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To all those who play F2P with no intention of paying.

EnerzealEnerzeal WarringtonPosts: 326Member

I am rather shocked at how the market has developed in this day and age. Now developers create free to play games, they put in place gimics to get you to spend your money. Items you buy for a chance to get a nice item, increased exp rates, equipment that beats out what can be found in game, they lock away content, they seal up the game until you pay money.

People quote often that atleast 90% of people who play free to play games avoid spending any cash on them. This is to you 90% who complain about pay to win, who moan about how long it takes to achieve what someone purchasing from the shop can acheve.

You made this happen.

In a subscription game, 100% of the people pay $15 / £9 a month. Everything is open, nothing is pay to win.

In a play for free game, a better rate of income is achieved inside the 10% of people who play, than that of a subscription game. To compare, this is like 9 people playing WoW for free, and the tenth guy paying 10 times as much, plus some on the top because as we know, play for free is more profitable.

So when that tenth guy come along with his great gear, his fast leveling, and his lovely cosmetic items, do not complain that he paid to win, he paid to win because the developers offered those items, they offered those items - because they need to properly monetize their game.

I play Planetside 2, in the past month I have spent about £40 on it. Roughly on par with a purchased game box and a subscription. i won't be needing to spend this much in the future, I have what I need now and I am pleased with it. People complain that certification gains are to slow, they they can't farm up enough to buy guns with cert points. Now cert gain is fine if you buy the guns off the market with station cash and use your cert points to upgrade the guns and your selected classes.

You see what so many free to play people forget is that though the game might be free to log in, the developers never intended you to free ride your way through the game, they didn't intend for you to have your cake and eat it, to let the crazy 10% support your free loading.

heres a novel thought, spend a bit on the market every now and then and developers might not need to implement pay to win options, gear, exp increases and random chance loot bags.

 

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Comments

  • SirFubarSirFubar SeoulPosts: 397Member
    Originally posted by Enerzeal

    I am rather shocked at how the market has developed in this day and age. Now developers create free to play games, they put in place gimics to get you to spend your money. Items you buy for a chance to get a nice item, increased exp rates, equipment that beats out what can be found in game, they lock away content, they seal up the game until you pay money.

    Sorry but no, most F2P games aren't like this anymore. We're not at the beginning of the F2P transition where most F2P games were still P2W with locked content and where you absolutely needed to pay money in those games. We are wayyyy ahead of that.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    That is some backward logic! What has created all these Pay 2 Win games is because devs have realised that some people will pay, and some pay alot, to get an advantage over others.

    What you are saying makes no sense. Is it irony?

  • FluxiiFluxii cocoa, FLPosts: 184Member

    It's generation DUH's new mentality.

    We want it NOW!

    We want it NOW and EASY!

    We want it NOW and EASY and FREE!

    It's an entitlement progression that just keeps getting worse.  Occupy Wallstreet anyone?

  • dreadlordnafdreadlordnaf Washington, DCPosts: 65Member
    Originally posted by Yamota

    That is some backward logic! What has created all these Pay 2 Win games is because devs have realised that some people will pay, and some pay alot, to get an advantage over others.

    What you are saying makes no sense. Is it irony?

    Or we can reverse that.  They have realized many people either can't pay because they can't afford it, or are too damn cheap to pay.  So if a monthly subscription is the only option many people will never even try it.  So they need to focus on the few who actually will pay.

    I have played 4 different f2p games at a time before, paying only here and there for some item unlock or paying the monthly fee only when I knew I would play a lof that month.  I would definitely not play 4 monthly subscription games at a time though like WoW.  So f2p gives you more flexibility also.  

  • kaungstkaungst Gotham City, NYPosts: 28Member

    I for one completely agree with you. The games I play have  F2P option but i chose to pay monthly sub. For seeral reasons, 1 it helps further development and longjevity if the game. 2 I get my DLC powers and whatever cosmeticly appealing items I was wanting, 

    Lets face it, if they make no money then the lifespan of the game is limmited at best. F2P is killing the industry.

    The next time you cry because you can't get the gear or game mode or whatever you want because you didnt pay a sub or make a micro-transaction, Just be thankful that they allow you to mooch of the generosity of the game company. I for one wish that F2P never came to be. I pay my subs and am happy to do so!  

     

    R.I.P.  City of Heroes 

    We miss our adventures through the streets of paragon City

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Boring, TXPosts: 1,172Member Uncommon

    Lets use vindictus as a perspective as it's the game I currently know the rates of USD->CScurrency, USD-> Gold, and GOLD->CScurrency.

    Currently the rates are:

    13.00/14.00USD = 100m gold

    60m Gold = 10000nx

    10.00USD = 10000nx

     

    By those standards would you not agree that the Gold Sellers are offering better rates than Both Nexon and Players selling NX, by at least 14%. Something to note about Vindictus, you are able to purchase everything with gold.

     

  • furidiamfuridiam lincoln, ILPosts: 137Member Common

    I play FTP games and do not pay a dime. I also play sub games with multiple accounts. I play the sub games 95% of the time.

    It is the devs fault for not making there game good enough for me to pay a sub to it.

    If a dev wants to milk me dry by putting in micro transactions, then I will pay nothing and get something free and give my money to the company that has a quality product.

  • DisdenaDisdena Troy, NYPosts: 1,093Member

    This is indeed backwards logic.

    I play F2P games occasionally. I never pay anything for them (with one exception) but I also don't complain about them. If playing the game for free is not fun, I stop playing.

    If someone plays an F2P game for free and complains that it is Pay To Win, I would encourage them to do what I do: uninstall. Don't gripe about it, don't insist on the forums that they change it, don't run to the window and bellow the developers' flaws to the world. Just leave, without a grudge.

    You're suggesting that someone in that situation should not only continue to play the game, but should begin paying for it, with the intention of changing the entire paradigm of how game companies charge for their services. Uh uh, nope. There are too many games out there to bother with this tactic. If the game you're playing doesn't have the type of fiscal model that you like, go find one that does. There will ALWAYS be Play To Win games, because there will ALWAYS be players who want to pay for power. Why think that you can undo that? Why even try?

    image
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,783Member Uncommon

    The problem isn't when people who pay $15/month have big advantages over people who pay $0/month.  A free trial is called a "trial" for a reason.  Or at least it used to be, before marketing gurus figured out that calling a free trial "free to play" brought in more customers.

    The problem is when people who actually pay quite a bit still have huge disadvantages as compared to people who pay even more.  When paying $50/month isn't enough to make you competitive, that's pay to win in the worst sense of it.

  • GruugGruug Chillicothe, ILPosts: 1,311Member Uncommon

    I won't pay a sub nor will I pay for items in the item shop if the game says it is FREE to play. Why, because I am not going to pay for those freeloaders to play on my dime. If they want to play a game....PAY FOR IT YOURSELF!

     

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • kaungstkaungst Gotham City, NYPosts: 28Member

    It's true that there are two sides to this argument. I respect the views of the other. But I also have my view,

    For those not welthy enough to pay a sub, I am sorry but please dont complain when they guys that pay a sub get something you do not. You are playing for FREE! and without the income the game will NOT thrive. Why would a company sink money into development if the have no gain!?!

  • kaungstkaungst Gotham City, NYPosts: 28Member
    Originally posted by Gruug

    I won't pay a sub nor will I pay for items in the item shop if the game says it is FREE to play. Why, because I am not going to pay for those freeloaders to play on my dime. If they want to play a game....PAY FOR IT YOURSELF!

     

    I can repsect that lol

    But this only proves the point! I really dont want a F2P option on the games I play. For this reason.  I'm sure Gruug is a quality player. But we will never see because he is gonna have crappy gear lol

  • YizleYizle Atlanta, GAPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by Yamota

    That is some backward logic! What has created all these Pay 2 Win games is because devs have realised that some people will pay, and some pay alot, to get an advantage over others.

    What you are saying makes no sense. Is it irony?

    This is about right.

    Any decent F2P does not add P2W. I do not mind games that add pay to level/gear up faster as long as it is also available in game.

    And before the OP in his delerium starts to call us all free loaders. I have 2 active sub games.

  • RhygarthRhygarth cannockPosts: 56Member Uncommon
    Seriously i hate f2p, give me a good subscription game anyday but it will have to be "good" most new mmo's are about geting cash out the player as fast as they can with any means possible... so just give me a subscription game with no micro transactions....
  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member

    F2P causes nothing but drama in games. I hope this payment model dies quickly.

    Free 2 Play games is a misnomer, most are pay2win, including planetside 2.

  • ZyzraZyzra Madison, WIPosts: 354Member
    Originally posted by Gruug

    I won't pay a sub nor will I pay for items in the item shop if the game says it is FREE to play. Why, because I am not going to pay for those freeloaders to play on my dime. If they want to play a game....PAY FOR IT YOURSELF!

     

    It's you.

    You're the freeloader.

  • TalgenTalgen Reading, PAPosts: 400Member
    Originally posted by Fluxii

    It's generation DUH's new mentality.

    We want it NOW!

    We want it NOW and EASY!

    We want it NOW and EASY and FREE!

    It's an entitlement progression that just keeps getting worse.  Occupy Wallstreet anyone?

    This.

  • dreadlordnafdreadlordnaf Washington, DCPosts: 65Member
    Originally posted by kaungst
    Originally posted by Gruug

    I won't pay a sub nor will I pay for items in the item shop if the game says it is FREE to play. Why, because I am not going to pay for those freeloaders to play on my dime. If they want to play a game....PAY FOR IT YOURSELF!

     

    I can repsect that lol

    But this only proves the point! I really dont want a F2P option on the games I play. For this reason.  I'm sure Gruug is a quality player. But we will never see because he is gonna have crappy gear lol

    Ah but you forget the upside.  Many f2p players will do literally anything to avoid paying real money.  This is great in games with crafting that require lots of mining/resource gathering for high level gear.  Seriously I can buy some lame cash-shop item that costs maybe $5 dollars of real money and some free player who "refuses to pay for f2p games on principle" will literally trade me the equivlant of 20 hours of farmed materials for that.   So basically he won't pay for games he likes, but he is cool working for 25 cents an hour mindlessly farming... Haha, fine with me, that means I don't have to.

  • furidiamfuridiam lincoln, ILPosts: 137Member Common


    Originally posted by Zyzra
    Originally posted by Gruug I won't pay a sub nor will I pay for items in the item shop if the game says it is FREE to play. Why, because I am not going to pay for those freeloaders to play on my dime. If they want to play a game....PAY FOR IT YOURSELF!  
    It's you.

    You're the freeloader.


    No he is not a free loader......do not market your game as free if you do not want people to play it for FREE lol

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    Actually... no, people who play and don't pay a dime for a game which isn't worthy paying for did nothing to made pay 2 win models go so strong (even tho they're dieing now). Those 10% you're speaking of, they made it happen... Because alot of people would pay alot of money for some virtual advantage over others because they have to be better than anyone else, read it as the "snowflake disorder" or whatever you like, but that's the real reason behind p2w.

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

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  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Enerzeal

    heres a novel thought, spend a bit on the market every now and then and developers might not need to implement pay to win options, gear, exp increases and random chance loot bags.

     

    I don't think it works like that.

     

    One description is that there are three categories of players:

    No-Pays - People who aren't paying and never will, regardless of their reason.

    Bargain Shoppers - People who buy occasionally based on need or an exceptional discount.

    Whales - People who are more than willing to spend, and often do in large amounts.

     

    Whales are, for at least some games, the major revenue stream for the business model.  In these games, the dev / publisher goes out of their way to keep the whales happy with all sorts of offerings to improve their gameplay experience.

     

    If I decide to spend $25 on a F2P, I don't think that's going to change the position that those publishers go all out to keep the whales happy.

     

    BTW: I myself fall into the bargain shopper category.  I'm no whale, but I do love a good deal when I see it.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    F2P causes nothing but drama in games. I hope this payment model dies quickly.

    Free 2 Play games is a misnomer, most are pay2win, including planetside 2.

    You probably are not going to get your wish any time soon. F2P has grown from 39% to 50% revenue market share in the MMO market. By 2013, it will have more market share than p2p.

    And whatever you call it .. you pay nothing to play some part of the game.

    So what if it is p2w ... it is only fair those who subsidize the free riders should get a bit more.

  • dreadlordnafdreadlordnaf Washington, DCPosts: 65Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    F2P causes nothing but drama in games. I hope this payment model dies quickly.

    Free 2 Play games is a misnomer, most are pay2win, including planetside 2.

     

    Reality will trump your hope.  Can you name any other business which only has a one-size-fits all pricing model?  Nope, they are all scaled by preference.  You pay more for a better cell phone plan than the ones that costs less, you pay more for a better cable package, you pay more for better seats at the ball game, etc, etc, etc etc.....

    A flat one-size-fits-all subscription model is the one that is dieing.

  • theAsnatheAsna AsnatownPosts: 321Member
    I don't like the f2p rage in recent years.
     
    • I don't want to pay for all those freeloaders.
    • I don't like what gets offered in cash shops. I only tolerate permanently or temporarily unlocking content, unlocking races and unlocking classes. The rest (e.g. cosmetic items, pets, equipment, etc.) should be exclusively available in-game (either by crafting, trading or playing the game).
       
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Enerzeal

    heres a novel thought, spend a bit on the market every now and then and developers might not need to implement pay to win options, gear, exp increases and random chance loot bags.

     

    It is novel indeed. Why should i care if devs implement p2w, gear exp increases and random loot bags?

    If a game is fun for me, and i don't have to buy any of that stuff ... let the whales have those stuff.

     

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