honestly, both seem like Open World MMO PvP arenas, than Sandbox.

    But how can you or anybody name one of them a Sandbox without naming the other a sandbox as well?

    Darkfall has no sand at all. Just lots of base control, just like Planetside 2 has.

    Apple and Oranges

    PS2 is a Multiplayer Arena...........basically Battlefield with a huge map and more players.

    You kill the Red players with a bunch of Blue players, conquer a hold and lose it 2 minutes later, rinse and repeat.

    Darkfall although is not 100% sandbox it has politics and meaningful territory control, you control a territory until someone is able to kick you out, and while you are in control you get the benefits that comes with it, you control rare resources, and collect taxes from residents.

    In order to be able to control a territory you need to forge alliances, hire mercenaries and have a good spy network.

    In DF you can be a Warrior, a Spy, a Mercenary, a Crafter, a Trader, a Leader and a Forumfall Warrior, that's Sandbox enough IMO.........in PS2 you are just a Warrior that kills X to get Y

    Listen to me, before comparing the 2 games........go and play DF, best MMO in the last 5 years.
  • tollboothtollbooth grants pass, ORPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by kalrhael
    Originally posted by tollbooth
    Do you people not understand the literal meaning behind the term "Sandbox"?  In a sanbox in the actual world you can build whatever you want using shovels/buckets or whatever.  That term is used to describe games where the world is built by the players instead of the dev's.  DF and PS2 are not even close to being sandboxes.  They are both just pvp arenas.

    You're pigeon holing the sandbox into a crafting-based game. The sandbox is MUCH bigger than that one facet.

    And PS2's world IS built by the players, it's built through conquest, which has tangible results that can effect the entire course of the battles.

    Like I said, just because some games specialize on certain parts of the sandbox, doesn't make them any less of a sandbox.

    I'm not pidgeon holing anything.  Sandbox games are games with player generated content.  The players make the world by not just crafting, but by being the drving force behind the life/story of the game.  In PS2 you don't even get to choose who your enemies are.

     

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,762Member Uncommon

    PS2 ia a MMO FPS, thats what SoE is calling it. A better term would be FPS MMO, this is all about shooting people. :)

    It does have an open world, even if it is one divided into 3 sections and there is progression. But B3 has progression and smaller sections, thats not a MMO is it. PS2 is a hybrid, not a MMO and not a FPS game and it is good to see such games, gaming is better of the more diverse it is.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Planetside 2 is a rvr game, which is a subset of themeparks.

    Themepark doesn't just mean "oh god another wow clone"
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    No Scot planetside is 100% a mmo

    It's not a mmorpg though.
  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,919Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Planetside 2 is a rvr game, which is a subset of themeparks.
     

     

    Interesting comment.  I'd never looked at it that way, but I'd tend to agree.  RVR does seem to be a themepark characteristic.

     


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  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,778Member Uncommon

    i wont comment about DF because ive never played it so i dont know much about it, and im not interested in DF in the slightest. However, i dont see Planetside 2 as a sandbox. Its only an mmofps with big maps. In Planetside you cant build outposts, craft vehicles and weapons, destroy enemy posts, among many other features included in sandbox games. Only the huge maps for anyone to go nuts killing and taking posts. That only doesnt make a sandbox to me.

    I see Planetside 2 as the baby of Battlefield 3 and Halo who was left in a basket at the MMOFPS (MMO Foster Parent Society) doorstep

     

    EDIT: PS2 is a lot of fun, i love it, but its not a sandbox IMO

    image
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,998Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ichmen

    ps2 would only be a sandbox if they did away with classes completely, and required you to build each part of the moble units (not just the modules) as well if they included actual player/group conquest zones where you can build stuff (bases ect) and had each part indepent of everything (like repopulation is doing) then it would be more of a fps sandbox  until then its always going to be a FPS capture the flag progression game.

    other wise you may as well say counter strike is a sandbox :/ 

     

    if a game wants to be a sandbox it can not include a class system, as well as allow players to explore and build anything anywhere they want with enough time to do so.  which neither game really seems to have from what i have seen.

    Your defintion appears to be overly narrow IMO, as it would seem that neither EVE nor SWG Pre-CU would qualify as being sandboxes, yet they clearly are (or were).

    The mistake most are making here is trying to define sandbox style game play by requiring them to contain specific features.  Someone made the case that since PS2 has territory conquest, it must be a sandbox.  Not true, DAOC had territory conquest and factions (another PS2 trait) and for most people it was more theme park than sandbox in design.

    Xyson is a game that follows more of your definition of a sandbox, there's really nothing in there but a naked world and the players, everything is made by the players, but that doesn't make EVE any less of a sandbox, even though it's not nearly as "hardcore" as Xyson in its sandbox game mechanics.

    Sandbox to me is more about how much freedom a player has to interact and influence the overall gameplay experience (not the actual game world itself).   Can they pursue a career in crafting and never pick up a weapon, probably more of a sandbox than a game where one must level their combat skills in order to reach a specific crafting level.

    Territory control is important, but only if players can take territory, develop it, and hold it against all comers for a significant period of time (see EVE) but then you find gray areas like Lineage 2 where players held castles for periods of time but many debate how much of a sandbox it really is.

    At the end of the day, all I can say is I know when I'm in a sandbox style game and when I'm not.  Never tried either of the titles that OP contained, so can't really be sure either way at this point, so I didn't vote.


     

     

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