Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Taking legal action against The Secret World

banzai014banzai014 WellingtonPosts: 27Member

As some of you may be aware, Funcom's The Secret World today shifted from a subscription only model to B2P (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/12/the-secret-world-officially-abolishes-subscriptions/). This was a completely unannounced and sudden change: the only warning given was a "prank" youtube video (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/10/the-secret-worlds-dev-video-blog-begins-end-of-days-chronicle/).

This leaves players with existing subscription time and lifetime subscribers in the lurch. In this new model, players that purchase the box price have full access to the game in its current state. Players can then subscribe for $15/month for 1200 Funcom points ($10 in real money) that expire after 6 months needed to buy future DLC (slated to be released in monthly installments costing $5-10),  a fluff vanity item of the month, an xp booster item and a 10% discount on the item shop. Existing subscribers are being switched to this plan for the remainder of their subscription time, without a refund option. Remember that these subscribers also had to buy the game box in the beginning.

This is not what subscribers paid for.  The deal they signed up for has been changed without their consent or prior knowledge. The terms of agreement have been pulled out from under them. Subscribers paid for access to updates ("DLC") but also access to the game itself. In the P2P model you simply could not log in if you were'nt subscribed. Now that you can get full access for free, the value of the subscription has been cheapened.

The services subscribers get with the B2P model are worthless. $15 per month for $10 worth in limited time points, whereas a B2P player can buy DLC each month for cheaper ($5) and have exactly the same access to the game. $15 (sub per month) > $10 (in virtual Funcom monies) > $5 per month for DLC you need to keep up with other players.

I feel that the subscription option is only there so that they don't have to refund people with existing subs and of course lifetimers. The sub has no value and is a ripoff. A sub gave players both access to new content and to the game itself. Since everyone has access to the game now for the box price, the sub has lost part of its value and so people with existing sub time should demand a refund. I would really like to know what a lawyer's legal opinion of this change would be.

I have contacted Massively and MMORPG.com suggesting they write an article investigating the legal implications of TSW's B2P change or otherwise recommend me a lawyer specializing in this area that I could talk to. I hope this way we can get something started moving forward and clarify exactly  what legal recourse existing subscribers have. My demands are fair: I only ask that players get the option of having their extant subscription time refunded, since the subscription service has so wholly changed from what they originally intended to pay for (i.e. which in large part was paying for access to the game itself).

«13456716

Comments

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • TjedTjed Baltimore, MDPosts: 162Member
    Probably not going to get anywhere.  There is usually some tricky wording in the terms that players check a box and agree to every time they log in. 
  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

    this.  read the fine print.

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • wormedwormed Calgary, ABPosts: 374Member
    People seem to think contracts protect companies from doing completely illegal and ridiculous shit.
  • banzai014banzai014 WellingtonPosts: 27Member
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

    The EULA means nothing in Europe

  • xeniarxeniar Posts: 805Member Uncommon

    You knew very well before lifetiming that in these times MMO's have a tendency of failing, meaning they might close down entirly or have to change how they do things.

    Yes the small letters in the terms of service wil give all rights to do so to the company.

    You knew it could happen yet you still lifetimed. don't come crying now.

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Originally posted by banzai014
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

    The EULA means nothing in Europe

    So there are no Terms and Conditions for players in Europe?  How can you plan an MMO without agreeing to terms and conditions?

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,564Member Uncommon

    Maybe they can work a class action lawsuit into their next arg event... Im pretty sure funcom is within their rights to do this. Its in their toc specifically.

  • TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon
    See, it is for this very reason that lifetime subs are worthless.

    image
  • TjedTjed Baltimore, MDPosts: 162Member
    Originally posted by banzai014
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

    The EULA means nothing in Europe

    This is interesting.  Any reading material that you could link?

  • banzai014banzai014 WellingtonPosts: 27Member
    Originally posted by xeniar

    You knew it could happen yet you still lifetimed. don't come crying now.

    I'm not talking about just lifetimers. I'm talking about people with remaining subscription time, who might have signed up for a three-monthly payment plan - they deserve a refund option.

  • snapfusionsnapfusion San, CAPosts: 954Member

    From what I have read, lifetime subs and people with remaining time on their subs are being well compensated.  Have you not looked into this?  Most of the lifetime sub posts Ive seen are from people very happy with what they will be receiving every month. 

    Your legal action will go nowhere, the EULA is written with stuff like this in mind and you have already agreed to its terms by playing the game.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

    they get thrown out in every court every time, TOS or EULA means nothing in almost all cases

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon

    Sigh.  Please go read the FAQ (carefully!) on how things are changing for subs and lifetimers.  I think you will see that both are making out very well with the transition, even better than where things were yesterday.  It's actually a better deal than the old GM pack.

    http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=62789

  • ph3n0m73ph3n0m73 norwichPosts: 46Member
    ahh so glad this was one that i didnt buy..knew it was more trouble than its worth....anyhow feel bad for you subbers to be let down like this.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,761Member Uncommon
    Never mind the fine print.  Subscribers paid to get access to the game, right?  And they still have access to the game, don't they?  If Funcom is blocking subscribers out of the game during their paid subscription time and demanding that they pay even more, then you might have a case.  But giving non-subscribers more than you expected?  Nope, that doesn't merit legal action.
  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by Teala
    See, it is for this very reason that lifetime subs are worthless.

    They MADE it worthless by giving away almost everything for free which I paid 200$ for.

     

    Today I´m fed up with MMOs, look around, all cash grabs, no exceptions.

    BUT in case of TSW they threw pearls in front of the swine by giving away everything with the B2P model.

    The last bastion beside EvE, TSW finally catered to the cheapskates. Thanks for nothing. Now the 30$ lolkids will try to do investigation quests and fill up the chat with ""lollzthisgamesucks""whatis goin on lolzzz"

     

    sad day for a great game and unique community

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
    .


    .
    The Return of ELITE !
    image

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ph3n0m73
    ahh so glad this was one that i didnt buy..knew it was more trouble than its worth....anyhow feel bad for you subbers to be let down like this.

    Not a let down at all -- it's an excellent deal for me (as a sub) and for lifetimers.  OP doesn't understand the change.

    http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=62789

  • banzai014banzai014 WellingtonPosts: 27Member
    Originally posted by Ortwig

    Sigh.  Please go read the FAQ (carefully!) on how things are changing for subs and lifetimers.  I think you will see that both are making out very well with the transition, even better than where things were yesterday.  It's actually a better deal than the old GM pack.

    http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=62789

    It doesn't matter. It might be a deal, but it's not the deal I signed up for: and 1200 points is still $10, less than $15 a month.

    The right thing to do is refund our remaining time and if we want to sub for your "better deal" we will.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,290Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by banzai014

    As some of you may be aware, Funcom's The Secret World today shifted from a subscription only model to B2P (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/12/the-secret-world-officially-abolishes-subscriptions/). This was a completely unannounced and sudden change: the only warning given was a "prank" youtube video (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/10/the-secret-worlds-dev-video-blog-begins-end-of-days-chronicle/).

    This leaves players with existing subscription time and lifetime subscribers in the lurch. In this new model, players that purchase the box price have full access to the game in its current state. Players can then subscribe for $15/month for 1200 Funcom points ($10 in real money) that expire after 6 months needed to buy future DLC (slated to be released in monthly installments costing $5-10),  a fluff vanity item of the month, an xp booster item and a 10% discount on the item shop. Existing subscribers are being switched to this plan for the remainder of their subscription time, without a refund option. Remember that these subscribers also had to buy the game box in the beginning.

    This is not what subscribers paid for.  The deal they signed up for has been changed without their consent or prior knowledge. The terms of agreement have been pulled out from under them. Subscribers paid for access to updates ("DLC") but also access to the game itself. In the P2P model you simply could not log in if you were'nt subscribed. Now that you can get full access for free, the value of the subscription has been cheapened.

    The services subscribers get with the B2P model are worthless. $15 per month for $10 worth in limited time points, whereas a B2P player can buy DLC each month for cheaper ($5) and have exactly the same access to the game. $15 (sub per month) > $10 (in virtual Funcom monies) > $5 per month for DLC you need to keep up with other players.

    I feel that the subscription option is only there so that they don't have to refund people with existing subs and of course lifetimers. The sub has no value and is a ripoff. A sub gave players both access to new content and to the game itself. Since everyone has access to the game now for the box price, the sub has lost part of its value and so people with existing sub time should demand a refund. I would really like to know what a lawyer's legal opinion of this change would be.

    I have contacted Massively and MMORPG.com suggesting they write an article investigating the legal implications of TSW's B2P change or otherwise recommend me a lawyer specializing in this area that I could talk to. I hope this way we can get something started moving forward and clarify exactly  what legal recourse existing subscribers have. My demands are fair: I only ask that players get the option of having their extant subscription time refunded, since the subscription service has so wholly changed from what they originally intended to pay for (i.e. which in large part was paying for access to the game itself).

    So before the change, subscribers did not get any discouts on item shop, and had to pay for the expansions/dlc as well.

    Now subscribers get a discount, get 1200 points to pay for dlc, xp booster and a fluff item.  Yes people doing the other option may still get a better deal but the subscribers are getting more than they do before.

    edit - and there was talk about f2p even near the beginning.  One of the devs in an interview stated they do have plans for f2p should they need to do that.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Isn't this why mobile providers let former users get "grandfathered in", because if they change the payment contract when someone has a contract, they get sued?
  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by Teala
    See, it is for this very reason that lifetime subs are worthless.

    They MADE it worthless by giving away almost everything for free which I paid 200$ for.

     

    Today I´m fed up with MMOs, look around, all cash grabs, no exceptions.

    And the last bastion beside EvE, TSW catered to the cheapskates. Thanks for nothing. Now the 30$ lolkids will try to do investigation quests and fill up the chat with ""lollzthisgamesucks""whatis goin on lolzzz"

     

    sad day

    Please go read the FAQ.  It's the best B2P model I've seen.

  • TalonsinTalonsin Posts: 1,466Member Uncommon

    Again, I think legal action is a bit over the top.  I just want my bonus points to NOT expire and the 20% discount to include DLC and if i got those, I would be fricken estatic.

     

    For new players, this new model rocks!

  • SynthetickSynthetick Portland, ORPosts: 977Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Isn't this why mobile providers let former users get "grandfathered in", because if they change the terms of service when someone has a contract, they get sued?

    Try READING the terms of services, jesus.

    Of course a mobile provider has a completely different terms of service than an multiplayer online video game where within that industry the pay models are constantly shifting.

    Apples and grapefruit.

    image

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ortwig
    Originally posted by ph3n0m73
    ahh so glad this was one that i didnt buy..knew it was more trouble than its worth....anyhow feel bad for you subbers to be let down like this.

    Not a let down at all -- it's an excellent deal for me (as a sub) and for lifetimers.  OP doesn't understand the change.

    http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=62789

    How exactly is it a better deal than previously?

     

    As I understand before they had to pay for NOTHING, now they will have to potentially pay for DLC.

    image


    image

«13456716
This discussion has been closed.