This also definitely is not the first title to offer lifetime subscriptions and then switch their model. Not to mention, this setup is more beneficial to the former lifetimers than many other titles that made a similar jump.
Honestly, how can you threaten legal actions when you agree to legally binding document(s) as soon as you hop on their services. It's just redundant, there's no ground to stand on, and in this industry if you didn't see it coming, well, you were basically ASKING for it. Seriously.
Originally posted by ph3n0m73 ahh so glad this was one that i didnt buy..knew it was more trouble than its worth....anyhow feel bad for you subbers to be let down like this.
Not a let down at all -- it's an excellent deal for me (as a sub) and for lifetimers. OP doesn't understand the change.
As I understand before they had to pay for NOTHING, now they will have to potentially pay for DLC.
Well, financially they weren't cutting it. You could of stayed as a subscription based game and eventually had your doors closed. Or you can adapt, realize this is in everyone's best interest, and continue to play. Or not.
So before the change, subscribers did not get any discouts on item shop, and had to pay for the expansions/dlc as well.
Now subscribers get a discount, get 1200 points to pay for dlc, xp booster and a fluff item. Yes people doing the other option may still get a better deal but the subscribers are getting more than they do before.
edit - and there was talk about f2p even near the beginning. One of the devs in an interview stated they do have plans for f2p should they need to do that.
No the updates (Issues) were free and came with the sub. You could sub at a later date and get all pre-existing updates (which were you know updates integrated into the game world like in all real MMOs - WoW, EVE, not separate dlc) for no extra cost.
Sigh. Please go read the FAQ (carefully!) on how things are changing for subs and lifetimers. I think you will see that both are making out very well with the transition, even better than where things were yesterday. It's actually a better deal than the old GM pack.
It doesn't matter. It might be a deal, but it's not the deal I signed up for: and 1200 points is still $10, less than $15 a month.
The right thing to do is refund our remaining time and if we want to sub for your "better deal" we will.
You're actually getting more from your lifetime, and you're unhappy simply because it changed? Okay.... I can understand people not liking change, but that's a bit crazy. "Here's an extra $10 per month. No! -- that wasn't our agreement! I'm suing!"
So before the change, subscribers did not get any discouts on item shop, and had to pay for the expansions/dlc as well.
Now subscribers get a discount, get 1200 points to pay for dlc, xp booster and a fluff item. Yes people doing the other option may still get a better deal but the subscribers are getting more than they do before.
edit - and there was talk about f2p even near the beginning. One of the devs in an interview stated they do have plans for f2p should they need to do that.
No the updates (Issues) were free and came with the sub. You could sub at a later date and get all pre-existing updates (which were you know updates to the game like in all real MMOs - WoW, EVE, not separate dlc) for no extra cost.
So things change. Did you hear about the Darkfall launch date getting delayed a day or so before launch? Let's sue. There must be a case because things changed, obviously.
Originally posted by ph3n0m73 ahh so glad this was one that i didnt buy..knew it was more trouble than its worth....anyhow feel bad for you subbers to be let down like this.
Not a let down at all -- it's an excellent deal for me (as a sub) and for lifetimers. OP doesn't understand the change.
As I understand before they had to pay for NOTHING, now they will have to potentially pay for DLC.
Well, financially they weren't cutting it. You could of stayed as a subscription based game and eventually had your doors closed. Or you can adapt, realize this is in everyone's best interest, and continue to play. Or not.
I'm not complaining about the transition, just refuting what he is stating or at least trying to understand it.
You know what they ought to do? Give subscribers like the original poster the option to keep the original terms. That is, you lose access to the game when your subscrpition expires, you don't get the bonus points to spend in the store, etc. And then see how many of them are dumb enough to take it. And then complain that they were tricked into taking a worse deal.
Originally posted by CalmOceans Isn't this why mobile providers let former users get "grandfathered in", because if they change the terms of service when someone has a contract, they get sued?
Try READING the terms of services, jesus.
TOS is not legally binding, again, EULA and the TOS are not law, they can be ignored or enforced by a counrt at will.
Stop thinking EULA are legally binding contracts, they are not.
Many counrts have completely ingored EULA and thrown them out, especially because EULA are often not viewable before purchases of the item in retail stores.
If you change the contract or payment model on someone, the court decides who was wrong and who wasn't, not the EULA.
Originally posted by ph3n0m73 ahh so glad this was one that i didnt buy..knew it was more trouble than its worth....anyhow feel bad for you subbers to be let down like this.
Not a let down at all -- it's an excellent deal for me (as a sub) and for lifetimers. OP doesn't understand the change.
Originally posted by ph3n0m73 ahh so glad this was one that i didnt buy..knew it was more trouble than its worth....anyhow feel bad for you subbers to be let down like this.
Not a let down at all -- it's an excellent deal for me (as a sub) and for lifetimers. OP doesn't understand the change.
As I understand before they had to pay for NOTHING, now they will have to potentially pay for DLC.
Well, financially they weren't cutting it. You could of stayed as a subscription based game and eventually had your doors closed. Or you can adapt, realize this is in everyone's best interest, and continue to play. Or not.
I'm not complaining about the transition, just refuting what he is stating or at least trying to understand it.
I honestly wasn't trolling. I was answering the question, "how is this better than before."
Maybe I answered under a different context, but..
Before, you were on the path of the game's doors closing. Now, they're changing the way they monetize their title to offer continue support and to keep it operating, and to break even.
Any decision made to extend the length of the title at this point is a good move. That's where I see it better off. There's more of a future now than before.
So before the change, subscribers did not get any discouts on item shop, and had to pay for the expansions/dlc as well.
Now subscribers get a discount, get 1200 points to pay for dlc, xp booster and a fluff item. Yes people doing the other option may still get a better deal but the subscribers are getting more than they do before.
edit - and there was talk about f2p even near the beginning. One of the devs in an interview stated they do have plans for f2p should they need to do that.
No the updates (Issues) were free and came with the sub. You could sub at a later date and get all pre-existing updates (which were you know updates integrated into the game world like in all real MMOs - WoW, EVE, not separate dlc) for no extra cost.
So your saying there were never any plans to have expansions?
Updates were free. I imagine many updates will likely still be free. But I never expected a significant amount of content to be added for free.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
If your try this you WILL spend more money in court then the cost of the LTF Sub. and you will LOSE because when you read the TOS you will see you have no ground what so ever.
So how about this, Instead of bitching moaning and complaining you give it a month to see if there is ACTUALLY something to complain about. Your still getting things FREE yes more than the subs. Also if you calculate how long it will take to equalize loss to gain from buying the LTS, you will realize you are almost back to 0. not to mention your still gaining things.
so take a month or 2 and see if your little rage thread was a waste or not.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Originally posted by ph3n0m73ahh so glad this was one that i didnt buy..knew it was more trouble than its worth....anyhow feel bad for you subbers to be let down like this.
As I understand before they had to pay for NOTHING, now they will have to potentially pay for DLC.
nope FC is giving the the points(free) to pay for any DLC coming if they want too or they could just spend the points on other cash shop stuff. They are losing nothing, but their minds, it seems
Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny. Lao-Tze
Originally posted by Roxtarr Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.
The EULA means nothing in Europe
This is interesting. Any reading material that you could link?
I don't think subs were cheapened, so I'm just a curious bystander in this thread, but this statement is not entirely true. (Although I don't have the link).
If I remember correctly, the Eu Court decision only states that no parts of an EULA can oppose the Eu law, so it doesn't matter how corky are the lawyers who writes them, we can easily click Accept and we won't have to take part in Apple's human centiPad for example. South Park rocks
(in common language, the legal version would be much longer)
LTS players gambled and lost. Nobody owes them anything. What if Funcom had shut down TSW? What are you "owed" then?
You put your quarter in the slot, hit the button, and lost. Does the casino owe you your quarters back?
You gambled that TSW would have a long subscription based life. The longer they charged sub fees, the more you "won." With games lately, I think that was kind of silly. Nobody owes you anything.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by ph3n0m73 ahh so glad this was one that i didnt buy..knew it was more trouble than its worth....anyhow feel bad for you subbers to be let down like this.
Not a let down at all -- it's an excellent deal for me (as a sub) and for lifetimers. OP doesn't understand the change.
As I understand before they had to pay for NOTHING, now they will have to potentially pay for DLC.
The free points every month will be more than enough to cover a $5 DLC.
We don't know the price or how often they will be. As well as if you want to use some of that for other items in the cs. I don't think this is as clear cut, besides you were essentially getting 15 dollars a month before now it's 10 with some other ingame stuff that I'm not sure how much they amount to.
Originally posted by CalmOceans Isn't this why mobile providers let former users get "grandfathered in", because if they change the terms of service when someone has a contract, they get sued?
Try READING the terms of services, jesus.
TOS is not legally binding, again, EULA and the TOS are not law, they can be ignored or enforced by a counrt at will.
Stop thinking EULA are legally binding contracts, they are not.
Many counrts have completely ingored EULA and thrown them out, especially because EULA are often not viewable before purchases of the item in retail stores.
Enough said. Go read up a bit on the suit. And if you do, you'll be able to find many similar cases. Trust me, they hold up. It's not just in video games, it's with most services. I was a call center manager at EPIQ Systems where we handled nothing but class actions lawsuits. Guess how many of them were in regards to TOS, and how many were completely overturned.
Please stop creating multiple threads intending to incite others. You are providing false information regarding FUNCOM. They did not violate any agreement with users. Their terms of service do not entitle you to any say in their business model. Nothing in the agreements state that they have to give you advance notice of any changes. Even the lifetime subscription is just an agreement to allow you access to the game server for the life of the game.
I understand you are upset, and you are entitled to feel that way. However, at this point you are intentionally commiting libel(defamation) against FUNCOM by stating false information in an effort to damage the image and value of a corporation. Please stop.
No they didnt LOSE anything. they will still gain things in the game even if they dont play. its not like your suddenly forced to pay a subscription now your gains to loss will equal out given time. Thus your LOST nothing.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
If your try this you WILL spend more money in court then the cost of the LTF Sub. and you will LOSE because when you read the TOS you will see you have no ground what so ever.
So how about this, Instead of bitching moaning and complaining you give it a month to see if there is ACTUALLY something to complain about. Your still getting things FREE yes more than the subs. Also if you calculate how long it will take to equalize loss to gain from buying the LTS, you will realize you are almost back to 0. not to mention your still gaining things.
so take a month or 2 and see if your little rage thread was a waste or not.
He just doesn't understand the change. Basically subs and lifetimers will be getting the content updates for free. DLC will be easily purchaseable with the free points given every month.
Originally posted by ph3n0m73ahh so glad this was one that i didnt buy..knew it was more trouble than its worth....anyhow feel bad for you subbers to be let down like this.
As I understand before they had to pay for NOTHING, now they will have to potentially pay for DLC.
nope FC is giving the the points(free) to pay for any DLC coming if they want too or they could just spend the points on other cash shop stuff. They are losing nothing, but their minds, it seems
Yes, but remember that you used to get points to spend on the cs before and had no dlc to buy. Now you have to buy the dlc so the content is not part of the deal.
Like I said, sometimes they are enforced, when the judge believes the terms of service were valid, in many cases they are not.
One example does not mean this happens in every case, in many cases the TOS is ignored, more often than not because the TOS is only presented AFTEr the product was bought.
If the TOS said that your life belongs to Blizzard in Blizzard's TOS, you would call that legally binding? Do you understand the difference between TOS and written law?
A TOS is made up by some lawyers of a company, it can say anyhting. Law goes through congress and gets voted on. It's not the same thing, they have different meanings in court.
Comments
This also definitely is not the first title to offer lifetime subscriptions and then switch their model. Not to mention, this setup is more beneficial to the former lifetimers than many other titles that made a similar jump.
Honestly, how can you threaten legal actions when you agree to legally binding document(s) as soon as you hop on their services. It's just redundant, there's no ground to stand on, and in this industry if you didn't see it coming, well, you were basically ASKING for it. Seriously.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Well, financially they weren't cutting it. You could of stayed as a subscription based game and eventually had your doors closed. Or you can adapt, realize this is in everyone's best interest, and continue to play. Or not.
No the updates (Issues) were free and came with the sub. You could sub at a later date and get all pre-existing updates (which were you know updates integrated into the game world like in all real MMOs - WoW, EVE, not separate dlc) for no extra cost.
You're actually getting more from your lifetime, and you're unhappy simply because it changed? Okay.... I can understand people not liking change, but that's a bit crazy. "Here's an extra $10 per month. No! -- that wasn't our agreement! I'm suing!"
So things change. Did you hear about the Darkfall launch date getting delayed a day or so before launch? Let's sue. There must be a case because things changed, obviously.
I'm not complaining about the transition, just refuting what he is stating or at least trying to understand it.
TOS is not legally binding, again, EULA and the TOS are not law, they can be ignored or enforced by a counrt at will.
Stop thinking EULA are legally binding contracts, they are not.
Many counrts have completely ingored EULA and thrown them out, especially because EULA are often not viewable before purchases of the item in retail stores.
If you change the contract or payment model on someone, the court decides who was wrong and who wasn't, not the EULA.
The free points every month will be more than enough to cover a $5 DLC.
I honestly wasn't trolling. I was answering the question, "how is this better than before."
Maybe I answered under a different context, but..
Before, you were on the path of the game's doors closing. Now, they're changing the way they monetize their title to offer continue support and to keep it operating, and to break even.
Any decision made to extend the length of the title at this point is a good move. That's where I see it better off. There's more of a future now than before.
So your saying there were never any plans to have expansions?
Updates were free. I imagine many updates will likely still be free. But I never expected a significant amount of content to be added for free.
HAHAHAHA, oh thats too funy... wait your serious.
If your try this you WILL spend more money in court then the cost of the LTF Sub. and you will LOSE because when you read the TOS you will see you have no ground what so ever.
So how about this, Instead of bitching moaning and complaining you give it a month to see if there is ACTUALLY something to complain about. Your still getting things FREE yes more than the subs. Also if you calculate how long it will take to equalize loss to gain from buying the LTS, you will realize you are almost back to 0. not to mention your still gaining things.
so take a month or 2 and see if your little rage thread was a waste or not.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
I don't think subs were cheapened, so I'm just a curious bystander in this thread, but this statement is not entirely true. (Although I don't have the link).
If I remember correctly, the Eu Court decision only states that no parts of an EULA can oppose the Eu law, so it doesn't matter how corky are the lawyers who writes them, we can easily click Accept and we won't have to take part in Apple's human centiPad for example. South Park rocks
(in common language, the legal version would be much longer)
LTS players gambled and lost. Nobody owes them anything. What if Funcom had shut down TSW? What are you "owed" then?
You put your quarter in the slot, hit the button, and lost. Does the casino owe you your quarters back?
You gambled that TSW would have a long subscription based life. The longer they charged sub fees, the more you "won." With games lately, I think that was kind of silly. Nobody owes you anything.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
We don't know the price or how often they will be. As well as if you want to use some of that for other items in the cs. I don't think this is as clear cut, besides you were essentially getting 15 dollars a month before now it's 10 with some other ingame stuff that I'm not sure how much they amount to.
You are completely wrong.
In 2011, George Hotz and others were sued by Sony Corporation. Sony claimed that by violating the Terms of Service of the PlayStation Network, Hotz & others were committing breach of contract.
Enough said. Go read up a bit on the suit. And if you do, you'll be able to find many similar cases. Trust me, they hold up. It's not just in video games, it's with most services. I was a call center manager at EPIQ Systems where we handled nothing but class actions lawsuits. Guess how many of them were in regards to TOS, and how many were completely overturned.
Anyways, moving on.
OP,
Please stop creating multiple threads intending to incite others. You are providing false information regarding FUNCOM. They did not violate any agreement with users. Their terms of service do not entitle you to any say in their business model. Nothing in the agreements state that they have to give you advance notice of any changes. Even the lifetime subscription is just an agreement to allow you access to the game server for the life of the game.
I understand you are upset, and you are entitled to feel that way. However, at this point you are intentionally commiting libel(defamation) against FUNCOM by stating false information in an effort to damage the image and value of a corporation. Please stop.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
He just doesn't understand the change. Basically subs and lifetimers will be getting the content updates for free. DLC will be easily purchaseable with the free points given every month.
Actually there are several examples of the EULA being upheld by courts.
Simply stating EULA's are not binging is not accurate, as some have been.
It's all in what they say.
Here's just one example from a 1 second search.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/09/the-end-of-used-major-ruling-upholds-tough-software-licenses/
(no it's not MMO bu the issue was about EULA)
Yes, but remember that you used to get points to spend on the cs before and had no dlc to buy. Now you have to buy the dlc so the content is not part of the deal.
Like I said, sometimes they are enforced, when the judge believes the terms of service were valid, in many cases they are not.
One example does not mean this happens in every case, in many cases the TOS is ignored, more often than not because the TOS is only presented AFTEr the product was bought.
If the TOS said that your life belongs to Blizzard in Blizzard's TOS, you would call that legally binding? Do you understand the difference between TOS and written law?
A TOS is made up by some lawyers of a company, it can say anyhting. Law goes through congress and gets voted on. It's not the same thing, they have different meanings in court.